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One thing is for sure - the depiction of the GDR is still and dreamlike (nostalgic, even), and the depiction of the DDR is Nazi-ridden, chaotic and grimy.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 02:43 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 23:39 |
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Oof what a miscalculation. Self-serious, ridiculously overstuffed with allusions to real-world events that don't go anywhere and feel shallow. It seems dour and embarrased to be a horror movie for most of the runtime, then when it does go full tilt, it usually comes off as laughable and goofy. The worst kind of pretentious nonsense. Really makes you appreciate great experimental genre movies like Neon Demon and Under the Skin, that could so easily go off the rails like this one does.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 08:35 |
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I mostly agree with the above, although I do want to watch a whole film with Tilda Swinton teaching students the essence of dance, painting, auto maintenance, baking cupcakes or any other drat thing.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 14:29 |
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At what point does it "feel embarassed to be a horror movie"?
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 14:33 |
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mary had a little clam posted:Is there a good reading on why Bader-Meinhoff was always going on in the background? I'm aware of the phenomenon (when you learn something new and suddenly see it everywhere) but it seemed like the filmmakers were using the event/group itself as a thematic reference. Any ideas? Yeah, I’m curious about this too. The reasonings I’ve read (“terrorism as a type of performance”) feel inadequate. I read that the cell dissolves in time with the coven narratively, and with the divided Berlin setting it could be intended as a reflection of the main narrative. I might need to watch again and see.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 15:00 |
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warez posted:Yeah, I’m curious about this too. The reasonings I’ve read (“terrorism as a type of performance”) feel inadequate. I read that the cell dissolves in time with the coven narratively, and with the divided Berlin setting it could be intended as a reflection of the main narrative. I might need to watch again and see. Yeah, that latter bit is how I took things. It feels pretty metaphorically representative of the plot itself, though I suspect if I knew more about the actual event I could say in far greater detail.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 15:20 |
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I could watch another hour of Tilda Swinton as Madame Blanc. She was awesome in that role and I truly bought the love between her and Suzy.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 15:59 |
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I would probably have disliked this without Tilda. Dakota Johnson was pretty dull. I didn’t get much of a sense of transformation from her as the story developed, just... flat.
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 18:36 |
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CAROLINE! *turns and stares into the camera*
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# ? Nov 5, 2018 23:26 |
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mary had a little clam posted:Is there a good reading on why Bader-Meinhoff was always going on in the background? I'm aware of the phenomenon (when you learn something new and suddenly see it everywhere) but it seemed like the filmmakers were using the event/group itself as a thematic reference. Any ideas? warez posted:Yeah, I’m curious about this too. The reasonings I’ve read (“terrorism as a type of performance”) feel inadequate. I read that the cell dissolves in time with the coven narratively, and with the divided Berlin setting it could be intended as a reflection of the main narrative. I might need to watch again and see. Um, well, this isn't particularly elegant or anything, but there are a lot of themes of division in the movie-- East and West Germany, Markos and Blanc, the Amish and the Mennonites... a lot of split pairs (pears).
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# ? Nov 6, 2018 03:16 |
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Stuart Wellington (one of the hosts of the Flophouse) mentioned on Twitter that for him, it played into the themes of young versus old, since I guess the RAF was popular with young leftists and hated by olds in Germany at the time.
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# ? Nov 6, 2018 13:29 |
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I just got back from seeing this and gotta say it was really really good. The absence of color is just as severe as to much. All around great I thought.
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 01:30 |
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Just got back in from seeing it a second time with my roommate. It made a lot more sense this time. Also, this time around we both loved the fact that Susie just throws her poo poo on the ground on the way to the final ritual like she owns the place.
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 07:55 |
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I loved this. Best part? No wops (by this I mean Italians, who it's impossible to be racist against unless you're some sort of idiot who volunteers to moderate an Internet forum). (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 08:51 |
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warez posted:Yeah, I’m curious about this too. The reasonings I’ve read (“terrorism as a type of performance”) feel inadequate. I read that the cell dissolves in time with the coven narratively, and with the divided Berlin setting it could be intended as a reflection of the main narrative. I might need to watch again and see. This is loving stupid, and speaks to why these forums are so poo poo at discussing media, which is that they don't really understand how to talk about media beyond druthers and preferences, because the users are brain damaged dullards conditioned by Warhammer fiction.
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 08:54 |
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Sir , this is a spook a doodle thread.
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 14:02 |
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sector_corrector posted:This is loving stupid, and speaks to why these forums are so poo poo at discussing media, which is that they don't really understand how to talk about media beyond druthers and preferences, because the users are brain damaged dullards conditioned by Warhammer fiction. Dullard here: how does discussing artistic/narrative choices and how they intersect with the films themes come across to you as "druthers and preferences"? Not only am I curious how the Bader-Meinhof gang informs the themes of Suspiria, I'm also curious at the filmmaker's deliberate choice to use drab colors (but interesting textures) in opposition to the original's garish colors. For me, it made me think about how buttoned-up subgroups deal with the crush of modern progress (or progression is maybe more accurate in the timeframe of the film). Obviously the film is about an ancient coven, but I think "ballet school" could also be considered an antiquated, repressed group along with Mennonites, etc. When colorless tradition (religion, etc) meets a brutalist future, what happens to that dangerous hot-blooded spark of youth? When the past is drab and the future looks drab, what is there left to do but wreck poo poo now (RAF, Head Exploding Death Avatar)? Anyway when you get off probation, come back and discuss media in a better way with us, I want to git gud at media analysis.
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# ? Nov 7, 2018 16:34 |
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sector_corrector posted:This is loving stupid, and speaks to why these forums are so poo poo at discussing media, which is that they don't really understand how to talk about media beyond druthers and preferences, because the users are brain damaged dullards conditioned by Warhammer fiction. Ok cool!
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 01:45 |
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I forgot to mention, during my second watch, I realized that you can hear someone listening to Klaus Nomi's Total Eclipse of the Sun the first time we see the dorm hall and now I love this movie even more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmLk2vSXXtk
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 02:52 |
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I thought that's what that was.
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 04:00 |
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mary had a little clam posted:Is there a good reading on why Bader-Meinhoff was always going on in the background? I'm aware of the phenomenon (when you learn something new and suddenly see it everywhere) but it seemed like the filmmakers were using the event/group itself as a thematic reference. Any ideas? It mirrors the doctor's discovery of the coven, after dismissing Patricia's diary and then investigating more it starts invading his life. Like when he leaves the Tanzakademie and sees one of the witches across the street transform into another woman.
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 05:30 |
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The shot of a mirror breaking silently on the ground and the crash/search zoom of the old man's garden to reveal him sitting alone near a tree eating an eclair were italian as gently caress.
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 18:24 |
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So, was the shambling corpse that chased Sara when she found Patricia definitely Olga? It looked like it was walking on legs without feet, but it could have just been the lighting. If so, there's a lot of focus on hands/feet that'd be an interesting angle to focus on. Thinking about it, this is almost an (appropriately) mirrored version of Suspiria; instead of opening with a murder, it takes a third of the runtime. The mystery is presented up front. The beige brutalism playing against art deco. The ending. It's this slightly familiar but odd, distorted negative to the original, and it's better for it. The giallo diversions are fantastic though, although I'm middling on the dragging shutter effect, and I'd love a non-filtered version of the climax - it got a surprising MA15 rating here, when watching it I thought it easily would have nabbed an R18.
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 21:15 |
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I just want more of the dream montages, those kicked serious rear end.
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# ? Nov 8, 2018 21:21 |
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I can't wait for the inevitable gif of the German teacher with the mole on her face smiling and nodding like Jack Nicholson from the Departed.
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# ? Nov 9, 2018 19:03 |
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This movie floored me. There's so much to unpack, I think I need to see it again before I really grasp it. That sixth act shook me the gently caress up.
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# ? Nov 11, 2018 05:33 |
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Yeah, I came out feeling like I'd need to fully unpack it over a few viewings over a few years. Initial instinct is that all the stuff that felt a bit extraneous the first time around will bear fruit on multiple viewings. But we'll see.
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# ? Nov 11, 2018 06:44 |
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Something I noticed upon a second viewing: after the performance of Volk we get several lingering shots of Susie on the floor “sigh”ing and a single tear that mimics another shot of her in the ritual room later. Still a lot to unpack, but was looking specifically for scenes that hint at Mother Suspiriorum.
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# ? Nov 11, 2018 07:57 |
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah, I came out feeling like I'd need to fully unpack it over a few viewings over a few years. Exactly how I feel. On one hand the entire doctor plot could have been removed entirely and I'm not sure the movie wouldn't have benefited from it. On the other hand I'm probably missing a vital thematic point in feeling that way. Similarly, the doctor being played by Tilda Swinton had to be of major significance, right? I was distracted every time he/she was on screen, but I also suspect my simpleton brain is missing something. I literally dreamed about this movie all night. Mark my words, 2018 is going to be looked back on and revered as one of the greatest years for horror.
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# ? Nov 11, 2018 17:50 |
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Yeah I don't know what was gained by the doctor being played by Tilda Swinton. Every time they were on screen I was just trying to figure out why I was looking at someone in old man makeup. Didn't know it was her until I got home.
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# ? Nov 11, 2018 17:57 |
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mary had a little clam posted:Not only am I curious how the Bader-Meinhof gang informs the themes of Suspiria The whole movie is about the transfer of power, and Baader-Meinhoff were trying to effect a transfer of power using fear, violence, and terrorism from within. The correlation (metaphor) is pretty straightforward from there. If anything, I don't think there's a whole lot to it. It works great, but it's not super complicated (not accusing anybody of being "dumb" or whatever if you don't get it either -- I just think it's a fairly simple metaphor so long as you understand the historical context). mary had a little clam posted:I'm also curious at the filmmaker's deliberate choice to use drab colors (but interesting textures) in opposition to the original's garish colors. I think it's as simple as the fact that he wanted a different aesthetic because there's no point in trying to be more Argento than Dario Argento. Also Luca Guadagnino loves Fassbinder movies and I think he was trying to consciously quote from them instead, because holy poo poo does this film ever look like a Fassbinder film. I think this is also probably why he got Ingrid Caven for the movie (she was one of Fassbinder's repertory players). EDIT -- in case anybody doesn't know the film history tie-in to that either, Udo Kier was also in Fassbinder's film circle and appeared in many of his films. He was not able to appear in one of his films because he was shooting a scene for the original "Suspiria". Fassbinder told Kier he was an idiot for appearing in an Italian horror film. InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Nov 12, 2018 |
# ? Nov 12, 2018 04:51 |
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Things that I noticed on the second watch: There's a prevalence of shots where the audiences' view of what characters are looking at are blocked, at least until Suspiriorum takes over. Suzy says, "I want to be the hands of this company." The insistence of the camera focusing on hands (and to a lesser extent, feet) doesn't necessarily preconfigure this line, but there's a lot of attention on extremities. Markos screams "It's not vanity, it's art" at Blanc the end, which kind of seems self-reflective especially given it's yelled by and at Tilda Swinton. Something I didn't notice on the first watch was the spell that the coven puts on the dancers at the celebratory dinner; they're constantly touching the faces of the dancers to bewitch them. Makes the spring-y arm decoration that's so obvious in the establishing shot of the table a bit of foreshadowing. Similarly, the first scene at the diner of just the coven having dinner has a voice over conversation, and I completely missed on my first watch that the voice over was actually a telepathic conversation between them all. Suzy becomes Suspiriorum at the end of Volk. She re-injures Sara so the ritual can take place, starts telepathically communicating with Blanc, and becomes instantly attuned to the coven's actions. This movie rules.
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# ? Nov 12, 2018 10:05 |
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I, Butthole posted:Similarly, the first scene at the diner of just the coven having dinner has a voice over conversation, and I completely missed on my first watch that the voice over was actually a telepathic conversation between them all. I believe this is also what was happening during the voting scene. I didn't catch on until the diner scene you mentioned.
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# ? Nov 12, 2018 16:29 |
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this movie kicked rear end
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# ? Nov 12, 2018 21:20 |
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InfiniteZero posted:The whole movie is about the transfer of power, and Baader-Meinhoff were trying to effect a transfer of power using fear, violence, and terrorism from within. The correlation (metaphor) is pretty straightforward from there. If anything, I don't think there's a whole lot to it. It works great, but it's not super complicated (not accusing anybody of being "dumb" or whatever if you don't get it either -- I just think it's a fairly simple metaphor so long as you understand the historical context). I didn't know the historical context of either of your points so this was much appreciated!
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# ? Nov 13, 2018 00:35 |
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Did anyone catch what Susie takes from the desk when she and Sara sneak into the office?
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# ? Nov 14, 2018 09:27 |
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Can you guys give me a general idea of how scary/gross this is? Roughly similar to the original or does it get more hardcore than that? My gf usually doesn’t like horror but will go with me to this if I promise not to traumatize her.
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# ? Nov 14, 2018 11:09 |
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nemesis_hub posted:Can you guys give me a general idea of how scary/gross this is? Roughly similar to the original or does it get more hardcore than that? My gf usually doesn’t like horror but will go with me to this if I promise not to traumatize her. It's much more of a psychological horror than the Argento version, but what physical horror is there is pretty gnarly and it doesn't shy away from showing fluids etc flowing about. There's a lot less removed violence than the Argento version - less close ups and obvious changes to effectswork - even though there's probably less overall violent scenes, it's a lot more personal and confronting.
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# ? Nov 14, 2018 11:23 |
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nemesis_hub posted:Can you guys give me a general idea of how scary/gross this is? Roughly similar to the original or does it get more hardcore than that? My gf usually doesn’t like horror but will go with me to this if I promise not to traumatize her. It gets intense and isn't going to win over a person who doesn't like horror anyway.
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# ? Nov 14, 2018 15:45 |
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# ? Mar 28, 2024 23:39 |
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nemesis_hub posted:Can you guys give me a general idea of how scary/gross this is? Roughly similar to the original or does it get more hardcore than that? My gf usually doesn’t like horror but will go with me to this if I promise not to traumatize her. The physical grossness isn't the main focus, but when it happens it's pretty loving twisted. I heard more gasps and "oh my god"s in my showing than I've ever heard. Plus it's an absolutely terrible example of horror for people who don't like horror. I say hard pass.
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# ? Nov 14, 2018 16:08 |