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pointsofdata posted:https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-loneliest-job-in-a-tight-labor-market-11545224400?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/L8FFMNd8iN paywall
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Dec 20, 2018 08:11
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Gazpacho posted:so is that seriously infosys and wipro's game? I've already told infosys to shove off because they flaked three interview appointments in a row (and they're still spamming me about unauthorized applications), but I'm still talking with wipro imagine a random idiot plucked off the street and given two weeks of introductory training in computers. that person will be your boss, and he'll be the most technically proficient of all of your coworkers. you will spend 100% of your time explaining to your peers how to do the tasks they've been assigned. if you're lucky, all tasks for your entire team will begin to be assigned to you, as this allows you to do the work directly instead of indirectly through your idiot peers.
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Dec 20, 2018 08:14
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bob dobbs is dead posted:paywall Crystal Romans, a recruiter in North Carolina, set up a face-to-face interview with a job candidate for a position at a large bank. She confirmed the time, 8:30 a.m., the night before and had a colleague stationed to walk the candidate into the room. When morning came, the candidate never showed. Panicked, Ms. Romans sent text messages. She called. She left the applicant a voice mail. Silence. “It’s a running joke here of the level of audacity,” Ms. Romans said of job candidates’ escalating bad behavior, which frequently includes “ghosting,” or vanishing without a trace on the people trying to hire them. “We don’t forget these things,” Ms. Romans said. “No one forgets.” These are trying times for the nation’s recruiters. Once as popular as prom kings and queens—and often overrun with hundreds of qualified job applications for an open position—recruiters find their standing has shifted in the booming economy. Instead of vying for their attention, would-be workers blow off recruiters’ calls and ignore their emails. ADVERTISEMENT Recruiters report they are stood up, kept waiting for appointments and regularly ridiculed online. That’s because in the tightest labor market since 1969, job seekers have the upper hand, and they know it. Ghosting—when applicants or current employees disappear and are impossible to get ahold of—has become so pervasive in the job market that the Federal Reserve highlighted the trend in its latest Beige Book, a roundup of anecdotal information about regional economic conditions. People who have ignored a job interview say they have reasons for doing so. Gabrielle Papa, a 29-year-old in New York, applied for a data analyst role in January. During an initial phone screening for the position, a company representative asked for her salary history, which she declined to provide, citing local laws that make such a question illegal. ADVERTISEMENT Ms. Papa was invited to an in-person interview but decided the night before that she didn’t want to go through with it. She told the company she wanted to reschedule, and then did not return a follow-up call to set a new time. She soon got hired at a tech company. “I felt very empowered that I knew I could walk away from something that made me feel uncomfortable, and given the market, I could stand a chance to find something else,” Ms. Papa said.  Corus360’s recruiting director, Kristin Miller, checks her LinkedIn account in her office. PHOTO: JOHNATHON KELSO FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL At Corus360, a technology-services company near Atlanta, recruiters have seen an uptick in people canceling interviews at the last minute; one person canceled a phone call three minutes before it was scheduled to begin, said Kristin Miller, director of recruiting at the company. Others fail to show up to interviews or, worse, leave a job only days after starting, without giving notice. The headaches can have financial consequences. Chris Dove Jr., a recruiter in San Antonio, lost $9,000 in commissions in recent weeks after three candidates failed to show up for their first days of work as diesel technicians. All three completed multiple interviews, got hired, filled out HR paperwork and then disappeared. ADVERTISEMENT “It’s a lot like being punched in the gut,” Mr. Dove said. “Even though I got them all the way to the [hiring] point, I get zero dollars.” The client, Mr. Dove’s biggest, dropped him after the candidates ghosted. “Somebody has to be to blame,” he said. “It’s just unfortunate that it’s me.” Loren Boyce, director of talent acquisition at cloud provider DigitalOcean, has been recruiting engineers since the late 1990s and said hiring now is tougher than during the dot-com boom. “You want to bang your head against the wall,” she said, stressing that companies’ hiring managers should share responsibility with recruiters for finding great people. She says she has learned to spot when recruiters on her team have had enough, and sends them home early. “Sometimes I can just tell that they’re done,” she said. ADVERTISEMENT A decade ago, many recruiters could fill roles by contacting candidates on job boards. Many of those sources have dried up, so now they look for untraditional ways to snag potential hires. It’s rare now to catch an already-employed person with the right skill set itching for a change. “We’ve sat at our desks before and said. ‘Are our phones even working anymore? Why is no one calling back?’ ” said Ms. Miller. “You really start to wonder.” Keturah Melton, a recruiter in Fayetteville, N.C., hires for positions that require security clearances at defense contractors. She will send 75 to 100 emails a day to professionals who may be a fit, with maybe 10% responding to say they aren’t interested. Most stay silent. “I would say it’s pretty lonely,” she said, adding that when potential hires do express interest, some engage in never-ending phone tag or promise updated résumés that never appear. One candidate recently cursed Ms. Melton after she called with a job opportunity for a systems-engineering position. “I hate you people,” she said she was told. “He was just saying the ‘f’ word: ‘This is so effing annoying. I don’t know where you got my résumé.’ ” Before Ms. Melton could apologize, he hung up. Longtime industry veterans are quick to note that job seekers may not hold so much power forever. “We could go into a recession,” said Laura Mazzullo, owner of the New York recruiting firm East Side Staffing, “and everyone’s begging for new jobs.”
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Dec 20, 2018 08:23
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the only use of the words salary, pay, compensation etc in that article are in the thing about asking for salary history
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Dec 20, 2018 12:10
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Trimson Grondag 3 posted:the only use of the words salary, pay, compensation etc in that article are in the thing about asking for salary history its actually a complete mystery why they are struggling to get candidates. no one knows. top possibilities include their phones being broken and millenials being feckless
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Dec 20, 2018 12:48
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i’m struggling to figure out why after years of ghosting candidates the candidates don’t give a poo poo about our “relationship” and have started ghosting us 
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Dec 20, 2018 13:37
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had a chat with a disney recruiter. from first impressions i don't think it would be a good time working there
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Dec 20, 2018 16:46
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KidDynamite posted:had a chat with a disney recruiter. from first impressions i don't think it would be a good time working there
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Dec 20, 2018 17:12
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pointsofdata posted:One candidate recently cursed Ms. Melton after she called with a job opportunity for a systems-engineering position. “I hate you people,” she said she was told. “He was just saying the ‘f’ word: ‘This is so effing annoying. I don’t know where you got my résumé.’ ” this could be the entire article
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Dec 20, 2018 17:39
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That would explain why the wipro reps reminded me 4 times to appear at each on site interview
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Dec 20, 2018 17:42
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:there are at least three different scams called "consulting"
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Dec 20, 2018 17:46
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lancemantis posted:which one of those categories fits reducing most of your existing staff and replacing them with people that are employees but you get to manage them like contractors, i.e. the contracting firm you pool them from is the one in charge of all their salary and benefits and employment taxes -- like employees as a service? that is both the indian megacorps and the "regular" IT consulting firms, if you want to pay enough
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Dec 20, 2018 17:56
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Diva Cupcake posted:On the other hand, for PowerPoint being a company's #1 product, they sure can afford some pretty loving swank offices and bennies. The MBBs are cool to work for, not pay. they make most of their money on the accounting/auditing side of the house. management consulting is a sideline. that should not be surprising, if you think about it. every company needs auditors. nobody really needs "management consulting," whatever that is.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:57
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Fallen Hamprince posted:wonder if i ended up filling a row in two different Rando Local Dumbass We'll Never Actually Hire spreadsheets yep
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Dec 20, 2018 17:59
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FMguru posted:i assume this is also where youd slot the big former giants of tech who settle on consulting once their prominence has faded (ibm, xerox, and unisys, and soon hp and dell)? ibm is as much an indian megacorp as infosys or wipro, just less successful. in this day and age ibm gs is often the lowest bidder, and nearly all their staff are imported on h1b or l1 visas hp and dell bought out large pre-existing it consulting firms. hp bought eds. i forget who the gently caress dell bought. both of them later sold their consulting arms because as it turns out, consulting is a terrible business with no synergy with anything xerox and unisys do some consulting, but they also do a lot of nuts and bolts stuff -- like, send a guy to go fix a printer type stuff -- edit: dell bought perot systems in 2009, and sold it to ntt data in 2016. so that means hp bought ross perot's first company (eds) and dell bought ross perot's second company as a response (perot systems). lol.
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Dec 20, 2018 18:01
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here is a tour of ibm india campuses thanks to google image search. they seriously have 60 or 80 towers in india, 100% ibm. obviously i couldn't get photos of all of them
Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 18:09
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pointsofdata posted:its actually a complete mystery why they are struggling to get candidates. no one knows. top possibilities include their phones being broken and millenials being feckless I'll be the complete lack of awareness that this behavior is exactly what recruiters do when times are bad for working americans. "I sent out 100 spam emails today and only 10% responded!" cool, cool, so do you give a personal response to every applicant that doesn't make the first cut during a recession? Ghosting an employer once you're already hired is pretty lovely though, at least send them an email when the job they thought they were getting was completely different (and likely much shittier)
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Dec 20, 2018 19:53
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Which reminds me, despite employers hemming and hawing about how hard it is to hire people... have any tangible changes been made to the interview process? It's still very much a "why should we hire YOU" conversation vs a "why should I work HERE". At my current job, the interview process wasn't too bad, but it was 50 minutes of questions for me during the interview, with 5 minutes of my own questions at the end... for a total of... 20 minutes for me to make as good a decision as I can (which I didn't even use very effectively) Are they really surprised that employees bail once they realize its not what they wanted? If they really wanted to change things why not be more honest and up front about the day to day
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Dec 20, 2018 19:57
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Is LTI/L&T known to be an H1B scam operation? e: lol yeah Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 20:10
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:here is a tour of ibm india campuses thanks to google image search. they seriously have 60 or 80 towers in india, 100% ibm. obviously i couldn't get photos of all of them you are obsessed with india and it’s kind of weird
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Dec 20, 2018 20:14
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while we're naming names here's a helpful reminder not to deal with Motion Recruitment through its brands Jobspring & Workbridge. They're not known to be H1B fraud shops, but they do routinely waste people's time with bait & switch games and long intel-gathering calls/on-sites
Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 20:35
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one of my fond memories from working within a company utilizing illegal employees-as-a-service 'consultants' was that sometimes when the company would go to them for a 'resource' it was pretty obvious that the firm had made up the guys resume for him and he probably wasn't even aware of what was on it because at the end of the day, these companies metrics are asses-in-seats
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Dec 20, 2018 21:15
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im deep in the pipeline at a place, to the point where theyve contacted references, and i wish they would just hurry up and make up their minds one way or the other because yowza i want out
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Dec 20, 2018 22:40
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carry on then posted:you are obsessed with india and it’s kind of weird i have a normal level of interest in
if you think this is obsessive poo poo you should see how i treat the stuff that really matters
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Dec 20, 2018 22:52
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Gazpacho posted:while we're naming names here's a helpful reminder not to deal with Motion Recruitment through its brands Jobspring & Workbridge. They're not known to be H1B fraud shops, but they do routinely waste people's time with bait & switch games and long intel-gathering calls/on-sites that's just every external recruiter
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Dec 20, 2018 22:53
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:if you think this is obsessive poo poo you should see how i treat the stuff that really matters Enough about your shoe collection thou
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Dec 20, 2018 22:55
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:that's just every external recruiter Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 23:00
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fritz posted:im deep in the pipeline at a place, to the point where theyve contacted references, and i wish they would just hurry up and make up their minds one way or the other because yowza i want out if they're at the point that they're contacting your references you're p. much set
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Dec 20, 2018 23:38
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Rex-Goliath posted:if they're at the point that they're contacting your references you're p. much set I had an opportunity turn into a rejection when one of my references spooked my prospective boss and I was unable to talk them through their concerns. My reference felt so guilty about it, they asked never to be used as my reference again, lol.
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Dec 20, 2018 23:46
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alright scored an onsite they're asking that i take a full day off for a 4-5 hour set of interviews. guess it's time to study more algorithms and poo poo.
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Dec 20, 2018 23:49
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pointsofdata posted:Does that sort of mistake matter at all though on a whiteboard test? my typical process as an interviewer for whiteboard coding is giving the problem statement, waiting for a first pass solution or getting stuck, then jumping in and either hinting to get them un-stuck, suggesting test cases that the code doesn't handle, or if it's 100% spot-on extending the problem
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Dec 21, 2018 01:44
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hey ya'll what are some good questions to ask during an interview to find out if a company is garbage i'm totally blanking
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Dec 21, 2018 01:55
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DONT THREAD ON ME posted:hey ya'll what are some good questions to ask during an interview to find out if a company is garbage
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Dec 21, 2018 01:57
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DONT THREAD ON ME posted:hey ya'll what are some good questions to ask during an interview to find out if a company is garbage the pto one from the op seemed to go over ok for me yesterday ("4 weeks a year and yeah we all use it on the regular, no sick leave tho")
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Dec 21, 2018 02:00
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FMguru posted:check the thread op woops, thanks!
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Dec 21, 2018 02:06
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hrm boild water put my advice in there, which was specifically targeted to one poster and not general advice. besides it should be clear at this point that I have no clue about the interviewing process and perhaps software development as well. i think have have been doing something else completley
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Dec 21, 2018 03:09
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regardless, the questions i ask to detect hell companies are what's your QA process? - "devs do it, somehow" is bad - "devs must cover >95% of the code with unit tests and then acceptance testers check independently" is desirable how does code get deployed to production? - "devs do it manually" is outrageously bad, even in a small company - "ops engineers do it manually" is about as bad - "we configure a well-known automated deployment technology to stage and then activate it" is what you're looking for
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Dec 21, 2018 03:51
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any company willing to hire me is a hell company. if it isn't yet ill fix that pdq job offers in pms only please
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Dec 21, 2018 04:11
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Kevin Mitnick P.E. posted:any company willing to hire me is a hell company. 
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Dec 21, 2018 04:38
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Got an on-site technical interview at EA. This should be fun.
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Dec 21, 2018 04:56
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