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Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

those were hand rendered bitmapped italics they were using

that's not how i remember it. almost all irix fonts were adobe type 1 or the other thing that only solaris and irix used

they look like bitmap fonts because nobody worried about "antialiasing" back then

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eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

judging from the screenshot, he's got an r5k o2

they also said “not mine, but” when posting the screen shot, I assumed that meant “not my SGI” rather than just “just like mine but not specially it”

quote:

yeah windowmaker copied the next look and feel, but wasn't really integrated with gnustep

worse, someone from FSF said “sure” when it’s author asked “can WindowMaker be the official GNUstep window manager?” so after that the connection between the two was indelible

quote:

the thing tankakern linked to is an actual gnustep desktop environment, just, decades too late for most people to notice

yeah, I was happy to see someone finally got everything together that I considered starting a company to do in 1999-99

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
selinux is peak linux

this is an arcane and pointlessly stupid devourer of my time so surely it has to be doing something useful right?

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Sapozhnik posted:

selinux is peak linux

this is an arcane and pointlessly stupid devourer of my time so surely it has to be doing something useful right?

selinux is good and cool and learned the important lessons from trusted solaris and trusted hpux

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

that's not how i remember it. almost all irix fonts were adobe type 1 or the other thing that only solaris and irix used

they look like bitmap fonts because nobody worried about "antialiasing" back then

no, both ATM and TrueType would use prerendered bitmaps if they were available, so some “important” fonts would also ship with hand tuned bitmaps for common sizes

the “hero” font for a UI—like Helvetica 12 Bold-Oblique for IRIX, or Chicago for Macintosh—is exactly why that capability exists

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

no, both ATM and TrueType would use prerendered bitmaps if they were available, so some “important” fonts would also ship with hand tuned bitmaps for common sizes

the “hero” font for a UI—like Helvetica 12 Bold-Oblique for IRIX, or Chicago for Macintosh—is exactly why that capability exists

oh yeah

even windows did this, so i guess i should not be surprised that proprietary unix managed it.

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

eschaton posted:

you should get it up and running

what model do you have

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

judging from the screenshot, he's got an r5k o2

It wasn't a screenshot from my machine as I said, but yeah an r5k. It's a bit slow, but it was the only O2 I could get my hands on, and mostly that's how you can legally get a copy of IRIX anyway (other than harddisks). I've had it for 9 years now and it still works. I just don't run it all the time.

I fire it up every few years to check its scsi disks, and of course the battery is long gone, but the RTC chip is still okayish, so there's always a couple of boots and it panics occasionally with the ram (i have a lot of spares, noone wants that old 128m ECC ram). It also needs a new cdrom drive.

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009



Notorious b.s.d. posted:

selinux is good and cool and learned the important lessons from trusted solaris and trusted hpux

it is also arcane and pointlessly stupid. the tooling and documentation are laughably bad. it works perfectly well if you make the huge and far-more-than-should-be-necessary effort to grok its weirdness. so yeah it's pretty fuckin linux

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
2018 is the year of NetHack on Linux on the carpet



thanks to Luigi30, she inspired me to figure out how to set up a getty on /dev/ttyUSB0 on my GPD Pocket

I need one of those RS-232 to WiFi boards to just plug into the back of the VT520, then I could terminal anywhere

r u ready to WALK
Sep 29, 2001

why limit yourself to crummy text games when your terminal supports sick sixel graphics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SasrQ7pnbA

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






r u ready to WALK posted:

why limit yourself to crummy text games when your terminal supports sick sixel graphics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SasrQ7pnbA

sneksel

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

it is also arcane and pointlessly stupid. the tooling and documentation are laughably bad. it works perfectly well if you make the huge and far-more-than-should-be-necessary effort to grok its weirdness. so yeah it's pretty fuckin linux

it's way better than the systems that preceded it

if you think selinux is arcane and poorly documented, try configuring capability-based permissions on solaris

it starts with a book as thick as the yellow pages, and a java gui that takes several minutes to start. (not an exaggeration. minutes.)

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

yeah, I was happy to see someone finally got everything together that I considered starting a company to do in 1999-99

i don't know precisely how your career has gone, but i can just about guarantee that it has gone better than it would have if you had started "eazel, but for gnustep"

those were heady days

you probably dodged a bullet

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

ewe2 posted:

It wasn't a screenshot from my machine as I said, but yeah an r5k. It's a bit slow, but it was the only O2 I could get my hands on, and mostly that's how you can legally get a copy of IRIX anyway (other than harddisks). I've had it for 9 years now and it still works. I just don't run it all the time.

sgi doesn't exist anymore, but back when they did, they gave zero fucks about this

essentially if you owned an sgi machine, you had an entitlement to irix -m train releases. you only needed a support contract if you wanted the -f train.... or, for that matter, support

if you stumble across a copy of 6.5.22m or 6.5.30, use it guilt free. sgi was happy to give those away, two bankruptcies ago.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Sapozhnik posted:

selinux is peak linux

this is an arcane and pointlessly stupid devourer of my time so surely it has to be doing something useful right?

i agree. they should just use something like apple's t2 chip for security. i hear it has something called a "secure enclave" to protect me from viruses.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Idk the specifics of what apple thing you are mocking because I don't use apple stuff but a "secure enclave" is a fancy marketing term for an hsm. Which serves a useful purpose. Selinux does not.

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

if you stumble across a copy of 6.5.22m or 6.5.30, use it guilt free. sgi was happy to give those away, two bankruptcies ago.

I know that, but you need to reeducate the rest of the internet then. Go ahead, we'll wait :keke:

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
the main problem with irix isn’t finding the discs, it’s installation

you need thirteen discs to do a reasonable install of 6.5.22m. and you will use most of the discs more than once.

it’s extraordinarily unpleasant without an install server to do it via NFS

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
and now I have an HP 9000/332 workstation/controller on the way

the SCSI card is unfortunately difficult to come by, at least the LAN card isn’t

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009



Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it's way better than the systems that preceded it

if you think selinux is arcane and poorly documented, try configuring capability-based permissions on solaris

it starts with a book as thick as the yellow pages, and a java gui that takes several minutes to start. (not an exaggeration. minutes.)

"beats the poo poo out of solaris but still sucks" is very, very linux

Gun Metal Cray
Apr 27, 2005

Pillbug
soo are system 76 stuff anything worth buying?

pram
Jun 10, 2001
no

Gun Metal Cray
Apr 27, 2005

Pillbug
right

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

and now I have an HP 9000/332 workstation/controller on the way

the SCSI card is unfortunately difficult to come by, at least the LAN card isn’t

on a system that old, aren’t you expected to hook up disks via hp-ib?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the main problem with irix isn’t finding the discs, it’s installation

you need thirteen discs to do a reasonable install of 6.5.22m. and you will use most of the discs more than once.

it’s extraordinarily unpleasant without an install server to do it via NFS

requiring disk re-use is incredibly stupid

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

on a system that old, aren’t you expected to hook up disks via hp-ib?

it’s new enough that it’s boot ROM supports both HP-IB and SCSI and even booting from the network via RMP

it can also boot from a card with 256KB of EPROM, since it was also intended as an embedded controller

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Captain Foo posted:

requiring disk re-use is incredibly stupid

older irix releases are only one or two discs for the OS, and a disc or two for layered products.

6.5 was initially five, then nine, and just kept expanding. it became very clear you were really meant to have an nfs install server.

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
Apollo Domain/OS 10.4 comes on five QIC tapes

and then I guess another tape each for the 10.4.1 upgrade and the 10.4.1.2 patch set

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

6.5 was initially five, then nine, and just kept expanding. it became very clear you were really meant to have an nfs install server.

code:
docker pull dexter1/irix-install

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009




this is horrifying but i can't quite put my finger on why

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
it’s not so bad

I’m contemplating setting up NetBSD on a RPi to act as a plug-and-play net boot server for my Apollo and HP-9000/332

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:

this is horrifying but i can't quite put my finger on why

it's not horrifying

the things you have to do to a unix host to make it an irix install server are ... terrible.

ksh93 as /bin/sh
enable rsh and rcp access
allow tftp to the entire network share
enable nfs v2 w/ no authentication

it's just gross

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

eschaton posted:

it’s not so bad

I’m contemplating setting up NetBSD on a RPi to act as a plug-and-play net boot server for my Apollo and HP-9000/332

i would go with a VM or that docker image

hifi
Jul 25, 2012

i'll always laugh at korn shell

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it's not horrifying

the things you have to do to a unix host to make it an irix install server are ... terrible.

ksh93 as /bin/sh
enable rsh and rcp access
allow tftp to the entire network share
enable nfs v2 w/ no authentication

it's just gross

haha nice

recently i set up nfs v2, but with auth, to share a folder with an nfs driver for dos 6.22 :pcgaming:

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Tankakern posted:

haha nice

recently i set up nfs v2, but with auth, to share a folder with an nfs driver for dos 6.22 :pcgaming:

that's an extra stage of terrible since you have to enable pc-nfs extensions

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

that's an extra stage of terrible since you have to enable pc-nfs extensions

yep, i patched pcnfsd to work with glibc with an external libtircp, since that's not a part of glibc anymore :p

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts
dropbox told all rhel6 users to get hosed

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Quebec Bagnet
Apr 28, 2009

mess with the honk
you get the bonk
Lipstick Apathy

hifi posted:

i'll always laugh at korn shell

what would a KoЯn shell be like

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