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Torrannor posted:Every left-hander is sinister by default. How gauche.
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Nov 9, 2018 14:54
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Hazborgufen posted:Ok, now this is weird. I'm partway through Messages From Earth and I noticed Ivanova is only wearing one earring and it's on her left ear. First I notice left handed characters and now that. Is "left" a theme I should be paying attention to? No, but Ivanova wears only one earring for a reason. She gave the other to her brother as a luck charm when he went to serve in the Minbari War, and after he died she allowed the piercing to heal.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:04
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Continuing the left theme, Bester's bad hand -- the one that's permanently gripped into a fist -- is his left hand.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:11
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's conspiracy theory. You don't get magically better writing - about unrelated topics - because you read a treatment for another programme. Just because DS9 had good writers who were able to add original work doesn't mean the premise and much of the background wasn't stolen from the series book brought in by JMS before the whole thing was conceived.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:12
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Dirty posted:This was my favourite thing about Babylon 5. The world felt real and fully-formed, and it didn't casually toss in epoch-defining discoveries like gods, superweapons, world-changing technologies etc. for the sole purpose of making a 45-minute point. The Star Trek universe feels like a circus sometimes, everywhere you look there's something astounding and improbable, to the point where nothing is, and nothing matters when the episode ends. I know that's a pretty stale thing to say at this point - Star Trek is at it's core episodic, but in 1994 everything was episodic, which made every plot twist and escalation in B5 very exciting. I remember watching the Earth Force destroyer ramming sequence in Severed Dreams and thinking "holy poo poo, they're really doing it, everything's about to change". 18-year-old me hadn't seen TV like that. 40-year-old me has seen a lot since then, and I can see how B5 might be a hard sell to a modern TV watcher - it broke some ground at the time, but you don't get that from it today. But I still think it's drat good and there's nothing quite like it. What I like about this is that yes TV in the 80s-90s had settled into a comfortable sitcom-style episodic groove where the universe resets at the end of every half-hour, as the industry had figured out syndication and thought it was the greatest cash cow ever. But that was not just "the way it always was"; serials were more the "default" state, dating back to the golden age of radio and even serialized novels (published in weekly/monthly magazines) before that. Cliffhangers and months-long plot developments were arguably "how it was always done", and the syndicated/episodic format is going to be the weird aberration in history now that TV has gone thoroughly back to serialization (especially since streaming seasons dropping all at once makes it a no-brainer).
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Nov 9, 2018 15:12
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Jedit posted:No, but Ivanova wears only one earring for a reason. She gave the other to her brother as a luck charm when he went to serve in the Minbari War, and after he died she allowed the piercing to heal. Oh, I was just going to call that one off because at the end of the episode when she's in casual clothes and Marcus comes in to show her an organizational chart she was wearing two dangling earrings. But now I see that details like that might be a thing. Bester's hand for instance as mentioned above, which I hadn't noticed was bad before, was also mentioned. If nothing else it'll be fun to notice details. For example, when Delenn and Sheridan were in the barracks on the White Star this episode, they were both laying down to the left of each other (since the beds alternated direction) and held each other's left hands as they listened to the rain. I'm probably way overthinking this, but once you notice something you're bound to keep trying to confirm it.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:38
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's conspiracy theory. You don't get magically better writing - about unrelated topics - because you read a treatment for another programme. As much as I want to believe, yeah. TNG had massive writer turnover for the first couple of seasons, and it probably didn't help that Roddenberry was writing for some of the first one too.
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Nov 9, 2018 16:06
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Just because DS9 had good writers who were able to add original work doesn't mean the premise and much of the background wasn't stolen from the series book brought in by JMS before the whole thing was conceived. The problem is, this is completely at odds with how everyone who worked in the production of DS9 interacted with the studio and what they had to do to make the show happen. JMS' theory about someone at Paramount reading his treatment and then passing people at DS9 certain notes and ideas from "somewhere" is the perspective of every person with a brilliant idea who finds out someone else beat them to the punch and can't let it go. Nobody wants to admit when they're simply second across the finish line, especially on something they've been pouring their heart and soul into, and it's easier to believe a conspiracy than to accept a coincidence. Hazborgufen posted:Oh, I was just going to call that one off because at the end of the episode when she's in casual clothes and Marcus comes in to show her an organizational chart she was wearing two dangling earrings. And just to prove I'm really in a spoilsport mood: Walter Koenig came up with Bester's crippled hand himself, he just thought it'd be interesting that someone with so much mental power would also have an obvious physical weakness. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 16:20
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's conspiracy theory. You don't get magically better writing - about unrelated topics - because you read a treatment for another programme. Especially when it's the executives who saw the treatment and are the "vector" for its influence. They didn't meddle to a specific-enough point to reshape the stories on TNG, beyond dumping Roddenberry, and JMS didn't give them much to steal on the level of individual plots. For DS9, though, the situation is far more plausible. Paramount execs read the B5 treatment, ask themselves why JMS should get a piece of the profits when they own a perfectly good sci-fi franchise already, turn him down, and then call in the Trek showrunners and ask if they ever thought about a "Casablanca in Space" concept before. "We've had a brilliant idea!" The Trek folks come back with a treatment, and the execs make comments like "you should have a shapeshifter in the show" or "religion should play more of a part." After the fact, JMS will be complaining bitterly, while the DS9 folks can honestly say that they never saw or even heard about the B5 treatment, because none of those executives are participating in that conversation and they're the thieves if anyone was. Knowing how a certain kind of executive can be, it's quite possible that they managed to convince themselves that all their great ideas were developed independently because they forgot JMS' name the instant he walked out the door with a "no."
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Nov 9, 2018 16:23
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Just because DS9 had good writers who were able to add original work doesn't mean the premise and much of the background wasn't stolen from the series book brought in by JMS before the whole thing was conceived. Not sure how that relates to TNG getting better
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Nov 9, 2018 17:00
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Hazborgufen posted:Oh, I was just going to call that one off because at the end of the episode when she's in casual clothes and Marcus comes in to show her an organizational chart she was wearing two dangling earrings. Isn't JMS left-handed? It could just be a by-product of him being so involved in the production that he set things up himself, and did it the way that was natural for him as a left-hander. 
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Nov 9, 2018 18:40
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Isn't JMS left-handed? It could just be a by-product of him being so involved in the production that he set things up himself, and did it the way that was natural for him as a left-hander. I really like this insane theory for some reason, please keep developing it. Which way does b5 rotate?
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Nov 9, 2018 20:12
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^^^ Clockwise.McSpanky posted:And just to prove I'm really in a spoilsport mood: Walter Koenig came up with Bester's crippled hand himself, he just thought it'd be interesting that someone with so much mental power would also have an obvious physical weakness. Then it got written into official canon (in the Psi-Corps Trilogy, not the series) that it's psychosomatic, so Bester is actually left handed as well. Jedit fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 20:13
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Torrannor posted:Every left-hander is sinister by default.  Well played.
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Nov 9, 2018 21:36
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Everyone's left-handed because Babylon 5 takes place on the Enterprise's holodeck.
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Nov 9, 2018 22:33
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Also the Frogstar Fighters are green.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:29
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Data Graham posted:Also the Frogstar Fighters are green. PURPLE 
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Nov 10, 2018 00:32
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You know, I want to see what kind of in-universe meeting goes into deciding which way the station's gonna rotate during the Babylon Project's early phases. Is it a standardized thing for all ships and installations, or did it devolve into a screaming argument that made Drazi politics look polite?
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Nov 10, 2018 02:32
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Babylons 1-4 span in both directions. Now what went into deciding which colours they were, that might be interesting. Babylon 1 was red, we know 4 was green and 5 is blue. We can presume 2 and 3 were also coloured differently, maybe orange and yellow for a rough rainbow order.
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Nov 10, 2018 03:25
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Babylon 4 would've had extreme problems with the Drazi
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Nov 10, 2018 03:49
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Neddy Seagoon posted:You know, I want to see what kind of in-universe meeting goes into deciding which way the station's gonna rotate during the Babylon Project's early phases. Is it a standardized thing for all ships and installations, or did it devolve into a screaming argument that made Drazi politics look polite? Does B5 have a counterweight? If not, I’m pretty sure it would have to rotate in-line with its orbit or risk wobbling down the well...
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Nov 10, 2018 04:09
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There aren't counter-rotating sections on B5 or Omegas but I imagine the non-rotating part of B5 has stationkeeping thrusters or something. I swear I remember a couple times when an Omega lost power and started veering off to the correct side to make sense with its rotating section.
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Nov 10, 2018 04:13
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Jedit posted:^^^ Clockwise. Only from the front! 
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Nov 10, 2018 04:18
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Tsaedje posted:Babylons 1-4 span in both directions. Now what went into deciding which colours they were, that might be interesting. Assuming they did it in rainbow order (reasonable), then if the first station was completed as planned all that red theme lighting would've been hideous. Then again, the Narns would've felt right at home. Grand Fromage posted:There aren't counter-rotating sections on B5 or Omegas but I imagine the non-rotating part of B5 has stationkeeping thrusters or something. Right, B5 doesn't need a counter-rotating section since it's stationary (though the bigger 1-4 designs had it so they could indeed maneuver unassisted) and the Omega rotating portion doesn't seem to spin very fast so it doesn't generate an unmanageable amount of momentum. The main reason a modern spaceship design would need a counterweight in opposing rotation is because we can't build something both large enough and strong enough to handle the torque of a habitable flying gyroscope without tearing itself apart as soon as it had to vector off-axis. The B5 setting can write this problem off with scifi superscience, the Omegas are just gosh-darn  enough to deal with it.
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Nov 10, 2018 04:40
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I would imagine a warship strong enough to stand up to battle can handle the force of spinning around a bit. Of course the main reason Omegas don't have counter-rotating sections is the Leonov didn't.
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Nov 10, 2018 04:43
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Tsaedje posted:Babylons 1-4 span in both directions. Now what went into deciding which colours they were, that might be interesting. Where did we find out the first Babylon Station was red? Did that get a throwaway line in an episode or did JMS say it at some point?
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Nov 10, 2018 04:54
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Where did we find out the first Babylon Station was red? Did that get a throwaway line in an episode or did JMS say it at some point? We see it blow up in In The Beginning.
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Nov 10, 2018 04:57
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Oh man, it's been so long since I watched that I'd forgotten. Thanks.
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Nov 10, 2018 05:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Just because DS9 had good writers who were able to add original work doesn't mean the premise and much of the background wasn't stolen from the series book brought in by JMS before the whole thing was conceived. Yep. The Cardassians and the Membari both having Dukat/Dukhat as significant leaders seems like a helluva coincidence. Also PTSD themes for both season 1 commanders is a smoking gun in my eyes.
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Nov 10, 2018 16:09
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Expired Vitamin posted:Membari The what?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:19
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Q_res posted:The what? Minbari....my bad for multitasking.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:33
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Q_res posted:The what? YOu know, the bonerheads.
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Nov 10, 2018 18:37
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Babylon 4 would've had extreme problems with the Drazi Only half of them.
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Nov 10, 2018 18:46
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Hey Zooty!
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Nov 12, 2018 00:07
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I'm with Londo; I don't get the fuss about Rebo and Zooty.
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Nov 12, 2018 04:21
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Expired Vitamin posted:I'm with Londo; I don't get the fuss about Rebo and Zooty. Lmao look at this dude. Not getting zoot zoot. Haha. Can you imagine?
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Nov 12, 2018 04:54
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Expired Vitamin posted:I'm with Londo; I don't get the fuss about Rebo and Zooty. lol get a load of grandpa over here zooty zoot zoot is an all-time classic
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Nov 12, 2018 04:57
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They aren't funny, which is actually hilarious
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Nov 12, 2018 10:34
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dreadmojo posted:They aren't funny, which is actually hilarious Rebo and Zooty got visited by Andy Kaufman’s ghost
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Nov 12, 2018 10:42
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Luigi Thirty posted:Rebo and Zooty got visited by Andy Kaufman’s ghost Yeah but just to book a gig for Tony Clifton. The mantle of Tony Clifton will be carried, preserved and cherished by the Rangers as long as one of them still has breath. Also, this supernatural experience will cause Rebo to spend the rest of his life on a quest to prove that Andy was just a technomage.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:46
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