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Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011

interrodactyl posted:

It is very difficult to build strength while you're cutting weight. No comment on the brain stuff.

I'm almost always 5-7lbs heavier while I'm training compared to when I'm on a climbing trip.

Gaining strength is fine, but I would argue for most people 5-7 lbs of muscle is just wasted when discussing climbing.

You can't spot gain muscle in back/biceps/core, and how useful is 5-7 lbs of muscle anywhere else?

If the goal is looking good cool, but I can't see that being useful for climbing.

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Mons Hubris
Aug 29, 2004

fanci flup :)


I tried bouldering outdoors for the first time in Red Rocks today. It’s not as much harder as gym climbing as I was led to believe, but coming down is a hell of a lot scarier. Real fun V0-V2 routes out there though.

DrAlexanderTobacco
Jun 11, 2012

Help me find my true dharma

Ubiquitus posted:



You can't spot gain muscle in back/biceps/core

Yes you can

Ubiquitus
Nov 20, 2011


Sorry you're right, idk what I was posting about. Don't drink and post kids

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$

Cannon_Fodder posted:

This doesn't sound real healthy. Why are you pursuing this so aggressively?

It was a keto experiment. In general I found that I wasn't super hungry, and when I was, it was mostly ignorable and not particularly intrusive. Part of it was also that the experiment had a very real time limit - intentionally maxing out around two months - and I wanted to push it for what gains (cuts) I could.

I haven't been back to the gym yet, loving people and their 'well I might be at the gym at this time, hmu' responses to clear requests for committed plans for training...

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.
Did my first trad lead rope soloing today. Complete success! Not scary at all if you have your systems dialed, but you’ve got to have your systems down cold.

Standard disclaimer: Don’t solo climb, yer gonna die, etc.

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

trad rope solo seems like a huge amount of logistical effort

is this true, expert rope technician Business of Ferrets?

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

Tactical Lesbian posted:

trad rope solo seems like a huge amount of logistical effort

is this true, expert rope technician Business of Ferrets?

Ha, hardly an expert!

It does take longer to get moving up the climb, since you need a good anchor and to make sure the rope is set correctly in your fall-arrest device. Then a few backup knots, ideally attached to the harness to help with rope drag. Nobody is there to check your setup, so taking one’s time and triple-checking everything seems to be a good habit to get into.

But once everything is set, it pretty much goes like regular trad climbing. The climb from the anchor to the first piece of pro is a bit spooky because there isn’t anyone there to spot you, but once past that it was pretty familiar. Just untie the backup knots as they come along and make sure there isn’t too much slack in the system.

There wasn’t a walk-off at the top, but since the climb was a single pitch and shorter than half the length of the rope, I just built a rappel anchor, fed some slack into the system, and rappelled down, collecting pro as I went. Downclimbing was an even simpler, but less secure option. Multipitch would be a lot more complex, involving fixing rope at the top of the pitch, rappelling to collect pro/clean the bottom anchor, then solo top roping or jumaring back up. Will have to work my way up to that.

Overall, though, it was great fun, and really satisfying to get the climbing in on my own timeline without an available partner. Over the years, I’ve had formal instruction in anchor building and self-rescue, along with practice. Probably would not have felt comfortable going it alone without that.

Hauki
May 11, 2010


took my first good fall off the top of a v4 yesterday, don't think I really injured anything but definitely feeling a twinge in my anterior tibia today and one wrist is a little crunchy

small potatoes, but we've only been climbing seriously for like a month now and I felt like I was so close to sending that I didn't want to bail

lost focus for a second, calf relaxed and slipped a toehold and that was enough momentum to drop me straight down

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

Hauki posted:

took my first good fall off the top of a v4 yesterday, don't think I really injured anything but definitely feeling a twinge in my anterior tibia today and one wrist is a little crunchy

small potatoes, but we've only been climbing seriously for like a month now and I felt like I was so close to sending that I didn't want to bail

lost focus for a second, calf relaxed and slipped a toehold and that was enough momentum to drop me straight down

It's worth taking the time to practice rolling out of falls if you've never done it before. Helps you not get injured and also helps climbing because once you're confident nothing bad'll happen if you miss the move you'll be able to go for things confidently.

Verviticus
Mar 13, 2006

I'm just a total piece of shit and I'm not sure why I keep posting on this site. Christ, I have spent years with idiots giving me bad advice about online dating and haven't noticed that the thread I'm in selects for people that can't talk to people worth a damn.
ive gotten pretty good at the falling at hitting the ground, but my brain is still terrified of the falling and hitting my head on holds or just losing all my skin. if you look at my arms and my shins its probably a good fear

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

Business of Ferrets posted:

Ha, hardly an expert!

It does take longer to get moving up the climb, since you need a good anchor and to make sure the rope is set correctly in your fall-arrest device. Then a few backup knots, ideally attached to the harness to help with rope drag. Nobody is there to check your setup, so taking one’s time and triple-checking everything seems to be a good habit to get into.

But once everything is set, it pretty much goes like regular trad climbing. The climb from the anchor to the first piece of pro is a bit spooky because there isn’t anyone there to spot you, but once past that it was pretty familiar. Just untie the backup knots as they come along and make sure there isn’t too much slack in the system.

There wasn’t a walk-off at the top, but since the climb was a single pitch and shorter than half the length of the rope, I just built a rappel anchor, fed some slack into the system, and rappelled down, collecting pro as I went. Downclimbing was an even simpler, but less secure option. Multipitch would be a lot more complex, involving fixing rope at the top of the pitch, rappelling to collect pro/clean the bottom anchor, then solo top roping or jumaring back up. Will have to work my way up to that.

Overall, though, it was great fun, and really satisfying to get the climbing in on my own timeline without an available partner. Over the years, I’ve had formal instruction in anchor building and self-rescue, along with practice. Probably would not have felt comfortable going it alone without that.

i can see how this really appeals to the technical aspect of trad climbing! sounds really fun, actually -- and being able to do these climbs on your own time completely independently is an interesting concept as well. thanks for sharing. :)

Hauki
May 11, 2010


M. Night Skymall posted:

It's worth taking the time to practice rolling out of falls if you've never done it before. Helps you not get injured and also helps climbing because once you're confident nothing bad'll happen if you miss the move you'll be able to go for things confidently.

yeah, I've fallen enough on top rope stuff but bouldering is pretty new to me and while I've slipped holds a couple times or restarted routes, I've never decked like that

I've mostly been trying to downclimb problems for practice so far with the occasional short jump off, but I guess if I'm gonna be taking a stab at harder things I should practice falling and learn when to just bail onto other routes

in other news, ropes were on sale and I bit, so hopefully we can start pushing to lead sooner than later

also having to force myself to take rest days because with the gym being a mile from my house, the temptation to constantly go work on something is pretty strong

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

humblebrag time: did a lead class & took the test to get certified in my gym this weekend, and apparently it's "very rare" that someone doesn't hesitate to take that first lead fall on purpose and isn't scared by it whatsoever

the source of my fearlessness: crippling depression, fam

10/10 would recommend to my fellow something awful forums posters

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

Ubiquitus posted:

How do you come to the conclusion that being lighter is worse for training?

I didn't I said getting lighter is worse for training. Being on a calorie deficit makes it very hard to keep up quality and volume. Being lighter is bueno!


DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

It's true that it's difficult to *build* strength while cutting - but at the same time with a high enough protein intake it's perfectly possible to retain strength/muscle whilst shedding fat. This leads to you "feeling" stronger because you're lifting a lighter version of yourself - and climbing is all about that, plus endurance, rather than seeing your squat weight go up week-on-week.

If your losing weight for climbing specific reasons, I dunno how much you should care about retaining muscle mass. Recruitment is what really matters for climbing, and that's a property of the nervous system.


Business of Ferrets posted:

Did my first trad lead rope soloing today. Complete success!

What was the setup, roughly?

Cannon_Fodder
Jul 17, 2007

"Hey, where did Steve go?"
Design by Kamoc
ETA for gym re-open: 2 weeks.

:toot:

I've been dying to climb. Goddamn.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Tactical Lesbian posted:

i can see how this really appeals to the technical aspect of trad climbing! sounds really fun, actually -- and being able to do these climbs on your own time completely independently is an interesting concept as well. thanks for sharing. :)

I always wondered why people rope solo.

It seems to boil down to:

They love climbing so much that they can't find enough partners.
They really suck to climb with so they can't find partners.
They really like to do way more work than needed, enjoy the "tedious challenge".

I know people who really enjoy it but I think I would lose my mind.

Sharks Eat Bear
Dec 25, 2004

jiggerypokery posted:

If your losing weight for climbing specific reasons, I dunno how much you should care about retaining muscle mass. Recruitment is what really matters for climbing, and that's a property of the nervous system.

That's an unduly short-sighted view IMO. Forearms might be small muscles relative to glutes and shoulders and so forth, and it may be harder to achieve meaningful hypertrophy, but if you want to make gains in finger strength over the long-term, you're going to need to build some new muscle and not just recruit whatever muscle you have today.

Business of Ferrets
Mar 2, 2008

Good to see that everything is back to normal.

jiggerypokery posted:

What was the setup, roughly?

Silent Partner, 10.2 rope clove hitched in 4-5 meter loops to lockers attached to belay loop for backup and rope-drag reduction.

spwrozek posted:

I always wondered why people rope solo.

It seems to boil down to:

They love climbing so much that they can't find enough partners.
They really suck to climb with so they can't find partners.
They really like to do way more work than needed, enjoy the "tedious challenge".

I know people who really enjoy it but I think I would lose my mind.

All of the above! In seriousness, though, my schedule and work/life commitments make it hard to find and keep good partners, so when I just need to climb in the middle of a random workday and have the time off, its rope solo or take a pass. If I had a partner available, that always would be my preference.

That said, I’m very wary of the technical climbing tradecraft of many of the locals; a friend got to an ice climb last winter only to find a group of locals with a drill planning to use expansion bolts to “bolt” the ice. . . . He probably saved their lives by talking them into leaving.

Meaty Ore
Dec 17, 2011

My God, it's full of cat pictures!




:stonk:

Jesus Christ. I've never gone ice climbing and even I know exactly what that would do.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Dude..... That is some f-ed up stuff right there...

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

i keep hearing tales of idiots at the crag but every time it's the most unbelievably dumb poo poo

expansion bolts in ice is a new level

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum
I'm really glad that idiot got like $1500 for a silent partner on EBay last month, because the market was suddenly flooded and now I've won one for slightly more than retail and can finally pursue my solo-aid alpine bigwall dreams.

:getin:

Tactical Lesbian posted:

humblebrag time: did a lead class & took the test to get certified in my gym this weekend, and apparently it's "very rare" that someone doesn't hesitate to take that first lead fall on purpose and isn't scared by it whatsoever

the source of my fearlessness: crippling depression, fam

10/10 would recommend to my fellow something awful forums posters

Crippling depression is how and why I got into rock climbing, and now that I no longer have it I find myself with a crippling fear of heights + hanging off gear belays making GBS threads myself in terror and doing rope access for my day job.

I may have beaten the suicide but I guess my brain got the last laugh in the end?

Rime fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Nov 15, 2018

jiggerypokery
Feb 1, 2012

...But I could hardly wait six months with a red hot jape like that under me belt.

Sharks Eat Bear posted:

That's an unduly short-sighted view IMO. Forearms might be small muscles relative to glutes and shoulders and so forth, and it may be harder to achieve meaningful hypertrophy, but if you want to make gains in finger strength over the long-term, you're going to need to build some new muscle and not just recruit whatever muscle you have today.

If you're losing weight specifically for climbing, you need to shift thigh and glute muscle mass too.

Long term finger strength gains are to be found in increasing the strength of the signal your nervous system sends. This is why a max-hang protocol is the best way to increase finger strength, rather than a repeater protocol which would produce far more hypertrophy in the forearm.

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

Rime posted:

Crippling depression is how and why I got into rock climbing, and now that I no longer have it I find myself with a crippling fear of heights + hanging off gear belays making GBS threads myself in terror and doing rope access for my day job.

I may have beaten the suicide but I guess my brain got the last laugh in the end?

i got sucked into climbing because it cures my sadbrains and now i'm just desperately planning my entire life around it because without it, life is an endless cycle of work and sadness leading to an unfulfilling decay at the end filled with nothing but regret

:yayclod:

thanks capitalism

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


Very real in here atm

Tactical Lesbian
Mar 31, 2012

ShaneB posted:

Very real in here atm

based on what i've seen on some climbing forums and such, doesn't basically everyone get this helplessly sucked into climbing?



like lmao this guy. "don't have kids. climb. family bad. climb good."

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

Tactical Lesbian posted:

based on what i've seen on some climbing forums and such, doesn't basically everyone get this helplessly sucked into climbing?



like lmao this guy. "don't have kids. climb. family bad. climb good."

Pfft, nearly a decade? Youth programs start at 3 years old now, guy needs to figure poo poo out. I would kill for a 24 hour gym though so I could climb in the morning. Infants are real gains goblins.

Rime
Nov 2, 2011

by Games Forum
Pretty sure Tommy Caldwell roped gunned his 4 year old up 9 pitches on The Nose last weekend, if I'm recalling my Instagram correctly. So yeah, it's a matter of dedication to the craft above all.

Speaking of, I'm going to be working in a remote camp 3 hours from Toronto for the next six months. How can I train without any rock or gyms so that I am not a limp noodle when I return to BC? :sigh:

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

Rime posted:

Speaking of, I'm going to be working in a remote camp 3 hours from Toronto for the next six months. How can I train without any rock or gyms so that I am not a limp noodle when I return to BC? :sigh:
Bring rings and find somewhere to hang them? Tree branch, exposed rafter, or whatever that'll support your weight is fine. Metolius rock rings or portable power grips are also pretty easy to set up most places.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
As someone with a background in circus arts training please don't hang things from tree limbs.

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

cheese eats mouse posted:

As someone with a background in circus arts training please don't hang things from tree limbs.

Are you seriously going to argue that tree limbs can't support a person's weight? People hang rings from tree limbs literally all the time. Maybe don't do a gymnastics routine on them but they're not going anywhere for your dips or pull ups or whatever.

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


I'm gonna brag for my dude Hauki and congratulate him on sending (and basically flashing) his first 5.10a indoors last night. We've been climbing a lot since we caught the bug and I'm proud of him for continuing to be slightly better than me.

I definitely am noticing small incremental growth in my own climbing, too. I was able to send a particularly annoying 5.9 for the second time after failing a bunch on it over the previous weeks, and get a V3 boulder problem first time that I had only sent once before, even after having done a lot of climbing already that night. And I made a lot more progress on a challenging overhang V3 that I think I can get next time.

TL, DR - climbing is fun, feeling like you're getting better is fun.

cheese eats mouse
Jul 6, 2007

A real Portlander now
Don’t be an rear end in a top hat I’m trying to say with my background I’m skeptic of rigging things from trees. Go ahead and do what you want.

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004

I SHOULD GO AND GET FUCKED

Rime posted:

Speaking of, I'm going to be working in a remote camp 3 hours from Toronto for the next six months. How can I train without any rock or gyms so that I am not a limp noodle when I return to BC? :sigh:

Where 3 hours from Toronto? If it's north, there's tons of rock out there, it's the Canadian shield. You'll just have to explore and find it for yourself. Here is some cool rock I found on a hike this past summer.



Endjinneer
Aug 17, 2005
Fallen Rib

Rime posted:

Speaking of, I'm going to be working in a remote camp 3 hours from Toronto for the next six months. How can I train without any rock or gyms so that I am not a limp noodle when I return to BC? :sigh:

I think Steve McClure takes a fingerboard on family holidays which he rigs up on a handy tree so he can practice crushing while his kids play on the beach.

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009

M. Night Skymall posted:

Bring rings and find somewhere to hang them? Tree branch, exposed rafter, or whatever that'll support your weight is fine. Metolius rock rings or portable power grips are also pretty easy to set up most places.

have you been to Canada in the winter

crazycello
Jul 22, 2009

Kasumeat posted:

Where 3 hours from Toronto? If it's north, there's tons of rock out there, it's the Canadian shield. You'll just have to explore and find it for yourself. Here is some cool rock I found on a hike this past summer.





perfect I'm planning on moving from the rockies already!!!

Kasumeat
Nov 18, 2004

I SHOULD GO AND GET FUCKED

crazycello posted:

have you been to Canada in the winter

Yeah this is the real issue

Edit: Are you still planning on living in a van in place where it frequently reaches -30?

Kasumeat fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Nov 16, 2018

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Hauki
May 11, 2010


ShaneB posted:

I'm gonna brag for my dude Hauki and congratulate him on sending (and basically flashing) his first 5.10a indoors last night. We've been climbing a lot since we caught the bug and I'm proud of him for continuing to be slightly better than me.

I definitely am noticing small incremental growth in my own climbing, too. I was able to send a particularly annoying 5.9 for the second time after failing a bunch on it over the previous weeks, and get a V3 boulder problem first time that I had only sent once before, even after having done a lot of climbing already that night. And I made a lot more progress on a challenging overhang V3 that I think I can get next time.

TL, DR - climbing is fun, feeling like you're getting better is fun.

thanks, I was pretty happy to clean that after that ugly start, I was also stoked to finish that other little problem even if it took some beta

there's definitely moves I'm able to stick now that I wasn't a few weeks ago which is a great feeling, and I think the same goes for you

I wanna go back again today, but I think that's a Bad Idea after two consecutive days of climbing already

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