|
My whole point is that crime should be divorced from penalties and it should be one of the primary things checking your growth instead of admin cap - which is actually a mindless penalty. An empire either has to make sacrifices in crucial areas (production, research, PP/unity) or it has to invest more and more into internal security, culminating in using things like prison planets and a huge internal enforcer corps. Or it faces unrest and rebellion. Crime should even affect hive minds and AI, and syndics should be able to parasitise them like Ron Perlman in Pacific Rim.
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:My whole point is that crime should be divorced from penalties and it should be one of the primary things checking your growth instead of admin cap - which is actually a mindless penalty. An empire either has to make sacrifices in crucial areas (production, research, PP/unity) or it has to invest more and more into internal security, culminating in using things like prison planets and a huge internal enforcer corps. Or it faces unrest and rebellion. That is actually kinda how crime does work for a hive mind, it's just called, uh, deviancy, I think? I've barely looked at it so far. Since the only factor which affects it is population number, it's simulating deviant drones outside of the hive's control, using up resources and housing and whatever. Makes sense to me, at least.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
If relocation wasn’t a thing, crime could be used as a migration modifier. Basically use a planet decision that creates a temporary job that turns criminal pops into migration for your colonies. Space Australia.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:03
|
|
|
Personally I'm fine with the idea of it in general. I'd do a scaling rate from 50% hab to 0% hab, at 2% growth rate penalty per hab% under 50. So on 25% hab planets you'd be at another 50% growth penalty, making colonies have no growth (and hives 50%), and 0% hab planets would have no growth for anyone. This leaves hives with a small edge in their "make dudes faster than anyone" niche, lets normal people colonize 60% places without feeling the need to do the pop shuffle on goddamn every planet. As you get +hab techs you'd open up the open to grow people in hell-holes (if you didn't want to terraform them anyways) if you wanted to. This current game, I'm glad my starting area has been just amazing, because 30 years in I finally got the research option for gene clinics. I do have 6 planets all done with being colonies and 75 pops, so it has been a pretty smooth start.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:04
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Also the idea of giving the losing side of a war some sort of recovery bonus is not a new idea, especially in paradox games. In EU4 the losing side of a war gets bonuses to manpower recovery, for example. Basically if the idea is to have more small wars, you want a mechanic to help someone from losing one war and having everyone around them dogpile them to death. So in stellaris you could implement it as a bonus to alloy generation for the duration of the truce, or something like that. Not to mention that you DO actually have invincible fleets after losing a war in Stellaris, from a certain point of view. Whoever was in a war against you cannot declare war on you until the truce is up, unlike in EU4 where you can trucebreak with a pretty stiff penalty. Other empires could jump you, of course, but it's a form of rubberbanding to prevent a massive death spiral.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:05
|
|
|
But you can't use those fleets to invade with no repercussions. Crime branches are a form of attack, you can't make them invulnerable for 10 years because you cocked up a previous one. If you feel it necessary to do that then there's something fundamentally wrong with your design.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:08
|
|
|
turn off the TV posted:Now that we have the ability to adjust the number of guaranteed habitable planets near starting systems it would also be pretty nice to have a setting that could guarantee L-Gate spawns. Now there's at least one guaranteed L-Gate spawn.  Psychotic Weasel posted:This is a really weird design choice. For the longest time I thought I was just missing something. Fortunately new pops tend to show up not long after an agreement is signed so it didn't matter too much. It's a bug.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
So for managing fleets, should I just leave my poo poo on auto-best or should I gently caress with designing ships? e: Also, I've way overexpanded and I didn't know about admin cap until too late. What a I supposed to do about the administrative cap being too low? My admin cap being so low means my poo poo has an added cost of like 180% which is not ideal. But I don't know what to do with all these planets! jokes fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Dec 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:09
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:But you can't use those fleets to invade with no repercussions. Crime branches are a form of attack, you can't make them invulnerable for 10 years because you cocked up a previous one. If you feel it necessary to do that then there's something fundamentally wrong with your design. You realize that you can't rebuild a crime branch on an empire you've been kicked off of for the duration of this, yes?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:You realize that you can't rebuild a crime branch on an empire you've been kicked off of for the duration of this, yes? That wasn't a stipulation but I suppose that relegates it to being sort of pointless rather than terrible. Does it make your offices on other empires invincible? Can you build multiple branch offices and then have each one take ten years to remove? If so that's definitely idiotic. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Dec 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:12
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:Now there's at least one guaranteed L-Gate spawn. It's me, I'm the guy who is going to die in six weeks after a 72 hour Stellaris marathon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:13
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:That wasn't a stipulation but I suppose that relegates it to being sort of pointless rather than terrible. Yes, hence my suggestion that he establish a branch to get nuked somewhere he doesn't care about, so he has time to build branches+buildings to have a chance to keep 'em around. Or at least this is how it functions for the AI, I'm unsure if the player follows the same rules with this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
jokes posted:So for managing fleets, should I just leave my poo poo on auto-best or should I gently caress with designing ships? You should design your fleets because autodesign is terrible. You can get away with just kinetics and energy though, as missiles are bad again and strike craft have always been terrible. Admin cap is just a number, don't worry about it. Never. Stop. Expanding. e. the exception to the above is your defence stations, which will probably be all-hangar all-the-time for the trade protection benefits. Defence platforms with missiles and torpedoes are helpful here, to counter designs intended to kill your fleets. Aethernet fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Dec 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:23
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:You realize that you can't rebuild a crime branch on an empire you've been kicked off of for the duration of this, yes? You can't establish branch offices in an empire you have a truce with but you don't get a truce when your criminal syndicate branch office closes due to low crime. Personally, I don't even think they SHOULD close due to low crime. You're already collecting half of what a normal megacorp would for the same investment, that's enough of a penalty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:24
|
|
|
Here's a suggestion: instead of planetary decisions being a button with an up front cost and having to renew them when they expire, just make them a toggle with a cost over time. So Encourage Planetary Growth would go from being 10 years of +25% growth at the cost of 1000 food to being +25% growth at the cost of 8 food per month. Maybe make it so that when you turn them on they have to stay on for 10 years like other policies. Some of these decisions are really powerful, and it's frustrating that there's no alert for when they expire, and paying for the cost over time would be a lot easier than saving up for the up front cost every 10 years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:25
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Here's a suggestion: instead of planetary decisions being a button with an up front cost and having to renew them when they expire, just make them a toggle with a cost over time. So Encourage Planetary Growth would go from being 10 years of +25% growth at the cost of 1000 food to being +25% growth at the cost of 8 food per month. Maybe make it so that when you turn them on they have to stay on for 10 years like other policies. Some of these decisions are really powerful, and it's frustrating that there's no alert for when they expire, and paying for the cost over time would be a lot easier than saving up for the up front cost every 10 years. Yeah after a certain point in the game I find I just want to have Encourage Growth and Distribute Luxury Goods up on all planets 100% of the time and it's kinda annoying to go to each one individually to set it. If it was a toggle that'd be better. Discourage growth is already a toggle so there's no reason it couldn't work this way.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
Zurai posted:Personally, I don't even think they SHOULD close due to low crime. You're already collecting half of what a normal megacorp would for the same investment, that's enough of a penalty. I imagine Paradox wants a way for empires to combat organised crime short of a full war. That might be why syndics are so weak, really: the system was designed from the perspective of how other empires would deal with them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:31
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Here's a suggestion: instead of planetary decisions being a button with an up front cost and having to renew them when they expire, just make them a toggle with a cost over time. So Encourage Planetary Growth would go from being 10 years of +25% growth at the cost of 1000 food to being +25% growth at the cost of 8 food per month. Maybe make it so that when you turn them on they have to stay on for 10 years like other policies. Some of these decisions are really powerful, and it's frustrating that there's no alert for when they expire, and paying for the cost over time would be a lot easier than saving up for the up front cost every 10 years. Yes I don't at all understand why when they have the capacity for toggles, so many are based on bizzare lump sum payments.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:31
|
|
|
edit: Missed a page.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:32
|
|
|
Want to chime in to agree that non-toggable edicts and other attention taxes are bad and must be stopped. If I want to dump excess food I'll sell it. Also, that 1,000 food that lasts ten years? By the end of that time it's going to smell.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
Fister Roboto posted:Here's a suggestion: instead of planetary decisions being a button with an up front cost and having to renew them when they expire, just make them a toggle with a cost over time. So Encourage Planetary Growth would go from being 10 years of +25% growth at the cost of 1000 food to being +25% growth at the cost of 8 food per month. Maybe make it so that when you turn them on they have to stay on for 10 years like other policies. Some of these decisions are really powerful, and it's frustrating that there's no alert for when they expire, and paying for the cost over time would be a lot easier than saving up for the up front cost every 10 years. I think an alert, or an option to turn on planetary decision alerts, would be the best solution. A toggle is nice, but part of having an up-front cost is forcing you to have those resources on hand, and then committed for the duration.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:33
|
|
|
What does that achieve, though, other than making it take a long time to get the initial 1000 food for your first use of the edict? Either way you need a high food production. But 1000 food doesn't scale well to the start of the game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:36
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:I think an alert, or an option to turn on planetary decision alerts, would be the best solution. A toggle is nice, but part of having an up-front cost is forcing you to have those resources on hand, and then committed for the duration. It's a cost I understand, but it also increases button presses/click upkeep in a way I think detracts from the experience. I think the trade-off is not worth it, even if there was an alert, especially if you're like me and always play for expansive empires with habitability turned up. I'd still have to go to each of my 25 planets every 10 years and click a button to open the decision menu, click the button to re-enact the edict, close it, go to the next planet... Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Dec 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:I imagine Paradox wants a way for empires to combat organised crime short of a full war. Yeah, they're way too easy for other empires to completely marginalize as far as branch offices go (the general trade value bonus just for being a megacorp is still really strong though). Honestly branch offices seem like an idea that was conceived of, implemented to a basic level of functionality, and then called good enough. Branch offices shouldn't be one per planet, they should be available in more empire types (why can a friendly gestalt consciousness not have a branch office again? I understand the genocidals and I understand that a criminal syndicate branch office doesn't make sense, but normal branch offices seem fine), and they should be more interactive. I totally understand that the dev team only has so much time and so many resources to spend and I don't begrudge their allocation of that time and resources, I just would like to see the branch office mechanic expanded and worked on in the future. Zurai fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Dec 12, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:37
|
|
|
Magil Zeal posted:It's a cost I understand, but it also increases button presses/click upkeep in a way I don't think is very interesting. I think the trade-off is not worth it, even if there was an alert, especially if you're like me and always play for expansive empires with habitability turned up. Maybe auto-use the resources every time it expires, but keep the full expense chunks and just notify you that it renewed?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:39
|
|
|
How do you guys conquer folks? Had 2 planets, conquered 3 planets off a guy which promptly puts me at like -100 in every resource. Frantically building farms and energy poo poo before my empire tanks. (It's here that a loving raider fleet that took AT LEAST 50 years to get to me showed up, I'd totally forgotten about him! I fought multiple wars while he was toodling around. Anyway he blew the poo poo out of my capital tanking my resources further) Manage to equalize things eventually, but maybe vassalizing first is the way to go if the new planets will be a big big fraction of your total planets?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:40
|
|
|
That seems like a great way for it to break because instead of a steady drain you lose gigantic chunks of your food stockpile at regular intervals. If you're making it automatic then just make it use the normal accounting system everything else does, which is monthly payments.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Maybe auto-use the resources every time it expires, but keep the full expense chunks and just notify you that it renewed? In theory I'm fine with that, but I could see problems with subtracting 25-30k food from my stockpile every 10 years. As opposed to a much simpler, more elegant -8 food per month or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:43
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:That seems like a great way for it to break because instead of a steady drain you lose gigantic chunks of your food stockpile at regular intervals. That is the entire point of the cost being a single payment. You need to have that on-hand and not somewhere else. Also it sort of keeps you from screwing yourself by auto-renewing yourself into a negative upkeep that bankrupts your economy when something unexpected (like a war) happens.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:43
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm with OwlFancier on this one. If it's a toggle, it should be a monthly cost, not a huge chunk every 10 years. Incidentally, this should be moddable, even if you have to kludge it by making the decision add a planetary modifier for the negative food cost (I'm not sure if planetary decisions can have a monthly cost associated with them natively).
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:43
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:That is the entire point of the cost being a single payment. You need to have that on-hand and not somewhere else. Also it sort of keeps you from screwing yourself by auto-renewing yourself into a negative upkeep that bankrupts your economy when something unexpected (like a war) happens. But... why? It's not a meaningful challenge it's just hard to remember exactly when all of your 1000 food payments come out. It doesn't commit you to more food production, it just stands to break if you have 15 planets and they all renew the edict at the same time because your food stockpile is only 10000. Why is your empire saving up food for 10 years and then doling it all out at once? Why is it building giant food warehouses (literally if you need to increase the stockpile cap) to facilitate this rather than just... doing it the same way it does literally everything else?
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:45
|
|
|
Zurai posted:Yeah, I'm with OwlFancier on this one. If it's a toggle, it should be a monthly cost, not a huge chunk every 10 years. If you're locking them into the full 10 year commitment, a monthly cost could cause you to have an un-managable negative upkeep if something unexpected happens (like say a war and you lose a big agri planet). If you're not locking them into the full 10 years, you're fundamentally changing the commitment required to run the decision. That is fine, but being able to start+stop at will is very powerful (notice how every that you can start+stop costs influence).
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:50
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:That is the entire point of the cost being a single payment. You need to have that on-hand and not somewhere else. Also it sort of keeps you from screwing yourself by auto-renewing yourself into a negative upkeep that bankrupts your economy when something unexpected (like a war) happens. I see what you're saying but I don't think it's worth all the kludge and/or clicks. At best I could see adding an up-front cost to toggle on, like the Influence cost to toggle Discourage Growth or Martial Law, but then just being a monthly cost from then on. Alternately, fold the Food policy into this and have the decision increase pop food upkeep. On a random side note something I've noticed based on looking at AI planets with my branch offices is they seem very trigger-happy on enacting Martial Law. I can't imagine that's good for their economies given the extremely harsh penalties that come with it, maybe they should just try not to have such a bad balance of employment going on instead.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
The weird thing is that there is already a food consumption toggle in game.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:51
|
|
|
Aethernet posted:Want to chime in to agree that non-toggable edicts and other attention taxes are bad and must be stopped. If I want to dump excess food I'll sell it. Also, that 1,000 food that lasts ten years? By the end of that time it's going to smell. We specifically invent awesome preservation techniques!!
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:53
|
|
|
I'm not sure that being able to turn off your growth booster is particularly powerful given that you always want it on at the expense of virtually everything else. You could add an influence cost if you feel it's necessary.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:55
|
|
|
I thought the topbar was going to be moddable for resources. We cant add a custom one without overwriting the entire thing! It is possible to overwrite the strategic group but that's also not mod compatible if multiple mods want to do it. Two mods with custom resources wont work. Very disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:57
|
|
|
Also that it's 1000 food for any size planet, so your ecumenopolis gets about 3 months worth of food compared to the 10 years worth of lower population colony worlds.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:58
|
|
|
Guilliman posted:I thought the topbar was going to be moddable for resources. Yeah I've already seen compatches springing up for a couple of mods as a result, it's going to be a pain in the god drat rear end if you start adding more than a couple such mods to your game 
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 19:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:51 |
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:How do you guys conquer folks? If we're close in power and I'm not just mopping up empires that are weak, I bomb them until basically everybody's as dead as I can make them. You can't collapse my economy with your living standards and upkeep requirements if you're not alive anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2018 20:00
|
|