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jimmydalad posted:I mean, Ive been suspicious of Pod from Day 2 so Id be up for a vote on him. I could make an argument of him trying to push a case on me 90 mins from deadline. I feel like its odd that he brought up that case so quick at the end. Maybe its more harsh in hindsight considering that AA flipped scum and I could be doing an OMGUS so Im not going to give my vote to Pod just yet. You've read as genuine town to me this whole game and your explanation post reads like a town player explaining their thought processes in a believable (to me) manner. Podima posted:I mean I see stuff there that makes me raise an eyebrow. Easy link to his post history for others: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3876723&userid=204956&perpage=40&pagenumber=2 This case on Jimmy, to me, looks more like a scum frame job than a real case. I did pretty close to the same thing Jimmy did with my votes d1 (merk -> solus -> merk), I think that being suspicious of Pod was a totally fair opinion to have d2, and I don't see why saying "gonna catch up" and not doing it is a scumtell when (a) he's explained that he's travelling cross-country and (b) pretty much everyone has been doing the same thing to various degrees.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 01:21 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 08:33 |
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Dick Bastardly posted:All being said, I lean scum on TM (not only for how AA treats TM but also for their lack luster play as well) and am slightly suss of FL based on AA's "is MMT town, FL town too" comment. What'd you find when you decided to follow up on your suspicions and re-read TM/FL?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 01:23 |
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Dick Bastardly posted:I mean just look at this. If not Pod, DB would probably be my next-strongest read. I don't think his cases follow the logic of town hunting for scum - in both cases, he reads flipped scum's post history to draw conclusions, but in neither case does he read the actual people he's forming opinions on and make cases based on their actual posts.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 01:31 |
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Oh man please don't let this game day be another instance of no one posting anything followed by a bunch of people saying the deadline was inconvenient, I can only take so many of those
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 02:26 |
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jimmydalad posted:I was only jumping back and forth during the time when legitimate arguments were being made as to why the votes were going in that direction. At the time, Pod came into the thread and argued that Solus was a better case than Merk. I felt like his case had merit and that was why I initially moved my vote to Solus. Once Solus emotion posted, I got a strong town read from him and out of the group that swung onto Solus, I was the second person to swing back to Merk and provided an argument as to why the emotion post is a legitimate town read. Toal and Huma were pretty much locked onto Merk at that point and that was why I didn’t include them in my argument post of being one of first to vote for Merk. I was arguing from the context of those who we’re part of the Solus voteswing. This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out: merk posted:I'm making a general self-reflecting statement about my scum game. It doesn't have any impact on this game because I'm town, and I'm not trying to make it to try to influence what anyone thinks about the alignment of any other player. merk posted:I would unvote Toal if he claimed Cop, even if I thought it was a fakeclaim. merk posted:Give Humalong a read and let me know what you think. Anomalous Amalgam posted:Looking back I actually don't see where you made a case. In fact you call out MMT for a cliché meta read on Pod. Anomalous Amalgam posted:Some players are Machiavellian and play only for the crushing victory of their plebeian adversaries. Neither of the flipped scum has ever meaningfully addressed or engaged you over the course of this entire game. In fact, AA never addressed or brought you up after Day 1, despite you being a relatively easy target due to your lurking. ##vote Jimmy Self-excusing for travel or not, I stand by my case on you from yesterday.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 03:19 |
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Murmur Twin posted:Apologies to people if I came off as unnecessarily harsh yesterday. I still maintain that I wish people would try to win the games of mafia that they sign up for but I wish I expressed that better. That said, woo we got another one! Consider this: What if I'm being set up? I agree the Kash kill makes zero sense otherwise, since his only meaningful opinion was to yell about me being scum to the exclusion of all else, so it's almost too cut and dry. I fully acknowledge I have been Not On The Ball this game but I still think it's kind of rough how you're framing the way the votes on scum have gone! (For the record, on D1 my Toal push was well before the merk thing, if you want to stomp on my face then point out my attempt to channel Max that turned into an almost-hang on Solus D1 instead of merk.) Especially re: jimmy d3, I largely wanted to get that case out there because I saw it while rereading and didn't want the entire goddamn thread to succumb to apathy without something meaningful to go on if I got NKed.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 03:30 |
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Dick Bastardly posted:Ok, so I've re-read AA. Yes I would like to see your reread as an actual followthrough. Thank you.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 03:34 |
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Murmur Twin posted:You've read as genuine town to me this whole game and your explanation post reads like a town player explaining their thought processes in a believable (to me) manner. The distinction here is you had actual content and consideration behind your votes, while jimmy largely amounted to a nothingburger. I understand where you're coming from but please do me the kindness of rereading my case on jimmy with a fresh mind and what I pointed out about the two flipped scum, travel stuff aside.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 03:37 |
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Murmur Twin posted:Oh man please don't let this game day be another instance of no one posting anything followed by a bunch of people saying the deadline was inconvenient, I can only take so many of those Hi Dick Bastardly Flying Leatherman Mr. Humalong Tired Moritz
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 03:38 |
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Podima posted:This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out: Like I’m not even sure how I’m supposed to approach this argument. I can’t control other people’s actions. As for why I wasn’t brought up, most of those days had larger discussions happening plus I was relatively active at the start of Day 2 before I had to fly and deal with jetlag. I mean at the end of the day it mostly came down to people being suspicious of Solus/IP based off Merk’s actions and his dubious claim of backup at the time, which proved to be true. The only real lurking cases from day 2 IIRC was IP going in on Beet for content lurking as well as Kash. As for Day 3, it started with Humalong commenting on either Pod or MMT. I responded that I was more suspicious of Pod than MMT and have been since day 2. It was at this point I was dealing with jetlag and not really following posts as well as dealing with travelling to New Zealand so I basically am like a dead fish. In general, there was a bigger conversation going on about AA and there weren’t really an6 lurker cases being made. Even AA’s votes on TM were more about their posting history than their lurking tendencies. I don’t know why I wasn’t brought up, but I feel like there were bigger things to talk about during the days than locking down lurkers. I dunno what other argument I could possibly make against it. Podima posted:The distinction here is you had actual content and consideration behind your votes, while jimmy largely amounted to a nothingburger. I understand where you're coming from but please do me the kindness of rereading my case on jimmy with a fresh mind and what I pointed out about the two flipped scum, travel stuff aside. I’m sorry, I’m going to have to call bullshit on this. How could posts like this be a nothingburger? jimmydalad posted:God, when laid out like that, Solus’s posting looks really bad. I dunno if there’s enough people around who would want to vote for Solus, but I’m sorely tempted to switch my vote. jimmydalad posted:This same argument applies to Solus, if not more so. How can you look at his vote on Merk and judge that to be Town? jimmydalad posted:I mean MMT has stated previously Solus was her number 1 vote. Merk is voting because it probably is him otherwise and I felt like Pod made a convincing enough argument that I feel that Solus is a stronger scum read than Merk. It’s not like the vote changed over purely because of Pod. Kash already had his vote on Solus anyways. jimmydalad posted:Ahhh I don’t know what to do. Like I need to sleep soon but I’m feeling real bad for Solus and I think he’s being genuine. jimmydalad posted:I’m honestly getting shades of Sal in CYOR with Solus atm. I can’t imagine a scum Solus playing dejected this well plus if he was scum, he’d be talking with scum chat to try and get a way out of this. jimmydalad posted:This is a bad argument because emotional reactions are legitimate reads and can definitely infer motivations of players. While there are reasons for you being suspicious, the way you are playing right now is not something a scum player would be doing. The strongest thing about scum apart from being the informed minority is that you are in a group and can communicate with one another at anytime. If you were scum, your scum buddies would be helping you. jimmydalad posted:I’m voting ##vote Merk. I refuse to vote for Solus. I cannot feasibly see a scum reacting in this way. jimmydalad posted:I may still be traumatised from watching Sal in CYOR. That was a harrowing read as an observer. If Solus is scum, it’s some master level manipulation so kudos to them. jimmydalad posted:Trying to get a Humalong case going at this time makes me more comfortable with the vote. If he does flip town, we’ll definitely have conversation points to go off of. jimmydalad posted:If he does flip town, that’s definitely a place we can start. Toal as well for pushing so hard. Merk is a better vote for lynching than a lurker as we have much more to go off the next day. Ive laid out all of my thought processes for Day 1, almost as much if not more than MMT during the day one votes between Solus and Merk. I didn’t just casually throw my votes behind people without an actual explanation as to why I changed my vote that way. I was clear with my thought processes and explained them in the thread. Heck, MMT agreed with my reason for having a town read on Solus and cited it in an argument against you. Murmur Twin posted:Strong disagree, I agree with Jimmy that it's got "sal from CYOR" vibes all over it. It feels like you’re trying to deal with the cognitive dissonance of making my day 1 actions seeming scum-like even though MMT did pretty much the exact same thing I did and her actions are seen as town. My votes had purpose and thought behind them and they were certainly not a nothingburger. If you’re trying to argue that my day 1 actions are suspicious, then MMT’s should be seen by you as suspicious as well. I don’t think they are and that’s why I believe that she is town.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 06:09 |
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Tired Moritz posted:##vote jimmy Hey there TM? Mind expanding your thoughts on me? I assume you’re just agreeing with Pod’s case, but how do you feel about the rebuttals that Pod and I have produced? I assume you have thoughts on the matter considering your first post is just a vote for me.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 06:12 |
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Podima posted:Consider this: What if I'm being set up? I agree the Kash kill makes zero sense otherwise, since his only meaningful opinion was to yell about me being scum to the exclusion of all else, so it's almost too cut and dry. Haha that's a fair thing to worry about - I think a lot of my case on you started with "what if I'm being set up?" That said, running the numbers I feel fairly confident that with 2 scum dead, we have at least one mislynch before MYLO/LYLO. I think 3 scum is the norm for 13 players but I'm not ruling out 4 (and if it's four, I think it's Pod/DB). While I certainly don't want to get anything wrong, I'm going into this argument assuming that we can afford to miss one. I feel like there's two possible explanations to the Kash NK: (a) Scum Pod covering his bases (b) Scum someone-else trying to frame Town Pod And when I try to examine the possibility of (b), I just don't think anyone else here as scum would bother making that play as opposed to just killing me or Pod and leaving behind a fairly hands-off town. Podima posted:This is a lot of self-defense based around travel and susceptibility to Solus' emotional appeal (which I still think is a poor rationale for making alignment calls, regardless of how it shook out this game) and it's good and all that you deem it legitimate but I'm going to point something very basic and significant out: Like in order for Jimmy to be scum, we have to assume that he decided that strategically it was better for him to kill Kash than to kill you (who was actively casing him), which would imply that he strategically went into this game day ready to push you. So far, he's mainly stuck to defending himself from your case, which makes me think that "frame Pod for surviving the NK" wasn't on his agenda. I'm not saying that it's impossible that Scum Jimmy NKs Kash over Pod, but it seems extremely improbable to me. Also, I 100% agreed with Jimmy re: the Solus emotional appeal, and it turned out to be right. I don't see how he loses town cred for that? Actually, I think that's a good way to put it: I think Pod's d4 case on Jimmy sounds like his d2 case on IP - a logically air-tight case that's hard to refute, aimed at a patsy. I'm going to ##vote Podima for now.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 07:44 |
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Also here's a quick meta read to supplement the Pod case: On the second-to-last day of Commercials Mafia, we were down to five players. I spent the whole game with a town read on Scum Pod, and he kept me alive. On the second-to-last day, Kash claimed to have a scum read on Pod, and then was NK'ed, leaving me/Pod/Glowku alive to duke it out in the most comically polite LYLO ever. I went back to read that game mostly because I was having deja vu and thought it was a funny story, and in doing so read Pod's scum game. It reads a lot like his play in this game here - well thought-out cases that are sound but ultimately aimed at town more often than scum.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 07:55 |
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jimmydalad posted:Hey there TM? Mind expanding your thoughts on me? I assume you’re just agreeing with Pod’s case, but how do you feel about the rebuttals that Pod and I have produced? I assume you have thoughts on the matter considering your first post is just a vote for me. honestly it was just another vote for the highest poster before I afked and do other stuff what, it was the start of the day. I think I'm allowed to do whatever. I'll reread in a bit, but I'm gonna say that DB is already dead wrong. And they're a replacement too *wink wink*
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 08:31 |
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##unvote
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 08:33 |
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Tired Moritz posted:honestly it was just another vote for the highest poster before I afked and do other stuff ...what is this?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 12:00 |
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it's a post reading back, I'm definitely getting a town read on jimmy, so sorry brah. Pod is still straddling the fence for me. MMT is obviously town at this point. DB and Hum though. I think I need to see more opinions from them. And I literally keep forgetting FL is still in this game, which is pretty bad!! And they started so strong at the beginning too.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 12:24 |
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Honestly I didn't realize the game opened early so I'm just now catching up. My initial instinct was to suspect pod after the early vote last night but with AA flipping scum it makes his irritation feel a lot more genuine. I don't see scum playing like that with this many people left in the game. My initial takeaway from yesterday is that Hum trying to float Jimmy as a vote target later in the day yesterday doesn't feel great to me in light of the AA flip. I will re-read Jimmy, TM, and DB this morning in light of the flip and see what jumps out at me. I do not read either Pod or MMT as scum
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 14:17 |
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For the record I don't buy the rationale that Kash was killed because he was suspicious of Pod, either as a frame up or as a genuine motivation; I would think scum would be more concerned with cop hunting especially going into day 4
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 15:10 |
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Votecount for Day 4 Podima (1): Murmur Twin jimmydalad (1): Tired Moritz, Podima, Not Voting (5): Dick Bastardly, Flying Leatherman, jimmydalad, Mr. Humalong, Tired Moritz With 7 alive, it's 4 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 21st, 2018 at 9 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 11 hours.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 15:21 |
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I doubt scum would think theres a cop when we already have a doc/backup dead in this game
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 15:21 |
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Tired Moritz posted:I doubt scum would think theres a cop when we already have a doc/backup dead in this game Not sure I agree with 3 scum in the game. At the very least, it's not out of the realm of possibility, I would imagine scum would think the same
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 16:20 |
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Flying Leatherman posted:For the record I don't buy the rationale that Kash was killed because he was suspicious of Pod, either as a frame up or as a genuine motivation; I would think scum would be more concerned with cop hunting especially going into day 4 Why would scum think Kash was a cop? I think Occam's Razor applies here and that Scum Pod killing the person who suspected him the most makes a million times more sense than scum (a) fearing a cop who hadn't claimed by d3, (b) thinking that cop was Kash, and (c) deciding to kill him even though he spent D3 defending AA and attacking Pod. Flying Leatherman posted:Not sure I agree with 3 scum in the game. At the very least, it's not out of the realm of possibility, I would imagine scum would think the same Just trying to make sure I parse this correctly: are you saying that you don't think there's 3 scum in the game? Or that, with 3 scum in the game, their priority would be to go after the cop?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:10 |
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Flying Leatherman posted:who the third scum is (and I strongly feel there's a third scum given the wording of the OP and a flipped backup) Can you explain your thought process re: the above?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:20 |
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Podima posted:I had a pretty strong town read on FL for admittedly meta reasons (would a scum FL come in as hot as she did on day 1 in their first game in a while) but I see your point here. That being said I still feel like the rest of their D1 posting, town read on merk aside, was fine from memory? How early did that town read get made by FL? Pod, what's your read on FL?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:29 |
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Flying Leatherman posted:Honestly I didn't realize the game opened early so I'm just now catching up. My initial instinct was to suspect pod after the early vote last night but with AA flipping scum it makes his irritation feel a lot more genuine. I don't see scum playing like that with this many people left in the game. Playing like what? There were four votes on AA and it was clear no one else had momentum, you don't think that Scum Pod would hammer Scum AA for town cred (as opposed to not voting and standing out like a sore thumb)? I don't think irritation at lurkers is alignment-specific.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:33 |
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In case people are just skimming my posts (), the implication here is that I think that FL/Pod are both scum covering for each other.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:34 |
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Murmur Twin posted:Or that, with 3 scum in the game, their priority would be to go after the cop? It’s this one. We’re on day 4, and scum should be getting nervous at this point as with enough town checks the game could be sufficiently solved...today or tomorrow, I think. Murmur Twin posted:In case people are just skimming my posts (), the implication here is that I think that FL/Pod are both scum covering for each other. Four scum in a 13-player game?
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:48 |
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Murmur Twin posted:Playing like what? There were four votes on AA and it was clear no one else had momentum, you don't think that Scum Pod would hammer Scum AA for town cred (as opposed to not voting and standing out like a sore thumb)? Sure, with this many players left in the game and only 1 scum left after AA dies (I’m assuming 3 scum, as I noted in my last post, and also based on the OP where Max says “2-3 scum” pretty explicitly), not seeing scum hammering in that way. (Incidentally, if your “Pod and FL are scum together” theory is to be considered correct, that would be some really weird voting yesterday - what motivation would both of us have to drive that kind of a vote yesterday, when with the activity level it could have absolutely been pushed elsewhere or headed to deadline with no execute due to apathy?)
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 18:52 |
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Flying Leatherman posted:Sure, with this many players left in the game and only 1 scum left after AA dies (I’m assuming 3 scum, as I noted in my last post, and also based on the OP where Max says “2-3 scum” pretty explicitly), not seeing scum hammering in that way. I didn't see that! Hmm fair.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 20:05 |
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I re-read FL and other than that weird "the only way TM's argument makes sense is if we're both scum" comment (which was defended by an admission that the word "other" was omitted) I read FL as probably town. I don't see FL casing AA as strongly as FL did as a bus.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:23 |
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Murmur Twin posted:If not Pod, DB would probably be my next-strongest read. I don't think his cases follow the logic of town hunting for scum - in both cases, he reads flipped scum's post history to draw conclusions, but in neither case does he read the actual people he's forming opinions on and make cases based on their actual posts. this a bit of a mischaracterisation imo, I did say that TM's posting in general was content light and that in addition to TM/AA interation (or lack thereof) was what pinged me. So I did read TM's posts in order to reach that conclusion. So if you meant that I wasn't quoting specific examples instead of referring to TM's posting in general the I guess I could see where your coming from
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:29 |
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Tired Moritz posted:##unvote with the set-up as it is explained in the OP I just cannot figure out where this came from unless it's a quasi-bus
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:34 |
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Tired Moritz posted:They have 10 posts, and then they afked for the rest of the day, and then they asked for a replacement. (quoted post is a response to questioning about why TM expressed suss on BK/me when asked who TM thought was scum) I used this argument in another game some time ago and was completely poo poo on for it because it was bad. It's still bad.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:38 |
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Tired Moritz posted:nah, AA's switch to Kash reminds me of when I used to switch my vote to someone random in hopes of stalling the lynch when I play scum contradiction much? the evidence keeps mounting folks.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:40 |
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I feel pretty good about ##vote TM
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:44 |
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Dick Bastardly posted:(quoted post is a response to questioning about why TM expressed suss on BK/me when asked who TM thought was scum) ##vote DB None of this reads genuine to me.
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:45 |
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Murmur Twin posted:##vote DB TM puts suss on me for BK not posting and replacing out (not a good reason to make an alignment call MMT you know this) TM then posts that voting for a replacement is unethical (um......ok?) TM then says "hey DB bad, and also a replacement *wink *wink" I mean the inconsistency is rife
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:47 |
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secondly, if that *wink *wink crap is supposed to be a soft claim then just LOL
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# ? Dec 20, 2018 23:48 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 08:33 |
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I have a hard time seeing 4 scum and only a doctor/backup. Speculating about it is pretty useless, though.
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# ? Dec 21, 2018 00:35 |