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You're appalled that someone would correctly assert that there's a not insignificant portion of Nazis who like the punisher and appropriate that iconography because he is a white man who murders all those he sees as deserving of it with impunity?
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Dec 2, 2018 07:47
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I was thinking about this conversation at the club I work at because there was a muscle bro in a Punisher shirt. Seemed like a nice enough guy, but he fit the new stereotype for Punisher fan.
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Dec 2, 2018 09:52
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I don't think anybody is trying to hurt your feelings, but I also think nobody is in the mood to see the honor of the WORST Punisher fans be defended. The character I expected isn't the one I got and the series was better for it. And when "I've seen an episode of TV like this before" is the only point you're making, it's kinda tough to see where you're going. The Sins of the Father is like older than time itself as story element. That didn't make Black Panther any less amazing. Whenever someone describes something as formulaic, it's like a non-point to me. It means nothing. What about the formula failed specifically?
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Dec 2, 2018 15:23
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Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing.
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Dec 2, 2018 17:02
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Endless Mike posted:Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:09
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Meh. My main criticisms of the Punisher show was gun control politician was really a snivelling coward, and oooh we are setting up a big baddie comic book villain that we will reveal in the last 3 minutes of the show. Come back for season 2 which will never happen. The last part is more of a criticism of Netflix shows in general. How they pad and slow down to a snail's pace because they think spending 20 minutes explaining some one note villain' backstory makes the show deep (I still can't get over the Daredevil Bullseye flashback episode). Besides those things I enjoyed the Punisher for at least going in a different direction and giving Frank more to do and making him realize how broken he is.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:20
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FlamingLiberal posted:I lost interest after I watched the second one, which was trash There’s a reason I left II out. That movie was dogshit, so I was really surprised by how drat good III was.
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Dec 2, 2018 19:32
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Ugly In The Morning posted:There’s a reason I left II out. That movie was dogshit, so I was really surprised by how drat good III was. also the villains were awful
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Dec 2, 2018 19:35
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Madkal posted:Meh. My main criticisms of the Punisher show was gun control politician was really a snivelling coward, and oooh we are setting up a big baddie comic book villain that we will reveal in the last 3 minutes of the show. Come back for season 2 which will never happen. Aside from setting up the comic book villain, I found the ending of S1 to be very definite. Frank finally joins the vets, admits he is scared, opens himself to other people. Also makes sure that Curtis stays alive because we all knew drat well he was going to get killed in S2 for motivation
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Dec 2, 2018 20:42
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Samuringa posted:Also makes sure that Curtis stays alive because we all knew drat well he was going to get killed in S2 for motivation Please don't hurt me like this
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Dec 2, 2018 20:52
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Goddamn miracle he survived S1, I'd rather not take any chances.
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Dec 2, 2018 21:27
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I'm going to be so sad if there's a Punisher season 2, because it will mean Frank wasn't allowed to get better 😞
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Dec 2, 2018 21:46
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SlimGoodbody posted:I'm going to be so sad if there's a Punisher season 2, because it will mean Frank wasn't allowed to get better 😞 I have some bad news about that... Although if they swerved and it’s just a hospital procedural of him working in a VA that’d be amazing
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Dec 2, 2018 22:00
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What if John wick but instead of pet avenger, vet avenger
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Dec 2, 2018 22:03
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Saw a preview screening of Into the Spider-verse and it is a good movie! It's looks and style are pretty terrific, probably even beyond what I expected from the trailers. A real "this is what a comic book movie can really do huh" kind of thing. A couple of minor worries I had (the low frame rate the trailers showed, that the crossover aspect might crowd Miles out of his own movie, Nic Cage sounding a little phoned in during his trailer lines) I can happily say were complete non issues. Especially Cage. If there were any justice in the world it would be the last Stan Lee cameo. Whatever thing they'll inevitably put in IW-2 doesn't have a hope in hell of being as fitting.
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Dec 2, 2018 22:16
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You're sure about the framerate? I loved everything else about the trailers but that made my eyes ache (literally) and I was so sad.
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Dec 2, 2018 23:02
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It will probably end up being a personal thing, but I honestly just didn't notice the low frame rate parts much, not in any way that bothered me. If you're really sensitive to it, you still might not like it. It being mixed in with scenes that aren't at that reduced rate probably helps.
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Dec 2, 2018 23:21
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SonicRulez posted:I don't think anybody is trying to hurt your feelings, but I also think nobody is in the mood to see the honor of the WORST Punisher fans be defended. The character I expected isn't the one I got and the series was better for it. We're looking at it differently pretty much. I'm pointing out that I like the genre and I don't think you're a capital worst fan if you like pulpy violent noir and John Woo etc influenced type of stuff. Honorable stoic bloodshed whatever you call it, it can be a good story. I think that character would work as is, DD season 2 did pretty well. I'm not defending every person on Earth with a Punisher shirt, just saying I think being against this kind of story because you think it caters to particular people you don't like, well, that's where we disconnect here. For example, going way way back, people who don't like stuff like Dirty Harry or Death Wish. Because they say it's right wing fantasy. And whether you agree it is or isn't, there's a lot of stuff inspired by that influential art/entertainment in all mediums, a lot of it by liberal pacifists. I mentioned western movies earlier, and part of what's cool about Dirty Harry was it put that style of movie into a contemporary setting, and it worked. Writing out there stuff where a compelling antihero does things that are bad, that can be okay. Just like it's okay to find Jason Vorhees and Freddy Kreuger entertaining, we're not saying hey go out and kill people. But in general either way, I don't agree with this mood as you put it, like there's something so awful and harmful about The Punisher. If somebody is going to be negatively influenced by a piece of entertainment, well, this has been talked about a lot in the video game area, but that person has other problems than the entertainment they're taking in. I think art can be a lot more weird, not immediately obvious that it's responsible or moral etc, more room to breath. But anyway, we're talking about Marvel's The Punisher. It is in most of it's run pretty much a superhero thing by association and publisher only, and the various cameos and crossovers. I know now in the comics Frank is after "big game", which usually to me feels a bit less interesting, fighting the superheroes etc. It's a violent pulpy crime story, not something superhero fans will all dig. So I can see why Punisher is a controversial figure in this thread I guess, I just myself don't think it needs to be, not inherently. And speaking of John Wick, mentioned above, that movie rules. There's a fun movie series about hitmen, criminals, underworld honor, violence, all that good stuff. I guess Punisher needs a better PR guy on these forums or something, so he can get that Wick love. And hey, Wick deserves it, but he's not a saint himself either. Antiheroes can be fun to work with and worthwhile. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Dec 2, 2018 |
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Dec 2, 2018 23:37
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typing this 8 inches away from my full run of Ennis' punisher yeeeah this what about me the real fan woe is me thing just isnt winning me over and tbh your constant inability to acknowledge the criticism in any meaningful way (you're comparing real life right wing cops, military and militias who use the emblem to horror movie fans?? really?) is making my fash spidey-sense tingle more than a little
site fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 00:15
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The Punisher is a bad character whose good stories recognize that.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:16
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I disagree there. On paper he's as good as any other tragic avenger, if you like the genre and style of story he's in, you like it. You can play with the conventions, but I myself don't think only ones that subvert them are good, since I like that genre.site posted:typing this 8 inches away from my full run of Ennis' punisher yeeeah this what about me real fan woe is me thing just isnt winning me over and tbh your constant inability to acknowledge the criticism in any meaningful way (you're comparing this to supernatural horror movie characters?? really?) is making my fash spidey-sense tingle more than a little I pointed out I'm liberal in the first post, and I'm a pacifist too. But it's not surprising we have this disconnect, considering the hostility in your posts so far. That you even make these leaps just underlines what I'm saying. Why is it I can post some in depth thoughts on a thing, and you just keep aiming misplaced accusations? This is not proper, site. And you keep going back to this thing that I've explained is specifically not what I'm talking about, if you don't understand how we're talking about more than fascists mentioned in one post, I don't know what to tell you. Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 00:21
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Heavy Metal posted:I disagree there. On paper he's as good as any other tragic avenger, if you like the genre and style of story he's in, you like it. You can play with the conventions, but I myself don't think only ones that subvert them are good, since I like that genre. It's only page two, could you at least wait a while longer to threadshit?
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Dec 3, 2018 00:26
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Ojjeorago posted:It's only page two, could you at least wait a while longer to threadshit? It's a good post. Maybe not your thing, but it's the real deal.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:28
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If you want to post about the Punisher TV show please post in the TV thread. If you want to keep having whatever dumb argument this is please don't post anywhere.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:28
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X-O posted:If you want to post about the Punisher TV show please post in the TV thread. If you want to keep having whatever dumb argument this is please don't post anywhere. As a mod, why do you allow the charged accusations and other such terrible posting in here?
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Dec 3, 2018 00:30
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Heavy Metal posted:As a mod, why do you allow the charged accusations and other such terrible posting in here? As a user why do you make bad posts?
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Dec 3, 2018 00:37
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X-O posted:As a user why do you make bad posts? That doesn't help. I'm just not into that style of posting, I don't insult people, I talk about stuff. If people were less at eachother's throats about something as not serious as this Marvel character, it would solve a lot of problems.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:41
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To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:45
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You mean Ray Stevenson?
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Dec 3, 2018 00:49
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Madkal posted:To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher. 11 year old me was a giant Punisher fan and rented that once. I was so disappointed. Punisher War Zone best punisher movie.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:49
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Seemlar posted:It will probably end up being a personal thing, but I honestly just didn't notice the low frame rate parts much, not in any way that bothered me. If you're really sensitive to it, you still might not like it. It being mixed in with scenes that aren't at that reduced rate probably helps. Fair enough, you're not me and can't know what would cause issues. I'd interpreted the comment as "the framerate wasn't in there at all" so more of an on/off thing. I think I'll wait for Redbox so that if I do have issues I'm not out fifteen bucks.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:52
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Confirmed: Captain Marvel Trailer tomorrow night on ESPN Rumored: Avengers 4 Trailer Wednesday at some point That would be weird to drop two Marvel trailers that close but Disney has been dropping trailers left and right for a few weeks now.
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Dec 3, 2018 00:53
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Well, Captain Marvel's meant to be a big character in Avengers 4 so perhaps she's in its trailer. If people are sufficiently convinced of Captain Marvel's importance in Avengers 4 (which is obviously the movie most people are more interested in) then more people will go to see Captain Marvel.
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Dec 3, 2018 01:01
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Heavy Metal posted:So I can see why Punisher is a controversial figure in this thread I guess No, I don't think you can.
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Dec 3, 2018 01:03
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I do look forward to Captain Marvel, and I love Sam Jackson. He was in Do The Right Thing, he sure gets around.
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Dec 3, 2018 01:15
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Madkal posted:To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher. I still have an absurd amount of love for the Thomas Jane version tbh. He doesn't even do a ton of punishing in that movie. It's kind of bizarre. Maybe I just like when Diesel shows up as an over the top deliberate cartoon character in an otherwise pretty normal movie. Like you kinda forget it's Marvel until he shows up.
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Dec 3, 2018 02:15
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Endless Mike posted:Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing. Punisher Skulls with blue lines on police cruisers. https://twitter.com/heraldleader/status/835165585298370564 Nothing says "We're out to kill you" better. Good new though, the removed them after people pointed out that BLM is a white supremacy movement and the Punisher is a murderer.
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Dec 3, 2018 02:58
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Heavy Metal posted:I didn't say I was offended, I said appalled. And the second post did say they hate Punisher and the culture around it etc, I get it's not saying literally every fan and aimed at me in particular, but it does to me show a kind of direct way of critiquing art/entertainment that I don't quite dig. Plus in general suggesting that Punisher as is wasn't something that would be good, or what have you, when I myself do think it would be good, so I'm chiming in there. And hey, it's cool that you liked the show. Iirc all they said was it was nice to see him taking on PMCs instead of minorities. I don’t see why you would have a problem with that statement. Or why you think a pulp hero can’t be aiming up at the corrupt institutional power structures like PMCs instead of aiming down at poor people Edit - sorry didn’t see mod post if this is meant to end AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 04:07
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I'm following the rules, won't continue that, I touched a messy topic and rambled a lot. I'll say, not touching on that topic, honestly my favorite comic is Judge Dredd. I love satire on fascism and politics, and I love stuff like Parker and other criminal stories, I'm good with authority being painted in a bad light or being a villain. I look for certain things from different stories, I feel like a lot can be extrapolated from sharing one specific opinion on something, it can be a bit of a quagmire to cover every angle.
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Dec 3, 2018 07:17
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So the Captain Marvel trailer (2?) nnnnndrop is during Monday Night Football? Is this an attempt to get dudebros hyped for Marvel's first big lady movie or is there some other strategy at play?
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Dec 3, 2018 18:21
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