|
Well you've basically described the 4X fundamentals.
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:36 |
|
|
Xarbala posted:Even when their worlds were ravaged, their populace devastated, with guns held to their heads the Grand More like "if we can just hold out long enough, our long-term ally twig1919 will relieve our forces!". And what do you know, they held out until the other side's populace had enough of this war, and it ended in a white peace instead of changing their entire govt structure. Demon_Corsair posted:The start of this game just feels so slow and boring now. All I do is just explore, throw down a new star bases, build everything, rinse repeat. Is that the start of the game now? Just trying to grab as much territory as you can until you run into someone else? That... has always been the start of the game? Along with as Xarbala said, the start of every 4x.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:22
|
|
|
Another UI thing I think the game really needs: military power listed next to fleets and starbase-and-up stations on the galaxy map.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:22
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:The start of this game just feels so slow and boring now. All I do is just explore, throw down a new star bases, build everything, rinse repeat. Is that the start of the game now? Just trying to grab as much territory as you can until you run into someone else? What do you mean "now" ? Isn't that how it's always been? Except now you've got a bit more planet management to do and rare resources to secure?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:24
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:More like "if we can just hold out long enough, our long-term ally twig1919 will relieve our forces!". And what do you know, they held out until the other side's populace had enough of this war, and it ended in a white peace instead of changing their entire govt structure. Maybe I need to turn the difficulty up? I'm about 2 hours in, and haven't made an interesting choice yet. Just keep growing, I have thousands of all the basic resources and the galaxy feels super empty. There isn't really anything to do. Edit: I'm used to pre-2.0 where you fired off all your corvettes and got to meet your neighbors fast.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:25
|
|
|
Turn up the number of empires, it shouldn't take forever to find people. My nearest 3 neighbors are 7 jumps, 5 jumps, and 13 jumps.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:28
|
|
|
Current game I ended up sandwitched between a friendly machine empire and a fanatic purifier with Glavius mod on. A few desperate wars and a defensive alliance or two later I was safe but had a fun problem: Due to the wars i had to industrialize a lot of my planets and ended up with to few rural planets, that lead to me eyeing my xeno-hateing neighbours with different eyes. A not-at-all quick or bloodless war later and hey! Turns out the British might have been on to something after all with the whole forcefully conquer and enslave entire cultures to fuel their empire!   Ended up with 300-something slave-pops and have started to dump some of them on the market now. edit: Yes I COULD have terraformed my way out of my problem(And was doing) but this fixed 2 of my problems at the same time! Noir89 fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 04:32
|
|
|
I don’t mind a lot of the fiddly new micro, but what I do mind is having unemployed pops who will not emigrate from a planet that is totally built out. Is there something I’m missing? Because at end game with 25 worlds, having to go through each world, select the pops to move and the planet to move to, and scrolling down the laggy end game menus each month is just too much. Of course I can just ignore the red icon next to the planet, but you know it really pains me to do it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 05:10
|
|
|
Turn off population growth with a planetary decision, or ship them out once every couple years.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 05:29
|
|
|
Anyone notice that if you don't have the tech for say, Gases, but you have a precursor system with a planet with 10 energy and 6 gases, you can't set up a mining station?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 05:30
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:Maybe I need to turn the difficulty up? I'm about 2 hours in, and haven't made an interesting choice yet. Just keep growing, I have thousands of all the basic resources and the galaxy feels super empty. There isn't really anything to do. the game is flat out not interesting with the default number of AIs and that's always been true, you need to kick the slider up to max AIs at galaxy generation
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 05:51
|
|
|
Yeah, as far as I can tell nothing has really changed about the early game in terms of interaction with the AI or whatever in this patch. I play with the number of AIs cranked up and I haven't noticed anything at all different.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:09
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Commercial hubs are extremely good for jobs-per-slot and let you get by with far fewer consumer goods factories (or none if you go hard enough on clerks and trade value), while also providing energy to just buy what you don't produce. If the AI is spamming commercial hubs it seems like the AI understands the new economy quite well actually. Yeah, this is not the first time I've seen you assert this. Clerks are okay, but you seem to think they're much, much better than strikes me as reasonable. So, okay, you can convert trade value to consumer goods. How many? Well, it's 1 trade value to 0.5 energy and 0.25 consumer goods. You get five clerks to the Com Zone and 2 trade to the clerk, so that's 5 energy and 2.5 consumer goods per hub. The pops consume, depending on the living standard, somewhere between 1.25 and 5 consumer goods, while the zone itself requires 2 energy to run. So, net, we're making somewhere between 3 energy and 1.25 consumer goods to 3 energy and -3.75 consumer goods. Let's look at the alternatives. A generator district gives 2 technicians, 4 energy each, 1 energy upkeep. Civilian industries give 2 artisans, 6 consumer goods each, 4 energy upkeep. So, under decent living conditions, we can reproduce this net output with 76/75 technicians and 41/150 artisans, in 38/75 ~= 1/2 district slots and 41/300 ~= 1/7.5 building slots. Of course, those clerks don't need minerals to make their goods, but the artisans do, and the clerks also produce amenities, which get sort of complicated... Alright, I'm not going to bother running the numbers on all of that, but the point is a concrete economy is going to be outperforming a virtual one something like two or three to one, per pop. Which is the point, right? This whole "it's more efficient per slot" argument is a non-sequitur, because the objective here is not to maximise the number of pops in jobs, it's to maximise the quantity of resources a pop gives you. The bottleneck here is population, not slots. Have you been having trouble finding enough jobs for your pops to work? Because that has not been my experience so far. Looking at these numbers, it might be an efficient way to generate energy, if you're running wealth creation and have a lot of trade value bonuses. Frankly, though, I'm not valuing energy very highly. Being able to buy from the market is good for emergencies but, as far as I can tell, under normal circumstances you're going to be better off making sure you can produce what you need domestically. So: what am I missing?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:12
|
|
|
I did it. I defeated the fallen empires. I took his planets and purged his species through genocide even though they would have been great additions (70 pops!). Then I got a notice that some sort of threat is coming to the galaxy soon, so I'm gonna hold off before seeing this through.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
you do eventually hit a job ceiling before a pop ceiling on many planets. you build commercial zones when your districts are full and you don't want any more consumer goods or alloys or special resources but do want to increase energy (otherwise you build research labs).
Zane fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:18
|
|
|
I find that the real issue I start dealing with is that I have so many planets and colonies with unemployment popping in so often I'd rather just plop down a fuckload of commercial zones so that I don't have to deal with it anymore.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:22
|
|
|
Jazerus posted:the game is flat out not interesting with the default number of AIs and that's always been true, you need to kick the slider up to max AIs at galaxy generation This! Always max empires, the game gives you enough planets in your starting system guaranteed to carry you to late game if you have to. So there is really no reason not to populate the galaxy as much as possible. Autonomous Monster posted:
I have had a couple games where I didn't get the tech for habitats or my ascensions path relatively late (like 3000ish). I was ending up wondering what jobs to put my pops into because I didn't want to make research worlds that I would have to transform back into mining/energy worlds with huge penalties. However, once I started getting habitats up I completely transitioned my economy to maximizing habitats for research then I end up mineral blocked because I can only produce so many alloys. Actually, is there a way to get more minerals without aggressively expanding to take planets? In every game so far I find myself bottlenecked on minerals around the 500+ pop mark.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:24
|
|
|
jokes posted:I find that the real issue I start dealing with is that I have so many planets and colonies with unemployment popping in so often I'd rather just plop down a fuckload of commercial zones so that I don't have to deal with it anymore. the alternate solution to this problem is slap down a small number of cops and go to one of the welfare social policies, so your unemployed pops are busy making you unity and culture instead of off immediately doing crimes. there is a part of me that wants to run a gimmick Marauder empire that runs that policy
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:25
|
|
|
I think for my next game I'm gonna give space racism a go now that I have a much better handle on policies and the like. I think robotics is a crutch. It's a very minor mineral expense for a shitload of pops, I think it would be more interesting to just subjugate and enslave all the assholes around me to get more workers.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 06:45
|
|
|
See, I always think that, then I conquer the dudes with a bunch of tech bonuses and it's like "hmm, maybe these guys are actually pretty chill"
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:11
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:The start of this game just feels so slow and boring now. All I do is just explore, throw down a new star bases, build everything, rinse repeat. Is that the start of the game now? Just trying to grab as much territory as you can until you run into someone else? I mean that sort of always was the start of the game but yes the pop mechanic does cause problems because you have no options to develop internally until you get more of them. It also completely obliterates any playstyle that isn't based around mass colonization because there is no other way to get more pops. Which is my biggest complaint. And this isn't just in an "it's not competitive" sense, it's also in a sense that it makes them incredibly boring, because slow pop growth means you have absolutely nothing to do. For an update supposedly geared around internal development it's done an excellent job of annihilating the internal gameplay in the early stages of a game and also for any empire that isn't colonizing shitloads of planets. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:24
|
|
|
Demon_Corsair posted:Maybe I need to turn the difficulty up? I'm about 2 hours in, and haven't made an interesting choice yet. Just keep growing, I have thousands of all the basic resources and the galaxy feels super empty. There isn't really anything to do. Had the same happen, in my case because I had left most of the setup as default so I ended up with like four other empires plus one FE and one Marauders empire. Just got unlucky with the random rolls. Making sure there are more empires around and I haven't had the same problem since.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:30
|
|
|
Perhaps the new system will get good after a couple of dlc's/patches Also seconding that you need to add more empires in galaxy gen. Otherwise the galaxy will be half empty.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:31
|
|
|
Alamoduh posted:I don’t mind a lot of the fiddly new micro, but what I do mind is having unemployed pops who will not emigrate from a planet that is totally built out. I'm pretty sure unemployed pops give bonuses to normal Emigration. They don't move themselves, but they do increase pop growth on other planets by virtue of sitting around. Interesting side note: Domestic Servant slaves create their own "Servant" jobs instead of being unemployed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:32
|
|
|
Also I wish I could form a federation with two of my buddies. I have a research and defensive pacts and some trades with them, I have done joint wars etc. too. But they refuse to join a federation with me because they're assholes who don't want to go balls deep with anyone else, especially not with a hive mind  We could conquer the galaxy together but no. They just don't want to. They want to be minor small-time players forever, and just keep thinking they have any chance at the big men's table alone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:37
|
|
|
Started a regular old hive mind game on a higher difficulty, enjoying it a fair bit. First colonisable planet i found was some psychic ocean world, so I set up an observation post 'from a safe distance' (as I powerslammed a colony ship into it). We made a space friend! Then it turned out there were mole people living on it too, so we had even more friends. Eventually some mole refugees applied for citizenship and it would've been a dick move to let them go get purged or w/e so I said sure. But wait, I thought normal pops couldn't live in gestalt planets? Oh. Oh no. This isn't what I wanted at all. Well I have all these obs posts and I needed some gene sounding tech to infiltrate their societies, maybe that means I give them the hive mind brain worms or whatever instead of eating them?  Oh well, at least they're happy. We'll work it out in a few decades when I get that perk. I kept running minor food deficits for a bit while colonising because the game really wanted my drones to work completely useless maintenance jobs instead of farming. Had to manually turn those slots off, not a big deal but my research world wound up with a huge amenity shortage despite building up depots until I realised those slots were still disabled. Surely building the building for them should at least enable those slots. And I had a bunch of scavenger drones sitting around my capital for decades because there's no goddamn indicator for it. Gitro fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:38
|
|
|
Ihmemies posted:Also I wish I could form a federation with two of my buddies. I have a research and defensive pacts and some trades with them, I have done joint wars etc. too. But they refuse to join a federation with me because they're assholes who don't want to go balls deep with anyone else, especially not with a hive mind Conquer and immediately release as vassals! It's for their own good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:45
|
|
|
Preston Waters posted:Wait, if you're Xenophobic Commonwealth of Man, you can't even have a migration treaty with UNE? The faction will flip its poo poo over a migration treaty with your own brothers and sisters? Yep. That's a bug that's been present since 1. 0.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
Yeah it's annoying as poo poo. You get hailed and the screen says "hello fellow humans we are also from earth" and your options are "Alien scum!" and its ilk.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 08:29
|
|
|
jokes posted:Yeah it's annoying as poo poo. You get hailed and the screen says "hello fellow humans we are also from earth" and your options are "Alien scum!" and its ilk. UNExit means UNExit.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 09:43
|
|
|
jokes posted:Yeah it's annoying as poo poo. You get hailed and the screen says "hello fellow humans we are also from earth" and your options are "Alien scum!" and its ilk. I'm not even worried about that. I thought that it would be cool to do a migration treaty with them since it's the same goddamn species. Apparently the Xenophobe faction can't even stand that. Whatevs, I'm cool as long as they keep giving me the +pop growth speed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 09:48
|
|
|
Alamoduh posted:I don’t mind a lot of the fiddly new micro, but what I do mind is having unemployed pops who will not emigrate from a planet that is totally built out. You probably still have a bunch of either job slots or housing on that planet, which easily makes incoming migration high enough that coupled with growth it's higher than pops going out. I had to disable some clerks (which you probably have too much of due to city districts anyway) on most of my built out planets so that both housing shortage and job shortage happen on the same pop. My problem now is, planets are constantly switching between "unemployed+housing problems" and "just fine" on the outliner and it's incredibly annoying. Are there any mods where I could remove a specific planet from the outliner? It's built out, I won't touch it anymore, just let me ignore it. I still constantly click on many because they get the icons.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 12:00
|
|
|
Autonomous Monster posted:So: what am I missing? It's not super great for consumer goods, but you really shouldn't have worker pops using 4-5 consumer goods per pop (you're looking at 0.5 on social welfare). Anyways, you can stack a lot of bonuses to both decrease consumer good usage and increase trade value output/industrial output which does skew the math. You are correct in the essentials that you're always going to get more consumer goods from an industrial base than a clerical one. The clerical one is just cheaper if you want to use minerals for something else, in the short-term. It is slightly easier to stack +trade value than +specialist output though I believe. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 12:11
|
|
|
Magil Zeal posted:It's not super great for consumer goods, but you really shouldn't have worker pops using 4-5 consumer goods per pop (you're looking at 0.5 on social welfare). Anyways, you can stack a lot of bonuses to both decrease consumer good usage and increase trade value output/industrial output which does skew the math. You are correct in the essentials that you're always going to get more consumer goods from an industrial base than a clerical one. The clerical one is just cheaper if you want to use minerals for something else, in the short-term. It is slightly easier to stack +trade value than +specialist output though I believe. Plus Clerks are workers so they should theoretically get the bonus from Strong and Very Strong too?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 12:45
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Opt into the beta branch (Stellaris_test), that's where they're collating bug fixes and stuff. It is quite stable. e: Apparently this is in vanilla now vvv Zohar fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 12:48
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:Plus Clerks are workers so they should theoretically get the bonus from Strong and Very Strong too? You'd think so, but I can't find any evidence that anything modifies trade value output from jobs except +%X trade value. I'm not sure even the thrifty trait works, but it may just not be showing up on the tooltip.  Basically, nothing is showing up on the pop tooltip. Only on the total trade value output part of the planet interface. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Dec 16, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 12:55
|
|
|
Zohar posted:I found 2.2 a lot trickier before adding Job Descriptions, which is purely a UI mod that shows exactly how many resources are used and produced when you hover over a building instead of the generic "Technicians produce Credits" or whatever. This is part of the beta by default (it also tells you the inputs too, not just the outputs per job).
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 13:17
|
|
|
DatonKallandor posted:This is part of the beta by default (it also tells you the inputs too, not just the outputs per job). Ah cool, I'm on the beta but still had it enabled so didn't know vanilla had changed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 13:34
|
|
|
jokes posted:Yeah it's annoying as poo poo. You get hailed and the screen says "hello fellow humans we are also from earth" and your options are "Alien scum!" and its ilk.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 13:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:36 |
|
|
Bug in the beta: I'm a devouring swarm and I just drew the uplift tech.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2018 13:58
|
|
