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Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

resurgam40 posted:

As Fedule said above, it's an example of a game trying to have its cake and eat it too- to be against sexualization and abuse and then to indulge in it and make the player indulge too. Again, the question we asked in DR 2 and the DR anime must be asked: should a thing that is meant to be gross and uncomfortable and rejected by the author be so in our faces that we become sickened, and at what point does it become exploitation of the thing it is ostensibly against? A lot of people quit the game at this point, and I don't blame them; I'll probably never willingly pay money for this game myself. It is the nadir of the series, as far as I'm concerned... fortunately, I cant recall any other part that is quite this bad.

I just don't see it as being the game killer that some people do, I guess. Having your cake and eating it too is something games do near constantly. The biggest example of this is that every year sees the release of a best-selling game that tries to show that war is horrific and terrible and gruesome, then immediately goes "You just got to jump in a flak canon and tear people into bloody pieces with it! Wasn't that badass!? Go online and customize your guns with frilly colors and decals and maybe you can be a professional someday!" Media is filled with that kind of hypocritical duality.

I just don't get it. It's a bad moment, it isn't handled well, but I wouldn't toss out the entire game for it.

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Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Psycho Knight posted:

Also, the sympathy meter for these kids is still sitting around the 0 to 1 mark on the scale. "People didn't help me with my specific hellish suffering, therefore the entire world is horrible and all adults are the same" isn't winning me over to anyone's side. I was worried that Jack/Toko was about to make some stupid sympathy speech when she saved her. Turns out it was just an interrogation opportunity, though.

On a different note, I can't help but wonder why all of the male characters have been used as fodder, but both Hiroko and Kotoko survive their similar situations.

Not really a complaint, just genuine curiosity.

Psycho Knight posted:

That is weird. From what I've seen, the gameplay itself doesn't look bad. It looks like a pretty good game overall. I can sort of understand where fans would be coming from in terms of the weird out-of-nowhere genre change, but that one moment is by no means a reason to hate this game or think less of it. Plenty of good games have really uncomfortable, cringe inducing, or creepy scenes. This one, to me, just seems like an outlier. It doesn't even last that long. It's not like we were forced to sit through multiple electro torture segments like in MGS (or the very drawn out scene in Ground Zeroes that I assume everyone who has played that game knows what I'm talking about).

It's just a really tactless handling of the subject matter, I think. That ending section has a lot of bad condensed into one moment, but even before that point you have Kotoko making comments about her trauma that sound like inappropriate jokes.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


It’s also, in part that this series is trying to be a somewhat mature and intellectual discussion of its themes. It is asking the player to actually understand a message and this sequence completely shoots any potential understanding or maturity in the head because it’s incredibly tone deaf and awful compared to the way the rest of the kids traumas being is handled.

That’s the problem, the sexual abuse of a child and a teenager has been used in a way that is at odds with what the message of the game, that abuse is a vicious cycle that destroys lives, by making an attempt to eat the awful fanservice cake.

Danganronpa has this problem in general, where whatever pathos or discussion the game is trying to have is sometimes undermined by the nature of the tropes or fanservice invoked. It’s just this is the most extreme version of something people already dislike in the series, in a game that has changed the genre anyway and isn’t necessarily that greatly designed gameplay wise in the first place.

It may not be as bad as it could have been, but it is a very easy thing to point at and say this is a problem, this weakens the narrative and themes for cheap fanservice in ways that the game is trying to say is wrong whilst encouraging the player to participate. I think the game even suggests the groping minigame might be difficult to play one-handed somewhere and I refuse to look to see if that’s true.

Personally, everything to do with Kotoko and the treatment of her particular abuse is the worst part of this game hands down, and without it this game would probably just be considered a mediocre spin-off. With it this game is by far the worst danganronpa game in part because it’s actually gone further than any of the others with this weird fanservice backhanded bullshit.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Dec 20, 2018

Mister Olympus
Oct 31, 2011

Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Psycho Knight posted:

Also, the sympathy meter for these kids is still sitting around the 0 to 1 mark on the scale. "People didn't help me with my specific hellish suffering, therefore the entire world is horrible and all adults are the same" isn't winning me over to anyone's side. I was worried that Jack/Toko was about to make some stupid sympathy speech when she saved her. Turns out it was just an interrogation opportunity, though.

Honestly I kind of feel at this point that sympathizing with the kids is like sympathizing with the monster in a horror film - there's maybe a moment of pity or two, but the game really wants to underline how twisted and scary child logic is.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

The gently caress?

Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

This is literally the worst way to handle this material.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!
I was more focused on the content itself rather than how it was implemented when I was playing through, so my reactions to most of this stuff was just variations on "That is awful" and *dry heaving*.

But, yeah, this is... kind of not good.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

In other, similarly horrible news, I recorded the first run through Chapter 4 today.







My gameplay sure was a thing.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure this went exactly the same way as my first playthrough on the Vita did. Either an A or a B for the first three chapters, then Chapter 4 shows up and makes me its bitch. I haven't learned in the years since.

TheMcD fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Dec 20, 2018

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


I'm with Psycho Knight, I think people overhyped how bad things were going to be. Don't get me wrong, it's gross as hell and the writing/dialogue is loving abominable but I guess I just know a lot of other games that do this. Like Persona 4 and its spin-offs with Rise.

I guess the fact that it's a kid makes this entire segment a whole other level of bad too in contrast to P4.

Its biggest sin is that it's just a loving mess of bad ideas. And ofc the panty shots.

Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Dec 20, 2018

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?
It feels like it would be a LOT worse to play than it is to just read about.

Haifisch
Nov 13, 2010

Objection! I object! That was... objectionable!



Taco Defender
Yeah, you'll note that McD conveniently skipped over any screenshots of actually playing the minigame. :v:

Psycho Knight posted:

That is weird. From what I've seen, the gameplay itself doesn't look bad. It looks like a pretty good game overall.
As someone who's had the misfortune of playing this: The gameplay isn't bad, but it's really tedious. It'd be even more tedious if you're doing what McD's doing and avoiding using Genocider unless the game forces you to.

Basically all of the good stuff in this game is the interactions between Komaru and Toko, and the actual plot is sloppy at best and creepy at worst(as we're seeing here).

Haifisch fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Dec 21, 2018

Blue Labrador
Feb 17, 2011

Those poor voice actors...

"We're gonna need you to give us a variety of eroticized moans and objections. Your character is being sexually assaulted by a child. No, it's not really smart enough to justify being in there. We'll be paying you $9 an hour."

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Mister Olympus posted:

Honestly I kind of feel at this point that sympathizing with the kids is like sympathizing with the monster in a horror film - there's maybe a moment of pity or two, but the game really wants to underline how twisted and scary child logic is.

Well Komaru brings up that she does pity them. But it justifies none of their actions.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


The bit that really makes this part stand out as so horrible to me is how they directly mention child porn, but in such a wink-wink way. "oh well see, even though we're overtly joking about you 'enjoying yourself' in this minigame, the goal of the game that you'll have to eventually do to progress at some point is to stop the groping hands, so TECHNICALLY, it's like the OPPOSITE of child porn when you really think about it, lol! We can totally get away with it!!" :sun:

Like sure, the content might not be quite as bad as some people were expecting after all the hype, but that attitude about presenting it seems so uniquely disgusting.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

Pretty much, and the problem began before the game. That attitude has been prevalent all chapter: at the hideout there were multiple comments about what hotties high school girls were. Right after a scene designed to try and make you feel bad for the abused kid.

The game keeps openly celebrating something it also admits is disgusting and horrible. It's like it was written by a pair of children arguing about how the story goes, and the tonal whiplash just highlights how screwy all the barely legal perversity is.

Like, did we really need toko cutting the little girls clothes off and the underwear shots?

Anyway that was a lot of words to say, that I don't think it was overhyped at all and that I fully understand why a lot of people just put this one down here.

DeafNote
Jun 4, 2014

Only Happy When It Rains
Well
If nothing else this chapter felt shorter than the other two.
Though that may have been McD's influence.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

DeafNote posted:

Well
If nothing else this chapter felt shorter than the other two.
Though that may have been McD's influence.

No, it actually was shorter. I have the footage still here, and going through Chapter 3 in my first run took about 2 1/2 hours. I don't have the footage for Chapter 2 still around, but there's no way it was shorter than, like, 3 hours. Chapter 4's first run was also about 3 1/4 hours. Chapter 3 was decidedly shorter than the other chapters.

EDIT: Though the fact that I've been posting updates daily for this chapter in an attempt to just get it out and over with, aided by the fact that I'm currently off sick from work, is probably also contributing to the fact that it feels really short.

TheMcD fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Dec 21, 2018

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


The worst part is if they’d handled Kotoko the way they handled Jotaro and Masaru the game would probably not have gotten the level of vitriol it got. If her chapter just made suggestions towards the nature of her abuse as a way to highlight her current hyper aggressive personality traits then it wouldn’t have been nearly as bad. Like all they had to do was not add a terrible minigame and direct references to what she’s experienced beyond the word Gentle being super upsetting to her and this chapter would have been improved immensely.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.



Alright, let's check out all the stuff I missed in this chapter. Here's a collectible outside Towa Tower.



It's Taichi's Hit List entry!

...and that's it. That was the only thing I missed. That's the update! I could have totally put this into another update, but I couldn't resist making this separate. Next time, Chapter 4.

Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

On a different note, I can't help but wonder why all of the male characters have been used as fodder, but both Hiroko and Kotoko survive their similar situations.

Not really a complaint, just genuine curiosity.

Isn't Kotoko needed for the Junko v2 thing we just heard about?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Psycho Knight posted:

Isn't Kotoko needed for the Junko v2 thing we just heard about?

Why. Monaca is at the center did you not hear her.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Why. Monaca is at the center did you not hear her.

Spinny spin spin!

Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

MonsterEnvy posted:

Why. Monaca is at the center did you not hear her.

I figured out what it was. I thought that picture in the ritual circle was Kotoko, but when I zoomed in I saw the differences. I don't know Junko, so I saw the pink-haired twintails and thought it was the pink-haired twintails we were just dealing with.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Psycho Knight posted:

I figured out what it was. I thought that picture in the ritual circle was Kotoko, but when I zoomed in I saw the differences. I don't know Junko, so I saw the pink-haired twintails and thought it was the pink-haired twintails we were just dealing with.

Oh, yeah, that'll do it.



It's still strange to me that there's people here in this thread that aren't familiar with DR1 / DR2. It's not a bad thing, just... weird.

McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008

TheMcD posted:

Oh, yeah, that'll do it.



It's still strange to me that there's people here in this thread that aren't familiar with DR1 / DR2. It's not a bad thing, just... weird.

While I did follow along with the original DR translation (Monokuma still sounds weird after Monobear) I'm vaguely familiar with what happened in DR2 but never sat down and just read through all of it out of laziness.

And I realize what an excuse that sounds like after saying I read all of Double Root in three days.

(And then Vampires Dawn 1 and 2 in three days.)

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!

Psycho Knight posted:

I figured out what it was. I thought that picture in the ritual circle was Kotoko, but when I zoomed in I saw the differences. I don't know Junko, so I saw the pink-haired twintails and thought it was the pink-haired twintails we were just dealing with.

Yeah, Junko's the evil high school girl who destroyed the world because of boredom or whatever.

McTimmy posted:

While I did follow along with the original DR translation (Monokuma still sounds weird after Monobear) I'm vaguely familiar with what happened in DR2 but never sat down and just read through all of it out of laziness.



Nagito's Wild Ride happened. :shepface:

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


I don't feel like I'm really missing anything by not being familiar with the previous games in the series. The connections that exist so far seem mostly like bonuses for people who know the background rather than anything important for understanding what's going on.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Nagito's Wild Ride happened. :shepface:

seriously, even if you don't need previous game knowledge to keep up with this plot, it's good to play or watch those games just cause they are better :v:

Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

TheMcD posted:

Oh, yeah, that'll do it.



It's still strange to me that there's people here in this thread that aren't familiar with DR1 / DR2. It's not a bad thing, just... weird.

I know of the series, and I remember wanting to pick it up when it first came out (because I grab almost every weird Japanese game that releases), but I just didn't for whatever reason. Due to that, it just kind of passed me by and I only learned some surface details about it (the general gameplay, the deaths, that kind of thing). I know nothing of the plot or the characters or even this whole world-ending ultimate despair stuff. I always thought this was just a Saw-esque situation.

I figured that was Kotoko's picture in the circle because Monaca was going to raise her to be the new Junko since they look alike. I didn't notice the little hair clips or eye color until I zoomed way in. If I knew the characters or series better then I probably would have noticed it at a glance.

Solitair
Feb 18, 2014

TODAY'S GONNA BE A GOOD MOTHERFUCKIN' DAY!!!
So imagine experiencing all this while watching a blind LP on Youtube. I didn't know this was coming before it happened.

And yeah, the lampshade hanging is what really puts it over the edge. They knew better, but they did it anyway.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.



♪ BGM: Chapter Title



Alright, let's leave Chapter 3 behind us and head on to Chapter 4.



♪ BGM: DSO_New World Order



To note - this chapter is where I started running into major problems with recording. Apparently the stuff in this chapter is more performance intensive than the previous ones. As a result, there has been a slight downgrade in graphics quality, and more importantly, the videos have gone from 60 FPS to 30 FPS. Just so you know.

Wh-Where did this come from...?











In order for the new society of children to be calm and peaceful, I need to create paradise.
Everyone has high expectations of me... I cannot fail.
So please! Get out of our town!
B-But...
O-Omaru, don't be tricked! You don't have to actually accept that offer...
No, this is not an offer. It's an honest request.



H-Hey!
I-I wouldn't trust a kid, even if he's kneeling on the ground! He's obviously tricking us!
I do not intend to trick you...I'm serious!







♪ BGM: DSO_DISTRUST

I know that! But it has to be done! Monaca has high expectations of me! I'm sure she'll understand!
...
I'll take you to the secret passageway. It's the only way to get out of town. I can guarantee your safety until you reach it. The Monokumas won't attack with me here. ...C'mon. Let's go.
H-Hey! I told you to wait!
...What? Do you have another objection?
D-Do I...? Um...
O-Omaru! Are you really okay with this!?
...Huh?
Of course she is, this is what she wanted all this time.
I-I wasn't talking to you! I'm asking Omaru!
...
She wants to leave this town, why are you getting in her way? You're on the same side, right? Then you should respect her feelings.
Her feelings...?
Sh-Shut up, you have no right to say that...
It's going to be alright. I will personally guide you to the secret passageway. No need to worry.
...
...Let's go.
Nagisa!



B-But...
...You don't want Monaca to hate you, do you?
...





♪ BGM: Wonderful Dead 004

Alright, well, that was certainly a turn of events. So now we're following Nagisa to a place where Komaru can apparently just straight up leave the town, and she's lost her wristband, too. Everything's coming up Komaru?



First of all, new skill. More cash!



Next, some sparkles behind us.



♪ Jingle: Hidden Kids Discovered!



Next, a collectible.







After that, we just continue on down the road.



♪ BGM: DSO_Living to the Fullest

This way! Follow me closely!



But then, Nagisa stops.



And then, suddenly Monokumas appear on the ground like loving ninjas or something. Apparently they have cloaking devices?



And they start approaching!



Hold on! Why are you attacking me?



AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!

Nagisa's reality is falling apart, and he can't deal.



And between the advancing Monokumas...



...two Monokuma kids seem very pleased with this development.



♪ BGM: VERSUS

So now we have to defend Nagisa. This is a fairly simple segment - it's just waves of regular Monokumas with an occasional Siren mixed in - which does pretty much nothing since the Monokumas are already alerted. So, lots of blasting ensues until they're all gone.



♪ BGM: DSO_Despair-Syndrome

Without their Monokuma backup, the kids bail.



This is...strange... What in the world is this?
Hey, you weren't lying when you said you wouldn't trick us, right?
Of course! If I wanted to deceive you, I would not have removed your wristband.
Then... They must have found out you betrayed them.
B-Betrayal? Me!?
N-No! That's wrong! I'm no traitor! I am the leader of the Warriors of Hope! I care about making paradise more than anybody! The reason I'm letting you guys go is *because* I care so much!
It appears your allies aren't taking it that way.
Ugh...
I'm sure she'd understand if I explained it to her properly... Monaca has such high expectations...
Yeah, keep on saying that, Mister Genius Grade-schooler.
...



♪ BGM: Wonderful Dead 004

With that done, we move on down the road.



Our next interruption comes here at this intersection.



♪ BGM: VERSUS



Bombers show up and Nagisa freaks out again.



So, this segment involves a ton of Bombers popping up on the rooftops. Some of them eventually jump down and attack Nagisa, but that should hardly happen if this segment is played efficiently.



Efficient playing in this case means taking advantage of the positioning of the Bombers and killing those that are in position to blow up the others. Since there's no cash to be gained here, I think all we're losing here is some EXP, which is in large supply anyway.



There's some pretty large numbers in the end, but nothing we can't deal with.



♪ BGM: Wonderful Dead 004

We don't get very far until our next interruption, which is right in that intersection up there.



♪ BGM: VERSUS

Suddenly, we get the big guns. A whole squadron of Guards plus two Ball Monokumas, and reinforcements are waiting to pile in once the other guys are dead. I've gone through this segment two times before. The first time I was blinded by the prospect of loads of money and tried to shoot all the Guards individually. That's just not happening though. Way too many - you run out of ammo eventually, which is what happened to me. The second time around, I did it the intended way - stun the Ball Monokumas with Dance, then use Knockback to take out a whole batch of Guards in one clean shot. This works, however, I had to bin the footage because it was too laggy. The third time around...



♪ BGM: Fever Time

...I've decided "gently caress it".



One problem with this segment is that for whatever reason, the Guards like to get stuck inside the busses they file out of. This prevents you from using Ball Monokumas to kill them, meaning you have to waste a Knockback and a Break on every single one. This time around, Jack makes things a lot easier.



In the end, they also throw in four Junk Monokumas just for the hell of it, which are fairly difficult to hit with Ball Monokumas unless you set it up with two Dance shots. Again, Jack makes short work of everything, albeit at the cost of about three and a half batteries. Still, very much worth it.



♪ BGM: Wonderful Dead 004

With that done, we move on in our path. But first, we run into a pile of bodies.



♪ BGM: Ambience ♫



I won't look... But even if I don't see it... I can pretty much figure out what happened...
You really don't feel anything seeing this?
These people...are Demons. Our enemies...
...That's not what she asked.
You said it before, right? It's because you're afraid of adults?
...Yeah, that's right. We can't help but be terrified around adults... If the adults just didn't exist, we could live peacefully... That's what I believe.
Why are you so afraid of adults?
...



♪ BGM: DSO_Despair-Syndrome

We were in the classroom where they put all the troublemakers. But I resented being called a "troublemaker." It makes it sound as if we ourselves were the cause of the trouble. But that's not right. Our troubles were created by adults. By our parents.



My parents were, without exaggeration, the worst... Like Demons.



♪ BGM: Like I Would Become A Monster

They didn't treat me like a person. They probably even forgot I was their child. From morning tlil night, study, study, study... When I got sleepy, analeptics. Even if I faint, "HP" is fully restored with a handy I.V. in my arm... three to four days straight. And If I showed even the slightest resistance, they'd use "items" to neuter my spirit.

In case you don't notice it - in the right corner of the picture, you can spot something that looks suspiciously like a knife with some slight blood stains next to it. Just to make clear what Nagisa means when he says his parents used "items".

And by doing so, as long as they steadily racked up "XP," I'd level up to their expectations. And it wasn't just at home. I received the same expectations at school as well. My father was a teacher at our school. He was a researcher of children's talent.



He wanted to see what the growth curve would be like if he pushed a child to the breaking point.
...Isn't that funny? I was the subject of such an amusing experiment.
I-It's not funny at all...
But even with all that, I was still better off than the others. You saw Monaca's legs, right? That...was done to her by her family. Her father and older brother were jealous of her talent, and that's how she ended up like that...
Th-That's horrible!
Because we had talent, because we were superior, we were treated like we were in Hell. But during it all, we didn't hold a grudge against our parents. We accepted how we were treated. Because we weren't aware that it was okay to hate our parents. We trusted the "common knowledge" that kids must love their parents, so we didn't fight it. Instead, we bonded over our struggle. And those discussions led us to the same conclusion.



♪ BGM: DSO_Desire for Execution...



We were desperate to run away from our scary parents, scary adults, the whole scary world... And we thought there was only one way out. But...that's when it happened.



That was Big Sis Junko.



♪ BGM: DSO_Ocean Breeze Dead End

If you don't want it...give it to me.
She wanted the thing we were going to dispose of... ...Our lives.





Ever since then...the days have been so much fun.



She gave us not only love, but a dream as well. The dream of creating a "children's paradise," where the children can live peacefully. We also learned from Big Sis Junko the beliefs required to build that dream.
The belief that adults are Demons. It was as if we saw the light... Thanks to her, we finally realized... The common knowledge we had known up until then were lies adults created for their own benefit. Children cannot defy their parents, everyone must get along, violence can never bring peace...
To destroy the world based on such lies, we decided to fight against the adults.



We learned that kids can kill adults if they wanted to, and we were encouraged.



Big Sis Junko was so pleased... Just the idea of a child killing an adult is despair-inducing.



J-Just as I expected, you guys were just tools to her... She was using you...
The way she took you in... It's no different than a cult. You bring in the weak people and attach them to your own dream... The revolution you're talking about... It's all just another piece of despair to her.
You guys...were completely deceived by Junko Enoshima.
And what's wrong with that? Did I not tell you that we are her possessions? We would rather her take advantage of us than horrible adults.
Sounds like it's too late.
Say what you like. Big Sis Junko...gave us hope. That's the truth. And because of that hope, we were able to defeat the Demon Boss.
Demon... Boss?

♪ BGM: DSO_Weekly Despair Magazine

...Our parents.
You killed your parents!?

Yes, Komaru. The group of children that has slaughtered pretty much an entire loving city because of their fear of adults, which was born entirely from the abuse their parents inflicted upon them, actually did kill their parents as well. Is that *really* a surprise?

That was a special battle that can only be fought once... That made us level up even further.
From there, "Operation Children's Paradise" began, and we started freeing other children... By doing so, the advance of the Warriors of Hope seemed unstoppable. But...
Just when things were going so well, Big Sis Junko died. Killed by some idiot.
...
When she died and we lost our guide, we didn't know what to do... But... Monaca didn't despair.



♪ BGM: DSO_Welcome Despair Academy

We shouldn't give up. We can't abandon hope.



Things that didn't matter vanished... And we felt ourselves rising up again. Come to think of it, that moment... That was the real beginning of the revolution.



We, the survivors, will fulfill the dream, and prove how amazing Big Sis Junko is. We would leave lies like education and love for family in the past, and create paradise. That is our hope!
You guys... You really don't understand that you're doing something very wrong.
Justice and evil, these are beliefs that *adults* have defined, are they not? First off, pure evil simply does not exist. In all evil there is something good. And in the same way, "justice" always hurts someone. There is no pure justice, either.
Hmph, are we really gonna stand around waxing philosophical with some little brat!?

♪ BGM: DSO_Beautiful Dead

I wanna know why you guys chose Towa City. And not only that, how did you guys get that army of Monokumas?
The one who chose this city and prepared our Monokumas was Monaca.
Isn't she amazing? She created them with her special magic.
...Magic?
Don't take any of this seriously, it's just some kid talking.
Basically, Monaca's the mastermind, and to save Master, I gotta deal with her.
Monaca is our princess! I will never allow that!
...H-Hey!
Earlier, you said that there is no such thing as pure justice or evil...
But even if that's true, a dream that requires you to hurt someone... I think it's wrong.
Hmph, after all this time, still saying something so naive... It seems as though we really don't have much in common. I was right to ask you to leave.
...
So let's go already. The secret passageway is right up ahead.



♪ BGM: Wonderful Dead 004

And with that, let's keep moving on. Our destination seems to be a shrine of some sorts.



♪ BGM: We Can't Change The World



Hey, Omaru...do you have a second?
Huh? Y-Yeah...

♪ BGM: DSO_Welcome Despair Academy

Are you really sure this is okay? To end it like this, running away...
You're asking this now? All this time, I've been trying to escape...
And not just that, I'm still worried about my Dad and Mom...
...
What are you gonna do, Toko? Are you really gonna stay here?
O-Of course. I have to save Master Byakuya.
Right...
Hey... What do you think, honestly? Is it better for me to stay in this city?
Wh-Why are you asking me?
I mean, if I go...you'll be alone.
Toko... Do you want me to stay?
Y-You...have no reason to worry about me. I'm capable of surviving on my own...
Yeah, you're right. When I'm around, I'm just a burden to you. Unlike me, you're truly amazing, Toko.
...Hey, Omaru...
...Hm?
Sorry...for getting you involved in all this.
Involved...? What do you mean?
...N-Nothing.
Just...leave. Before he changes his mind.
...



This little area also has a collectible for us.







♪ BGM: DSO_Beautiful Dead

Again with that nonsense, after all this? We are well aware that we are killing innocents.
This is war. When you're burning the enemy's country to the ground, do you stop to spare the "good" people? Even if we had years, we would never achieve our dream with that...benevolence.
B-But...
Consider it fate. We were born and raised here. We were treated as if we weren't even human. Wouldn't it be a cruel twist of fate if we *didn't* fight back?
But for you to just do to them what they've done to you...
Perhaps you think we should have *stayed* sub-human? Just *accepted* it?
N-No, not like that...
Then you tell me. What should we have done? What was the right thing to do? What should we have done to earn the privilege of a normal, happy childhood?
Oh stop being such a drama queen! You could have relied on the police! On the government!
You're asking those who have had their lives destroyed by adults...to trust other adults.
Tch...
Ever since we five were born in Towa City, our destiny was decided. No one can stop us. With all the children in this town, we will build an ideal paradise.
With all the children in this town? You're talking about all those brats in the helmets?
Of course. It's not just us, but also the Monokuma Kids. All the children.
Funny that all the kids in this town just happen to have murderous intentions like you!
...Hmph, perhaps I've said too much. I have nothing else to say to you. You cannot stop us now.
P-Pretty bold for a shrimpy little brat like you to talk big! I don't care how unfortunate your childhoods were, killing humans will never be okay.
I didn't expect a Demon to understand.



♪ BGM: DSO_Welcome Despair Academy

Well, I guess this is a good place to cut this update. Next time, the secret passageway out of this town!

SoundwaveAU
Apr 17, 2018

Yo I bet Nagisa has the sickest IVs and EVs

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


You can see where the justified ideas end and Junko's influence begins.

Junpei
Oct 4, 2015

Although next time, you would be wise to heed the ancient Japanese proverb... phone first!
Masaru: Your classic booze-drinking cigarette-smoking rear end in a top hat Dad abuse

Jataro: Gaslighting of some sort, making himself think he's ugly and useless and stupid

Kotoko: Used in child pornography

Nagisa: Treated like a living experiment

Monika: Literally had her legs broken by her dad and older brother

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


I like how everyone looks horrified at what they're doing. Aside from Monaca, who looks like she's watching a weather report.

SoundwaveAU posted:

Yo I bet Nagisa has the sickest IVs and EVs

Yeah, but he's not fully evolved yet, so it doesn't matter too much.

TheMcD posted:

Funny that all the kids in this town just happen to have murderous intentions like you!
...Hmph, perhaps I've said too much.

I genuinely don't remember, but I'm assuming the helmets are for brainwashing at this point. Between that and the comment about the kids never sleeping.

But if that's true, then that means Nagisa is basically doing to everyone what his parents did to him. :v:

Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Dec 27, 2018

Psycho Knight
Jan 19, 2017

"Being a fangame and not bound to a rating, Pokemon Reborn is able to expand more on topics such as death and the extreme dangers Pokemon could pose. These topics...are treated with the respect such a subject deserves."

Let's throw a Medicham into a volcano and make it give the T2 thumbs up!

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

But if that's true, then that means Nagisa is basically doing to everyone what his parents did to him. :v:

Even if that brainwashing point isn't true (although that sounds entirely reasonable as a big reveal later on), they are no less hypocritical. "Two wrongs don't make a right" has been a constant thing in this game. It's the reason I have absolutely no sympathy for these little brats.

I mean, come on:

TheMcD posted:

J-Just as I expected, you guys were just tools to her... She was using you...
The way she took you in... It's no different than a cult. You bring in the weak people and attach them to your own dream... The revolution you're talking about... It's all just another piece of despair to her.
You guys...were completely deceived by Junko Enoshima.
And what's wrong with that? Did I not tell you that we are her possessions? We would rather her take advantage of us than horrible adults.

I can't sympathize with that level of stupid, even if it is a kid. "We were abused by those adults, but this adult is abusing us in a completely different way, so we are entirely okay with that and we even deify her. Trust me, it's completely different and in no way runs counter to our entire ethos."

Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Dec 27, 2018

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Psycho Knight posted:

Even if that brainwashing point isn't true (although that sounds entirely reasonable as a big reveal later on), they are no less hypocritical. "Two wrongs don't make a right" has been a constant thing in this game. It's the reason I have absolutely no sympathy for these little brats.

I mean, come on:


I can't sympathize with that level of stupid, even if it is a kid. "We were abused by those adults, but this adult is abusing us in a completely different way, so we are entirely okay with that and we even deify her. Trust me, it's completely different and in no way runs counter to our entire ethos."

Well Junko's not an adult. But yeah they are very broken.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well Junko's not an adult. But yeah they are very broken.

Our main character and her sidekick are a younger sister to one of Junko's classmates and one of junko's classmates. They are regularly referred to as adults by the kids which would make Junko one even if nobody past high school considers that the truth.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


Psycho Knight posted:

I can't sympathize with that level of stupid, even if it is a kid. "We were abused by those adults, but this adult is abusing us in a completely different way, so we are entirely okay with that and we even deify her. Trust me, it's completely different and in no way runs counter to our entire ethos."

I didn't really read this as abuse, just that they are okay with following Junko's plans because it helps them too.

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Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
Yeah, it's not really airtight logic, but it's more "I'd rather be manipulated by someone who helps me get free from abuse than manipulated by someone that makes me want to kill myself".

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