Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit

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Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Slutitution posted:

So King Ghidorah is literally trying to save Earth's biosphere from human activity by doing what is necessary, and Hollywood is portraying him as evil?

Is this film sponsored by the Koch brothers?

I think the point is going to be that the ecoterrorist is utterly wrong. Unleashing the kaiju isn't going to save the world, it's going to destroy the world as humanity knows it.

Especially since she can apparently talk with the kaiju, I fully expect the plot to be that Ghidorah is an alien here to kill the planet, was long ago beaten into submission by Godzilla, and now Ghidorah's found a human pawn he can dupe into setting him free. So Godzilla has to get the band back together and put Ghidorah down for good with the help of some plucky humans.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:23

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 17:51

Maxwell Lord: Dec 12, 2008; I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.; Grimey Drawer

https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1072896450772721664

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:24

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Cross post from the horror thread, which you guys should go check out! It's new!

Burkion posted:

So you know what ultra mega successful and popular franchise is secretly a horror series, just no one ever talks about it in that context because it tends to hide/ignore that fact very well?

Godzilla. Some of you will get this immediately and already be nodding, indeed indeed. A lot of you however, when you think of Godzilla, you're thinking of one of three things.

One of the two American Godzilla films- which have mild elements of horror but in the same way that a disaster movie does.

Maybe Godzilla 2000, the last Japanese Godzilla to be released in American theaters nationwide.

Or this

First, this is the pinnacle of cinema and all naysayers are denied. This singular moment would cure any number of ills and put to rest the numerous woes of the world if it could only be accepted as the brilliance that it is.

The brilliance being, the movie just not giving a gently caress and doing whatever it wants and gently caress you for caring. But that's a whole other discussion for another day. Right now, we're going to focus in on Godzilla: Horror. To understand exactly how this franchise enters the horror frame of mind, beyond just the tangential connection of monster movies that are shared universally, we have to take a step back. We have to take the context of the time, and what informed it.

Actually we don't, so I'll be brief. World War 2, it was a poo poo. Atrocities, racist fuckheads, dogma, and a changing of civilization that swept the world over. WWI was the coming of the modern age of war, where classical ideals clashed with terrifying technology. WWII was the superior sequel with a greater depth of horrors yet unthought of, where instead of just the soldiers getting torn into, we got even more casualties involved. We're not giving a Japan a pass on this either- the Godzilla franchise itself has made note of their culpability in the war crimes they commited, the people they killed.

But Japan didn't do these things in a vacuum and get away with it. Of course there were the atomic bombings which broke the camel's back and ended the war- in the pacific at least. Poland got REAL hosed over but we're not talking about them right now. Before those though, were the fire bombings. Something that tends to be overlooked, how many air strikes were raided on Japanese civilian towns. More damage and more loss of lives are attributed to those events than the atomic bombs themselves. Basically, World War 2 was a poo poo and no one walked away happy.

World War 2 is incredibly important for this discussion because the horrors of it are mundane and depressing, and those are some of the very same horrors that make up Godzilla. Because Godzilla IS a product of World War 2, a response to it and what it had done to the nation of Japan. The people of Japan. To the creators of the work itself. Tsuburaya, the man who gave Godzilla life, was and is one of the most renowned and acknowledged special effects artists in history. His work helped define Japanese culture as it is today, and had a fair bit of influence over seas as well.

Yet it almost all went south because of World War 2. One of his biggest projects before he came back to the limelight in the 50s, was a recreation of Pearl Harbor. The studio he was working for had been tasked by the government to create propaganda films, and he was one of the many cogs in the machine caught in the middle. So he did his work, and reportedly did it so well and meticulously that it was mistaken for actual footage shot of the event.

After WWII, you can well imagine how this was received. When his blackballing was done, he quietly returned to Toho Studios with a full team on his side. He helped craft the visual story of Godzilla in his own way, working with Ishiro Honda and Tanaka hand in hand. Though, a huge element to what makes the original Godzilla so unsettling is his roar. The original roar is very different than what would become popularized, rougher and less warm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRYq58QPTk8

Especially his chilling death cry from the end.

So for a group of men to make a movie that was about a giant monster rising from the ocean, which itself was based on the atomic testings on the Bikini Atoll and the sailors who were killed by it- long, sad story there- you really couldn't have asked for a better line up.

This brings us directly to the original movie. It is a masterpiece of filmmaking, yet because it was released in 1954 it had to share the stage with Rear Window and Seven Samurai, so you know. 1954 was kind of a big year for movies- and horror, as it turns out. From the jump, there is a quiet dread that hangs over the film, especially if you keep in mind the then extremely recent atomic testings and what had happened to Japanese sailors during them. A quiet dread that immediately takes a turn for the violent, ship after ship vanishing in atomic fire within the ocean.

Like any good horror film, the monster is built up. The moment you meet the monster is a monumental moment, but unlike the Universal Horror of old, the angry mob with torches run away from the beast that they had hoped to chase back to the sea. For Godzilla is quite the unique threat- invincible, unstoppable, unknowable. Emerging larger than a mountain, impervious to any and all of man's weapons, able to unleash nuclear fury from his mouth at a whim, Godzilla towers over all other cinematic monsters before him.

Here is the easiest place to find the horror elements of Godzilla, as he systematically eradicates Tokyo, burning it to the ground one block after another, crushing men, women and children alike. Imagery of the firebombings in Japan are evoked, explored, and even referenced. One of the most memorable moments is a widowed mother clutching her children as Godzilla's horror approaches ever closer, promising that they will soon be with their father.

We later find her corpse in one of the many crisis centers, 'hospitals overflowing with the maimed and the dead', to borrow from Raymond Burr in the American version King of the Monsters. More on that in a moment. We find her dead, her children orphans, and possibly doomed themselves to a much worse fate. Because in the aftermath, we find that Godzilla truly is just as vicious and awful as the nuclear fire that awoke him- he leaves radiation in his wake. Dangerous, deathly radiation, that has taken hold of many of the 'survivors' of his wrath. Including, notably, children.

Because the horror of Godzilla's attack isn't his direct actions, but all of the consequences after. Godzilla does not care for individual humans, does not notice them as such. He passes by and all goes to ruin in his wake. Not out of malicious intent- nothing he does is malicious, which is possibly the worst thing of all. Simply because of what he is, devastation follows. He is a horror that cannot co-exist with humanity.

What heightens this tragedy is the reason why I brought up, if only obliquely, Japan's own crimes in the war. Namely, all were victims in the end. There were no victors in war, not when the individuals were concerned. One country that terrorized others would then become victims themselves of another power. Japan and Germany are the most obvious examples, though others exist as well. The reason this paralel is important is because Godzilla is also a victim.

Godzilla's design in the original movie is that of a survivor of nuclear bombing. As in, someone who was directly exposed and is suffering accordingly. Unique to this Godzilla, obscured until the end by darkness, are radiation scars that cover him head to toe. His behavior is also patterned off of those unlucky individuals in the wake of the blasts, walking in a daze, bright lights and noises bothering them, sudden fits. Everything about him is intentionally, by the creators, patterned off of the victims of the very act that he embodies.

Fitting as in universe, the whole reason he is awake is because of those atomic testings. A victim and victimizer of atomic war. We see Godzilla in his natural element at the end, where he is calm, peaceful. A pitiful creature. In the end, they kill him with an even worse weapon than the atomic bomb ever could be, only for the dread of another Godzilla appearing to hang over their heads.

We take a detour here to King of the Monsters. The original Gojira is a taught and tightly paced, almost modern in fact, film that builds and builds mounting horrors and terrors until reaching Godzilla. The American version, King of the Monsters, takes that and scratches the record. Instead, we get another horror film genre in its origins here.

The Found Footage Film. The movie opens with a noir-style narration of Raymond Burr, playing a reporter who happened to be in the area. But it specifically opens after Godzilla's attack, after the peak of his destruction, and we work backwards from Raymond Burr's perspective to build back to up that moment. This gives the movie an entirely different edge and tone, and brings it in line with the likes of Cannibal Holocaust as the progenitors of the found footage genre as we know it today. It is a fascinating film, and Raymond Burr's narration is top notch through out, though he tries to end the film on an optimistic note, one of the few missteps.

One line that is applicable here however, and it is one exclusive to the American version and superior I believe, comes from one of the characters convincing the scientist who made the super weapon to use it.

"You have your fears, which may become reality, and you have Godzilla. Which is reality."

All backed up by this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SowvXSmiIXo&t=26s

If you can get into the dated effects- mostly the puppet work- it is a suspenseful, unrelenting classic, that draws on broader, more cultural terrors and horror, while never ignoring the individual victims that hold it up. It is a draining, serious, unapologetic film that pulls no punches.

And like any great horror film, it had a quicky cash in sequel that was rushed out with half the effort and relying more on gimmicks than craftsmanship. Raids Again, funnily enough, could have been even better than the original, but it was so rushed that the highest it could rise was 'mediocre'. Which, following an atomic bomb of a film like Gojira, stings ever more.

Following was Rodan, itself a mild blip on the horror genre as it played with the American trend of giant insect monster movies that were popular back in the day. Only with the twist of the insects merely being the food for a greater terror, which is so far from a spoiler that it's not even worth going into.

Godzilla itself would dip back into horror from time to time, even pulling the all time classic Roger Coreman into its circle to create the American version of Return of Godzilla (1984), Godzilla 1985. Featuring Raymond Burr again! And Doctor Pepper. Though Return of Godzilla itself has some horror elements, most notably the beginning of the film on the boat, with the sea louse. It's another film that emphasizes that Godzilla does not need to act maliciously to DESTROY your life, as well.

Since then, we have smatterings of horror here and there. Notably there is an extended ALIENS rip off scene in Godzilla VS Destroyah that is suitably bonkers and awful. Just a really stupid, bad idea that I'm so happy exists. Also there is GMK Godzilla, who is the embodiment of all the souls wronged by Japan from WWII, acting out of revenge for Japan denying their war crimes and culpability. He is one of the only really malicious Godzillas, accordingly.

Of course, when talking existential horror, Shin is pretty high up there. The, to date, newest Godzilla movie, Shin Godzilla, features one of the most unsettling Gojis out there, who is an abomination of nature and radiation. Constantly changing, mutating to match what harms him, a mistake in the eyes of man who has come to punish them for his very creation- whenever the film focuses on him, it takes a dark turn.

Never mind what his first use of his beam does, and how quickly he could obliterate the status quo of the world.

If you're a horror fan, and you haven't thought much of them, think about looking at the Godzilla franchise. From cheesy, to serious, to horrifying and everywhere in between, you may yet find exactly what you're looking for.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:37

Xguard86: Nov 22, 2004; "You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

good points there on the radiation scars and behavior, never thought about that.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:41

mods changed my name: Oct 30, 2017

Maxwell Lord posted:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1072896450772721664

this is good

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:42

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

Maxwell Lord posted:

https://twitter.com/Mike_Dougherty/status/1072896450772721664

I don�t think it�s much to ask for KOTM to recreate the end of this trailer with Rodan carrying Godzilla as they charge Ghidorah.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 20:47

PoptartsNinja: May 9, 2008; He is still almost definitely not a spy; Soiled Meat

Ghost Leviathan posted:

I do wonder how they might interpret Hedorah. I'd go for a gigantic active slime mold or something.

Humanity is Hedorah.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 21:06

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

I don�t think it�s much to ask for KOTM to recreate the end of this trailer with Rodan carrying Godzilla as they charge Ghidorah.

gently caress, that part caught me off guard and I cannot stop laughing.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 21:10

DeimosRising: Oct 17, 2005; �Hola SEA!

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

I don�t think it�s much to ask for KOTM to recreate the end of this trailer with Rodan carrying Godzilla as they charge Ghidorah.

Editing here implies the unidentified blue monster from the KotM trailer is Mothra (replaced by the egg from Mothra vs Godzilla) and the meteor impact is Ghidorah�s arrival (replaced by the meteor crash from Ghidorah, The Three Headed Monster)

# ? Dec 12, 2018 22:07

I, Butthole: Jun 30, 2007; Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT

Vintersorg posted:

gently caress, that part caught me off guard and I cannot stop laughing.

The stumpy Godzilla sprint preceding it got me pretty good.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 22:26

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

DeimosRising posted:

Editing here implies the unidentified blue monster from the KotM trailer is Mothra (replaced by the egg from Mothra vs Godzilla) and the meteor impact is Ghidorah�s arrival (replaced by the meteor crash from Ghidorah, The Three Headed Monster)

Apparently it's been stated in an interview that Mothra glows blue when she's charging up her big attacks, so yeah that blue monster is probably her emerging from her cocoon.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 22:44

Violator: May 15, 2003

G�14 had deceptive marketing to hide the MUTOs (the trailer had the door closing while Godzilla roared vs the movie had Godzilla fighting a MUTO while the door closed is the one that jumps out at me), so they could be hiding something even if it looks like they�re showing something else.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 23:11

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

5 more goddamn months. :smith:

# ? Dec 12, 2018 23:16

flirty dental hygienist: Jul 24, 2007; All aboard the knuckle train to FIST PLANET!!

They need to have Gaborah make an appearance. Hands down one of my favorites from the original series.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 23:25

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

flirty dental hygienist posted:

They need to have Gaborah make an appearance. Hands down one of my favorites from the original series.

The one in Godzilla's Revenge? I fell like you're the first person to ever say that.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 23:54

flirty dental hygienist: Jul 24, 2007; All aboard the knuckle train to FIST PLANET!!

wdarkk posted:

The one in Godzilla's Revenge? I fell like you're the first person to ever say that.

Yeah, with the orange hair. I just really liked his design and his electric powers. I think him, Megalon, Gigan, Jet Jaguar, and King Cesar are my favorites from that era.

# ? Dec 12, 2018 23:58

The Human Crouton: Sep 20, 2002

I'm so confused about whether the recent posts in this thread are also referencing the Netflix movies, which I haven't seen, or if the last Godzilla movie was full of eco-terrorists and other planets and backstories I missed when I went to the bathroom.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 00:07

Vintersorg: Mar 3, 2004; President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club

King Ceaser is wicked. Love his cult.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 00:31

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

Vintersorg posted:

King Ceaser is wicked. Love his cult.

Wicked bad, I agree.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 00:35

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

There's a thought that its not King Ghidorah that's falling to earth...it's a completely defeated Mothra because the surrounding hurricane is of the same lightning effect and storm that Ghidorah creates.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 02:49

Nroo: Dec 31, 2007

Scyantific posted:

Anyone manage to get some really good stills from the trailer yet? I need new desktop images

I tried my best here:
https://imgur.com/a/5Z4yDfx

# ? Dec 13, 2018 04:43

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Yeah, that's definitely Mothra emerging from her cocoon.

Way too big to be a B-2. This is either the Super X or something new along those lines. And note how it's fleeing from Rodan, not even Big G.

That's Godzilla all right, and something bugs me about that structure in the background. I almost want to say that looks like the Arc de Triumphe, but what the everloving gently caress happened to Paris if that's the case...

Hello, new desktop background.

Rodan chasing the Super X. Possibly the Super's trying to lure Rodan into Ghidorah? Would fit if Rodan's the wild card in this fight.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 05:01

Ben Nerevarine: Apr 14, 2006

Nroo posted:

I tried my best here:
https://imgur.com/a/5Z4yDfx

These are amazing

This one has me scratching my head. The lava would have you think it's Rodan but it looks like it's walking. Burning Godzilla? Or a second, maybe third, unknown kaiju?

# ? Dec 13, 2018 05:22

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Ben Nerevarine posted:

These are amazing

This one has me scratching my head. The lava would have you think it's Rodan but it looks like it's walking. Burning Godzilla? Or a second, maybe third, unknown kaiju?

Godzilla walking through a burning gas station is my guess.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 05:24

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

Cythereal posted:

That's Godzilla all right, and something bugs me about that structure in the background. I almost want to say that looks like the Arc de Triumphe, but what the everloving gently caress happened to Paris if that's the case...

The underwater area from the first trailer

# ? Dec 13, 2018 06:38

Synthwave Crusader: Feb 13, 2011

Nroo posted:

I tried my best here:
https://imgur.com/a/5Z4yDfx

Awesome, many thanks

# ? Dec 13, 2018 09:42

Choco1980: Feb 22, 2013; I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Maybe it's my imagination, but is Big G bigger than he was in 2014? The scale of stuff keeps making me wonder.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 09:50

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Vintersorg posted:

King Ceaser is wicked. Love his cult.

Seee-Saw Seeee-Saaaw Seeeeeeeeee-Sawwww

# ? Dec 13, 2018 10:52

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Nroo posted:

I tried my best here:
https://imgur.com/a/5Z4yDfx

These are awesome

NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Dec 13, 2018

# ? Dec 13, 2018 11:17

SHISHKABOB: Nov 30, 2012; Fun Shoe

Ben Nerevarine posted:

These are amazing

This one has me scratching my head. The lava would have you think it's Rodan but it looks like it's walking. Burning Godzilla? Or a second, maybe third, unknown kaiju?

I'm like 95% certain that's a billboard for Orkin lol

# ? Dec 13, 2018 12:20

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

thatbastardken posted:

i mean, those bullets are only going to weigh you down while you're running otherwise.

Off topic and old but I read somewhere that one of the reasons that artillery batteries fired up till the last seconds of WWI was that the more shells they fire, the less they have to pack back home!

Anyways, on topic:

I�m pumped as gently caress for this movie, I just hope they don�t get lazy when it�s time for Godzilla to shine. The killing of the female MUTO in �14 is one of my favorite movie moments ever.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 15:31

Detective No. 27: Jun 7, 2006

One thing that's bugged me about Godzilla movies is that the cities are always back to normal in the ones that are direct sequels. I can't imagine it'll take a decade or so for whatever cities get destroyed in this Godzilla to recover. It'll be neat to see the consequences of this movie play into Godzilla vs KIng Kong. Sorta how BvS addresses the direct aftermath of a world with a Superman.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 15:59

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

Detective No. 27 posted:

One thing that's bugged me about Godzilla movies is that the cities are always back to normal in the ones that are direct sequels. I can't imagine it'll take a decade or so for whatever cities get destroyed in this Godzilla to recover. It'll be neat to see the consequences of this movie play into Godzilla vs KIng Kong. Sorta how BvS addresses the direct aftermath of a world with a Superman.

That's one thing I really liked about Pacific Rim 2 and Independence Day Resurgence. Society post-invasion is shown to be forever altered in some pretty fun and interesting ways.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:01

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

Too bad both of those movies were loving terrible

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:09

Basebf555: Feb 29, 2008; The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!; Fun Shoe

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Too bad both of those movies were loving terrible

Not gonna argue there, but there were aspects of them I enjoyed. Both had solid world-building.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:10

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

I didn�t care for PR2�s world building. It felt sterile in a bad way and everything they did with the Jaegers was mostly poo poo. PR1 built and sold the hell out of the concept of �these machines are loving massive and requiere dozens (maybe hundreds) of techs to maintain and prepare and even something as basic as putting on the suit and connecting the pilots to it require a team. PR2 had none of this. Instead a girl build a jaeger herself and the suits were downgraded to power ranger knockoff where everything is super simple because it�s �advanced� which looked and played out like poo poo. Them trying to re-explain the Kaiju�s purpose and secret contradict the first film and made everything worse.

ID:R however did have a loving cool world setting. The idea that after the alien invasion humanity went all in on scavenging and learning/implementing the alien tech into every day life was cool. The tech was super advanced but was also grounded in the first film so it didn�t feel weird or out of place. The story however was terrible though.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:23

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Considering it looks like the Americans in KotM are going to nuke Washington DC in an effort to kill Rodan or Ghidorah or both... yeah, I think it's a safe bet that the consequences of this will be felt.

Won't be at all surprised if the film touches on the aftermath of G14 in Honolulu, Las Vegas, and San Francisco.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:30

BigglesSWE: Dec 2, 2014; How 'bout them hawks news huh!

I always imagined how the end of �14 would be built upon, more specifically the idea that Godzilla was the hero of San Francisco. I feel there�d be a lot of people who would argue that he�s not something to be thankful for.

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:33

Burkion: May 10, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

BigglesSWE posted:

I always imagined how the end of �14 would be built upon, more specifically the idea that Godzilla was the hero of San Francisco. I feel there�d be a lot of people who would argue that he�s not something to be thankful for.

You know there'd be a lot of cult poo poo built around him

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:35

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 17:51

Ben Nerevarine: Apr 14, 2006

Burkion posted:

You know there'd be a lot of cult poo poo built around him

*Him

# ? Dec 13, 2018 16:38

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Godzilla & Kaiju Movies: the most fun a man can have in a rubber suit

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