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I see - I kind of liked how MacGyver was an action hero who pointedly never used guns.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:40
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I hated the Force Awakens and didn't care much for TLK but it's exhausting to try and defend my lack of enjoyment so I tend to stay out of those discussions at this point. People automatically assume I hate women and minorities and I shouldn't have to dispel those accusations because I didn't care for some movies.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:41
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My issues with The Last Jedi are less it feeling tonally out of place with the rest of the series (which it does if you're thinking only in OT terms, but lol whether you like the prequels (I can't stand them) or not they exist and their tone is a valid route to go in movies going forward imo) and more it having tone issues within the movie itself. There's a lot of tonal whiplash in a movie that feels overly long and I think the casino poo poo was awful and shouldn't have been in it at all. But it has sooooo much good I can't help enjoying the experience of watching the movie overall.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:49
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I have a hard time hating movies or tv shows, or at least I have a hard time getting angry at them. Obviously there's things I don't enjoy or don't like but I don't see any sense in getting hung up on them. I don't see the sense in going on and on about something I didn't like because it would just upset me and how would that profit* me? No, I much prefer to leave the things I disliked to one side and focus on the things I did like. I think that lets me talk about things I didn't like soberly, because I'm not losing my temper over them. Wasn't always the case, of course. Oddly enough, the things I do sometimes find myself going on about are things I didn't like from back when I did get a bit hung up on them like Heroes or the fifth season of Spooks.  * Disclaimer: I am well aware that people making five-hour three-part YouTube videos about how much they hated Batman v Superman or something have probably made a few quid off them.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:00
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A study showed 13 Reasons Why raised suicide risk among vulnerable teens https://twitter.com/i/moments/1065187490825302016 It’s like that thing I’ve been saying the entire time
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Nov 21, 2018 17:03
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I kind of thought people didn't like The Last Jedi because it supposedly ruined the character of Luke as a hero when as far as I could tell he wasn't really that much of a hero in the first place. I mean he had has moments but mostly he was whiny and impulsive throughout the original movies and it makes sense that the moment he had any kind of real crisis of faith as it were he'd turn away from all that stuff. Also I didn't care because like mostly throughout all the films the Jedis kind of suck, are mostly terrible at their jobs, and are kind of assholes. So turning away from that is probably a smart move.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:19
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X-O posted:So turning away from that is probably a smart move. Did you miss the coda?
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Nov 21, 2018 17:22
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Not sure what you mean by that, but I just kind of mean the Jedi as a group. I'm not really up on the lore but can you be a good guy with Force powers without being a Jedi? Kind of like rejecting organized religion but still being religious.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:27
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X-O posted:I kind of thought people didn't like The Last Jedi because it supposedly ruined the character of Luke as a hero when as far as I could tell he wasn't really that much of a hero in the first place. I mean he had has moments but mostly he was whiny and impulsive throughout the original movies and it makes sense that the moment he had any kind of real crisis of faith as it were he'd turn away from all that stuff. Also I didn't care because like mostly throughout all the films the Jedis kind of suck, are mostly terrible at their jobs, and are kind of assholes. So turning away from that is probably a smart move. What I don't like is everything else. I've long felt that you could literally remove every scene in that movie that does not involve the characters of Luke, Rey, and Kylo Ren and it would not change the narrative of the film whatsoever. It's the longest Star Wars film and so much of it is forced, aggravating B plots.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:27
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Nate RFB posted:I couldn't care less about the changes, if you want to call it that, to Luke/the Jedi/whatever. I don't think it's an especially strong or compelling narrative choice but it makes it work well enough and I can see the throughline as to why the story in that movie could use that effectively as a plot choice. Star Wars has always thrown up its hands regarding the Jedi and the force and adapt to whatever is most convenient to the current story being told, and this is no different to me. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The movie just needed a better editor imo. e: It also would have been nice if Finn had a plot I gave a gently caress about but alas
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Nov 21, 2018 17:32
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X-O posted:Not sure what you mean by that, but I just kind of mean the Jedi as a group. I'm not really up on the lore but can you be a good guy with Force powers without being a Jedi? Kind of like rejecting organized religion but still being religious. I've only seen the first two trilogies casually and have no idea about all the crazy amounts of stuff beyond that but my impression was always that The Force is a thing you can manipulate based on your genes or whatever and the Jedis are just the monks who train you how to do it and to have some kind of code not to abuse it. So like, the implication seemed to be that you COULD be "agnostic" but if no one ever trained you you probably wouldn't get very good and if you trained and then left you were more susceptible to abusing your unrestrained super powers. You know... abusing your powers in your own selfish way instead of the institutional, political way the Jedis kind of seem to.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:34
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Personally I didn't like TLJ because it kept going for emotional beats that weren't earned (particularly in the latter half) and the internal logic of the movie made no sense. I was happy to see the Jedi and Luke being put through the wringer and forced to examine their actions and their culpability. That's a good move. A good writer could have made a lot of interesting headway with regards to those sorts of points. Instead it's all thrown away at the end. The big moment of 'let the past conflicts all die' falls completely flat because it's followed by 'we'll start by killing all your friends.' And then instead of evolving past the existing conflict and moving on to something new, perhaps an end to 'all these star wars' that we're all so tired of, we just get what amounts to a reset. Back to Rebels vs. Empire, pure Good vs. pure Evil. Nothing changed, nothing is resolved, none of the last 8 movies even mattered. Instead, we are shown that Star Wars is an endless Ying Yang of constant conflict where the character names change but all the journeys remain the same. There's no room for nuance, there's no room for examination. If you try, TLJ shows, you just fall back into the same old patterns. That may be in some sense realistic with regards to how human beings fall into the same sort of patterns, but watching the same thing over and over again is not entertainment, nor is it interesting storytelling. At this point it's just exhausting. I haven't had interest in Star Wars for a while, I've just been watching them because Star Wars was so culturally relevant that I felt I was forced to. Thanks to TLJ, I no longer feel it necessary. So in some sense I cheer TLJ. Yay! You did it! You destroyed Star Wars's cultural stranglehold. We're free, at last.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:35
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The last season of The Clone Wars covers that with Asohka. Basically, she is framed for a bombing/terror attack and at the end basically says gently caress off to the Jedi Order. She gets her own canon novel, as well as a follow up in Rebels, where she is an early leader of the resistance who is basically a non Jedi, but will help train force users in the Jedi way (i.e. basically use your powers for good).
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Nov 21, 2018 17:39
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Escobarbarian posted:People who don’t like Last Jedi shouldn’t be allowed to express their opinions tbh look what you've done
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Nov 21, 2018 17:41
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Yeah, pretty much my main issue with it and the tone. I loved so many of the ideas Rian Johnson came up with, but the execution was sloppy. I think Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver and Mark Hamill's performances still sold the material to me, despite it feeling like it needed to be built to better. But I imagine what those performances could have been with a script more focused on that story, without all the hit or miss broad comedy or pointless (and confusing timeline wise tbh) casino/etc plotline, and that's what disappoints me about the movie. So much potential and it just felt like a waste, while still being enjoyable for the most part.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:43
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Regy Rusty posted:look what you've done Turns out I was right!
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Nov 21, 2018 17:49
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I'm only a casual star wars person, but the Last Jedi felt like a middle tier Marvel Movie. Not actively bad, not great, but a perfectly serviceable blockbuster. Force awakens was poo poo because it was a blatant remake of the first star wars movie with a palette swap essentially and a collection of fan service checkboxes.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:49
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The Lord Bude posted:I'm only a casual star wars person, but the Last Jedi felt like a middle tier Marvel Movie. Not actively bad, not great, but a perfectly serviceable blockbuster. Force awakens was poo poo because it was a blatant remake of the first star wars movie with a palette swap essentially and a collection of fan service checkboxes. I see it both ways. That's a perfectly valid criticism, but I can also see why they did that, as a way to basically "ease" old fans into the new universe.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:54
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All Star Wars is actually terrible.
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Nov 21, 2018 18:05
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BrandonGK posted:Breaking into this movie audience discussion with some more tv revival news. OH MY GOD YES PLEASE BE GOOD
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Nov 21, 2018 18:19
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Interrupting TLJ chat to drop my Youtube recs: - Honest Trailers: Yes, the humour can often be rote and predictable but it's still fun when they slam a movie you love and it's an easy commitment - Being The Elite: A bunch of pro-wrestlers make a half-travel documentary, half-TV show which includes such delights as someone getting possessed, someone else with brain trauma that makes them think they're Randy Savage and the murder of a famous big dick wrestler - The Great War/World War Two: A week-by-week realtime documentary series on the World Wars. Fascinating stuff. - Zero Punctuation: I am trash - What Culture Gaming lists: The only list content on Youtube I've found to be regularly funny while also occasionally teaching me new things about video games - Newsbroke: Sadly finished now but there's two years of amazing hard-left political satire in the John Oliver mold
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Nov 21, 2018 18:52
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ashpanash posted:Thanks to TLJ, I no longer feel it necessary. So in some sense I cheer TLJ. Yay! You did it! You destroyed Star Wars's cultural stranglehold. We're free, at last. I don't want to get into the weeds on TLJ but yeah, it's this. The next movie needs to right to ship in a major way for me to get interested in star wars mainline movies again. I'm not mad about it, I'm just not invested in it. I didn't completely hate Solo either, it was leagues better than Rogue One at least. I'd be fine if they just did one-off movies in the setting, but that's not why Disney coughed up $4 billion.
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Nov 21, 2018 18:52
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X-O posted:I don't really get the controversy around The Last Jedi. I'm not really a big fan of the series, just a casual watcher and it seemed to me to be about as of the same quality as all the other Star Wars films? The only one I think stands out above the others is Rogue One. It has some of the best space battles and the least amount of the Jedi stuff. My personal theory, putting aside the people who just hate it for culture war reasons (which is a lot of them), is that people are just really mad that their fan theories turned out completely wrong. They spent 2 years theorycrafting about Rey's parents and Snoke's origin, only for the movie to tell them those things don't matter.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:09
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Someone’s opinion on TLJ basically tells you if they’re just a Star Wars / genre fan or actually like......a fan of good movies
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Nov 21, 2018 19:20
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Lurdiak posted:My personal theory, putting aside the people who just hate it for culture war reasons (which is a lot of them), is that people are just really mad that their fan theories turned out completely wrong. They spent 2 years theorycrafting about Rey's parents and Snoke's origin, only for the movie to tell them those things don't matter. You're allowed to have your own personal theories and stuff, but you've got more than a few people above this post explaining their reasons, and their reasons have nothing to do with this theory of yours. Do you think that maybe you should update your theory? It's not that I think your theory doesn't explain some reactions to the movie, it's that I think it's way too broad, and you've been directly presented with evidence that it's not decent enough to be a good catch-all theory. And thus when you present it as such, it makes it seem as if you're looking down on everyone who posted their own reasoning. I don't think that's your intention, but I do think it comes across that way.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:23
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Escobarbarian posted:Someone’s opinion on TLJ basically tells you if they’re just a Star Wars / genre fan or actually like......a fan of good movies lmao I think that's a bit much Lurdiak posted:My personal theory, putting aside the people who just hate it for culture war reasons (which is a lot of them), is that people are just really mad that their fan theories turned out completely wrong. They spent 2 years theorycrafting about Rey's parents and Snoke's origin, only for the movie to tell them those things don't matter.  I loved that Rey's parents were drunk nobodies, and Snoke got murked, but I still think it's a mostly bad movie.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:25
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esperterra posted:lmao I think that's a bit much haha it was that or something about people only hate the casino sequence because none of the major characters in it are white
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Nov 21, 2018 19:31
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esperterra posted:lmao I think that's a bit much Every single conversation I've had with someone who doesn't like The Last Jedi in real life just ends up being them parroting the same 3 or 4 dumb plot nitpicks they picked up from a Buzzfeed article, saying what the movie "should have been", and then a confused response when I dive into anything beyond a surface-level read of the film. That isn't to say that there aren't legitimate arguments against the film's quality or that all folks who dislike the movie exclusively refuse to engage with films beyond the surface. Just that, you know, anecdotally, outside of these boards, that's absolutely my experience. They also tend to be really into Marvel movies.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:31
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Escobarbarian posted:Someone’s opinion on TLJ basically tells you if they’re just a Star Wars / genre fan or actually like......a fan of good movies
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Nov 21, 2018 19:34
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I loved TLJ because when you don't invest in it's "importance in childhoods" or whatever and just let it ride it was a super fun and visually gorgeous blockbuster kind of film. Anyway, has anyone else watched Atypical on Netflix? It's really good. I just finished binging season 2
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Nov 21, 2018 19:34
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Escobarbarian posted:haha it was that or something about people only hate the casino sequence because none of the major characters in it are white
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Nov 21, 2018 19:35
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I've been a fan of Star Wars since I was a child and still consider the OT some of my favorite movies of all time and I thought TLJ was loving terrible hth Name one major thing you didn’t like about it and what exactly about it put you off.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:35
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Nate RFB posted:Jesus that movie has broken people's brains. 
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Nov 21, 2018 19:36
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feedmyleg posted:Every single conversation I've had with someone who doesn't like The Last Jedi in real life just ends up being them parroting the same 3 or 4 dumb plot nitpicks they picked up from a Buzzfeed article, saying what the movie "should have been", and then a confused response when I dive into anything beyond a surface-level read of the film. This post's bookends amused me because... drat it, you guys are making me consider putting off my planned viewing of Infinity War tonight and instead finally getting around to Force/Last Jedi just so I can have an opinion before the derail ends.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:36
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STAC Goat posted:drat it, you guys are making me consider putting off my planned viewing of Infinity War tonight and instead finally getting around to Force/Last Jedi just so I can have an opinion before the derail ends. Just watch all three. Inject the mouse directly into your blood stream.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:37
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To turn back into TV talk, I am planning my TV shows while I cook tomorrow. So what are the best Thanksgiving episodes ofnTB shows. I plan on watching the Bob's Burgers Thanksgiving epidoes, as well as drinking and talking to the turkey. I also have HIMYM Slap Bet and subsequent Slapsgiving episodes. Definitely going to have the "he gave him the knife!" episode of West Wing and maybe others. Anyone else have some good Thanksgiving recommendations?
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Nov 21, 2018 19:40
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esperterra posted:
Okay yes THIS was the best part of the film because of the white nerd rage that loving erupted because now Jedi's weren't super special angel people and literally any garbage human could be one.
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Nov 21, 2018 19:45
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Nate RFB posted:Jesus that movie has broken people's brains. Sometimes I forget that the internet is so buck wild saying the dumbest thing you can think of as an obvious joke doesn’t always work out
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Nov 21, 2018 20:03
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ashpanash posted:You're allowed to have your own personal theories and stuff, but you've got more than a few people above this post explaining their reasons, and their reasons have nothing to do with this theory of yours. Do you think that maybe you should update your theory? I was talking about general audiences not any individual person's reaction. Everyone is free to like or dislike a given movie. Some people like DC movies for some reason.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:03
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Lurdiak posted:Some people like DC movies for some reason. Citation needed.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:08
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