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Klyith posted:It's $550 ($600 msrp). The price on newegg is because it's out of stock. Is anyone selling it for msrp though?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:46
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Anyways it seems silly to sink $500 into a high-end intel CPU right now. It's like buying one of the bad pentium 4s right before desktop Core. If they get their poo poo together, whatever their next generation CPU is will blow this thing out of the water, at least thermally. And if they can't get their poo poo together, there's always Zen 2. Arzachel posted:Is anyone selling it for msrp though? the people that ran out of stock I guess
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Nov 10, 2018 19:58
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it's at least 700€ in the EU right now, but it's not in stock at that price  Meanwhile the 8700K is still around 420€ (used to be 340€) and the 9700K is 500€.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:01
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Winks posted:At 1080p there's a gaming streaming use case, as it's phenomenal at maintaining frame rates while streaming with good quality, then there's competitive gaming where you're using 144/240 Hz monitors. Klyith posted:It's $550 ($600 msrp). The price on newegg is because it's out of stock. If you insist on going by the MSRP though for $550 its still a lousy value vs a 2700X. That is a 50%+ difference in price for 10-15% difference in performance. And you only get that performance by overclocking that i9 9900k yourself and buying the more expensive cooling on top of that to achieve it. If it was like $350 and actually came with a OK HSF like the 2700X it'd be a different story. PC LOAD LETTER fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 20:15
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Where I'm finding Zen 2 interesting is in the doubling of the floating point instruction pipelines. When I run fluid dynamics simulations it's all cpu bound and primarily floating point instructions. The difference between my old xeon workstation and my 1700 at home is a 60% increase in speed by doubling cores (even though ryzen is a bit slower in IPC and clock speed). I'm prepared to wait for something Zen 2 with at least 8 cores for my new workstation.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:17
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:Ehhhh its technically true a i9 9900k will do both of those tasks better than a 2700X but the difference will generally be too small to matter even at 1080p for most. A 10-15% performance advantage starts to really matter when you're doing something like a render that takes hours to complete. I just told you two situations at 1080p where it's not too small to matter. If you want to play, say, overwatch at 240 an 87/97/9900k will outperform the 2700x in a noticeable way, especially when it comes to things like framerate minimums and variance. Our tournament frame caps for overwatch on 8700ks were at the monitor refresh rate of 240 and didn't drop below that too much and never dipped below 200. My 9900k never drops below 240 at the same in game settings. The 2700x system compared to it at the same settings would regularly dip below 200. If we used those instead, we would have been forced to cap frames below monitor refresh rates. All of it was at stock because these were for tournament computers. When that '10-15%' can mean dropping 30+ more frames, it matters.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:52
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Winks posted:When that '10-15%' can mean dropping 30+ more frames, it matters. For the vast overwhelming majority of non-pro gamers, and lets face even lots of actual pro gamers, playing at ~240fps vs ~200fps+ will be at best a minor "quality of life" improvement due to diminishing returns of going over 144Hz vs running the same game at 1440p even if it means they "only" get ~90-120fps instead with the same hardware. And once you get to 1440p+ the CPU will matter far far less than the GPU for many games.
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Nov 10, 2018 22:39
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I'd even say that at 144hz, you're in the millisecond range that any framerates beyond that don't do anything other than feed someone's placebo.
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Nov 10, 2018 23:35
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Combat Pretzel posted:I'd even say that at 144hz, you're in the millisecond range that any framerates beyond that don't do anything other than feed someone's placebo. People were playing UT and Quake on 300hz CRTs back in the day, the difference is still noticeable even if it's nowhere close to the jump from 60 to 120hz. The value proposition for halo products has always been sketchy, the bigger issue is that you can't get it for anywhere close to the msrp (or at all if you're in Europe, it seems).
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Nov 11, 2018 00:40
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Didn't those ultra high frame rates have more to do with the games physics than speed?
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Nov 11, 2018 04:05
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No, you would be playing with a capped framerate and vsync off at sub minimum detail no matter what your config. Having a higher refresh rate reduces latency, and CRTs don't have any of the persistence issues that make it hard to properly drive LCDs to really high refresh rates. The actual visual benefits of refresh rate increases aren't linear, but probably exist up to around 1000hz anyway. K8.0 fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 04:10
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LRADIKAL posted:Didn't those ultra high frame rates have more to do with the games physics than speed? Some of the older games did some interesting stuff when the framerate was stupid high, I forgot which ones though.
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Nov 11, 2018 04:12
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Gamebryo and it's other incarnations for sure.
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Nov 11, 2018 04:20
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Also Quake stuff.
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Nov 11, 2018 04:28
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Quake 3 everyone capped frames at 125 as that let you jump the highest/furthest. Some weird rounding thing in the physics engine.
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Nov 11, 2018 05:13
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SwissArmyDruid posted:Some news from the other side of the wall: At a ~20% lower CPU-only TDP. So we're talking what... 30% lower task energy or 15% higher performance at the same wattage? Wow, Intel really hit a home run on efficiency here. Guess a big 8C on 14++++++ is paying off for them after all? Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 09:29
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Arzachel posted:Doesn't the 2700X also pull more than the advertised 105W with all the cores loaded/XFR? Yes, up to 152W according to TweakTown. Cygni posted:TDP hasn't meant anything on desktop for either side in years honestly Sadly it meant something up until last year... Piledriver and the 7700K respected their specs. The 1800X and then the 8700K violated their specs somewhat, and the 2700X and the 9900K just poo poo all over them. This is actually a recent problem. Seems like longer though.
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Nov 11, 2018 09:39
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Arzachel posted:People were playing UT and Quake on 300hz CRTs back in the day, the difference is still noticeable even if it's nowhere close to the jump from 60 to 120hz. Now you can certainly perceive some stuff up to 1000Hz but as far as practical gameplay differences go you're past the point of diminishing returns. But then the my original comments just up the page a lil' were "~200fps vs ~240fps isn't a big practical difference and is hard to spot" and NOT "are super high Hz/fps even perceivable?????" though I understand how its natural for the discussion to turn to the latter. And yeah primarily people would run games like Quake at high frame rates because the physics engine would bug (it was somehow tied to fps) and could give you a competitive advantage. There was talk even back then that it helped with perception vs 60/72/85fps/Hz but that wasn't why people generally did it.
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Nov 11, 2018 09:53
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com_max_fps = 125. 
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Nov 11, 2018 10:31
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:But then the my original comments just up the page a lil' were "~200fps vs ~240fps isn't a big practical difference and is hard to spot" and NOT "are super high Hz/fps even perceivable?????" though I understand how its natural for the discussion to turn to the latter. Combat Pretzel posted:I'd even say that at 144hz, you're in the millisecond range that any framerates beyond that don't do anything other than feed someone's placebo. I can see how a 9900k would find a niche for people who want to push a ton of frames and stream on the same PC, an extra 200$ over 2700X is still a whole lot less than building a dedicated render box. I just don't care about either of those things myself, which is why I'm waiting for Zen2 v  v
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Nov 11, 2018 10:35
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Devian666 posted:Where I'm finding Zen 2 interesting is in the doubling of the floating point instruction pipelines. When I run fluid dynamics simulations it's all cpu bound and primarily floating point instructions. The difference between my old xeon workstation and my 1700 at home is a 60% increase in speed by doubling cores (even though ryzen is a bit slower in IPC and clock speed). I'm prepared to wait for something Zen 2 with at least 8 cores for my new workstation.
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Nov 11, 2018 12:02
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Are the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen 2700/x decent enough on their own without needing an aftermarket solution, assuming I'm not overclocking right away?
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Nov 11, 2018 12:09
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exquisite tea posted:Are the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen 2700/x decent enough on their own without needing an aftermarket solution, assuming I'm not overclocking right away? Yeah, although like most stock coolers it will be a little louder and not cool as well as a decent third party cooler, but they wouldn't ship them without a capable cooler. I put a big Scythe Mugen 5 rev. B on my R7 1700 and it seems to be very good so far although I'm overclocking a little.
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Nov 11, 2018 12:42
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exquisite tea posted:Are the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen 2700/x decent enough on their own without needing an aftermarket solution, assuming I'm not overclocking right away? The Wraith Prism that comes with the 2700X is better than acceptable and is close enough to Actually Good Heatsinks to be put in the same chart as them without it being a big joke. The problem is that the low fan mode is reasonably quiet but also inadequate to the 2700X's thermal self-overclocking. In high mode it's super loud. But if I had a wraith prism I'd totally keep it around for later reuse whenever those parts get recycled, or use it while waiting on some other cooler. A person that isn't noise sensitive like me might be happy enough to not need a replacement. The wraith spire that comes with the non-X 2700 is a stock cooler and will be loud no matter what and you will want to replace.
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Nov 11, 2018 13:21
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??Arzachel posted:I can see how a 9900k would find a niche for people who want to push a ton of frames and stream on the same PC, an extra 200$ over 2700X is still a whole lot less than building a dedicated render box.
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Nov 11, 2018 13:35
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exquisite tea posted:Are the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen 2700/x decent enough on their own without needing an aftermarket solution, assuming I'm not overclocking right away? I ran the wraith spire briefly at stock (2700x) and it's by far the best stock cooler I've ever used. It's fine at stock. If you have decent case ventilation it'll boost ok, too.
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Nov 11, 2018 13:57
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Considering an ITX ryzen build. What are the best itx boards that have good enough power delivery for ryzen 3/4 or whatever the heck it is going to be called if I decide to upgrade.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:07
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Paul MaudDib posted:Sadly it meant something up until last year... Piledriver and the 7700K respected their specs. The 1800X and then the 8700K violated their specs somewhat, and the 2700X and the 9900K just poo poo all over them. This is actually a recent problem. I was thinkin mostly with "MCE" and "AI Tuner" and poo poo on all 4 of the major board companies coming turned on for both AMD and Intel (which is what a lot of that Anandtech article was about). Thats been going on for a long time. It's a relatively recent thing that they are allowing and even advertising blasting away the TDP when possible, and thats mostly on the AMD side on the consumer level (HEDT for both sides is a different story). Intel still technically has limits in place, just nobody actually cares about them. Cygni fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 18:48
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EmpyreanFlux posted:Rome wasn't built on one die.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:19
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mem posted:Quake 3 everyone capped frames at 125 as that let you jump the highest/furthest. Some weird rounding thing in the physics engine.  You got the best jumps with 333 FPS but we didn't have the hardware to push those framerates until after the heyday. It saw some use in the latter days of Wolfenstein: ET though!
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Nov 11, 2018 19:39
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ET was my jam in middle school / high school. But I played it on whatever lovely CPU/iGPU was in the Sony vaio I used at the time so I don't think I got much more than 30fps, if that
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Nov 12, 2018 02:40
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I, for one, appricate having a campfire nestled in my PC should I need an extra space heater.
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Nov 12, 2018 04:51
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Yudo posted:I, for one, appricate having a campfire nestled in my PC should I need an extra space heater. I dunno, Skylake-X is pretty bad value TBH.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:08
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EmpyreanFlux posted:I dunno, Skylake-X is pretty bad value TBH. What do you recommend for scrambling eggs? Can't find Pentium 4s anymore.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:57
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Pablo Bluth posted:Whats the Xeon configuration? With CFD you pretty quickly run in to being memory bound. So quad channel Threadripper should beat any Ryzen based solution, and Epyc will again be faster due to having eight memory channels. Given eight memory channels is ahead of Intel's offering of six, there's been a lot of interest in Eypc for HPC uses, unfortunately like-for-like benchmarks have been thin on the ground. It's an old xeon but for the models I'm running I'm not hitting any memory bound issues. I'm running FDS and the fire calculations end up very intense. In the past I'm only seen memory become a problem on a very large model at the start of the run but once the fans start in the model the cpus would always sit at 100%. Even NIST who wrote the software suggest only running as many threads as cpu cores because memory latency isn't an issue.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:10
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isndl posted:
more you were looking to run your quake 3 shitbox in the 200-300 average fps range anyway, so when poo poo hit the fan and rockets start exploding, you're still at 125 minimum.
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Nov 12, 2018 11:49
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isndl posted:What do you recommend for scrambling eggs? Can't find Pentium 4s anymore. If you want to scramble some eggs, I'd suggest a Vega 10 of some kind. Provided backplates should allow you to scramble your eggs conveniently while knowing that the rest of your system is safe and secure from spills, runs or mishaps.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:03
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Anandtech interviewed AMD CTO Mark Papermaster about Zen 2. Not much in the way of new information, most of the answers to open architectural questions are "wait until we launch," but still an interesting read. One thing that stood out to me is that the interviewer pointed out that with Naples AMD was pushing to replace 2S Xeon servers with 1S Epyc servers, and now with Rome you could replace 2S Epyc with 1S Epyc... is AMD going for Intel's jugular on quad-socket Xeon? Also sounds like we're getting new sockets with the Zen 4 generation for PCIe 5 and DDR 5.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:56
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isndl posted:What do you recommend for scrambling eggs? Can't find Pentium 4s anymore. GTX 480, it has a griddle built right in on top https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLdXfFsgvkE MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 18:09
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Zen 3 still going to be AM4/TR4?
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Nov 12, 2018 18:23
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