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Devil's advocate also doesn't really work when numbers are the subject.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:23
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Was it in this thread or somewhere else that someone posted a long-ish article about the fact that "high-end" home audio kit is often demonstrably inferior to much cheaper gear because audiophiles generally tend to reject any solid, well-performing, affordable engineering - the best example of which will forever be audiophiles rejecting the Technics SL-1200mkwhatever and buying belt-driven turntables instead. ...oh and anything with tubes instead of transistors.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:25
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Yeah I have a 500$ dac amp that has a noise floor of -105dB and guess what, since I live in nyc it's entirely pointless since the ambient noise is well above that I also got it for free so you can easily hit transparency at like $100 or so.
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Nov 11, 2018 20:30
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Sounds like the perfect setup then!
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Nov 11, 2018 20:53
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Good luck with this, people who have never heard anything other than a $15 t-amp from eBay hooked up to musty garage sale 70s speakers via coathangers love to post here about how anything more expensive is cable crystals-level snake oil. Oddly enough, this thread seems to attract placebophiles, who think they can somehow convince us of their woo-woo. Here, in the thread specifically for making fun of their dumb asses. All competently engineered amps sound exactly the same, ie. they have no sound signature, they amplify linearly and with so little distortion that any minor 0.05% difference is irrelevant. If your amp doesn't do this, it is defective. I can go out and buy a second hand amp today for less than  that will meet these demands.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:05
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I freely admit that I lean towards "amps can sound different", although I wonder how much of that is gain structure differences with the preamp and how your particular speaker loads the amp down. Either way I'm a fan of big brute amps that sneer at low impedance, and that certainly doesn't hurt dynamics, especially if you're tickling the limits of one amp but not challenging a different one
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Nov 11, 2018 22:08
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It's almost always the speaker, tbh.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:14
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I think to me the best evidence that many really high end people have brain worms is the fact that most would happily spend $20k on new speakers or amps before even trying to room correct or even EQ their system. There was a great thread in the 2 channel forum on AVS where this guy with some seriously expensive stuff [Mcintosh amps and Focal Sopra speakers iirc] was complaining about his system being too bright and what amps and speakers should I replace it with, etc. Someone convinced him to try a $300 30 band analog studio EQ and he fell in love with it after some tweaking. This was a guy ready to spend thousands of dollars on new gear.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:35
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miniDSP can do some loving magic for real
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Nov 11, 2018 22:37
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Bad amps sound different Good amps all sound the same
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Nov 11, 2018 22:40
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Another of the base assumptions that hurts my brain is nobody’s willing to say “I prefer the way this sounds,” they have to say “this is factually superior.” Like if you want to be an analog tweako and deal with tube amps and tone arms and poo poo that’s cool just don’t pretend it is better by any measurable standard or that it’s anything approaching accurate or studio quality. I think it’s because the people trying to sell this stuff and the reviewers they depend on to help them talk this way so the consumers end up discussing it the same way. Some products that are really popular [and have huge marketing budgets] like the KEF LS50 get tons of reviews saying the sound better than speakers costing double but if you read reviews of $3000 bookshelf speakers they’ll usually go out of their way to point out their superiority to lesser products, even well reviewed ones.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:51
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But how else so you drive sales without a bitter argument about factual superiority or in-group thinking
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Nov 11, 2018 23:03
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A rich relative gifted me a McIntosh 275 for my high school graduation. It sounds fine, but it was free, so ?
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Nov 12, 2018 05:37
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A $4k tube amp is a weird graduation gift unless you were seriously into vinyl or something.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:50
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I bought me an even more expensive thingamajig. Better offload my old poo poo on my nephew, who I saw wear a band shirt once.
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Nov 12, 2018 08:35
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I've used one of the lovely T-Amps for ages, paired with $150-a-pair monitors, and the setup has served my desktop listening wonderfully. Until the speaker died and I had to use a pair of JVC micro system speakers. At least they're the wooden kind. Should I buy a better amp and speakers so I can bring out the rich, warm sound of my 1980's Phish tapes?
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Nov 12, 2018 09:01
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JazzmasterCurious posted:I've used one of the lovely T-Amps for ages, paired with $150-a-pair monitors, and the setup has served my desktop listening wonderfully. Until the speaker died and I had to use a pair of JVC micro system speakers. At least they're the wooden kind. Should I buy a better amp and speakers so I can bring out the rich, warm sound of my 1980's Phish tapes? No.
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Nov 12, 2018 09:29
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Microsystem speakers are notorious for their lack of clarity. Try some alignment crystals placed on top of them to bring out any airyness afforded by the wooden enclosures.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:39
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I have a Marantz SR6011 plus a secondary amp for 2 of the speakers and enough speakers and subs to get me a 7.2.4 setup to watch movies. It sounds great for movies and is (or at least was when I bought it) probably the most reasonable price point you can get that includes the atmos upmixing for standard 5.2/7.2 sources. Using the upmixing for music sounds really neat too. It's surely not 100% accurate with the upmixing but it's fun and works great for movies in particular. I end up using it for music all the time despite the accuracy loss. So, I can understand liking amps that don't have perfect sound recreation to adapt to personal preference, but why that needs to be a $10k amp and not just a graphic equalizer of some sort escapes me.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:08
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Because *~golden ears~*
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Nov 12, 2018 15:22
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Pre-amps and processors coloring the sound is fine, that's their job.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:44
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Phono pre-amps apply RIAA equalisation and bring the signal up to line level. Outside of that they should be transparent.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:57
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No I mean the ones with treble/bass knobs or EQs etc.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:58
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I like audio gear without tone controls or EQ not for "muh pure signal path" but because I can't not fiddle with them constantly 
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Nov 12, 2018 18:45
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Panty Saluter posted:I like audio gear without tone controls or EQ not for "muh pure signal path" but because I can't not fiddle with them constantly So? Fiddle to your heart's content, it's part of the fun.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:33
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KozmoNaut posted:So? Fiddle to your heart's content, it's part of the fun. not when you completely forget to listen to what you set out to listen to
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Nov 12, 2018 19:54
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qirex posted:Another of the base assumptions that hurts my brain is nobody’s willing to say “I prefer the way this sounds,” they have to say “this is factually superior.” Like if you want to be an analog tweako and deal with tube amps and tone arms and poo poo that’s cool just don’t pretend it is better by any measurable standard or that it’s anything approaching accurate or studio quality. I think it’s because the people trying to sell this stuff and the reviewers they depend on to help them talk this way so the consumers end up discussing it the same way. Some products that are really popular [and have huge marketing budgets] like the KEF LS50 get tons of reviews saying the sound better than speakers costing double but if you read reviews of $3000 bookshelf speakers they’ll usually go out of their way to point out their superiority to lesser products, even well reviewed ones. For real... I bought a refurb'd pair of LS50's and they sound SUPER good. I'm not disappointed in them, but honestly I'd rather have just spent that $1000 on some studio monitors instead since that's pmuch how I listen to the LS50's. Marketing and internet hype def got me.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:05
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Are Grados a thing anymore? I have no idea if they are comparable to new agey stuff. It does look like they came out with a crappy IEM.
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Nov 18, 2018 18:28
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redeyes posted:Are Grados a thing anymore? I have no idea if they are comparable to new agey stuff. It does look like they came out with a crappy IEM. Yeah, they are. They also released a set of open back BT cans that are a little weird but if people like them whatever
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Nov 18, 2018 18:53
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I'll never forget when my "audiophile" friend busted out his cd-demagnetizer.
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Nov 19, 2018 22:28
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Gorson posted:I'll never forget when my "audiophile" friend busted out his cd-demagnetizer. I hope that somewhere out there, there’s an audiophool who decided that not only was an imaginary effect great, more demag power must be better, and got to see their CDs die in a spectacular lightshow.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:36
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Do sound nerds still pay 20€ for a regular marker to colour the outer edges of every CD so that the sound doesn't leak out the sides?
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Nov 21, 2018 12:01
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They should update that to be compatible with Blu-ray players.
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Nov 21, 2018 14:16
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TomR posted:They should update that to be compatible with Blu-ray players. You have to plasti-dip the entire disc for optimal performance.
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Nov 21, 2018 14:18
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You still come across thrift store CDs with badly sharpie'd edges. It's hilarious.
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Nov 21, 2018 16:20
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Jerry Cotton posted:Do sound nerds still pay 20€ for a regular marker to colour the outer edges of every CD so that the sound doesn't leak out the sides? I still refuse to believe this was ever a thing, it's just toooooooo stupid.
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Nov 21, 2018 23:03
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Olympic Mathlete posted:I still refuse to believe this was ever a thing, it's just toooooooo stupid. It was very much a thing.
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Nov 21, 2018 23:08
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IIRC green was supposed to be the best color.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:18
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AlexDeGruven posted:IIRC green was supposed to be the best color. Well, I think it started as just any old Sharpie (and yes, it *had* to be a Sharpie). Somehow, like a game of telephone, it morphed to green only. And then specially formulated inks sold in those same kits as CD cleaners.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:25
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 01:11 |
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The best part is that there were CD copy protection schemes that could be defeated by inking over the relevant part of the CD with a marker. But you could just use a Sharpie for that.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:26
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