|
Lots of english academics aren't left wing at all, what the hell
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 06:00 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:42 |
|
vandalism posted:So is this guy a rare non left literature professor? Is he critical of this... hermeneutic? I'm kinda lost here. He hates Foucault which is understandable.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 06:06 |
|
He's my kind of guy.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 06:11 |
|
A human heart posted:Lots of english academics aren't left wing at all, what the hell I've had a few, I suppose. I feel like it's really safe to be left leaning in any humanities field.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 06:34 |
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:No reading of The Tempest was too contrived or masturbatory for my sophomore Shakespeare class to turn into an hour-long tangent. This is reminding me of my high-school Shakespeare class and listening to a classmate very earnestly explain how Othello killing Desdemona is kind of like cleaning the toilet, because, like, it sucks and you don't want to do it, but you have to, y'know? Frankly, I think it's a fair reading
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 11:12 |
|
vandalism posted:I've had a few, I suppose. I feel like it's really safe to be left leaning in any humanities field. It is a safe move to not be a brainless oval office
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 12:13 |
|
vandalism posted:So is this guy a rare non left literature professor? Is he critical of this... hermeneutic? I'm kinda lost here. That quote is from Richard Rorty who was a liberal but who thought injecting identity politics and cultural studies into literature analysis was destroying the field and creating a lot of irrelevant readings. While I enjoyed a lot of the English courses I took I learned the most from that professors class. Other instructors who allowed identity politics to influence their teaching seemed more interested in making connections between the text and current political movements and struggles as opposed to understanding the works on their own. Maybe they felt that gave the English field some relevance as a tool for discussing current social trends since it couldn’t provide the applied skills in the workforce of other majors. Ccs fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 17, 2018 |
# ? Nov 17, 2018 19:39 |
|
Ccs posted:That quote is from Richard Rorty who was a liberal but who thought injecting identity politics and cultural studies into literature analysis was destroying the field and creating a lot of irrelevant readings. Sounds like a good class and a good dude.
|
# ? Nov 17, 2018 21:02 |
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:now you're getting it nah i completely understood the entirety of the argument you are making and the theory behind it but it takes a narrow understanding of human history to argue it (mostly that of the last half century and mostly western at that). largely no, it doesn't matter if you say ts elliot was writing about lobster or crabs when he wrote about ragged claws scuttling across floors of silent seas (i will die if i ever read one more paper on this subject it's dumb and i don't care) or that the mountains of madness is about penguin migration. for most of these largely inconsequential takes its left solely on the reader to make a judgement. however to say that's true of all things is rather silly. society as a whole/or societal institutions have and had a large part in determining if a reading is wrong, bad, inconsequential, etc. (mostly we care about decisions that decide when a reading is wrong) and have a larger say in this. larger examples being from a mostly western source: high court rulings and decisions made by roman catholic church council's.
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 04:36 |
|
you seem to really want it to be wrong but cannot come up with a reason stronger than you want it to be wrong also lol at the interpretation of it being "narrow" because it only considers the last 50 years as if the last 50 was not informed by the previous 5000. The conclusions of modern criticism come from the extended historical debate. It's not separate from it. Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Nov 19, 2018 |
# ? Nov 19, 2018 04:41 |
|
im not saying the theory stated behind it is narrow but to considering only the recent theory as the only valid part is narrow especially since it's a continued debate that hasn't concluded and probs never will be as long as people care about this poo poo
jagstag fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Nov 19, 2018 |
# ? Nov 19, 2018 04:53 |
|
jagstag posted:considering only the recent theory as the only valid part is narrow especially since it's a continued debate that hasn't concluded and probs never will be as long as people care about this poo poo Please, for the love of god, read a book
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 13:42 |
|
That is good advice as long as it's not a book that Mel recommends
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 13:51 |
|
jagstag posted:im not saying the theory stated behind it is narrow but to considering only the recent theory as the only valid part is narrow especially since it's a continued debate that hasn't concluded and probs never will be as long as people care about this poo poo
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 14:03 |
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:Your mistake here is caring about this poo poo. false caring about literature and criticism is v. cool
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 14:37 |
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:Your mistake here is caring about this poo poo. the thing is im not actually arguing in good faith here. was invited to cover critical reading theory and critique as it applies to reading histories for an acquaintance's class next week and im extremely out of practice w/ explaining why the arguments i posted prior are dumb to brad the military vet and ethel the bible studies major who i know are going to use these arguments because i have heard these before. so i kinda do have to care about this poo poo :/
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 17:33 |
|
i can never escape academia
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 17:35 |
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:you seem to really want it to be wrong but cannot come up with a reason stronger than you want it to be wrong do you ever read the things you argue against or make a guess based on what you think a person might say
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 17:43 |
|
CestMoi posted:do you ever read the things you argue against or make a guess based on what you think a person might say Considering I cited structuralists when I am a post-structuralist yes
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 17:50 |
|
jagstag posted:the thing is im not actually arguing in good faith here. was invited to cover critical reading theory and critique as it applies to reading histories for an acquaintance's class next week and im extremely out of practice w/ explaining why the arguments i posted prior are dumb to brad the military vet and ethel the bible studies major who i know are going to use these arguments because i have heard these before. so i kinda do have to care about this poo poo :/
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 18:25 |
|
I demand to be cited jag
|
# ? Nov 19, 2018 18:26 |
|
I have a question for you, literature thread. It's about Anna Karenina and I don't intend to post any spoilers, but if you definitely don't want to have any idea about the book going in, skip this post I guess. I'm about 150 pages or 20 chapters in. So far I've read some exhaustive (to put it as mildly as I can) descriptions of emotions certain individuals have upon meeting certain other individuals. In fact, the majority of the text so far has been allotted to these descriptions, while I've yet to see a single sentence describing the environment, the society at large or even the society of comfortably wealthy aristocrats that the characters introduced thus far practically all belong to. What's more, not a single word has been dedicated to describing the geopolitical or Russian internal political setting, the economic environment, the historical setting, nothing. But I sure have read a lot about quickened pulses and involuntary blushes and conflicting emotions. It seems Tolstoi just assumes the reader is familiar with urban elite life in late imperial Russia. My question is... I have about a thousand more pages to go. Can I expect anything but more of the same? If this were a typical novel published some time in the past half century, at 150 pages I'd be well on my way to the climax of the central crisis. Quite possibly I'm approaching this from the wrong angle, but so far I haven't felt challenged, I don't feel I've learned anything, and frankly I've barely been entertained. I feel like I'm reading an exceptionally slow-paced romance novel and nothing more, but this is supposed to be one of the enduring legends of world literature. Help me out here.
|
# ? Nov 22, 2018 05:38 |
|
Yeah, there's a hell of a lot more than that waiting for you, including society and economics. Keep reading.
Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Nov 22, 2018 |
# ? Nov 22, 2018 05:48 |
|
Well, that was a fun series of disasters, upto and including a torn ligament and hair line fracture. Nonetheless The Death Of Ivan Ilyich is done. So, my stream of consciousness thoughts while reading. - - - - I like how up front the book is with the casual awfulness of people. 'Ohhhhh I might be the one to get a promotion! But, ah poo poo, I've got to waste my afternoon at the widows house.' "His face was handome and above all more dignified then when he was alive.' It seems like this is mostly going to be about death and the living. Living well, regrets and so on. Okay, I don't know if this is intentionally funny or unintentionally funny, but the idea of Pyotr just bowing and crossing himself to every little thing is hilarious. "There was no reason for supposing this incident would hinder them spending the evening agreeably." Cold, man. I feel like this is what would happen at a funeral by and for middle managers. Little substance and endless bowing to convention. Haha. The worst Pyotr feels during the whole thing is when it turns out he might not be able to play bridge today. "Ivans life had been most simple and most ordinary, and therefore most terrible." I'm sensing this will be a theme. I'm really not sure what to make of Ivan. He really does seem like the avatar of middle management. "Matrimony... was not always conductive to the pleasures and amenities of life." Another theme? Selfishness or something like that? A lot of the langauge used is beautiful in it's starkness. "These were islets at which they anchored for a while and then set out upo that ocean of veiled hostility." "In reality, it was just what is usually seen in houses of people of moderate means who want to appear rich." Ice burn. Also, yeah definetly a theme. This got depressing in a hurry. It's a bit similiar to Lincoln in the Bardo in a way. "Whenever the thought occured to him that it all resulted from his not living as he ought to have done, he at once recalled the correctness of his whole life and dismissed so strange an idea." Ouch. - - - - I liked it, despite how depressive it was. It was satisfying in a way to have the bullshit of such a life fully examined and shown to be ludicrous in it's way. Buuuut... I don't know, it also felt a little... propaganda-y? Like the author was sitting on his high horse and lecturing me. Maybe that's unfair and cynical though. Okay, that's another dive into Russian Lit over and done with. I now need to settle on the next thing to try. Hopefully something a little more light-hearted.
|
# ? Nov 23, 2018 17:57 |
|
OscarDiggs posted:I liked it, despite how depressive it was. It was satisfying in a way to have the bullshit of such a life fully examined and shown to be ludicrous in it's way. Buuuut... I don't know, it also felt a little... propaganda-y? Like the author was sitting on his high horse and lecturing me. Maybe that's unfair and cynical though.
|
# ? Nov 23, 2018 18:05 |
|
OscarDiggs posted:I liked it, despite how depressive it was. It was satisfying in a way to have the bullshit of such a life fully examined and shown to be ludicrous in it's way. Buuuut... I don't know, it also felt a little... propaganda-y? Like the author was sitting on his high horse and lecturing me. Maybe that's unfair and cynical though. Yeah that's Tolstoy for you. Especially late-life Tolstoy.
|
# ? Nov 23, 2018 18:10 |
|
OscarDiggs posted:Well, that was a fun series of disasters, upto and including a torn ligament and hair line fracture. Nonetheless The Death Of Ivan Ilyich is done. So, my stream of consciousness thoughts while reading. I also recently finished Ivan Ilyich, and I'll openly admit it's the first work of Tolstoi I've read as an adult. Like you say, there was a lot of comedy and sick burns at the very beginning, and I think that, considering the tone of the latter half of the book, the light-hearted tone is meant as a warning: Go ahead, laugh it up, but your comfortable, oblivious, self-centered life could turn to utter despair at any moment. Tolstoi paints a vivid picture of middle management life, as you put it, and I certainly came out of it with a better idea of what the Russian imperial bureaucracy might have looked like from the inside. What I'm not sure of is whether this was meant as criticism of the lifestyle described, or if it was just to set the scene for the protagonist's later suffering, and to explain the horrible doubts that beset him on his deathbed. My point is, I don't really know anything about Tolstoi, how mature he was as a writer at this point, or what 'phase' he was in (if he had those). Maybe social criticism was a thing for him, or maybe this story was mostly intended to showcase his skill at depicting powerful emotions and their origins. Or maybe he is moralizing, showing us what a miserable, cowardly prick Ivan was in life. In any case, I came out of it mostly impressed with the powerful contrast between the first and second halves, and with the skill with which he describes emotional turmoil.
|
# ? Nov 23, 2018 18:26 |
|
immolationsex posted:My point is, I don't really know anything about Tolstoi, how mature he was as a writer at this point, or what 'phase' he was in (if he had those). Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 23, 2018 |
# ? Nov 23, 2018 19:14 |
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:I don't have the time for the effortpost that this deserves, but he was very much in his "mature" "phase" at that point. His spiritual crisis in 1879 turned him into a radical mystic and social activist who eventually had his own religious movement. His writings at this stage were a direct influence on Gandhi's campaign of non-violent resistance. I would recommend Confession and The Kingdom of God Is Within You as essential late Tolstoy. (Also I realize 'phase' isn't the word I was looking for; I meant 'period,' as in, Picasso's Blue Period. But that's not really important.)
|
# ? Nov 23, 2018 20:10 |
A human heart posted:Lots of english academics aren't left wing at all, what the hell in the humanities? not anymore. some of the emerti, sure, but thats it
|
|
# ? Nov 24, 2018 18:09 |
|
immolationsex posted:This post is going to be spoilerrific. I'll take the fact that I was able to pick up on as little as I did as suitable improvement for my level, because I didn't get much if anything of this from my first reading. But thinking on it, it does make a lot of sense!
|
# ? Nov 25, 2018 13:32 |
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:I demand to be cited jag didn't because your arguments we're pretty weak and also i hate you
|
# ? Nov 27, 2018 21:58 |
jagstag posted:didn't because your arguments we're pretty weak and also i hate you The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn: your arguments we're pretty weak and also i hate you
|
|
# ? Nov 27, 2018 21:58 |
|
chernobyl kinsman posted:The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn: your arguments we're pretty weak and also i hate you Yes please.
|
# ? Nov 27, 2018 22:01 |
|
Okay. This dip into Russian Literature has (EDIT: Very much so!) been interesting and eye-opening, and I'm eager to go back to it again at some point, but right now I think it's time to dip back out and try another new thing. At this moment I am considering "A Confederary of Dunces" quite heaviliy, with the other options still there in the back of my mind. Also, I managed to get my hands on a few books from family, which included "A Scarlet Letter", "To Kill a Mockingbird", "Heart of Darkness" and 2 different versions of "The Oddysey". As always, feel free to tell me my chosen book is a bad choice and to suggest something different. I'll decide good and proper some time tommorow. OscarDiggs fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Nov 28, 2018 |
# ? Nov 28, 2018 16:42 |
|
jagstag posted:didn't because your arguments we're pretty weak says the guy who pulled a "sorry that was my little brother using my account" OscarDiggs posted:Okay. I mean, those are very different directions. I would recommend identifying what wore you out with Russian lit and trying to read something that contrasts with it
|
# ? Nov 28, 2018 16:44 |
|
Mel Mudkiper posted:says the guy who pulled a "sorry that was my little brother using my account" The Russian stuff was very... grand, I suppose. Even the short stories were deep and weighty. I wouldn't say it wore on me exactly, but starting another Deep and Weighty book right away would have started to. And I am not necessarially saying I'm going to read them all those options straight away; just that they are there if people think they might be better to read. In that vein though, Dunces looks like it's going to be slightly more upbeat and funnier, a bit like a Twain book, which is why I'm think of settling for it right now after the Russian stuff.
|
# ? Nov 28, 2018 16:51 |
|
I mean, Dunces sounds like a good pick especially because the protagonist is basically a pretender version of the weighty Russian thinkers anyways
|
# ? Nov 28, 2018 16:52 |
|
OscarDiggs posted:This dip into Russian Literature hasn't been interesting and eye-opening, OscarDiggs posted:At this moment I am considering "A Confederary of Dunces" quite heaviliy, with the other options still there in the back of my mind. Also, I managed to get my hands on a few books from family, which included "A Scarlet Letter", "To Kill a Mockingbird", "Heart of Darkness" and 2 different versions of "The Oddysey".
|
# ? Nov 28, 2018 17:03 |
|
|
# ? Mar 28, 2024 21:42 |
|
Oh wow I meant it was! It was interesting and eye opening! It must have autocompleted as hasn't. My bad for not checking! I definitely intend to go back to Russian Lit at some point! EDIT: I just need a short break is all. OscarDiggs fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 28, 2018 |
# ? Nov 28, 2018 17:17 |