NYTimes: An infanticide that no one can see is also going to attract suspicion.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > NYTimes: An infanticide that no one can see is also going to attract suspicion.

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Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1067391065848770566

# ? Nov 27, 2018 13:14

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 2, 2024 01:57

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1067411311464730627

# ? Nov 27, 2018 14:57

paul_soccer10: Mar 28, 2016; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

glenn noooo

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:22

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

GlennG is as usual correct and good

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:25

Grondoth: Feb 18, 2011

Al! posted:

we've learned from israel that you can shoot unarmed civilians with impunity and the media will cover it as a fight to protect your nation's people instead of a massacre

I'm genuinely concerned about non-violent resistance nowadays. People seem willing to blame people for dying before they blame the soldiers for shooting, and if they do that then the entire rationale and strategy behind non-violence is invalid.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:40

selec: Sep 6, 2003

paul_soccer10 posted:

glenn noooo

I�ve been thinking about this lately. in July, I finally took Contra�s advice seriously (�Never tweet�) and deleted all my tweets back to like 2015 and also just stopped tweeting. Much less reading of Twitter too. The more time passes, the more I agree with this sentiment; Twitter and Facebook warp our brains, those Like buttons are the Devil�s best invention in 100 years.

Virtue is gofundme or Venmo contributions for surgery or vet bills or rent. Virtue is the rare tweet naming and shaming nazis or video of people calling the cops on folks for being black in public.

Almost all the rest of it is a feedback loop that will make you feel crazy. Social Media will be seen in some future as a deeply ironic name for a mechanism to further atomize society (ironically by dumping us all into the same dumpster) and destroy the bonds of family or friendship by making the stakes so high that any disagreement is a chance at ostracism.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:47

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

Grondoth posted:

I'm genuinely concerned about non-violent resistance nowadays. People seem willing to blame people for dying before they blame the soldiers for shooting, and if they do that then the entire rationale and strategy behind non-violence is invalid.

*protests cambodian bombings*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_Campaign#Aftermath

quote:

As foreseen by Secretary Laird, fallout from the incursion was quick in coming on the campuses of America's universities, as protests erupted against what was perceived as an expansion of the conflict into yet another country. On 4 May the unrest escalated to violence when Ohio National Guardsmen shot and killed four unarmed students (two of whom were not protesters) during the Kent State shootings. Two days later, at the University at Buffalo, police wounded four more demonstrators. On 15 May city and state police killed two and wounded twelve at Jackson State College (now Jackson State University) in Jackson, Mississippi. Earlier, on 8 May 100,000 protesters had gathered in Washington and another 150,000 in San Francisco on only ten days notice.[26] Nationwide, 30 ROTC buildings went up in flames or were bombed while 26 schools witnessed violent clashes between students and police. National Guard units were mobilized on 21 campuses in 16 states.[26] The student strike spread nationwide, involving more than four million students and 450 universities, colleges and high schools in mostly peaceful protests and walkouts.[citation needed]

Simultaneously, public opinion polls during the second week of May showed that 50 percent of the American public approved of President Nixon's actions.[4]:182 Fifty-eight percent blamed the students for what had occurred at Kent State. On both sides, emotions ran high. In one instance, in New York City on 8 May, pro-administration construction workers rioted and attacked demonstrating students. Such violence, however, was an aberration. Most demonstrations, both pro- and anti-war, were peaceful. On 20 May 100,000 construction workers, tradesmen, and office workers marched peacefully through New York City in support of the president's policies.[citation needed]

*air force continues to bomb the poo poo out of cambodia*

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:50

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

i'm not well-informed on the media coverage of the Kent State shootings, but i assume some really odious propaganda was published to cause americans to blame unarmed white american college students for dying from being fired at by the national guard

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:52

A Big Fuckin Hornet: Nov 1, 2016; by Nyc_Tattoo

Grondoth posted:

I'm genuinely concerned about non-violent resistance nowadays. People seem willing to blame people for dying before they blame the soldiers for shooting, and if they do that then the entire rationale and strategy behind non-violence is invalid.

non-violent resistance like sit-ins, blocking traffic is already painted by the media as being the 'bad' kind of protesting and the number of people who agree is depressing af

# ? Nov 27, 2018 15:57

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Aftermath_and_long-term_effects

quote:

A Gallup Poll taken immediately after the shootings reportedly showed that 58 percent of respondents blamed the students, 11 percent blamed the National Guard and 31 percent expressed no opinion.[50] However, there was wide discussion as to whether these were legally justified shootings of American citizens, and whether the protests or the decisions to ban them were constitutional. These debates served to further galvanize uncommitted opinion by the terms of the discourse. The term "massacre" was applied to the shootings by some individuals and media sources, as it had been used for the Boston Massacre of 1770, in which five were killed and several more wounded.[3][4][5]

Students from Kent State and other universities often got a hostile reaction upon returning home. Some were told that more students should have been killed to teach student protesters a lesson; some students were disowned by their families.[51]

On May 14, ten days after the Kent State shootings, two students were killed (and 12 wounded) by police at Jackson State University, an historically black university ("HBCU"), in Jackson, Mississippi, under similar circumstances�the Jackson State killings�but that event did not arouse the same nationwide attention as the Kent State shootings.[52]

lol

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:02

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

tl;dr literally 4 million students peacefully protested nationally in unison across high schools and universities and also pushed some violence by burning down rotc buildings and so on and were literally being shot and murdered and beaten in broad daylight by the national guard and right-wing fanatics and yet the vietnam war was still expanded and americans blamed the students for being murdered

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:04

ChairMaster: Aug 22, 2009; by R. Guyovich

Non-violent resistance has been absolutely pointless for like 50 years. The only time it has ever been worth anything was when it offered an alternative to violence, ala Ghandi and the Indian Revolutionaries or MLK jr and Malcom X.

The entire idea of non-violent resistance has been co-opted by rich white people into a vague notion that you should never actually do anything meaningful and just be satisfied with things the way they are, and the only thing you should ever do if something is wrong is something along the lines of a vague "women's march" or "march for science" that accomplishes precisely nothing but makes a lot of rich white dipshits feel better about their complicity in what's going on.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:06

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

it is really difficult to overstate how absolutely violent and stupid 60s america was. the ken burns vietnam series makes a good show of the psychopathic suburban families whose kids getting killed in the war only made them support it harder

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:11

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

lol this rhetoric of protestors being this organized well funded violent subversive threat sounds awfully loving familiar :thunk:

quote:

During a press conference at the Kent firehouse, an emotional Governor Rhodes pounded on the desk,[23] pounding which can be heard in the recording of his speech.[24] He called the student protesters un-American, referring to them as revolutionaries set on destroying higher education in Ohio.

We've seen here at the city of Kent especially, probably the most vicious form of campus-oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups. They make definite plans of burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. This is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agency of Ohio to drive them out of Kent. We are going to eradicate the problem. We're not going to treat the symptoms. And these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize the community. They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the night riders and the vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. Now I want to say this. They are not going to take over [the] campus. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America.[25]

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:14

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/nytdavidbrooks/status/1067247505530867712?s=19

i'm offended in how compassionately you act toward your child bride, dave

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:15

Source4Leko: Jul 25, 2007; Dinosaur Gum

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/nytdavidbrooks/status/1067247505530867712?s=19

Everything this man says is so dumb.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:15

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

ChairMaster posted:

Non-violent resistance has been absolutely pointless for like 50 years. The only time it has ever been worth anything was when it offered an alternative to violence, ala Ghandi and the Indian Revolutionaries or MLK jr and Malcom X.

The entire idea of non-violent resistance has been co-opted by rich white people into a vague notion that you should never actually do anything meaningful and just be satisfied with things the way they are, and the only thing you should ever do if something is wrong is something along the lines of a vague "women's march" or "march for science" that accomplishes precisely nothing but makes a lot of rich white dipshits feel better about their complicity in what's going on.

i think i agree with all of this, but i'd complicate it slightly. for one, i'm usually wary of people advocating violence because the people talking like that often are suggesting violence as a choice, when people in many parts of the world engage in violence because they have no choice. but in terms of non-violent resistance i think people have to 'develop' in a way to get there, and that is an ongoing process that starts with things that feel ephemeral like loosely-organized protest movements that go for a more head-on confrontational approach. the "women's march" stuff is not confrontational at all so i just dismiss that, but i'm thinking of BLM here in terms of changing how people think of themselves and their relationship with state authority.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:20

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

comedyblissoption posted:

i'm not well-informed on the media coverage of the Kent State shootings, but i assume some really odious propaganda was published to cause americans to blame unarmed white american college students for dying from being fired at by the national guard

the same poo poo you see today: even before the shootings, the media were accusing the students of being radical violent anti-American rioters who were starting fires and destroying buildings and throwing rocks and tear gas at the poor defenseless National Guard, and many leading politicians were openly denouncing them

the media tried to turn the coverage around once they had a good photograph of a dead white kid (most of the other Vietnam protester massacres were carried out against black people), but they had trouble overcoming the inertia of the message they'd previously set. meanwhile, the Guard and politicians set the tone of the initial reaction by issuing "mistaken" press releases saying that several Guardsmen had been shot and killed by the students

here's a speech given by the governor of the state the day before the Kent State shootings

https://www.library.kent.edu/ksu-may-4-rhodes-speech-may-3-1970

quote:

Now you know everybody here. This is -- Robert Kopansky is the District Attorney for the Federal Government. You know the Mayor, Del Corso, Karamonte and Don Kane. I want to sum this up and then you can ask questions of any of us.

We have seen here at the City of Kent, especially, probably the most vicious form of campus-oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups and their allies in the State of Ohio for this reason. Most of the dissident groups have operated within the campus. This has moved over where they have threatened and intimidated merchants and people of this community. Now it ceases to be a problem of the Colleges in Ohio.

This, now, is the problem of the State of Ohio and I want to assure you that we're going to employ every force of law that we have under our authority not only to get to the bottom of the situation here at Kent -- on the campus -- in the city -- and we have asked the complete cooperation of the District Attorney of the Federal Government because federal supplies were burned and destroyed in the ROTC building and these people, after we can find them -- after a complete investigation -- will be turned over to the Federal Government. We have asked the County Prosecutor for a complete and comprehensive investigation. And there are some people now out on probation that -- there has been a strong word to the fact that they have participated in this.

Now we're going to put a stop to this for this reason. The same group that we're dealing with here today -- and there are three or four of them -- they only have one thing in mind and that is to destroy higher education in Ohio. And if they continue this and continue what they-re doing, they're going to reach their goal for the simple reason that you cannot continue to set fires to buildings that are worth $5 and $10 million dollars because you cannot get replacements from the Ohio General Assembly. And last night I think that we have seen all forms of violence -- the worst. And when they start taking over communities, this is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agencies of Ohio to drive them out of Kent.

We're going to make two recommendations to the Ohio General Assembly. Now we've had this at Miami in Oxford, Ohio. Also at Ohio State University and we had 32 police officers injured -- and a couple very severe. We have the same groups going from one campus to the other and they use a university -- state-supported by the tax payers of Ohio as a sanctuary -- and in this they make definite plans fo burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. We're asking the Legislature that any person throwing a rock, brick or stone at a law enforcement agency of Ohio -- a sheriff, policeman, highway patrolman or national guardsman becomes a felony and, secondly, we're going to ask for legislation that any person in the administrative side or as a student -- if these people are convicted whether it is a misdemeanor or a felony for participating in a riot, they're automatically dismissed -- there is no hearing, no recourse and they cannot enter another State University in the State of Ohio.

We are going to eradicate the problem -- we're not going to treat the symptoms. And as long as this continues, higher education in Ohio is in jeopardy and if they continue to give permissive consent, they will destroy higher education in this state. I would like for -- we were very fortunate last night we had 700 -- 700 National Guardsmen in this area on the truckers strike. Had they not been here there would have been 14 or 15 other burn-outs and I'm not talking about buildings. And it was just through the good fortune of the other incident happening parallel with this one. And that we had here the County Prosecutor, the Mayor, the Chief of Police and the Fire Chief of every law enforcement agency here have been very cohesive in this and I want to congratulate all of them.

They've done a great job -- everybody here -- the City Attorney -- everyboddy here -- the Judicial System, all of them have done a good job here but they're limited. There has to be some way of getting some subsidy for these epople to fight and these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize a community. They're worse than the "Brown Shirt" and the communist element and also the "night riders" in the Vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. And I want to say that they're not going to take over the campus. And the campus now is going to be part f the County and the State of Ohio. There is no sanctuary for these people to burn buildings down of private citizens" -- of businesses in a community and then run into a sanctuary. It's over with in Ohio.

again, that was before the shootings, and he's a half-step away from calling them a communist conspiracy to destroy America and promising to bring down every armed agency he could against them to "put a stop to it" at any cost

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:22

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

A Big Fuckin Hornet posted:

non-violent resistance like sit-ins, blocking traffic is already painted by the media as being the 'bad' kind of protesting and the number of people who agree is depressing af

yep, the only kinds of protest the media sees as legitimate are extremely orderly marches kept in free speech zones, and even then like 60% of americans think its ok to kill protesters if theyre blocking traffic even in such a march and that number jumps to 90% if the march messes up their personal commute

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:37

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

quote:

On Monday, May 4, a protest was scheduled to be held at noon, as had been planned three days earlier. University officials attempted to ban the gathering, handing out 12,000 leaflets stating that the event was canceled. Despite these efforts, an estimated 2,000 people gathered[27] on the university's Commons, near Taylor Hall. The protest began with the ringing of the campus's iron Victory Bell (which had historically been used to signal victories in football games) to mark the beginning of the rally, and the first protester began to speak.

Companies A and C, 1/145th Infantry and Troop G of the 2/107th Armored Cavalry, Ohio National Guard (ARNG), the units on the campus grounds, attempted to disperse the students.

lol

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:47

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

to be more specific, the only kinds of protest the media sees as acceptable are ineffective, unobtrusive stunts that do nothing but announce that you feel a certain way in hopes that a news camera sees it and decides to broadcast it

exert any pressure of any kind on anyone and the media comes out strongly against it, because the media is strongly opposed to any form of protest that isn't centered around politely begging the media to take up your cause

take things directly to the decision-makers (whether they're the voters, the politicians, or the business owners) and the media will do everything they can to tear you down as revenge for not using them as your intermediary

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:51

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

whoops wrong trhread

# ? Nov 27, 2018 16:52

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

comedyblissoption posted:

i'm not well-informed on the media coverage of the Kent State shootings, but i assume some really odious propaganda was published to cause americans to blame unarmed white american college students for dying from being fired at by the national guard

College students were considered rich spoiled brats and wingnuts at the time. Less than 10% of the population had a college degree back then.

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:14

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Also going to college to avoid the draft was a thing too

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:18

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Rich white kids getting shot... Dunno how sad id be

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:21

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_State_killings

quote:

Advancing to within 50 to 100 feet (15 to 30 m) of the crowd, at roughly 12:05 a.m., officers opened fire on the dormitory.[4] The exact cause of the shooting and the moments leading up to it are unclear. Authorities say they saw a sniper on one of the building's upper floors and were being sniped in all directions. Later two city policemen and one state patrolman reported minor injuries from flying glass,[4] and an FBI search for evidence of sniper fire was negative.[5] The students say they did not provoke the officers. The gunfire lasted for 30 seconds, and more than 150 shots[2] were fired by a reported 40 state highway patrolmen using shotguns from 30 to 50 feet. Every window on the narrow side of the building facing Lynch Street was shattered.[4]

The crowd scattered and a number of people were trampled or cut by falling glass. Phillip Lafayette Gibbs, 21, a junior, and James Earl Green, 17, a senior and miler[4] at nearby Jim Hill High School, were killed; twelve others were wounded. Gibbs was killed near Alexander Hall by buckshot, while Green was killed behind the police line in front of B. F. Roberts Hall, also with a shotgun.

lol

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:25

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

cops invading black colleges and going heavy suppressive fire on dorm buildings before storming them and smashing the rooms to bits was a frequent occurrence back then

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:37

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
(and can't post for 27 days!)

https://twitter.com/kulturalmarx/status/1067383592320348160?s=21

# ? Nov 27, 2018 17:40

Shear Modulus: Jun 9, 2010

comedyblissoption posted:

quote:
I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America.[25]

there was one that i think was way better at those capacities because it beat the british empire

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:08

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/kulturalmarx/status/1067383592320348160?s=21

Glad I'm not the only one that sees the sickness

the bitcoin of weed posted:

it is really difficult to overstate how absolutely violent and stupid 60s america was. the ken burns vietnam series makes a good show of the psychopathic suburban families whose kids getting killed in the war only made them support it harder

That didn't totally surprise me...but it did surprise me

It's definitely a good doc, though Burns I realize made it to 'heal the wounds' of Vietnam, and that leads to him talking about how privately conflicted Pols were

as they let other people die in a useless war, and I have no fuckin' sympathy for them. I have a friend who tried watching the doc and he didn't make it through because the idiocy of the pols made as they found ways to shovel poors into the fire made him too angry

Actually, regardless of mistakes in it, the doc does a really good job at explaining the anger of Vietnam vets

If you have Netflix, may I also suggest the doc Burns made on prohibition, it's hella CSPAM

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:11

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

quote:

Two great belief systems are clashing here. The older liberals tend to be individualistic and meritocratic. A citizen�s job is to be activist, compassionate and egalitarian. Boomers generally think they earned their success through effort and talent.

The younger militants tend to have been influenced by the cultural Marxism that is now the lingua franca in the elite academy. Group identity is what matters. Society is a clash of oppressed and oppressor groups. People who are successful usually got that way through some form of group privilege and a legacy of oppression.

The big generational clashes generally occur over definitions of professional excellence. The older liberals generally believe that the open exchange of ideas is an intrinsic good. Older liberal journalists generally believe that objectivity is an important ideal. But for many of the militants, these restraints are merely masks for the preservation of the existing power structures. They offer legitimacy to people and structures that are illegitimate.

When the generations clash, the older generation generally retreats. Nobody wants to be hated and declared a moral pariah by his or her employees. Nobody wants to seem outdated. If the war is between the left and Trumpian white nationalism, nobody wants to be seen siding with Trump.

Imagine writing this and thinking it makes older liberals sound good

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:12

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

Main Paineframe posted:

to be more specific, the only kinds of protest the media sees as acceptable are ineffective, unobtrusive stunts that do nothing but announce that you feel a certain way in hopes that a news camera sees it and decides to broadcast it

exert any pressure of any kind on anyone and the media comes out strongly against it, because the media is strongly opposed to any form of protest that isn't centered around politely begging the media to take up your cause

take things directly to the decision-makers (whether they're the voters, the politicians, or the business owners) and the media will do everything they can to tear you down as revenge for not using them as your intermediary

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:12

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/kulturalmarx/status/1067383592320348160?s=21

Oh hey, the calm and sensible NYT conservatives are parroting literal nazi propaganda too, who could have guessed :thunk:

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:20

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

Goon Danton posted:

Oh hey, the calm and sensible NYT conservatives are parroting literal nazi propaganda too, who could have guessed

the new york times: playing the biggest nazi hits from the 30s, 40s and today!

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:26

Troy Queef: Jan 12, 2013

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1067430101548027906?s=21

the failing Guardian

# ? Nov 27, 2018 18:35

babypolis: Nov 4, 2009

Troy Queef posted:

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1067430101548027906?s=21

the failing Guardian

assange throwing away whatever dignity he had left to support trump will never not be funny to me

# ? Nov 27, 2018 19:01

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde