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MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Expired Vitamin posted:

I'm with Londo; I don't get the fuss about Rebo and Zooty.

That's the point though

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Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know
But Londo did get it.

Zooty Zoot Zoot!

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!
I wrapped up season 2 and got through the first episode of season 3. I'm not moving through this with the same momentum I had during season 1, but I'm still determined to finish it all by the end of 2018.

-Very disappointed in the way that Talia was written off. I know that all the characters were supposed to have "trap doors" in case they needed to leave like this one did, but this didn't feel foreshadowed or planned. (And of course the whole premise of the episode was that it was sudden and totally by surprise.) Plus I was just starting to get into the relationship with Ivanova.

-Kind of surprised that the Narn/Centauri war evolved the way it did. (I don't want to say "wrapped up" or "resolved" because it's still ongoing, but it has definitely changed tone.) I was expecting it to be a backdrop for more conflict throughout the series but it seems like that's maybe going to be de-emphasized.

-In the episode with the Vorlon inquisitor I was really hoping that the test would be for Delenn to throw off her manacles and say "gently caress this, I know I'm worthy". I got invested enough in that possibility that the actual outcome of the episode was a little disappointing. Also disappointing: I misheard the inquisitor's address when he was introduced and spent some time believing that he might be Sherlock Holmes.

-I feel like I should say something about Kosh in the garden but I've got nothing. I think the garden set is so clearly green-screened in comparison to the rest of the series that it's harder for me to take scenes there seriously. Which is a shame, because that was a good scene.

-Lennier is my beautiful, sweet, pure baby boy and I hope nothing ever harms him. Him tumbling over as the new ship jumped was adorable.

-Marcus's introduction to the series felt a little abrupt, like a new player joining an established RPG group and leveling up to match the party right away. I'm not saying he should have been slow-rolled onto the main cast, just that he seemed a little eager to show off his cool fighting stick loadout.

-Overall the first episode of the third season got everything off to a good start. It set up conflicts, established some dire stakes, but gave us some hope. Can't ask for more than that.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









I think Talia's actor jumped ship.

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!
I wondered if there was some real-life resentment from her or the scriptwriter that bled into the episode because the final scenes had a real visceral feeling of "gently caress you, I never cared about you, I'm leaving and you can't stop me". Or maybe it was just really well acted, I dunno.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

I think a little of column A and B. Basically the actor decided she was insensible and played hardball with her salary and JMS had the trap door and told her metaphorically to go gently caress herself.

Delsaber
Oct 1, 2013

This may or may not be correct.

dreadmojo posted:

I think Talia's actor jumped ship.

I vaguely remember years later she turned up as an anchor on CNN Headline News of all places and Jon Stewart made fun of her once. Unless that was a fever dream I had.

nashona
May 8, 2014

Though she be but little, she is fierce


Delsaber posted:

I vaguely remember years later she turned up as an anchor on CNN Headline News of all places and Jon Stewart made fun of her once. Unless that was a fever dream I had.

She did indeed. Also briefly married to Jerry Doyle. They have a son.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Delsaber posted:

I vaguely remember years later she turned up as an anchor on CNN Headline News of all places and Jon Stewart made fun of her once. Unless that was a fever dream I had.

I got curious.

https://www.cc.com/video-clips/mi0k05/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-headlines---this-is-cnn-

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Doctor Zero posted:

I think a little of column A and B. Basically the actor decided she was insensible and played hardball with her salary and JMS had the trap door and told her metaphorically to go gently caress herself.

Thompson's marriage to Doyle was disintegrating at that time too, and if you had to pick between them, Garibaldi was the one to keep.

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Midjack posted:

Thompson's marriage to Doyle was disintegrating at that time too, and if you had to pick between them, Garibaldi was the one to keep.

I keep seeing this, but "Divided Loyalties" was shot in early 1995, and Doyle and Thompson got married that year and divorced two years later, so the timing g doesn't add up.

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!

quote:

Lennier is my beautiful, sweet, pure baby boy and I hope nothing ever harms him. Him tumbling over as the new ship jumped was adorable.

I think I jinxed it. Beginning of the next episode, he gets critically injured in a bombing. He better pull through.

e: and of course he does. That was a great episode, got to be in my top 5 so far. I missed my train stop by being too engrossed with Londo and G'Kar trapped in an elevator.

wizzardstaff fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Nov 16, 2018

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I can hear you.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!





wizzardstaff posted:

e: and of course he does. That was a great episode, got to be in my top 5 so far. I missed my train stop by being too engrossed with Londo and G'Kar trapped in an elevator.

That is quite possibly the best single scene in the series.

There are a lot of other great scenes, but that particular one is transcendent.

Data Graham
Dec 28, 2009

📈📊🍪😋



Which isn't to say, like, it's all downhill from here or anything.

Just ... more like, that scene is pretty much why we're all here.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos

:stare: Wait, wait, wait, wait... her co-anchor was a journalist called Miles O'Brien!?!?

J33uk
Oct 24, 2005

Absurd Alhazred posted:

:stare: Wait, wait, wait, wait... her co-anchor was a journalist called Miles O'Brien!?!?

Even better he was very much their go to guy for space stuff.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos
Also love that innocent, boyish, pre-9/11 J-Stew thought that CNN had hit rock bottom then.

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!

ConfusedUs posted:

That is quite possibly the best single scene in the series.

There are a lot of other great scenes, but that particular one is transcendent.

That scene in particular was stellar, but it was a great episode in many places. Londo nervously telling jokes in the med bay in one long, continuous shot. Lennier enduring a close-talking human in the spaceport. Not only were these good character moments but they also snuck in some exposition for people rejoining the show at the start of a season.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

wizzardstaff posted:

I think I jinxed it. Beginning of the next episode, he gets critically injured in a bombing. He better pull through.

e: and of course he does. That was a great episode, got to be in my top 5 so far. I missed my train stop by being too engrossed with Londo and G'Kar trapped in an elevator.

I hear you, man.

Expired Vitamin
Jul 3, 2017

I remember reading somewhere that the trapdoor that they used for Talia Winters was originally meant as a main plot point for Lt Cmdr Takashima (the original XO from the pilot). JMS really built lots of agility into the B5 arc.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Expired Vitamin posted:

I remember reading somewhere that the trapdoor that they used for Talia Winters was originally meant as a main plot point for Lt Cmdr Takashima (the original XO from the pilot). JMS really built lots of agility into the B5 arc.

It was. With the original cast, Laurel Takashima was the Psi-Corps sleeper agent and it would have been her who shot Garibaldi, not his second.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






I kinda want a comic book version of the preproduction plan for Babylon 5, like that one that was made out of the original pre-cleaned-up version of the Star Wars script.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

McSpanky posted:

I kinda want a comic book version of the preproduction plan for Babylon 5, like that one that was made out of the original pre-cleaned-up version of the Star Wars script.

On which note, William Gibson's unproduced Alien 3 script is being adapted right now. #1 came out on Wednesday.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer

Jedit posted:

On which note, William Gibson's unproduced Alien 3 script is being adapted right now. #1 came out on Wednesday.

Holy poo poo, Christmas is coming!

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Jedit posted:

It was. With the original cast, Laurel Takashima was the Psi-Corps sleeper agent and it would have been her who shot Garibaldi, not his second.

I haven't checked this myself, but this is allegedly foreshadowed all the way back in The Gathering, where an Earthforce access code is used to let the would-be assassin do something or other, and it's Takashima's code or hand or whatever in the shot.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

Lemniscate Blue posted:

I haven't checked this myself, but this is allegedly foreshadowed all the way back in The Gathering, where an Earthforce access code is used to let the would-be assassin do something or other, and it's Takashima's code or hand or whatever in the shot.

Yes, it's her code. Additionally, she's repeatedly said to play strictly "by the book" but we find out she has a secret coffee plant in the garden area, which is against regs. These were the initial clues.

Talia would presumably have gotten triggered and then saved by the recording Kosh and the VCR made of her, if she hadn't been escape-hatched.

Platonicsolid
Nov 17, 2008

Narsham posted:

Talia would presumably have gotten triggered and then saved by the recording Kosh and the VCR made of her, if she hadn't been escape-hatched.

Which sort of begs the question why the Vorlons would care about Talia personally. Or would Kosh do it just for giggles?

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
It's noted at least once or twice that our Kosh has an interest in humans that borders on the unseemly, isn't it? Plus that psychic exchange where he manifests as Sheridan's Dad. I can imagine him being that kind of sentimental, as well as paternal.

Platonicsolid
Nov 17, 2008

Bieeanshee posted:

It's noted at least once or twice that our Kosh has an interest in humans that borders on the unseemly, isn't it? Plus that psychic exchange where he manifests as Sheridan's Dad. I can imagine him being that kind of sentimental, as well as paternal.

Eh, I always felt that was unearned, less shown than told. But then I never found the Vorlon motivations that coherent.

wizzardstaff
Apr 6, 2018

Zorch! Splat! Pow!
I am always happy to see Brad Dourif, so this mindwipe episode was good.

Death of personality is still inhumane though.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Narsham posted:

Yes, it's her code. Additionally, she's repeatedly said to play strictly "by the book" but we find out she has a secret coffee plant in the garden area, which is against regs. These were the initial clues.

I don't remember that. It's Ivanova who has the coffee plant.

Bieeanshee posted:

It's noted at least once or twice that our Kosh has an interest in humans that borders on the unseemly, isn't it? Plus that psychic exchange where he manifests as Sheridan's Dad. I can imagine him being that kind of sentimental, as well as paternal.

Kosh is a lot nicer and more patient with the younger races than the other Vorlons, yes. I'm not sure, though, that he chose to manifest as Sheridan's father as much as that is how Sheridan's dreaming mind interpreted the message.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

I’m still watching the first season and just did TKO. It’s still mostly cornball stuff for the a-story that’s just a bit more competent than Star Trek would manage, but I’m impressed they did what was probably the most accurate depiction of Russian culture or people sitting shiva on 90s tv. A lesser show would have put holograms on the rabbi or some dumb poo poo. Also impressed that they talk so casually about a revival of radical neo-communism so close to the end of the Soviet Union.

Now I’m sad that Harlan Ellison never wrote that crazy 90s-looking book. I’m also thrilled by the tentacle-faced mask guy watching the fight at the end who just does a double thumbs-up the whole time.

I’m watching the next episode now and holy poo poo: David Warner and EB Farnum in the same episode!

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Bieeanshee posted:

It's noted at least once or twice that our Kosh has an interest in humans that borders on the unseemly, isn't it? Plus that psychic exchange where he manifests as Sheridan's Dad. I can imagine him being that kind of sentimental, as well as paternal.

"Unseemly?"

He wasn't the Vorlon mind raping and treating Lyta like garbage. It's pretty clear that OG Kosh was an optimist and idealist that strongly believed in the ability of the younger races to become better. The rest of the Vorlons were basically right wing neocons who decided to genocide the galaxy since people didn't agree with them.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
Sorry, unseemly from the perspective of the other vorlons, for exactly those sorts of reasons.

Vavrek
Mar 2, 2013

I like your style hombre, but this is no laughing matter. Assault on a police officer. Theft of police property. Illegal possession of a firearm. FIVE counts of attempted murder. That comes to... 29 dollars and 40 cents. Cash, cheque, or credit card?

Jedit posted:

I don't remember that. It's Ivanova who has the coffee plant.

It was transposed onto Ivanova after Takashima was replaced. They give, I think, basically identical explanations. (Like, word-for-word, "JMS just copied that part of the script" identical.)

What I'm trying to recall is what the original plan was for Ivanova. I think I remember something about her being a junior (Cowin-ish?) officer who developed a relationship with Takashima, which would have the same betrayal aspects as what happened with Talia.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






Platonicsolid posted:

Which sort of begs the question why the Vorlons would care about Talia personally. Or would Kosh do it just for giggles?

I thought that had something to do with Ironheart's "gift" and Kosh's interest in the development of the younger races, like he was making a backup of her to compare to later stages of human psionic evolution or something, but of course that all got flushed with her character.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Platonicsolid posted:

Which sort of begs the question why the Vorlons would care about Talia personally. Or would Kosh do it just for giggles?

The Vorlons didn't give two shits about Talia. Kosh did it because he actually cares for the lesser races. Just like how he also appeared to G'Kar as his father lashed to a tree, to give him a moment of clarity and insight when he needed it most.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Jedit posted:

On which note, William Gibson's unproduced Alien 3 script is being adapted right now. #1 came out on Wednesday.

Oh god I always wanted to find that and then the internet came around and I found it and then really wish I hadn’t. It’s awful.

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Maelstache
Feb 25, 2013

gOTTA gO fAST

Doctor Zero posted:

Oh god I always wanted to find that and then the internet came around and I found it and then really wish I hadn’t. It’s awful.

The script I'd want to see adapted is the Vincent Ward space monks version, it was basically The Name Of The Rose with xenomorphs.

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