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Max posted:Ugh but there aren't many people left. B- flipped town, same as clord. I trust AA is town at this point, he's shown enough paranoia in mason chat that doesn't look faked at all. I'd have expected a paranoid AA to have murdered me to death out of fear of me investigating him at this point. Should read, investigated as town.
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Dec 6, 2018 17:16
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A Sometimes Food posted:I was asleep. Went to bed shortly after voting. I'm coming back to this because I'm still not sure what happened in terms of actions that night, unless ASF got roleblocked, which is a posibility, since I was successfully able to investigate B- on the same night, and if the mirror had worked I should have gotten a non-town result since, you know, I'm a survivor.
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Dec 6, 2018 17:18
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Given that Toal was so hung up on posting about a Framer existing, which is entirely possible with so many cops, and since we've seen the equivalent for the watcher with the mandatory visitor, it's likely we can assume that is the last power of the scum. The godfather is dead, so unless the framer can also un-frame a scum target, I'm inclined to believe the investigation results.
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Dec 6, 2018 17:19
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So, I dunno, I'd lunch Nep-Nep if I'm looking at things from a purely "night action" perspective.
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Dec 6, 2018 17:20
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Other posibility, instead of a framer, there is a scum bus driver, which would also explain results being fucky. Would CLord assume he was being investigated last night?
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Dec 6, 2018 17:25
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##vote bee
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Dec 6, 2018 18:42
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##unvote Ehhhh rereading
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Dec 6, 2018 18:46
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Lol
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Dec 6, 2018 18:51
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Bmoney, do you have any game thoughts?
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Dec 6, 2018 18:52
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I am not b- but I am here so here are Slord's Thoughts(tm) AA: If he is scum he earned this one by playing it cool. Don't think it's likely. b-: Town result. Some stuff I pointed out the other day gives me eyebrow raises but fine to set him aside today because of the result. clord: useless this game Max: If he is scum he earned this one by being an aggressive busser. Don't think it's likely. Nep-Nep: Doc claim that can't really be substantiated. Was the last to claim. Will be my vote today. Sal: Only scum if the final scum is a JOAT of some sort. Know "vig teammate" is not a super common strategy anyway, the more I think about it I don't think al would be willing to go for that, so so unlikely to be scum imo
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Dec 6, 2018 21:11
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A scum team of KB and Hal doesn't seem like a team that would be up for a N1 self vig, no. I thought about that, though, since it's been used in a few games to great effect by the scum team.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:17
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Kb hal and toal are destined to be scum together. It has to be nep by process of elimination. ##vote nep
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Dec 6, 2018 21:24
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Yeah . . . OK ##vote Nep Something bugs me about their posting but really I don't see who else it could be atm.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:33
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That's -1. If I'm wrong scum please don't do a murder on me, I would like to, you know, live.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:34
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Well that settles it I am not protecting any of you tonight
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Dec 6, 2018 21:35
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Rofl I am also useless this game but I think it’s nep
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Dec 6, 2018 21:36
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and you can -forget- your chance at a prescription for medicinal cannabis!
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Dec 6, 2018 21:36
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Nep-Nep posted:and you can -forget- your chance at a prescription for medicinal cannabis! ##unvo- You almost got me.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:36
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Max posted:That's -1. Everyone ok with me doing this or do yall want to wait for Sal to show back up?
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Dec 6, 2018 21:39
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Be decisive!
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Dec 6, 2018 21:39
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Max posted:Be decisive! Ok. ##vote nep
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Dec 6, 2018 21:41
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I'm afraid I don't have some big slamdunk to pull this back. Anyone could have made a gambit at some point. Do what you're gonna do, have fun!
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Dec 6, 2018 21:41
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Dec 6, 2018 21:43
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 Nep-Nep Votecount for Day 6 With 6 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 10th, 2018 at midnight GMT -- that's in about 3 days, 3 hours.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:44
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 Nep-Nep, Scum-Aligned, Framer was lynched Day 6 ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Anomalous Amalgam, Town-Aligned, Mason has won! b-minus1, Town-Aligned, Vanilla has won! chaoslord, Town-Aligned, Vanilla has won! SalTheBard, Town-Aligned, 1-Shot Vig/Miller has won! Max, Third Party-Aligned, Survivor/Mason/Cop has won! ____________________________________________________________________________________________ Will soon post thoughts about the game and set up in the thread. In the meantime, I shall open up the discord server.
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Dec 6, 2018 21:55
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STOP LYNCHING ME DAY 1 
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Dec 6, 2018 21:56
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also I guess the tl;dr of this game for me is "too many cops"
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Dec 6, 2018 21:57
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jimmydalad posted:
Wait, I was scum? 
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Dec 6, 2018 21:59
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gently caress yeah. Friendship and love prevailed.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:01
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SolusLunes posted:also I guess the tl;dr of this game for me is "too many cops" Yep. Other than that I liked the setup. Thanks for the game jimmy
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Dec 6, 2018 22:02
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Theme song of the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXTn2gSG7es
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Dec 6, 2018 22:03
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Oh poo poo good job town! Hal - I couldn't believe you were actually scum and I just happened to vig you because I didn't want to deal with Hal / Sal the whole game.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:09
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Woo!
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Dec 6, 2018 22:17
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Claiming survivor day 1 worked!
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Dec 6, 2018 22:20
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Gg ez
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Dec 6, 2018 22:30
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Dec 6, 2018 22:32
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So, thoughts from survivor perspective, I really didn't know how the game would go, but being in a masonry was a neat twist. I don't know what this game would have looked like if AA was actually scum, because I think I really would have gone all in on helping out the scum, depending on how well they did. I did eventually go all in on town but that's mostly because scum were dying rapidly and it's in my best interest to end the game as quickly as possible. Giving a survivor a cop ability is also a cool twist, and without a mason partner I can see how I could have weaponized it better, but once I had a mason buddy to chat with (who also lived!) it was easier to just side with whatever alignment they had. Town didn't really push me once my alignment was out there, and Toal was the only person to really turn the heat up on me. I don't know if claiming that early was a good idea or not because of a lot of other factors.
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Dec 6, 2018 22:46
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Hello there everyone! So thoughts about the game. Before going into too much detail about them, I'd like to thank Podima so much for discussing all my insane ideas with me and helping me make a coherent structure that wasn't completely ridiculous. Mod Doc: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kCqjBmbRRWdmccv8Rg9Zp1Ve2Gpnc3c2fd9N1RNtORQ/edit#gid=0 Role PMs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Hs-aD9ab3RSva38K1HY42X5A5dEsWTpVe_4lShqdoPw/edit Set-up Coming into this, the concept that I was trying to go for was to obfusticate the results of the cop role and make the results more ambiguous than the binary nature that the role tends to be. The working name I had for this set-up was "Too Many Cops Spoil The Broth". Granted, I failed miserably in doing so, but I'll discuss more about why and how I could improve this set-up later on in the post. I'll be using this section to talk more about the set-up and why I decided to have it set up the way I did. So obviously for the cop fuckery set-up that I had in mind, I needed to have cops. I wanted to have the Odd & Even set-up cause I did want multiple cops running around but I didn't want them clearing names too quickly, hence the odd & even restriction. As for the Survivor cop, I wanted to include a third party in the game to not tip the balance too far in the favour of the town and give the survivor something that will help them play the game rather than just trying to scrape through day by day. I feel that Survivor on its own is a pretty miserable experience and can be difficult to win with, so I gave the Survivor Cop because I needed more cops & I thought it was a nifty role combination as they could use it to try and find out who town & scum are and try and craft a strategy to maximise their chances. The masonry was also added to give the Survivor the chance, but I feel like this negatively impacted the set-up which I'll discuss more about later. From there, I crafted the mafia team. I have rarely, if ever, seen a framer in the game and I wanted to try the role out as a way to balance against the cops. I also included godfather & roleblocker as ways for mafia to combat against the cops that were in the game. At this point, I wasn't sure how the setup was going to go and I got worried that scum had too many ways to play around the cops, which is hilarious in hindsight I know, and so I gave the town a watcher to counter against framer and the roleblocker. After that, I slotted in the ninja & mandatory visitor to balance out the watcher from becoming too powerful. Another way I wanted to counter cop roles was to have a miller in the game. I initially just had the 1-shot vig be the miller, but then Pod suggested the cool idea of giving the player the option to take the NK in exchange for the miller role. I thought this was cool so implemented the role in the game. Afterwards, vanillas were included to give the godfather a reasonable fakeclaim and to save headache of coming up with more roles and trying to balance them. As for the Messenger, I liked Asiina's Gossip role from Grad School and wanted to implement it in the game. I also wanted to see if it was balanced if given to a scum & how it could be used by scum team to advance the game. Due to it's percieved low-ish power, I decided after discussion with Pod to give the Messenger role to the Ninja and make the action untraceable. That way, if the watcher targetted the person who was messaged, they wouldn't appear and it could serve as a hint towards the possible existence of a ninja. Allowing the role to do both on the same night was to help obfuscate night phases and gave the ninja a strong safeclaim should they fall under town suspicion. The Good No mod errors! At least, none that had any impact to the game other than the false start at the beginning of the game. I feel like I did a good job with role pms, pms about results and whatnot. It was a bit scary as I was very worried I'd make a mistake somewhere, but for the most part, I think the game held together and nothing I did wrong accidentally ruin the game. I thought the survivior cop was a nifty idea for a role. I liked the decision making that it introduces into the role & I feel it is a nice way to give power to a role that can be very difficult to navigate towards the end. In the future, I'd make changes to the set-up so that it wasn't too easy for them to piggyback off town, but I'll talk more about that later. I also liked the messenger role and felt like it wasn't too powerful in the hands of scum. It did cause some discussion about Toal's alleigance and I was definitely happy to see that. With some tweaks, I'll be definitely taking the role into future games. Overall, I felt like the game flowed nicely and that there wasn't any significant mess-ups that impacted how the days worked. Managed to stick within deadlines and get flips posted quickly, which is a mixture of luck and hyperactive refreshing of the thread. I believe people had fun with the game too, which is more important. The Bad So I didn't balance strongly enough against the cops. I think this game is a nice demonstration of just how strong cops are if they are left to run wild & endgame basically had everyone cleared except for Nep-Nep, who was dead in the water by that point. I found that the Framer in its current state was nowhere near strong enough to act as a counter to cop and would definitely need to be buffed for it to be a stronger role against the cop insurgence. I believe it was discussed in the observers thread, but possible suggestions included giving them x-shot permanent frame where their targets would be permanently investigated as non-town & targeting scum swaps their alignment. Also, while power roles normally have a caveat that targets need to be alternated, removing that aspect from the framer could have definitely helped scum. Vig is a very swingy role, especially in a game as small as this. The fact that Sal managed to hit the Godfather, probably the most important role in the scum team for combatting against the cops, set mafia on the back foot significantly from the beginning and things only got worse from there as the cops were able to clear pretty much the entire game by the end. Meanwhile, if Sal had hit town, not only would town be put on the back foot, but they probably would've lynched Sal in quick succession as he would cop as non-town and would be linked to killing town. A possible suggestion for dealing with this in the future is giving the godfather BP so that scum don't get completely gimped in the early game or just not including the vig at all and exchanging the role for something like 1-shot Nexus/Miller that would have a significant impact on the game without swinging it too wildly. The mason was poorly balanced against scum. With the mason, it was easy for Max to hide behind AA and provide a way to safely give his results to town while not being implicated. The obvious solution to this issue is to have thrown a scum into the masonry which would have definitely shaken it up while also giving scum a way to find the survivor and communicate with them discreetly using the Messenger. Alternatively, the masonry could've just been scum & 3P which would have definitely been interesting. Finally, the messenger role was messy. Trying to sort out when to send out the message with things such as the JOAT and roleblocker in play meant that there were times where messages were sent when the recipient had no time to respond or they forgot to respond entirely. I feel like it was poorly implemented by my part and in the future would consider things such as the messages being unstoppable or having the recipient respond on the next night instead to prevent this issue from arising again. Final Thoughts Overall, I'm happy with how this first game turned out. While it certainly wasn't the most balanced, I had a lot of fun running the game and I hope everyone had fun playing the game as well. I definitely have learned lessons that I'll be taking forward to future games I run and yes, I will be running future games. No, they will not have as many cops as this game has had. I want to thank Pod again for dealing with me constantly pinging them with questions and without them, this game would've been much more of a mess than it ended up being. jimmydalad fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Dec 7, 2018 |
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Dec 6, 2018 22:51
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I liked the Vig/Miller role. I just got stupidly lucky and managed to hit the Godfather. I had a 1 in 14 chance of that happening.
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Dec 6, 2018 23:06
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I think another possible balance would've been giving the vig miller a second shot. Eventually it would get used and it would increase paranoia "has just SK shown restraint/now making a move?" instead sal open claimed and just never killed again and time made apparent his innocence.
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Dec 6, 2018 23:09
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