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Abolish time, collectivize space, bring the Higgs Field under control of the people! EDIT: https://twitter.com/longgameshort/status/1065633832794300417 
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Nov 24, 2018 18:04
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 21:19 |
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DrSunshine posted:Abolish time, collectivize space, bring the Higgs Field under control of the people! GOTY
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Nov 24, 2018 18:18
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I mean the Soviet did try to gently caress with time somewhat. It didn't work out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_calendar
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Nov 24, 2018 18:32
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Also, I remember all corvette fleets worked in some version. Can you still do a gimmick like that? I want to play some ridiculous machine empire with only corvettes and colossi.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:39
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Black Griffon posted:Also, I remember all corvette fleets worked in some version. Can you still do a gimmick like that? I want to play some ridiculous machine empire with only corvettes and colossi. The old doomstack method isn't nearly as effective anymore.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:41
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Black Griffon posted:Also, I remember all corvette fleets worked in some version. Can you still do a gimmick like that? I want to play some ridiculous machine empire with only corvettes and colossi. Last patch turned corvettes from most-likely to disengange to least likely to disengage, so now instead of being incredibly hard to hit and surviving every losing fight, they're incredibly hard to hit and will actually die if they get hit enough. You can still do all-corvette, but you'll actually have to replace losses if you do.
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Nov 24, 2018 18:42
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I guess rolling a trickster admiral might mitigate some losses?
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Nov 24, 2018 19:22
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Black Griffon posted:I guess rolling a trickster admiral might mitigate some losses? So will using Cruisers and Destroyers, which have the highest chances to disengage. The goon that advised skipping those entirely is still remembering last balance patch's fleet optimization.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:48
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Oh yeah for sure, but I'm taking about a gimmick build in that specific circumstance.
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Nov 24, 2018 19:52
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All cruisers all the time works really well until you get titans, and even then for awhile. At some point I end up moving them over to all battleship + titan fleets, but until then cruisers are awesome.
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Nov 24, 2018 20:15
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Aren’t cruisers the worst of all worlds?
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Nov 24, 2018 20:16
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Strobe posted:So will using Cruisers and Destroyers, which have the highest chances to disengage. The goon that advised skipping those entirely is still remembering last balance patch's fleet optimization. No, it's still the same - the disengage changes give destroyers and cruisers an attrition advantage, but don't help you actually win fights with them. hobbesmaster posted:Aren’t cruisers the worst of all worlds? Cruisers are terrible. As line ships their DPR is terrible, and if you want maximum survivability just go evasion cap destroyers. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 20:21
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I usually use cruisers as battleship supplements and as soon as my big guns ce out they get switched to missile and torpedo platforms. I also keep about 20 corvettes in the fleet to quickly skeletonize shields, and destroyers help screen enemy small craft. It works out so corvettes go for the capital ships, medium cruisers and heavy destoyers provide a single screening line, missile destroyers and artillery can focus on the capital ships
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Nov 24, 2018 20:25
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I'm still hoping for a stealth patch note that's the equivalent of "we made strike craft actually good".
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Nov 24, 2018 20:28
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While the thread is on the topic, I have a question about ship design. I remember reading that evasion is capped at 90%. Is that 90% total, or 90% after being modified by tracking? I had noticed that late game my frigates easily hit >90% evasion and my destroyers can reach it too - I was wondering if it might be worth switching over entirely to destroyers at that point.
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Nov 24, 2018 20:30
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Black Griffon posted:Also, I remember all corvette fleets worked in some version. Can you still do a gimmick like that? I want to play some ridiculous machine empire with only corvettes and colossi. I rolled over an awakened empire with four fleets of 15 point defense destroyers and 120 devastator torpedo/scourge missile & autocannon corvettes and two fleets of 18 tachyon lance/kinetic artillery battleships. Losses were nowhere near as bad as you'd expect if you manage to completely overwhelm them. I.E. Only try when you've got twice/trice the fleetpower. Do note that I had psi shields, precog interface and neutronium armor on them.
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Nov 24, 2018 20:57
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Bremen posted:While the thread is on the topic, I have a question about ship design. I remember reading that evasion is capped at 90%. Is that 90% total, or 90% after being modified by tracking? I had noticed that late game my frigates easily hit >90% evasion and my destroyers can reach it too - I was wondering if it might be worth switching over entirely to destroyers at that point. Evasion is capped at 90% before tracking. If you can hit the evasion cap with them (ie evasion admiral), destroyers are very good.
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Nov 24, 2018 21:00
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Conspiratiorist posted:Cruisers are terrible. As line ships their DPR is terrible, and if you want maximum survivability just go evasion cap destroyers. I don't know, I've been using mine like torpedo bombers with afterburners and a swarm computer, they've been working out fine for me.
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Nov 24, 2018 21:26
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Back Hack posted:I don't know, I've been using mine like torpedo bombers with afterburners and a swarm computer, they've been working out fine for me. This is my default when I design vette-less fleets
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Nov 24, 2018 21:48
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I hate that the combat and ship design system in this game means after every major update everyone just has to accept a new meta where X and Y ships are traps and "All Z" or some very specific mix becomes the new objectively mathematically proven optimal design outside of very specific edge cases. It's boring. And it's often not even "well if you follow the new meta to the letter your fleets will be on average 2% more effective" it's generally pretty huge, with entire hull types and classes of weapons regarded entirely as traps. I wish they could boil the combat and design system down to a level where all the options have potential and all choices are meaningful and interesting. If that means abstracting smaller ships away as fleet attachments, so be it. If it means getting rid of half the weapons or even ship design entirely, so be it.
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Nov 24, 2018 22:39
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Baronjutter posted:I hate that the combat and ship design system in this game means after every major update everyone just has to accept a new meta I've been ignoring it no problem. 
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Nov 24, 2018 22:43
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Black Griffon posted:I mean the Soviet did try to gently caress with time somewhat. It didn't work out. The system in which we adjust the work week for various political ends or in order to increase the load factor on industrial machinery is not abolishing time, it is reforming time, and as we know the one who seeks to reform a thing is actually the same - if not worse - as the one who seeks to keep the old thing the way it is. Indeed, by Posadist reasoning, that person is double bad, for they commit two offenses at once; they make the wrong decision, and they do so willingly. They will surely go to the Distant Planet. But to abolish time itself will remove the cruel tyranny of cause and effect, will liberate thesis and antithesis from the fixed flow of development. All aspects will interplay at maximum speed, achieving total production and total living.
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Nov 24, 2018 22:47
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The only thing that are kind of traps are strike craft, which is the same as it has been for a while. Despite what people espouse, there really hasn't been a "this is clear and away the best option and if you use others you're loving yourself". Even when people were all about giant doomstacks of low tech corvette fleets you could still build and operate other fleets and keep up with them (though it was a lot more relative work). If you're playing against the AI this is even more-so the case, because the AI isn't going to be cutting the meta edge of ship design. If you're playing multiplayer there are a ton of other things that are likely to play a more vital role than your general fleet design. Basically stop stressing about it, and if you're playing multiplayer you'll probably want a couple types of fleets and how you use those fleets will be more impactful than him having markedly better designs.
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Nov 24, 2018 22:48
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GunnerJ posted:I've been ignoring it no problem. Same, I just make fleets with a mix of all the different hull and weapon types and it beats the AI just fine.
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Nov 24, 2018 23:03
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Considering the massive amounts of other variables that go into war if you winning or losing comes down 2 fleets that are the same size and yours needs to have the perfect ideal ratio of weapons you've messed up
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Nov 24, 2018 23:05
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Pylons posted:I'm still hoping for a stealth patch note that's the equivalent of "we made strike craft actually good". I've done a lot of buffing to strikecraft for a personal mod, and I've still only managed to get them to be good if there's no PD or you go all-in and support them with lots of missile boats to draw PD fire. If there's even slightly enough PD they just get worn down and then there's no strikecraft left in the battle after a while. If they at least still acted as PD as well they'd be at least flexible, but they're all pure bombers so they're basically just destroyable missile mounts.
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Nov 24, 2018 23:43
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I've been watching a ton of Gundam lately because I like the robots and they hit each other, and along with wanting leaders with more personality, It'd be fun to have strike craft pilots that actually gained experience like ships do. It's very micro and probably not a high priority on anyone's list, but Stellaris really needs the ensemble of weirdos you end up with in CK2 to give your empire more fluff.Nessus posted:This does not abolish time, comrade. Well said, kosmorade.
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Nov 25, 2018 00:06
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DatonKallandor posted:If they at least still acted as PD as well they'd be at least flexible, but they're all pure bombers so they're basically just destroyable missile mounts. This would be pretty cool and jive well with my memories of playing Freespace, where you could shoot down the bombs coming to destroy your side's capital ships.
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Nov 25, 2018 00:26
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Black Griffon posted:I've been watching a ton of Gundam lately because I like the robots and they hit each other, and along with wanting leaders with more personality, It'd be fun to have strike craft pilots that actually gained experience like ships do. It's very micro and probably not a high priority on anyone's list, but Stellaris really needs the ensemble of weirdos you end up with in CK2 to give your empire more fluff.
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Nov 25, 2018 01:10
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McSpanky posted:Abolish Time I'm eagerly awaiting the post-LeGuin mod that lets us make a species that actively uses time as a resource, so I can create the Wednesday Bat Empire
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Nov 25, 2018 01:53
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Ignoring repeatables and ascension perks, the late game fleet command limit is 180. That's enough for 22 battleships, or 20 battleships and a Titan. Which is a little high for my tastes, but not insane. However it's also enough for 180 corvettes, which is a silly amount of ships to be mashing into another fleet of comparable size while still making any sort of visual sense, especially without any sort of AoE weapons. In between these two extremes is a mixed fleet of a Titan, 5 Battleships, 10 Cruisers, 20 Destroyers, and 40 Corvettes. 76 ships plus strike craft feels to me like a silly amount of ships to be using in border skirmishes, and that's just one of several. I do get that Stellaris is a space opera simulator and bigass fleet battles are a part of that, but when every minor late game border dispute is an apocalyptic conflict it starts losing its impact (in both the game and the source material). e: and that's not even going into the visual/descriptive differences between mashing hundreds of videogame units together vs a novel or visual media where all the cool or narratively important bits can be given disproportionate screentime. Splicer fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 01:55
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Splicer posted:when every minor late game border dispute is an apocalyptic conflict That's literally every Paradox game.
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Nov 25, 2018 02:00
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Nah they should go other route and increase fleetsize. Seriously, a small amount of ships in a game supposed to simulate giant space empires is one of the lamest things, together with "this massive city planet houses over a million souls!!" descriptions.
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Nov 25, 2018 02:18
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Noir89 posted:Nah they should go other route and increase fleetsize. Seriously, a small amount of ships in a game supposed to simulate giant space empires is one of the lamest things, together with "this massive city planet houses over a million souls!!" descriptions.
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Nov 25, 2018 02:34
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Baronjutter posted:I hate that the combat and ship design system in this game means after every major update everyone just has to accept a new meta where X and Y ships are traps and "All Z" or some very specific mix becomes the new objectively mathematically proven optimal design outside of very specific edge cases. It's boring. The game is complex enough and, in the case of pure vs AI play, easy enough that unless you're very experienced or observant you really won't notice it. There are a lot of variables, so you'll seldom run into straight fleet comparisons. Where you could definitely notice it is in multiplayer against a competent human opponent, but even in that situation a lesser player is liable to get outplayed in multiple ways beyond ship design. Back Hack posted:I don't know, I've been using mine like torpedo bombers with afterburners and a swarm computer, they've been working out fine for me. Case in point. Agean90 posted:Considering the massive amounts of other variables that go into war if you winning or losing comes down 2 fleets that are the same size and yours needs to have the perfect ideal ratio of weapons you've messed up And this too, exactly. That said, if we're doing objective analysis of specific game components, some strategies are going to turn up to be just better in general, even if we're long past the obscenity of corvette swarms wiping 10 times their fleet strength in Fallen Empire fleets. Good ship design is relatively painless to implement. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 05:31
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ZypherIM posted:The only thing that are kind of traps are strike craft, which is the same as it has been for a while. Honestly, this gets me somewhat- I like strike craft, and I think carrier fleets are cool  It's not much of an issue since I play against the AI, but there's a little part of me which wants to powergame all the time.
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Nov 25, 2018 05:45
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Nessus posted:Of course it does, the lower classes don't have souls. "[i posted:Guards! Guards![/i]"]Ankh-Morpork! Brawling city of a hundred thousand souls! And, as the Patrician privately observed, ten times that number of actual people.
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Nov 25, 2018 06:01
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Archenteron posted:I'm eagerly awaiting the post-LeGuin mod that lets us make a species that actively uses time as a resource, so I can create the Wednesday Bat Empire Can they pause time for everyone but themselves like you can in Master of Magic? 
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Nov 25, 2018 10:59
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Quick question from somebody who played the game pre-DLC and is just coming back now. Did they change how early game expansion works? I seem to remember being the early-game being more 'chain colony borders to expand your civilization and use starbases to spackle the gaps' But now my homeworld's border is too tiny to touch other systems and Starbases don't have an announced influence upkeep cost? Am I forgetting something or did they make expansion more starbase-centric?
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Nov 25, 2018 11:41
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DatonKallandor posted:I've done a lot of buffing to strikecraft for a personal mod, and I've still only managed to get them to be good if there's no PD or you go all-in and support them with lots of missile boats to draw PD fire. If there's even slightly enough PD they just get worn down and then there's no strikecraft left in the battle after a while. If they at least still acted as PD as well they'd be at least flexible, but they're all pure bombers so they're basically just destroyable missile mounts. I really think strike craft would work better if they were entirely divorced from the normal combat system. So, basically fleets could launch fighters across the system at each other and do damage without actually entering into normal fights. And also if they had a role in planetary warfare, being able to launch them from planets or bombard planets with them. Then fighters have a role outside of the one that missiles currently fulfil, and you have a reason to want to use them to project force across whole systems.
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