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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

jimmydalad posted:

I mean, I’ve been suspicious of Pod from Day 2 so I’d be up for a vote on him. I could make an argument of him trying to push a case on me 90 mins from deadline. I feel like it’s odd that he brought up that case so quick at the end. Maybe it’s more harsh in hindsight considering that AA flipped scum and I could be doing an OMGUS so I’m not going to give my vote to Pod just yet.

Plus there’s argument that can be made for scum!MMT killing Kash and using that to build an argument on Pod.

MMT, what are your thoughts on Pod’s case on me and my rebuttal?

You've read as genuine town to me this whole game and your explanation post reads like a town player explaining their thought processes in a believable (to me) manner.

Podima posted:

I mean I see stuff there that makes me raise an eyebrow. Easy link to his post history for others: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3876723&userid=204956&perpage=40&pagenumber=2

Day 1: Hops onto the MMT vote and then hops off and started going after Toalpaz instead for reasons that feel defensive upon reread.

From here he put the 5th vote down on merk (-2) before jumping back to Solus and then finally back to the merk execution (4th vote) largely based on the emotional appeal thing. Given how the merk execution shook out I am hesitant to give someone credit for it when they were jumping back and forth. (And yes, I recognize this includes me.)

Day 2: Cases me for being wrong about merk, does a lurker callout that turns into a vote when nobody bites on his casing of me, and defends himself in a way that is actually not true at all:

Day 3: Still pushing on me, town read on MMT, and a whole lot of excusing and not much else. Traveling is one thing but saying "gonna catch up" and then never actually DOING it despite time elapsed is a scumtell in my book.

This case on Jimmy, to me, looks more like a scum frame job than a real case. I did pretty close to the same thing Jimmy did with my votes d1 (merk -> solus -> merk), I think that being suspicious of Pod was a totally fair opinion to have d2, and I don't see why saying "gonna catch up" and not doing it is a scumtell when (a) he's explained that he's travelling cross-country and (b) pretty much everyone has been doing the same thing to various degrees.

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Dick Bastardly posted:

All being said, I lean scum on TM (not only for how AA treats TM but also for their lack luster play as well) and am slightly suss of FL based on AA's "is MMT town, FL town too" comment.

What'd you find when you decided to follow up on your suspicions and re-read TM/FL?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Dick Bastardly posted:

I mean just look at this.

A dying scum merk list with two towns in the first two entries (I put Humalong squarely in my most likely town category), and then what I believe to be a hedgy bus on Sol. My logic there is as follows: This list is going to feature mainly towns in order to establish a pattern when merk's inevitable flip betrays merk as scum. The Solus entry into the list not first nor second (assuming the list is ranked from most to least scum) but third, and with an "uncertain" question mark. I think the scum intention is for the towns reading this list to follow the line of thought that "well if merk flipped scum {not to mention the additional benefit of Toal flipping town} then that must mean this list is full of towns" thus exonerating Sol.

Perhaps my logic is stupid and/or flawed, but this is were I'm at.

---

Ok, so I've re-read AA.

:words:

AA pushes MMT hard probably more than any other player. Knowing that AA is scum now gives a lot of credit to MMT and makes the bolded part above look weird as it relates to FL (another player in addition to TM that is sparsely featured in AA's posting). I had weird gut feels about FL early so now I think i'll re-read FL and see where that goes.

All being said, I lean scum on TM (not only for how AA treats TM but also for their lack luster play as well) and am slightly suss of FL based on AA's "is MMT town, FL town too" comment.

If not Pod, DB would probably be my next-strongest read. I don't think his cases follow the logic of town hunting for scum - in both cases, he reads flipped scum's post history to draw conclusions, but in neither case does he read the actual people he's forming opinions on and make cases based on their actual posts.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Oh man please don't let this game day be another instance of no one posting anything followed by a bunch of people saying the deadline was inconvenient, I can only take so many of those :ohdearsass:

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

jimmydalad posted:

I was only jumping back and forth during the time when legitimate arguments were being made as to why the votes were going in that direction. At the time, Pod came into the thread and argued that Solus was a better case than Merk. I felt like his case had merit and that was why I initially moved my vote to Solus. Once Solus emotion posted, I got a strong town read from him and out of the group that swung onto Solus, I was the second person to swing back to Merk and provided an argument as to why the emotion post is a legitimate town read. Toal and Huma were pretty much locked onto Merk at that point and that was why I didn’t include them in my argument post of being one of first to vote for Merk. I was arguing from the context of those who we’re part of the Solus voteswing.

I honestly feel like that if I was a scum player, I had no reason to voice my arguments for Solus being town or for moving my vote back onto Merk alongside MMT. If I had stuck my vote onto Solus, there would have been a significantly higher chance that Solus would have gotten lynched as Toalpaz would’ve moved their vote onto Solus to prevent a mislynch, as demonstrated by their action of voting for Solus right at the end when it looked like a no lynch was happening, and the people who voted near the end would’ve probably joined the person with the vote lead, which would’ve been Solus. While an argument could be made for me trying to get town cred, doing so at the cost of a scum player in a C9-ish set-up is pretty unreasonable as having scum players alive is such a huge advantage in these games in particular to get to LYLO threshold quicker & Merk was a strong enough player that if he had another day, he could probably talk his way out of it.

I’ve discussed my defense and why it is legitimate. As for the Pod casing and lurker callout, I will admit this was during the time when I was travelling and was more preoccupied with packing/getting stuff ready/worrying about flights than paying full attention to the thread. Real life extends into my day 3 play. I still was mostly glancing at the thread and not really giving it my undivided attention. I didn’t really read the posts too strongly and still felt bad about Pod based on how day 1 shook up. I have a strong town read on MMT because of her being the first to flip back onto Solus and being the first to take action based on her misgivings on Solus emotion posting. I cannot see the benefit of any scum player flipping back onto bussing Merk with the context at the time. That’s my primary strong read of MMT, though if anything in the thread has caused that to change, I haven’t read it as I’ve mostly been glancing over.

I know my defence of my Day 2 and 3 gameplay has been pretty lacklustre. I don’t really have much more arguments to give apart from my life being incredibly busy and not being conducive towards reading and posting. I’m sorry to everyone for my lovely play this game and I genuinely feel bad about how things have turned out atm.

This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out:

merk posted:

I'm making a general self-reflecting statement about my scum game. It doesn't have any impact on this game because I'm town, and I'm not trying to make it to try to influence what anyone thinks about the alignment of any other player.

merk posted:

I would unvote Toal if he claimed Cop, even if I thought it was a fakeclaim.

merk posted:

Give Humalong a read and let me know what you think.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Looking back I actually don't see where you made a case. In fact you call out MMT for a cliché meta read on Pod.

The only interaction with Pod I saw is where Pod had asked for some response and you explained, but I don't see where you actively cased him. You also advocated for toal's lunch after kind of fizzling off mmt. And were pretty strongly on solus from what I can tell prior to their appeal.

I did find Pod to be a bit frantic around deadline, but that's mostly because their response to my kash case and vote was a wet fart.

All things considered, I'm not opposed to looking there, I just don't see where you actually made an effort to toss suspicion there until today.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Some players are Machiavellian and play only for the crushing victory of their plebeian adversaries.

(LOOKING AT YOU LUMPEN AND GASPY)
(two of my favorite players in all honesty lol)

Neither of the flipped scum has ever meaningfully addressed or engaged you over the course of this entire game. In fact, AA never addressed or brought you up after Day 1, despite you being a relatively easy target due to your lurking. ##vote Jimmy

Self-excusing for travel or not, I stand by my case on you from yesterday.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

Apologies to people if I came off as unnecessarily harsh yesterday. I still maintain that I wish people would try to win the games of mafia that they sign up for but I wish I expressed that better. That said, woo we got another one! :peanut:

Coming into d4, I'm starting to grow more and more suspicious of Pod. :sadpeanut:

1. I can't think of a logical reason for any other scum to have NK'ed Kash last night (who was suspicious of Pod / barely playing / would have made a great patsy today) over me (who leaned town on Pod / was active on both scum executions / most people seem to lean town on I think?).
2. He's gone out of his way a few times to mention a town read on me, and has agreed with a majority of my opinions. Historically I have a blind spot for scum who buddy up to me and I'm pretty sure Pod knows that.
3. Despite being in on the merk/AA cases, his primary push on each day has been on someone else (Toal on d1, Solus/IP on d2, jimmy on d3)

I'm not going to vote yet since we're nearing the end of the game but right now I think Pod is near the top of my list.

Consider this: What if I'm being set up? I agree the Kash kill makes zero sense otherwise, since his only meaningful opinion was to yell about me being scum to the exclusion of all else, so it's almost too cut and dry.

I fully acknowledge I have been Not On The Ball this game but I still think it's kind of rough how you're framing the way the votes on scum have gone! (For the record, on D1 my Toal push was well before the merk thing, if you want to stomp on my face then point out my attempt to channel Max that turned into an almost-hang on Solus D1 instead of merk.) Especially re: jimmy d3, I largely wanted to get that case out there because I saw it while rereading and didn't want the entire goddamn thread to succumb to apathy without something meaningful to go on if I got NKed.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Dick Bastardly posted:

Ok, so I've re-read AA.

AA talked about and put suss on a handful of players, some of whom have flipped town and the others I could see as being town.

This lead me to think "who is AA not talking about?"

TM is the player that came to mind.

Then I read this series of posts:




all of which came within a span of five minutes. AA does mention a few posts later that TM would be a good vote for low content posting, but I think AA lacks a substantial case against TM. It's reads like AA is putting TM out there just to appear like they have a townie opinion. But now it looks a little more like it could be light bussing (that at the time AA probably thought wouldn't go anywhere and thus scumbro TM would be safe)

next item,


AA pushes MMT hard probably more than any other player. Knowing that AA is scum now gives a lot of credit to MMT and makes the bolded part above look weird as it relates to FL (another player in addition to TM that is sparsely featured in AA's posting). I had weird gut feels about FL early so now I think i'll re-read FL and see where that goes.

All being said, I lean scum on TM (not only for how AA treats TM but also for their lack luster play as well) and am slightly suss of FL based on AA's "is MMT town, FL town too" comment.

Yes I would like to see your reread as an actual followthrough. Thank you.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

You've read as genuine town to me this whole game and your explanation post reads like a town player explaining their thought processes in a believable (to me) manner.


This case on Jimmy, to me, looks more like a scum frame job than a real case. I did pretty close to the same thing Jimmy did with my votes d1 (merk -> solus -> merk), I think that being suspicious of Pod was a totally fair opinion to have d2, and I don't see why saying "gonna catch up" and not doing it is a scumtell when (a) he's explained that he's travelling cross-country and (b) pretty much everyone has been doing the same thing to various degrees.

The distinction here is you had actual content and consideration behind your votes, while jimmy largely amounted to a nothingburger. I understand where you're coming from but please do me the kindness of rereading my case on jimmy with a fresh mind and what I pointed out about the two flipped scum, travel stuff aside.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

Oh man please don't let this game day be another instance of no one posting anything followed by a bunch of people saying the deadline was inconvenient, I can only take so many of those :ohdearsass:

Hi

Dick Bastardly

Flying Leatherman

Mr. Humalong

Tired Moritz


:justpost:

jimmydalad
Sep 26, 2013

My face when others are unable to appreciate the :kazooieass:

AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor

Podima posted:

This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out:

Neither of the flipped scum has ever meaningfully addressed or engaged you over the course of this entire game. In fact, AA never addressed or brought you up after Day 1, despite you being a relatively easy target due to your lurking. ##vote Jimmy

Self-excusing for travel or not, I stand by my case on you from yesterday.

Like I’m not even sure how I’m supposed to approach this argument. I can’t control other people’s actions. As for why I wasn’t brought up, most of those days had larger discussions happening plus I was relatively active at the start of Day 2 before I had to fly and deal with jetlag. I mean at the end of the day it mostly came down to people being suspicious of Solus/IP based off Merk’s actions and his dubious claim of backup at the time, which proved to be true. The only real lurking cases from day 2 IIRC was IP going in on Beet for content lurking as well as Kash.

As for Day 3, it started with Humalong commenting on either Pod or MMT. I responded that I was more suspicious of Pod than MMT and have been since day 2. It was at this point I was dealing with jetlag and not really following posts as well as dealing with travelling to New Zealand so I basically am like a dead fish. In general, there was a bigger conversation going on about AA and there weren’t really an6 lurker cases being made. Even AA’s votes on TM were more about their posting history than their lurking tendencies.

I don’t know why I wasn’t brought up, but I feel like there were bigger things to talk about during the days than locking down lurkers. I dunno what other argument I could possibly make against it.

Podima posted:

The distinction here is you had actual content and consideration behind your votes, while jimmy largely amounted to a nothingburger. I understand where you're coming from but please do me the kindness of rereading my case on jimmy with a fresh mind and what I pointed out about the two flipped scum, travel stuff aside.

I’m sorry, I’m going to have to call bullshit on this. How could posts like this be a nothingburger?

jimmydalad posted:

God, when laid out like that, Solus’s posting looks really bad. I dunno if there’s enough people around who would want to vote for Solus, but I’m sorely tempted to switch my vote.

jimmydalad posted:

This same argument applies to Solus, if not more so. How can you look at his vote on Merk and judge that to be Town?

jimmydalad posted:

I mean MMT has stated previously Solus was her number 1 vote. Merk is voting because it probably is him otherwise and I felt like Pod made a convincing enough argument that I feel that Solus is a stronger scum read than Merk. It’s not like the vote changed over purely because of Pod. Kash already had his vote on Solus anyways.

jimmydalad posted:

Ahhh I don’t know what to do. Like I need to sleep soon but I’m feeling real bad for Solus and I think he’s being genuine. :ohdear:

jimmydalad posted:

I’m honestly getting shades of Sal in CYOR with Solus atm. I can’t imagine a scum Solus playing dejected this well plus if he was scum, he’d be talking with scum chat to try and get a way out of this.

jimmydalad posted:

This is a bad argument because emotional reactions are legitimate reads and can definitely infer motivations of players. While there are reasons for you being suspicious, the way you are playing right now is not something a scum player would be doing. The strongest thing about scum apart from being the informed minority is that you are in a group and can communicate with one another at anytime. If you were scum, your scum buddies would be helping you.

I’m feeling solid that you are Town. If you don’t want to play anymore, that’s an entirely different matter.

jimmydalad posted:

I’m voting ##vote Merk. I refuse to vote for Solus. I cannot feasibly see a scum reacting in this way.

jimmydalad posted:

I may still be traumatised from watching Sal in CYOR. That was a harrowing read as an observer. If Solus is scum, it’s some master level manipulation so kudos to them.

jimmydalad posted:

Trying to get a Humalong case going at this time makes me more comfortable with the vote. If he does flip town, we’ll definitely have conversation points to go off of.

jimmydalad posted:

If he does flip town, that’s definitely a place we can start. Toal as well for pushing so hard. Merk is a better vote for lynching than a lurker as we have much more to go off the next day.


Ive laid out all of my thought processes for Day 1, almost as much if not more than MMT during the day one votes between Solus and Merk. I didn’t just casually throw my votes behind people without an actual explanation as to why I changed my vote that way. I was clear with my thought processes and explained them in the thread. Heck, MMT agreed with my reason for having a town read on Solus and cited it in an argument against you.

Murmur Twin posted:

Strong disagree, I agree with Jimmy that it's got "sal from CYOR" vibes all over it.

It feels like you’re trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance of making my day 1 actions seeming scum-like even though MMT did pretty much the exact same thing I did and her actions are seen as town. My votes had purpose and thought behind them and they were certainly not a nothingburger. If you’re trying to argue that my day 1 actions are suspicious, then MMT’s should be seen by you as suspicious as well. I don’t think they are and that’s why I believe that she is town.

jimmydalad
Sep 26, 2013

My face when others are unable to appreciate the :kazooieass:

AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor

Tired Moritz posted:

##vote jimmy

Hey there TM? Mind expanding your thoughts on me? I assume you’re just agreeing with Pod’s case, but how do you feel about the rebuttals that Pod and I have produced? I assume you have thoughts on the matter considering your first post is just a vote for me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Podima posted:

Consider this: What if I'm being set up? I agree the Kash kill makes zero sense otherwise, since his only meaningful opinion was to yell about me being scum to the exclusion of all else, so it's almost too cut and dry.

Haha that's a fair thing to worry about - I think a lot of my case on you started with "what if I'm being set up?" :j:

That said, running the numbers I feel fairly confident that with 2 scum dead, we have at least one mislynch before MYLO/LYLO. I think 3 scum is the norm for 13 players but I'm not ruling out 4 (and if it's four, I think it's Pod/DB). While I certainly don't want to get anything wrong, I'm going into this argument assuming that we can afford to miss one.

I feel like there's two possible explanations to the Kash NK:

(a) Scum Pod covering his bases
(b) Scum someone-else trying to frame Town Pod

And when I try to examine the possibility of (b), I just don't think anyone else here as scum would bother making that play as opposed to just killing me or Pod and leaving behind a fairly hands-off town.

Podima posted:

This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out:

Neither of the flipped scum has ever meaningfully addressed or engaged you over the course of this entire game. In fact, AA never addressed or brought you up after Day 1, despite you being a relatively easy target due to your lurking. ##vote Jimmy

Self-excusing for travel or not, I stand by my case on you from yesterday.

---

The distinction here is you had actual content and consideration behind your votes, while jimmy largely amounted to a nothingburger. I understand where you're coming from but please do me the kindness of rereading my case on jimmy with a fresh mind and what I pointed out about the two flipped scum, travel stuff aside.

Like in order for Jimmy to be scum, we have to assume that he decided that strategically it was better for him to kill Kash than to kill you (who was actively casing him), which would imply that he strategically went into this game day ready to push you. So far, he's mainly stuck to defending himself from your case, which makes me think that "frame Pod for surviving the NK" wasn't on his agenda.

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Scum Jimmy NKs Kash over Pod, but it seems extremely improbable to me.

Also, I 100% agreed with Jimmy re: the Solus emotional appeal, and it turned out to be right. I don't see how he loses town cred for that? Actually, I think that's a good way to put it: I think Pod's d4 case on Jimmy sounds like his d2 case on IP - a logically air-tight case that's hard to refute, aimed at a patsy.

I'm going to ##vote Podima for now.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Also here's a quick meta read to supplement the Pod case:

On the second-to-last day of Commercials Mafia, we were down to five players. I spent the whole game with a town read on Scum Pod, and he kept me alive. On the second-to-last day, Kash claimed to have a scum read on Pod, and then was NK'ed, leaving me/Pod/Glowku alive to duke it out in the most comically polite LYLO ever.

I went back to read that game mostly because I was having deja vu and thought it was a funny story, and in doing so read Pod's scum game. It reads a lot like his play in this game here - well thought-out cases that are sound but ultimately aimed at town more often than scum.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)

jimmydalad posted:

Hey there TM? Mind expanding your thoughts on me? I assume you’re just agreeing with Pod’s case, but how do you feel about the rebuttals that Pod and I have produced? I assume you have thoughts on the matter considering your first post is just a vote for me.

honestly it was just another vote for the highest poster before I afked and do other stuff

what, it was the start of the day. I think I'm allowed to do whatever.

I'll reread in a bit, but I'm gonna say that DB is already dead wrong. And they're a replacement too *wink wink*

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
##unvote

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

Tired Moritz posted:

honestly it was just another vote for the highest poster before I afked and do other stuff

what, it was the start of the day. I think I'm allowed to do whatever.

I'll reread in a bit, but I'm gonna say that DB is already dead wrong. And they're a replacement too *wink wink*

...what is this?

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
it's a post

reading back, I'm definitely getting a town read on jimmy, so sorry brah. Pod is still straddling the fence for me. MMT is obviously town at this point.

DB and Hum though. I think I need to see more opinions from them. And I literally keep forgetting FL is still in this game, which is pretty bad!! And they started so strong at the beginning too.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe
Honestly I didn't realize the game opened early so I'm just now catching up. My initial instinct was to suspect pod after the early vote last night but with AA flipping scum it makes his irritation feel a lot more genuine. I don't see scum playing like that with this many people left in the game.

My initial takeaway from yesterday is that Hum trying to float Jimmy as a vote target later in the day yesterday doesn't feel great to me in light of the AA flip.

I will re-read Jimmy, TM, and DB this morning in light of the flip and see what jumps out at me. I do not read either Pod or MMT as scum

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe
For the record I don't buy the rationale that Kash was killed because he was suspicious of Pod, either as a frame up or as a genuine motivation; I would think scum would be more concerned with cop hunting especially going into day 4

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
Votecount for Day 4

Podima (1): Murmur Twin
jimmydalad (1): Tired Moritz, Podima, Tired Moritz

Not Voting (5): Dick Bastardly, Flying Leatherman, jimmydalad, Mr. Humalong, Tired Moritz

With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 21st, 2018 at 9 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 11 hours.

Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
I doubt scum would think theres a cop when we already have a doc/backup dead in this game

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Tired Moritz posted:

I doubt scum would think theres a cop when we already have a doc/backup dead in this game

Not sure I agree with 3 scum in the game. At the very least, it's not out of the realm of possibility, I would imagine scum would think the same

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Flying Leatherman posted:

For the record I don't buy the rationale that Kash was killed because he was suspicious of Pod, either as a frame up or as a genuine motivation; I would think scum would be more concerned with cop hunting especially going into day 4

Why would scum think Kash was a cop?

I think Occam's Razor applies here and that Scum Pod killing the person who suspected him the most makes a million times more sense than scum (a) fearing a cop who hadn't claimed by d3, (b) thinking that cop was Kash, and (c) deciding to kill him even though he spent D3 defending AA and attacking Pod.

Flying Leatherman posted:

Not sure I agree with 3 scum in the game. At the very least, it's not out of the realm of possibility, I would imagine scum would think the same

Just trying to make sure I parse this correctly: are you saying that you don't think there's 3 scum in the game? Or that, with 3 scum in the game, their priority would be to go after the cop?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Flying Leatherman posted:

who the third scum is (and I strongly feel there's a third scum given the wording of the OP and a flipped backup)

Can you explain your thought process re: the above?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Podima posted:

I had a pretty strong town read on FL for admittedly meta reasons (would a scum FL come in as hot as she did on day 1 in their first game in a while) but I see your point here. That being said I still feel like the rest of their D1 posting, town read on merk aside, was fine from memory? How early did that town read get made by FL?

---

Ok I disagree with this post a lot wow. You're excusing a lot on the basis of "well they didn't go after me so" and that's either self conscious scum or overly charitable town. (Unlike mmt I don't necessarily think this is the golden goose scum slip) Setting aside their lack of jumping on you, would you think they were scum?

---

This is interesting. Between the two of them I feel like AA is scummier than FL, but the fact that they've not meaningfully commented on each other prior to your prodding is notable, and I still disagree with how they both jumped on your post like that.

Pod, what's your read on FL?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Flying Leatherman posted:

Honestly I didn't realize the game opened early so I'm just now catching up. My initial instinct was to suspect pod after the early vote last night but with AA flipping scum it makes his irritation feel a lot more genuine. I don't see scum playing like that with this many people left in the game.

Playing like what? There were four votes on AA and it was clear no one else had momentum, you don't think that Scum Pod would hammer Scum AA for town cred (as opposed to not voting and standing out like a sore thumb)?

I don't think irritation at lurkers is alignment-specific.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
In case people are just skimming my posts (:sigh:), the implication here is that I think that FL/Pod are both scum covering for each other.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Murmur Twin posted:

Or that, with 3 scum in the game, their priority would be to go after the cop?

It’s this one. We’re on day 4, and scum should be getting nervous at this point as with enough town checks the game could be sufficiently solved...today or tomorrow, I think.

Murmur Twin posted:

In case people are just skimming my posts (:sigh:), the implication here is that I think that FL/Pod are both scum covering for each other.

Four scum in a 13-player game?

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Murmur Twin posted:

Playing like what? There were four votes on AA and it was clear no one else had momentum, you don't think that Scum Pod would hammer Scum AA for town cred (as opposed to not voting and standing out like a sore thumb)?

I don't think irritation at lurkers is alignment-specific.

Sure, with this many players left in the game and only 1 scum left after AA dies (I’m assuming 3 scum, as I noted in my last post, and also based on the OP where Max says “2-3 scum” pretty explicitly), not seeing scum hammering in that way.

(Incidentally, if your “Pod and FL are scum together” theory is to be considered correct, that would be some really weird voting yesterday - what motivation would both of us have to drive that kind of a vote yesterday, when with the activity level it could have absolutely been pushed elsewhere or headed to deadline with no execute due to apathy?)

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Flying Leatherman posted:

Sure, with this many players left in the game and only 1 scum left after AA dies (I’m assuming 3 scum, as I noted in my last post, and also based on the OP where Max says “2-3 scum” pretty explicitly), not seeing scum hammering in that way.

I didn't see that! Hmm fair.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!
I re-read FL and other than that weird "the only way TM's argument makes sense is if we're both scum" comment (which was defended by an admission that the word "other" was omitted) I read FL as probably town. I don't see FL casing AA as strongly as FL did as a bus.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Murmur Twin posted:

If not Pod, DB would probably be my next-strongest read. I don't think his cases follow the logic of town hunting for scum - in both cases, he reads flipped scum's post history to draw conclusions, but in neither case does he read the actual people he's forming opinions on and make cases based on their actual posts.

this a bit of a mischaracterisation imo, I did say that TM's posting in general was content light and that in addition to TM/AA interation (or lack thereof) was what pinged me. So I did read TM's posts in order to reach that conclusion.

So if you meant that I wasn't quoting specific examples instead of referring to TM's posting in general the I guess I could see where your coming from

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Tired Moritz posted:

##unvote

I have a gut feeling that AA might be third party, but I guess this game might be too small for that?

with the set-up as it is explained in the OP I just cannot figure out where this came from unless it's a quasi-bus

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Tired Moritz posted:

They have 10 posts, and then they afked for the rest of the day, and then they asked for a replacement.

Sounds like someone that doesnt want to play scum imo

(quoted post is a response to questioning about why TM expressed suss on BK/me when asked who TM thought was scum)

I used this argument in another game some time ago and was completely poo poo on for it because it was bad.

It's still bad.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Tired Moritz posted:

nah, AA's switch to Kash reminds me of when I used to switch my vote to someone random in hopes of stalling the lynch when I play scum

The reason I didn't vote Solus earlier is because I'm not a fan of voting someone who just replaced in. That's just unethical.

:wow:

contradiction much?

the evidence keeps mounting folks.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!
I feel pretty good about ##vote TM

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Dick Bastardly posted:

(quoted post is a response to questioning about why TM expressed suss on BK/me when asked who TM thought was scum)

I used this argument in another game some time ago and was completely poo poo on for it because it was bad.

It's still bad.

---

:wow:

contradiction much?

the evidence keeps mounting folks.

##vote DB

None of this reads genuine to me.

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote DB

None of this reads genuine to me.

TM puts suss on me for BK not posting and replacing out (not a good reason to make an alignment call MMT you know this)

TM then posts that voting for a replacement is unethical (um......ok?)

TM then says "hey DB bad, and also a replacement *wink *wink"

I mean the inconsistency is rife

Dick Bastardly
Aug 22, 2012

Muttley is SKYNET!!!
secondly,

if that *wink *wink crap is supposed to be a soft claim then just LOL

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Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I have a hard time seeing 4 scum and only a doctor/backup.

Speculating about it is pretty useless, though.

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