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Max Wilco posted:That's true, but Mass Effect 3's ending (as I've heard it described) came across as it being rushed out the door, and not offering any real closure or wrap-up on the story and what happened based on your choices. the story from people who worked at bioware at the time is that the two lead writers locked themselves in a room overnight and wrote the ending by themselves in that one night with exactly zero input from anyone else on the writing team. which, given how bad the rest of the writing in that game is, i dunno how much better the ending would have been had they not done that. but it does give some insight to the fact that the people in charge didn't know what the gently caress they were doing. i think almost the entire team from mass effect 1 and 2 were gone by the time 3 dropped and good loving god it showed.
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Nov 4, 2018 07:04
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I honestly think they just wrote themselves into a corner with how powerful the reapers were.
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Nov 4, 2018 07:10
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Roth posted:I honestly think they just wrote themselves into a corner with how powerful the reapers were. The original, slightly more sensible ending, the one that they’d been building up to across ME1 and ME2, got leaked while 3 was in development so the two head writers locked themselves in an office without any input from the rest of the writing staff and hammered out the new ending in the course of a weekend. The original ending was that the mass effect itself was degrading the fabric of the universe itself and hastening heat death at an exponential rate, so the original civilization who discovered this created the Reapers as a universal stop gap to wipe out any civilization that learned how to utilize the mass effect in order to forestall the end of the universe. So the MORAL CHOICE wrapped up in that is do you accept the death of your civilization for the sake of the universe, or do you say gently caress off, we deserve to live even though we’re killing everything with how we’re living and fight back against the Reapers, or maybe find a third way that somehow involves uprooting everything galactic civilization is based on. It might have worked, but it needed writers more talented than BioWare’s crew to pull it off, that’s for sure.
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Nov 4, 2018 07:22
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Hence the cut scene of the mass relays getting blown up that was already in the game before retooling the ending to one where having that as the prominent image doesn't make nearly as much sense.
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Nov 4, 2018 07:28
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:i think almost the entire team from mass effect 1 and 2 were gone by the time 3 dropped and good loving god it showed. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 07:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:Hence the cut scene of the mass relays getting blown up that was already in the game before retooling the ending to one where having that as the prominent image doesn't make nearly as much sense. The mass relays exploding is such a widespread galactic genocide that there might not be anything left of the galaxy to save for the future. Only systems that didn't have mass relays would be spared and considering how the relay network going haywire could be seen from beyond the galaxy itself, even that is doubtful. Between Mass Effect and Dead Space, EA really liked to release games that fumbled the ending to their "ancient aliens who are also zombie makers controlling evolution as part of a harvest for reasons" games. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 07:35
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Bit late, but there's a whole Laser Time podcast ep dedicated solely to one of the hosts venting about how insufferable Moriarty is to work with after another round of twitter drama.
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Nov 4, 2018 07:42
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Mass effect 3 had way more problems than just the ending like the whole game aside from Tuchanka being written like poo poo
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Nov 4, 2018 07:48
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Andrast posted:Mass effect 3 had way more problems than just the ending there was the one other exception to the bad writing, that being javik. man he deserved such a better fuckin game 
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Nov 4, 2018 08:13
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Arcsquad12 posted:Between Mass Effect and Dead Space, EA really liked to release games that fumbled the ending to their "ancient aliens who are also zombie makers controlling evolution as part of a harvest for reasons" games.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:36
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Motto posted:Bit late, but there's a whole Laser Time podcast ep dedicated solely to one of the hosts venting about how insufferable Moriarty is to work with after another round of twitter drama. i would love to hear this if you have a link handy
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Nov 4, 2018 08:43
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Another problem ME3 had to deal with is a kind of "narrative debt". You can make a game feel interesting by adding big central plot mysteries and a choice system but eventually you need to provide answers to the plot questions and effects for the choice system. The Witcher series was smart (or responsible) by making each game mostly self-contained with respect to the main plot questions and the effects of your choices. In the Mass Effect series they kept putting things off until the last game. You then had a situation where no one knew how to answer the questions or implement effects and the game had to work for new players while still paying off the debt accrued by the previous two. It doesn't help that by ME2 as much as I liked collecting a team of weirdos for a
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Nov 4, 2018 08:45
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Terrible Opinions posted:Dead Space had a perfect ending. They killed off all human life in a cutscene made by sliding copy/pasted concept art around on a skybox. I cannot imagine a better way to say gently caress you with the writing of a game. Either gently caress you to their publishers or to their fans, but either way it was a definitive artistic statement, whereas ME3 was just a wet fart. Reminds me of an underappreciated little gently caress you in Mass Effect 3. After playing with whether they'd reveal Tali's face in the series, they go ahead and do it by whiting out the eyes on a stock image of a generic white lady. It was kind of funny to laugh at that little section of the fanbase freaking out about their waifu, but it's still an incredible bit of everyone just being done with the game.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:57
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Microcline posted:Another problem ME3 had to deal with is a kind of "narrative debt". You can make a game feel interesting by adding big central plot mysteries and a choice system but eventually you need to provide answers to the plot questions and effects for the choice system. The Witcher series was smart (or responsible) by making each game mostly self-contained with respect to the main plot questions and the effects of your choices. In the Mass Effect series they kept putting things off until the last game. You then had a situation where no one knew how to answer the questions or implement effects and the game had to work for new players while still paying off the debt accrued by the previous two. That's pretty much exactly why the entire playerbase told them to change the ending. It wasn't being petty or whatever, it was because Bioware did not deliver on anything they set up and people were pretty justifiably upset about it. And if you've got that many people telling you to change it when a playerbase has never done that for any other major game, maybe there's something to their criticisms.  Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Reminds me of an underappreciated little gently caress you in Mass Effect 3. After playing with whether they'd reveal Tali's face in the series, they go ahead and do it by whiting out the eyes on a stock image of a generic white lady. It was kind of funny to laugh at that little section of the fanbase freaking out about their waifu, but it's still an incredible bit of everyone just being done with the game. Yeah, that was just lazy as all hell. I don't know how they thought that one was going to go over well, given her general popularity. Or that the internet wouldn't track down the source photo and know exactly what they'd done within five minutes.
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Nov 4, 2018 09:02
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me2 is a great example of hopw plot actually doesn't need to matter that much if the writing and atmosphere are still good. the loyalty missions were great and the characters you recruit were awesome and omega was a really rad place that i'd play an entire game based in. well, not all that stuff was great i guess. miranda suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked, but my point still stands.
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Nov 4, 2018 09:21
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Terrible Opinions posted:Dead Space had a perfect ending. They killed off all human life in a cutscene made by sliding copy/pasted concept art around on a skybox. I cannot imagine a better way to say gently caress you with the writing of a game. Either gently caress you to their publishers or to their fans, but either way it was a definitive artistic statement, whereas ME3 was just a wet fart. Not just that, but they did it in paid DLC. You had to give EA another $10 for privilege of getting an ending even shittier than the one Dead Space 3 itself closed out on. It probably was a giant gently caress you to EA from Visceral for what they did to their studio and their franchise with their meddling to DS3. Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Reminds me of an underappreciated little gently caress you in Mass Effect 3. After playing with whether they'd reveal Tali's face in the series, they go ahead and do it by whiting out the eyes on a stock image of a generic white lady. It was kind of funny to laugh at that little section of the fanbase freaking out about their waifu, but it's still an incredible bit of everyone just being done with the game. Oh, it's even better than that. In the official artbook for the series, she has actual designed facial artwork. They settled on a canon design and they went with stock photo model for... reasons?
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Nov 4, 2018 09:31
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:me2 is a great example of hopw plot actually doesn't need to matter that much if the writing and atmosphere are still good. the loyalty missions were great and the characters you recruit were awesome and omega was a really rad place that i'd play an entire game based in. I stand by the old criticism that Bioware obviously didn't have any understanding of what people liked about Mass Effect, since they never pumped out Mass Effect: Citadel Cop to cash the easiest check ever. Any time they go for big world ending monsters or plots the stories go to hell.
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Nov 4, 2018 09:36
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nine-gear crow posted:Not just that, but they did it in paid DLC. You had to give EA another $10 for privilege of getting an ending even shittier than the one Dead Space 3 itself closed out on. It probably was a giant gently caress you to EA from Visceral for what they did to their studio and their franchise with their meddling to DS3.
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Nov 4, 2018 09:37
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You're entitled to the clothes you buy being the size they claim to be. Nobody's entitled to clothes that fit, specifically. especially Boogie
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Nov 4, 2018 10:01
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Remember when that private company called Patreon made changes to their system to deduct fees from user payments and everyone had a giant tantrum like that company was entitled to give a poo poo about them? Wish them luck with whatever company union I heard them talking about, if it’s full of these same corporate cheerleaders I’m sure Patreon is shaking in its boots.
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Nov 4, 2018 12:51
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I am not entitled because I pay for the game what video games still want 60 bucks for a new release gently caress that I'm gonna wait for a steam sale/goty edition 
Leal fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 13:09
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One of the things that annoyed me about ME3 was how some things got retconned from the previous game because they wanted to keep some enemy types around (and the writers were lazy). In ME1 you make peace with the last Rachni queen and they go off into space somewhere. ME3; evil bugs are back again. In ME2 it turns out that Not All Geth. Only a small exclave faction of the Geth are reaper aligned and you realign them in a loyalty mission. In a big gently caress you to the player, they are all evil robots again in ME3, and then Tali kills herself. RIP I replayed ME2 in the last year or so and I noticed that every single loyalty mission is about daddy issues. The squadmate in question either got daddy issues or is the daddy to someone with daddy issues.
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Nov 4, 2018 13:24
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Wooper posted:In ME2 it turns out that Not All Geth. Only a small exclave faction of the Geth are reaper aligned and you realign them in a loyalty mission. In a big gently caress you to the player, they are all evil robots again in ME3, and then Tali kills herself. RIP That's all your own fault, you made bad choices on Rannoch.
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Nov 4, 2018 13:32
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Neddy Seagoon posted:That's all your own fault, you made bad choices on Rannoch. Yeah if you do it "well" the game turns the Geth into a garbage Pinocchio story
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Nov 4, 2018 13:36
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Just got around to watching the new Contrapoints. Good as always. And funny.
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Nov 4, 2018 13:46
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ME3 was a special brand of garbage since a month before release the game director talked how the ending wouldn't be a "push-button ending" then it comes out and that's exactly what the ending was, on top of it not making a lick of sense. But like others have said, that game is a garbage fire before and after Tuchanka.
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Nov 4, 2018 15:08
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Mass Effect plots went to poo poo with 2, nobody noticed because the loyalty missions were good.
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Nov 4, 2018 15:44
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The idea of 'entitlement' is one to debate but invoking it over people saying 'yo this idea sounds dumb' is the dumbest way to. Blizz hyped this up as their big finale announcement and it was a giant 'IT'S A PHONE GAME' wet fart, people reacted by going 'lol this is stupid', then a bunch of game journalists started screaming in agony as their precious source of access was lightly made fun of. Game journalism is a giant farce that still, as it's a million dollar industry, not decided if it's a hobby focused medium designed around community building and communication or if it's real reporting. Like, the NYT or Al Jazeera doesn't try to 'make a community' they just report poo poo, but all these game journalist sites seem to want everyone to be friends with their subjects and then get surprised when people say 'we don't want to be friends with this company actually'.
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Nov 4, 2018 16:28
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sexpig by night posted:Game journalism is a giant farce that still, as it's a million dollar industry, not decided if it's a hobby focused medium designed around community building and communication or if it's real reporting. Like, the NYT or Al Jazeera doesn't try to 'make a community' they just report poo poo, but all these game journalist sites seem to want everyone to be friends with their subjects and then get surprised when people say 'we don't want to be friends with this company actually'. Seeing this after months of NYT articles going into Trump Country to profile the voters there is kind of hilarious.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:16
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Dean of Swing posted:Remember when that private company called Patreon made changes to their system to deduct fees from user payments and everyone had a giant tantrum like that company was entitled to give a poo poo about them? Wish them luck with whatever company union I heard them talking about, if it’s full of these same corporate cheerleaders I’m sure Patreon is shaking in its boots. I thought Patreon didn't go through with the fee deduction plan after people voiced their issues with it. Did it still happen anyway? Spark That Bled posted:Seeing this after months of NYT articles going into Trump Country to profile the voters there is kind of hilarious. 
Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 17:21
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https://twitter.com/zei_nabq/status/1053099936487825408 To keep in mind when you talk about news outlets, outside of the gaming sphere.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:22
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Spark That Bled posted:Seeing this after months of NYT articles going into Trump Country to profile the voters there is kind of hilarious. I mean yea they're trash but it's not like they're making forums where they have the best case scenario as their readers being able to chat with trump chuds in real time or whatever. They're bad journalists but at least they do seem to understand they're journalists.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:22
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saying 'they're worse than the NYT at handling journalistic integrity' is more meant to be an insult on them rather than praise for the NYT, sorry if that got lost 
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Nov 4, 2018 17:24
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Imagine being stuck between a bunch of middle aged men with the collective emotional maturity of a toddler and the giant exploitative corporations that make their toys.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:32
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FoldableHuman posted:Imagine being stuck between a bunch of middle aged men with the collective emotional maturity of a toddler and the giant exploitative corporations that make their toys. The journalists are often the same middle aged men with emotional maturity of a toddler too
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Nov 4, 2018 17:37
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Most people have the emotional maturity of a toddler really. It just manifests in different ways.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:41
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FoldableHuman posted:Imagine being stuck between a bunch of middle aged men with the collective emotional maturity of a toddler and the giant exploitative corporations that make their toys. Don't know where this random insult at Cine D came from :/
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Nov 4, 2018 17:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:Most people have the emotional maturity of a toddler really. It just manifests in different ways. Can't really argue with that. Mine manifests in shitposting and participating in really dumb arguments on SA.
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Nov 4, 2018 17:43
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Max Wilco posted:I thought Patreon didn't go through with the fee deduction plan after people voiced their issues with it. Did it still happen anyway? these people suck, these neoliberal corporate shills using left wing progressive language to defend a company that clearly hosed up in a stupid way and they are trying to turn it into a partisan issue. its not "well some people are over reacting to a lovely PR move" its "the entitled gamers have once again shown their toxic masculinty and are attacking a progressive company that is making a cellphone game for women". if your only encounter with leftism is some dipshit misappropriating progressive language to play corpo defender. this isn't some company or some indie dev getting attacked by chuds over inclusiveness and such. this is a Dumb PR gently caress up that should be laughed at and hope the company learn from it. but instead of treating it as such, a bunch of journos instead do this pretentious "look how liberal and smart I am, how dare you laugh or get mad at a giant company for dumb thing, your all evil chuds" type poo poo. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 17:44
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Andrast posted:Can't really argue with that. I mean same
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Nov 4, 2018 17:49
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