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Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Arist posted:

As someone who initially thought most of the grousing about it was dumb until I went over most of it myself, the P5 localization is not "mostly fine." Entire scenes, entire characters come across weird and stilted as hell. It can be confusing and awkward at the best of times.

My favorite part about the P5 translation is that it's obvious they switched companies or at least editors around the halfway point. The translation gets noticeably worse and there's obvious tells like Sanjiro's nickname arbitrarily switching from "chief" to "boss."

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CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
Thankfully P5 kind of sucks story wise so it doesn’t matter much.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Eh, I've soured heavily on P5 due to overexposure over the last year and a half, but I still think the story is generally fine. There's bad elements of it but I think a lot still works.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!
I mean translation aside it’s kind of clunky and basically doesn’t do anything with its rather interesting premise. It’s one good arc (the first one) then just a ton of poo poo

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

CharlestheHammer posted:

I mean translation aside it’s kind of clunky and basically doesn’t do anything with its rather interesting premise. It’s one good arc (the first one) then just a ton of poo poo

that seems to be alot of JRPGs. i keep trying to branch out into that genere of game but they either end up with nonsensical world building/story or they have a great opening and the game just grinds to a fault.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

that seems to be alot of JRPGs. i keep trying to branch out into that genere of game but they either end up with nonsensical world building/story or they have a great opening and the game just grinds to a fault.

Well I think it’s more of a problem that you are having a story about teenage rebellion written by not teenagers and they just had no idea what to do.

DoubleCakes
Jan 14, 2015

If only JD Salinger was around to write a truly rebellious story about adolescence, like Catcher In The Rye except with a talking cat.

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

DoubleCakes posted:

If only JD Salinger was around to write a truly rebellious story about adolescence, like Catcher In The Rye except with a talking cat.

Catcher in the Rye would be improved with a talking cat, agreed.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

CharlestheHammer posted:

Well I think it’s more of a problem that you are having a story about teenage rebellion written by not teenagers and they just had no idea what to do.

Written by not-teenagers who don't think rebellion is actually good and who hate queer people.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

CharlestheHammer posted:

Well I think it’s more of a problem that you are having a story about teenage rebellion written by not teenagers and they just had no idea what to do.

i more meant in general but yeah that doesn't surprise me. that's partly why i got sick of life is strange.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

DoctorWhat posted:

Written by not-teenagers who don't think rebellion is actually good and who hate queer people.

more like they're written by people who want to rebel against corruption but not against the system like actual teenagers would

CharlestheHammer
Jun 26, 2011

YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i more meant in general but yeah that doesn't surprise me. that's partly why i got sick of life is strange.

Yeah it’s a problem Persona has suffered from a lot.

Like how the big message in 4 is to find and accept yourself and not let society dictate your future.

Then every character finds out they wanted to be what society wanted from them. Convenient!

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

I at least liked the cast of P5 alright which is more than I can say for most of P4's characters.

AriadneThread
Feb 17, 2011

The Devil sounds like smoke and honey. We cannot move. It is too beautiful.


give us (another) persona game with a woman main character, cowards!!!

Max Wilco
Jan 23, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...
I really liked Persona 5. :smith:

I've also been wanting to play an SMT/Persona game for a really long time, though, so maybe that makes me biased. P5 was the one that was the most "accessible" for me for a multitude of reasons.

I would still like to play P4 one of these days, maybe.


Mokinokaro posted:

My favorite part about the P5 translation is that it's obvious they switched companies or at least editors around the halfway point. The translation gets noticeably worse and there's obvious tells like Sanjiro's nickname arbitrarily switching from "chief" to "boss."

Oh, wow, I never noticed that. :aaa:

I remember seeing a couple people say that Persona 5's translation as being a total train-wreck that's impossible to follow (which it isn't), but I think a lot of people agree that the translation needed to be touched up a bit. I picked up on a couple weird, awkward sentences, a typo or two, and some dialog not seeming quite right.

For example, (and this isn't a spoiler if you haven't played the game, so don't worry), there's a line Igor has where he says something along the lines of, "finding others who share a similar aesthetic", which is reference to the other party members, if not all the confidants. I didn't find the line confusing, but in retrospect, I could see how that was maybe not interpreted correctly.

However, later on, Ryuji uses the same phrasing, where he says, "I guess we weren't staying true to our aesthetic", and it comes off off-putting because 1.) there's no implication that he heard the prior line, and 2.) it sounds really weird coming from him.

One theory I heard was that rather than being translated from start-to-end, certain characters or parts of the game were assigned to different members of the staff, and so there's a inconsistency with the translation because of that.

Mokinokaro posted:

I'm assuming it was the whole Fire Emblem Fates mess which basically had two points of contention:
-a creepy touching minigame was removed
-the translation was extremely liberal when it came to characters, completely rewriting a few of them

Chuds, angry at the first point, latched onto the second and used it to get the female employee who managed the translation fired.

Was that the same lady who got caught moonlighting for another company, or am I mixing that up with another incident?

Max Wilco fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 5, 2018

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

They should just hand off Persona's translation to the people who do Yakuza's. Persona 5's translation is trash compared to Yakuza 0's.

Absurd Alhazred
Mar 27, 2010

by Athanatos
The strangest things happen when people make up their own scoring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWDcHZRN0Ow

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

Absurd Alhazred posted:

The strangest things happen when people make up their own scoring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWDcHZRN0Ow

This reminds me of Many a True Run's Fallout One Life To Live/No Kills/Everybody Dies runs.

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013

i like the game but persona 5 is carried mostly by smooth as hell art and sound design. like it genuinely has the best menus and ui i've ever seen in a game, that's no small feat, but a lotta other stuff is just, ehhhhh

a lot of stuff in the plot would be kinda dumb even without the localization issues, but oof the localization is not good. like yeah it's comprehensible, but we're not judging by PS1 standards. most of the character voices blur together (ann and morgana are the worst offenders in this department) and the script is mostly salvaged by the heroic efforts of the english voice actors who genuinely did a fantastic job

im still fond of persona 4 but i replayed golden this summer and man the game really loves to double down on weirdly meanspirited humor and gay panic "jokes"

honestly the best modern persona story is still probably P3P with the female protagonist, despite it's insane pacing issues

Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005


My big problem with Persona 5 is that they spend the first arc going "Sexual harassment bad!" and then immediately after it turn around and add "except when the protagonists do it, then it is charming and funny. Also, please enjoy leering at the female character who we was previously not enjoying that."

dmboogie
Oct 4, 2013

Puppy Time posted:

My big problem with Persona 5 is that they spend the first arc going "Sexual harassment bad!" and then immediately after it turn around and add "except when the protagonists do it, then it is charming and funny. Also, please enjoy leering at the female character who we was previously not enjoying that."

lmao yeah, it's terrible; especially given how the first arc has the strongest writing in the entire game

ann wearing fifty sweaters is a hilarious image without the gross context at least

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
They should bring back Satomi Tadashi for Persona 6. Persona 2 and Digital Devil Saga still have the best stories.

Edit: A DDS HD Remaster would own so much.

Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

TODAY'S GONNA BE A GOOD MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!!!
I'm just gonna replay SMT IV for the second or third time. Maybe get around to Apocalypse eventually. As far as I know those games don't have any embarrassing gently caress-ups in them.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017

MonsieurChoc posted:

They should bring back Satomi Tadashi for Persona 6. Persona 2 and Digital Devil Saga still have the best stories.

Edit: A DDS HD Remaster would own so much.

I'd pay just to have Innocent Sin on a platform I use.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Dawgstar posted:

I'd pay just to have Innocent Sin on a platform I use.

I want the Eternal Punishment remake in english.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1bgbfEPUog

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

dmboogie posted:

I'm still fond of persona 4 but I replayed golden this summer and man the game really loves to double down on weirdly meanspirited humor and gay panic "jokes"

What sucks rear end is that honestly, the "Eww gay" stuff that Yosuke spouts would be fine and even a kinda sad trait if someone in charge hadn't been a huge coward and cut his gay romance option/coming out at the last second.

Reminder that they were so far along into this subplot, that there's english dialogue recorded for it in the files.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

CharlestheHammer posted:

Yeah it’s why I don’t care for wheel of the worst. A lot of the time the material is just to thin to do anything with.

I like Wheel, it showcases a lot of weird old video store crap.

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

Solitair posted:

I'm just gonna replay SMT IV for the second or third time. Maybe get around to Apocalypse eventually. As far as I know those games don't have any embarrassing gently caress-ups in them.

other than 100% of the game systems

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Max Wilco posted:


Was that the same lady who got caught moonlighting for another company, or am I mixing that up with another incident?

Moonlighting as a photography model iirc. So it was none of Nintendo's business really.

It also came out that tons of folks moonlight at Nintendo and the company doesn't care as long as you keep it completely compartmentalized from your job at Nintendo. Her mistake was engaging with the chuds instead of ignoring them.

Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Dec 5, 2018

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009

Mokinokaro posted:

Moonlighting as a photography model iirc. So it was none of Nintendo's business really.

It also came out that tons of folks moonlight at Nintendo and the company doesn't care as long as you keep it completely compartmentalized from your job at Nintendo. Her mistake was engaging with the chuds instead of ignoring them.

In this case, photography model is a nice way to say camgirl who posed with handheld Nintendo consoles.

Kim Justice
Jan 29, 2007

Also had some, to say the least, incredibly questionable opinions when it came to paedophilia laws.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Kim Justice posted:

Also had some, to say the least, incredibly questionable opinions when it came to paedophilia laws.

Yeah I'd blanked that part out completely.

No one came out of that mess looking good.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS

Kim Justice posted:

Speaking of Guru Larry, I should take the opportunity to promote Digitiser: The Show! Of which he is one of the hosts - it's currently halfway through the run and seriously cooking on gas. It's absolutely, gloriously manic. Also, this episode has an arse. But WHOSE?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_AkZ9VYVRM

Digitiser is exactly what I expected of an adaptation of the deranged nonsense that was the Teletext pages. Paul Gannon is a national treasure.

Pants Donkey
Nov 13, 2011

Kim Justice posted:

Also had some, to say the least, incredibly questionable opinions when it came to paedophilia laws.
Was gonna mention this. One of the situations where chuds were right to want her gone, but for the wrong reasons.

Jimbot
Jul 22, 2008

Yardbomb posted:

What sucks rear end is that honestly, the "Eww gay" stuff that Yosuke spouts would be fine and even a kinda sad trait if someone in charge hadn't been a huge coward and cut his gay romance option/coming out at the last second.

Reminder that they were so far along into this subplot, that there's english dialogue recorded for it in the files.

I think this stuff is worse in 5 because the whole game is fighting against corrupt power that the system created (instead of the system itself, which should have been the target) because of those elements harming the little people with little to no power. But that only extends to the straights. Those gays are awful and pedophiles and should be mocked accordingly. In 4, it's bad, but the gruff comes from a lovely teenager who's kind of an rear end in a top hat to everyone. Outside the murder mystery, there's a lot of teenage anxiety about the future and what society expects of them in the game. Not just from your party members but from the NPCs you can talk to as well.

Catgirl Al Capone
Dec 15, 2007

Yardbomb posted:

What sucks rear end is that honestly, the "Eww gay" stuff that Yosuke spouts would be fine and even a kinda sad trait if someone in charge hadn't been a huge coward and cut his gay romance option/coming out at the last second.

Reminder that they were so far along into this subplot, that there's english dialogue recorded for it in the files.

I honestly don't know if that would have been better or worse, the whole "lol the homophobe's a big gay" is its own damaging trope

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011

MonsieurChoc posted:

Edit: A DDS HD Remaster would own so much.

I like the part in Digital Devil Saga where transcending the boundaries of sex and gender lets you reach enlightenment and attain god powers.

Bakeneko
Jan 9, 2007

I personally really hated P5’s whole “phantom thieves” gimmick with all its attendant silliness. The game is trying to tell a serious story about things like pedophilia, child abuse and political corruption, but then it has the characters running around in ridiculous costumes with a chibi cat-creature, pretending to steal things in order to make bad people feel guilty. I know it changes the routine a bit toward the end, but that was too little too late for me.

It seems like they started out wanting to make a darker game about a group of badass outlaws, working in the shadows to right the wrongs of society, but at some point they changed their minds and tried to soften that idea as much as possible. Not only are the characters not really stealing anything, they aren't even allowed to carry real weapons like every other Persona hero has done since the beginning of the series. Instead they're using literal toys. That might sound like a minor change but I'd say it's emblematic of the game as a whole.

Edit: if they remastered DDS it'd be a day one purchase for me. I love those games. Although truth be told I'd rather have a remake of the first Raidou Kuzunoha game using the battle system from the second, so long as I'm throwing out crazy wishes.

Bakeneko fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Dec 5, 2018

Motto
Aug 3, 2013

Kim Justice posted:

Also had some, to say the least, incredibly questionable opinions when it came to paedophilia laws.

wasn't this a college paper or something

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Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005


CYBEReris posted:

I honestly don't know if that would have been better or worse, the whole "lol the homophobe's a big gay" is its own damaging trope

I'm not sure it's the same way in Japan.

Also, it would at least have given Yosuke a character arc and a reason for being a fuckboi, instead of just going, "Hey, here's your best friend who you always agree with! He has horrible opinions that never change!"

I really, really hated that the game doesn't ever give you the option to call Yosuke on his poo poo.

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