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LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe

HalloKitty posted:

The fact that you (probably) won't notice a performance difference doesn't mean the cooling effect is "placebo". If there's a measurable, repeatable difference that's outside of margin of error, that's surely beyond the definition of 'placebo'.

We already established my incorrect usage of placebo.

My point is that most setups won't ever put the type of sustained load required to overheat the controller. Also, that Puget systems article showed that hitting them with a bit of air is even more effective. Glue a fan to your m.2 device if you are serious about real performance.

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WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Real pros would have an nvme drive and just change the throttle thresholds themselves

eames
May 9, 2009

Amazon germany has the 4TB 860 QVO up for preorder at 345€, not a bad price for fast bulk storage. The 860 is 845€.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

LRADIKAL posted:

My point is that most setups won't ever put the type of sustained load required to overheat the controller. Also, that Puget systems article showed that hitting them with a bit of air is even more effective. Glue a fan to your m.2 device if you are serious about real performance.

While you're right, and I don't think anyone here is actually advocating going out and spending $20 to buy an extra heatsink for their SSD, many of us have a handful of leftover stick-on heatsinks from other projects (in my case, putting an AIO on my 1080Ti), at which point it's effectively a zero-cost option for something that might help.

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib

eames posted:

Amazon germany has the 4TB 860 QVO up for preorder at 345€, not a bad price for fast bulk storage. The 860 is 845€.

Seems to have been a pricing error - it's now 310€ for 2 TB and 620€ for 4 TB. Prices will probably fall closer to/after release, but at this point in time, the Crucial MX500 2 TB is a much better deal.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



So if I have an Angelbird PX1 on my HP EX920, right now the heat pad is set so that spans the flash itself within the enclosure. From the last page's discussion and the Gamers Nexus video, it sounds like I may want to revert to a simple PCIe adapter like the Lycom DT-120 or trim back the heat pad on the PX1?

I'm using it in a Mac Pro that's my normal machine, but heavy sustained workloads are somewhat rare for it, and I'd rather not reduce the lifespan of the EX920 if I interpreted all of the information right.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

SourKraut posted:

So if I have an Angelbird PX1 on my HP EX920, right now the heat pad is set so that spans the flash itself within the enclosure. From the last page's discussion and the Gamers Nexus video, it sounds like I may want to revert to a simple PCIe adapter like the Lycom DT-120 or trim back the heat pad on the PX1?

I'm using it in a Mac Pro that's my normal machine, but heavy sustained workloads are somewhat rare for it, and I'd rather not reduce the lifespan of the EX920 if I interpreted all of the information right.

Quick GIS of that looks like an oversize heatspreader, I'd just leave it. In a mac pro -- the trashcan one right? -- it's gonna stay pretty warm since the ambient temperate around it is gonna be pretty toasty.

Also the thing about flash memory preferring to be warm is about data retention time, not overall flash lifespan. Worse data retention does theoretically lower total lifespan, because the controller has to re-write data that is getting fuzzy*. But that's a trivial number of writes added, versus endurance that's far more than what almost anyone will need.

*this is why SSDs are not recommended for unpowered offline backups, because they can't do that while they're sitting on a shelf


The heatsinks people should avoid are big finny ones with heatpipes, or worse waterblocks, that make contact with the flash.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

SourKraut posted:

So if I have an Angelbird PX1 on my HP EX920, right now the heat pad is set so that spans the flash itself within the enclosure. From the last page's discussion and the Gamers Nexus video, it sounds like I may want to revert to a simple PCIe adapter like the Lycom DT-120 or trim back the heat pad on the PX1?

Virtually everything in this heatsink/spreader conversation can be effectively summed up with :effort:

It really doesn't matter to normal, sane users. I wouldn't bother spending the time to muck around with it if you've already got something on there.

Canned Sunshine
Nov 20, 2005

CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION



Klyith posted:

Quick GIS of that looks like an oversize heatspreader, I'd just leave it. In a mac pro -- the trashcan one right? -- it's gonna stay pretty warm since the ambient temperate around it is gonna be pretty toasty.

Also the thing about flash memory preferring to be warm is about data retention time, not overall flash lifespan. Worse data retention does theoretically lower total lifespan, because the controller has to re-write data that is getting fuzzy*. But that's a trivial number of writes added, versus endurance that's far more than what almost anyone will need.

*this is why SSDs are not recommended for unpowered offline backups, because they can't do that while they're sitting on a shelf


The heatsinks people should avoid are big finny ones with heatpipes, or worse waterblocks, that make contact with the flash.

DrDork posted:

Virtually everything in this heatsink/spreader conversation can be effectively summed up with :effort:

It really doesn't matter to normal, sane users. I wouldn't bother spending the time to muck around with it if you've already got something on there.

Thanks both of you! For reference Klyith, it's an old cheese grater Mac Pro that I've upgraded as much as I can to keep it going (I have a Windows 10 desktop too for gaming/etc., but the cMP is for my every day use and occasional Final Cut Pro use and misc. photo editing programs I have and use). It gets decent air flow but under my normal daily use, the fans are pretty much minimum speed so while it is "warm" thanks to the X5690 in the system, it's not as warm as it is under load.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985


DrDork posted:

While you're right, and I don't think anyone here is actually advocating going out and spending $20 to buy an extra heatsink for their SSD, many of us have a handful of leftover stick-on heatsinks from other projects (in my case, putting an AIO on my 1080Ti), at which point it's effectively a zero-cost option for something that might help.

Same. I thermal epoxied a copper ramsink to my 960 Evo, and I can move bigass archives around at full speed. Cost £0 and dropped it below the throttle temp.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Dec 10, 2018

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



Adata SU800 1 TB SATA 2.5" for <$100 with code AD21.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

I hear Ratuken sucks. What precautions should be taken?

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH
Sucks how? I got a micron 1100 2tb over Black Friday from them without issues.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
Rakuten's US launch was marred by credit exposure issues. But you can pay through PayPal so it's really a non-issue.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



redeyes posted:

I hear Ratuken sucks. What precautions should be taken?

Rakuten was formerly buy.com, and nowadays it seems like they're a marketplace for other sellers (or at least for the tech products I usually shop for,) rather than selling much stuff directly (it used to be more Amazon-like.) In this case you're buying directly from Adata, and the only nuisance is that "delivery signature required" which they warn you about in the listing, which you may or may not care about. Use a CC through Paypal and you're fine, I've made many [SSD, Adata specifically] purchases through Rakuten recently and they've all went fine. Oh I guess shipping can be a little slow, but again that's all on Adata.

I've purchased both SU650 (DRAMless) and SU800s over the past year, and they're both fine 2nd- or 3rd-tier SATA SSDs; I put a 512 GB m.2 SU800 in each of my NUCs like a week ago, no regerts.

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll
Nap Ghost
Also, if you shop on Rakuten you should be able to get some extra cash back from Ebates. I believe senates was acquired by Rakuten a while ago. I dunno, all I know is that I got some extra money from Ebates and I’d use them even though they’re both customers of the company I work for.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

Atomizer posted:

Rakuten was formerly buy.com, and nowadays it seems like they're a marketplace for other sellers (or at least for the tech products I usually shop for,) rather than selling much stuff directly (it used to be more Amazon-like.) In this case you're buying directly from Adata, and the only nuisance is that "delivery signature required" which they warn you about in the listing, which you may or may not care about. Use a CC through Paypal and you're fine, I've made many [SSD, Adata specifically] purchases through Rakuten recently and they've all went fine. Oh I guess shipping can be a little slow, but again that's all on Adata.

I've purchased both SU650 (DRAMless) and SU800s over the past year, and they're both fine 2nd- or 3rd-tier SATA SSDs; I put a 512 GB m.2 SU800 in each of my NUCs like a week ago, no regerts.

Cool thanks for that information. I shall order a SSD from them.

franchise1
Jun 5, 2006
Imagine going from Buy.com and Play.com to using Rakuten.com instead. There is probably a good reason behind it but I don't know.

Almost Smart
Sep 14, 2001

so your telling me you wasn't drunk or fucked up in anyway. when you had sex with me and that monkey
I just got a Samsung 860 EVO; is there any reason to use something like Macrium Reflect over their own Magician software to clone my current HDD? And what's the preferred setup for doing the actual cloning? Should I connect both drives to the motherboard via SATA, or should I connect the SSD via a USB 3 adapter? I'd like to keep the old HDD in the system as a secondary storage drive if that makes any difference.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Either connection should work just fine. Magician/migration is fool proof. Just make sure you download it on the first go otherwise you have to go hunting, for some reason Samsung has a download limit.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

Dont clone your current setup, thats for fools. Backup and install fresh, squeaky clean.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

codo27 posted:

Dont clone your current setup, thats for fools. Backup and install fresh, squeaky clean.

It generally works fine.

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib

oohhboy posted:

Either connection should work just fine. Magician/migration is fool proof. Just make sure you download it on the first go otherwise you have to go hunting, for some reason Samsung has a download limit.

They tend to instate a daily download limit for a while after a new version has been released. The previous version is always available unlimited on the overview page.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

redeyes posted:

It generally works fine.

This is true but it's also true that backing up your important poo poo to the cloud and reimaging your OS every now and again is just good practice. May as well take the opportunity.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



franchise1 posted:

Imagine going from Buy.com and Play.com to using Rakuten.com instead. There is probably a good reason behind it but I don't know.

They changed the name because the Japanese company Rakuten bought them. :ssh:

Lambert
Apr 15, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
Fallen Rib

franchise1 posted:

Imagine going from Buy.com and Play.com to using Rakuten.com instead. There is probably a good reason behind it but I don't know.

Generic domain names like "Buy" and "Play" make people suspicious of the service being a scam. And the very 90s idea of "people will simply enter buy.com if they want to buy something!" never worked out. Also: Probably impossible to trademark.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"
So, getting an NVMe drive to work in Windows 7 so you can update its firmware *before* installing it in a new system is fun. First, MS has gotten rid of the hotfix that enables NVMe support in Windows 7 (KB2990941-v3-x64) and the hotfix they put out just in case that one generates BSODs (KB3087873-v2-x64). Then, I found out that MyDigitalSSD included the cutest, smallest, most useless loving M.2 screw known to mankind, which didn't work with my a long-time-ago impulse-bought Addonics ADM2PX4 PCIe NVMe riser.

Not being deterred, I went down and opened up my Aorus Xtreme box, thinking that an M.2 screw is an M.2 screw and *has* to be an M.2 screw. Nope. They use some proprietary standoff screw to work with their M.2 shield.

Finally I settled on finding some electrical tape and wrapped a length of it around the front and back of the riser card after ensuring it was nicely secured in the slot. Fired up the F/W update .exe from MyDSSD, and it doesn't detect anything (and yes, I ran as an administrator). So now I'm formatting it in NTFS (50% done at the time of this post) and crossing my fingers it'll detect once it's done.

In other news, this is a pretty neat site: http://thehotfixshare.net

You'd better loving believe I ran those .msi files through a virus scanner first, though. >.>

EDIT: Annnnnd of course, after an NTFS format (Windows can open and read/write to it just fine), and a reboot just for shits and giggles, the F/W update software can't detect the drive. :toot:

And just for fun, I ran a benchmark on it - mind, this is four lanes of PCIe 2.0 (2500K on a Z68 board), since it was most expedient to install it to the CPU-bound x16-length slot:



I guess I'm hitting Micro Center later today for a USB 3.1 NVMe enclosure, then hope it's 'compatible' with the drive like their native M2X. :shrug:

EDIT2: And after un-allocating the disk (for easier use when *actually* using it), removing the adapter, and uninstalling that now-unnecessary hotfix, when putting away said adapter, I notice, sitting neatly atop the instruction pamphlet for said adapter...a perfectly-sized M.2 screw for the adapter's mount hole. :downs:

Life lesson: don't gently caress around inside your computers at 3am ~just because you've gotta do it sometime~. Who knows, maybe it's because I put it on the CPU PCIe lanes instead of the PCH's, but it took an hour of my life to do something that should've been simple and painless, so USB enclosure it is.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Dec 16, 2018

Sidesaddle Cavalry
Mar 15, 2013

Oh Boy Desert Map
Using Windows 7 in the year 2019 sounds kind of painful

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

"Stand back, Ottawan ruffian, or face my lumens!"

Sidesaddle Cavalry posted:

Using Windows 7 in the year 2019 sounds kind of painful

Well, in another few weeks I'll leave it in the rear-view forever. For now it does everything I need it to...except update my loving NVMe drive via PCIe.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

BIG HEADLINE posted:

So, getting an NVMe drive to work in Windows 7 so you can update its firmware *before* installing it in a new system is fun. First, MS has gotten rid of the hotfix that enables NVMe support in Windows 7 (KB2990941-v3-x64) and the hotfix they put out just in case that one generates BSODs (KB3087873-v2-x64). Then, I found out that MyDigitalSSD included the cutest, smallest, most useless loving M.2 screw known to mankind, which didn't work with my a long-time-ago impulse-bought Addonics ADM2PX4 PCIe NVMe riser.

Not being deterred, I went down and opened up my Aorus Xtreme box, thinking that an M.2 screw is an M.2 screw and *has* to be an M.2 screw. Nope. They use some proprietary standoff screw to work with their M.2 shield.

Finally I settled on finding some electrical tape and wrapped a length of it around the front and back of the riser card after ensuring it was nicely secured in the slot. Fired up the F/W update .exe from MyDSSD, and it doesn't detect anything (and yes, I ran as an administrator). So now I'm formatting it in NTFS (50% done at the time of this post) and crossing my fingers it'll detect once it's done.

In other news, this is a pretty neat site: http://thehotfixshare.net

You'd better loving believe I ran those .msi files through a virus scanner first, though. >.>

EDIT: Annnnnd of course, after an NTFS format (Windows can open and read/write to it just fine), and a reboot just for shits and giggles, the F/W update software can't detect the drive. :toot:

And just for fun, I ran a benchmark on it - mind, this is four lanes of PCIe 2.0 (2500K on a Z68 board), since it was most expedient to install it to the CPU-bound x16-length slot:



I guess I'm hitting Micro Center later today for a USB 3.1 NVMe enclosure, then hope it's 'compatible' with the drive like their native M2X. :shrug:

EDIT2: And after un-allocating the disk (for easier use when *actually* using it), removing the adapter, and uninstalling that now-unnecessary hotfix, when putting away said adapter, I notice, sitting neatly atop the instruction pamphlet for said adapter...a perfectly-sized M.2 screw for the adapter's mount hole. :downs:

Life lesson: don't gently caress around inside your computers at 3am ~just because you've gotta do it sometime~. Who knows, maybe it's because I put it on the CPU PCIe lanes instead of the PCH's, but it took an hour of my life to do something that should've been simple and painless, so USB enclosure it is.


Why not just load Windows 10 and get on with life?! You can control Pro pretty well.

codo27
Apr 21, 2008

I want every thread title on this site to be renamed to STOP USING WINDOWS 7 YOU COUNTRY FRIED RUBE

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
I didn't read that whole post, dude. No one needs a how to for running NVME on an obsolete OS. You could have done an in place upgrade in 20 minutes, come on.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.
Or if you are not ready to upgrade yet, then install Win 10 on the NVMe, upgrade the firmware and wipe the NVMe.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Are there any 2TB performance NVMe drives on the horizon or is the EVO 970 the only game in town?

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Is this like when people had issues getting AHCI to work on Windows XP

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Phone posted:

Are there any 2TB performance NVMe drives on the horizon or is the EVO 970 the only game in town?

Consumer grade? I am sure WD/Sandisk will have something out soon. Enterprise there is stuff from HGST and Seagate but it’s $$$.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

@Big Headline

I went through a similar amount of bullshit recently.

I bought an MSI B450-A PRO motherboard and for some loving reason, their M.2 standoff was missing. Their standoff used a M3 male connector with a slot for a standard M.2 screw. Because that makes sense.

I just got a M3x.5 screw at Lowes and said gently caress it.

Strong Sauce
Jul 2, 2003

You know I am not really your father.





Windows 7 till i die

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.
M.2 standoff screws are the most easily loseable screws and I hate them so much.

Motherboards that have those nylon standoffs that keeps the plug attached with a little rope are the best.

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mmkay
Oct 21, 2010

Saukkis posted:

Or if you are not ready to upgrade yet, then install Win 10 on the NVMe, upgrade the firmware and wipe the NVMe.

Would this actually work? I didn't think Sandy Bridge era motherboards had UEFI drivers capable of booting from NVMe drives.

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