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StonecutterJoe posted:An average novel is 90k words. A WoT or Sanderson doorstopper is a few times that, but let's look at that for a baseline. lol BananaNutkins posted:The entire genre is incestuous to a shameful degree, and that's why I try to encourage people to read outside the genre if they want to write fantasy or sf. Brent Weeks cribs from the Wheel of Time ALOT in the last two Night Angel books. Scott Lynch was inspired by Final Fantasy 6. Joe Abercrombie is pretty savvy and steals from other genres to subvert fantasy genre expectation, but he still follows the hero's journey very blatantly in his first trilogy. What fantasy genre expectations does Joe Abercrombie subvert?
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Nov 12, 2018 09:38
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Can we please keep Abercrombie chat in the other thread? I agree with the assertion that writing a fantasy novel is more comparable to writing the script of a movie/tv show, while writing a literary book is more comparable with creating a true art paintwork. So it makes sense somebody like Sanderson can write much faster than more literary authors.
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Nov 12, 2018 11:42
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Mel Mudkiper posted:this... this is a deeply upsetting mentality You literally asked "Like, how much did he reflect on a sentence before committing to it?" That's a quote, from you.
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Nov 12, 2018 11:51
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Walh Hara posted:I agree with the assertion that writing a fantasy novel is more comparable to writing the script of a movie/tv show, while writing a literary book is more comparable with creating a true art paintwork. So it makes sense somebody like Sanderson can write much faster than more literary authors. Movie/tv scripts, famously meant to be cranked out without regard for quality.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:32
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Movie/tv scripts, famously meant to be cranked out without regard for quality. Yes? Or do you think each season of Agents of Shield take years to write
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Nov 12, 2018 12:42
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it's good to know that even people who read fantasy think it's a shoddy poorly made type of art
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Nov 12, 2018 12:42
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Movie/tv scripts, famously meant to be cranked out without regard for quality. Quality != artful/literary. A book doesn't need to be an artwork brimming with innovative techniques and awesome prose to be very enjoyable (good world building, character development and plot). Neither does a movie/tv script. If you want to create true literary art it's probably impossible to match the writing output as somebody like Sanderson. I think Sanderson can write so fast because he focuses on the story and world building more than on prose and art. That said, compared to most other fantasy authors his prose is still decent, just nowhere as good as real literary geniuses.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:54
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A human heart posted:it's good to know that even people who read fantasy think it's a shoddy poorly made type of art There is no such thing as art, just varying degrees of trash.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:56
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A human heart posted:it's good to know that even people who read fantasy think it's a shoddy poorly made type of art I don't think it's shoddy or poorly made, just not art per se. I mean, I also read non-fiction. Do I consider Jonathan Sumption's books artwork? Of course not. But it's still very interesting and enjoyable to read. Same with fantasy. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 13:10 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 13:08
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CharlestheHammer posted:There is no such thing as art, just varying degrees of trash. That's stupid. have some self respect.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:16
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A human heart posted:That's stupid. have some self respect. Lol, touched a nerve I guess. Sorry the stuff you like is trash. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 12, 2018 13:20
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CharlestheHammer posted:Lol, touched a nerve I guess. Sorry the stuff you like is trash. ?
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Nov 12, 2018 13:24
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Walh Hara posted:I don't think it's shoddy or poorly made, just not art per se. You responded to bait. AHH likes to shitpost threads with puerile and useless comments looking to get a rise from someone. Just pass their post on by and don't respond to them.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:26
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I don’t think I could be clearer.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:27
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Owned.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:28
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From the little Sanderson I've read, I have to wonder why he even writes novels when he'd clearly much rather be programming video games.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:30
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I do wonder why all of a sudden this thread is getting a lot of half assed trolls. It’s not like a book released recently so it seems random.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:31
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CharlestheHammer posted:I do wonder why all of a sudden this thread is getting a lot of half assed trolls. There are a lot of people in the Book Barn that get VERY upset when you enjoy the wrong the things.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:32
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Sham bam bamina! posted:From the little Sanderson I've read, I have to wonder why he even writes novels when he'd clearly much rather be programming video games. What makes you think he would want to do video games. I very much doubt he even plays video games let along want to program them.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:33
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CharlestheHammer posted:What makes you think he would want to do video games. I very much doubt he even plays video games let along want to program them.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:34
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Not trolling, just giving my honest Hot Take.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:What makes you think he would want to do video games. I very much doubt he even plays video games let along want to program them. He's on record saying he'd love CD Projekt to do Mistborn like the Witcher, so he's a fan. But I don't think he wants to do the design or anything.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:35
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Sham bam bamina! posted:He writes about magic like it's a game engine. Reading his action scenes is like watching a livestream. I mean his magic does have rules but their aren’t like bars or anything so I honestly don’t see the comparison. Like what in particular about his magic system do you think is videogamey.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:37
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Some more Skyward chat, because this technical book/genre talk is boring and a bit pointless in this thread. Did anyone else think that the big secret might be that the aliens in space are actually fabricated to keep the military dictatorship in power? It felt a bit Brave New World / 1984ish to me.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:38
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean his magic does have rules but their aren’t like bars or anything so I honestly don’t see the comparison. quote:The Shardbearer struck. Szeth skipped to the side and Lashed himself to the ceiling as the Shardbearer’s Blade sliced into the wall. Feeling a thrill at the contest, Szeth dashed forward and attacked downward with an overhand blow, trying to hit the Shardbearer’s helm. The man ducked, going down on one knee, letting Szeth’s Blade cleave empty air.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:40
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Sham bam bamina! posted:If you turn off the HUD in a game, does it stop being a game for you? That’s an action scene. Action scenes are not inherently video gamey.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:41
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CharlestheHammer posted:That’s an action scene. Action scenes are not inherently video gamey.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:43
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Sham bam bamina! posted:No poo poo they aren't, which is why his video-gamey treatment of them is so conspicuous. Well could you post it then, as that scene is not a great example of that.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:46
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well could you post it then, as that scene is not a great example of that. That scene is commonly used as an egregious example of how some of his poo poo reads like video games. And it does. He's gotten much better, but he still has this power-up->boss fight vibe from time to time. And this is coming from someone who enjoys his books.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:48
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Tahirovic posted:Some more Skyward chat, because this technical book/genre talk is boring and a bit pointless in this thread. did you... not finish the book?
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Nov 12, 2018 13:49
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Proteus Jones posted:That scene is commonly used as an egregious example of how some of his poo poo reads like video games. And it does. He's gotten much better, but he still has this power-up->boss fight vibe from time to time. I guess I just don’t see it, it just reads like generic action scene to me. The action scenes have never been a favorite but I always found the video game complaint really poorly thought out.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:52
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I also strongly dispute that Sanderson can only write world building. What kind of problems do people have with his plotting for example? I found most of this pretty good. And while he sometimes has problems with writing characters, it's by no means uniform. Hrathen form Elantris was really well written imho. Wax and Wayne are a fun duo, and I think his writing on Kaladin is a pretty good way to portrait a (clinically) depressed character. Sham bam bamina! posted:This is a loving boss battle. That's true, but this is rather the exception than the rule.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:55
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Tahirovic posted:Some more Skyward chat, because this technical book/genre talk is boring and a bit pointless in this thread. Uh, what is happening above the debris field gets explained or at least shown in this book, you should read on if you haven't hit the part yet (which you obviously haven't).
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Nov 12, 2018 13:57
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I mean I always thought the more accurate criticism of his action is it can drag a bit. The posted fight is more an example of that then the silly video game comparison.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:59
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CharlestheHammer posted:Well could you post it then, as that scene is not a great example of that. Proteus Jones posted:That scene is commonly used as an egregious example of how some of his poo poo reads like video games. And it does. He's gotten much better, but he still has this power-up->boss fight vibe from time to time.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:59
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I’m not sure you know what a video game is frankly.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:02
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I can't even tell if you're baiting me or not at this point, but if I transcribed myself playing Ocarina of Time, it would read identically.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:03
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Sham bam bamina! posted:If he's improved, fair enough. And I wasn't aware that this was such a go-to case; I only knew it from being interested in Stormlight, reading the free prologue on Tor's website, and no longer being interested in Stormlight. It's pretty infamous in that regard. He's set up his rules for how magic works in Stormlight here, and it's never again this video gamey in the rest of the books. I think he's even on record that he regrets writing it this way in what's basically the first real scene of the series.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:03
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Sham bam bamina! posted:You're playing dumb, right? The discrete, fixed moves like Lashing, the items that function according to explicit, constant mechanics and are described in disconnected snippets like entries in an inventory, the "this happened, then this happened, then this happened" monotone narration that even replicates the dispassionate perspective of a video game's camera... I couldn't write a better parody if I tried. It's amazingly sterile. yeah that scene isn't even representative of way of kings let alone any other book
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Nov 12, 2018 14:05
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I can't even tell if you're baiting me or not at this point, but if I transcribed myself playing Ocarina of Time, it would read identically. I just thought you were baiting me really but this comparison is one a lot of people make and frankly it’s baffling. I guess nerds are gonna compare it to what they know but it always seemed a stretch to me.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:06
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