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Lack of ship and weapon variety is a bummer
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Dec 30, 2018 05:25
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Naturally Selected posted:Partly sound, and partly because this game, like seemingly a lot of others, lacks a "Big fuckoff gun" thing that you generally expect in sci-fi Destroyer and above-class ships. Not an upscaled pulse laser or whatever, but a massive "oh you're hosed" cannon. See something like Mass Effect's dreads/cruisers, where the ship is basically built around gigantic mass drivers as their primary armament-you have turrets, launch tubes, etc for swatting at smaller ships, but then you also need to line up the entire ship to bring the main gun to bear on bigger prey. The Expanse kind of has the same thing with missiles/torps being a long-range engagement thing, but then once you bring a big ship close enough you start trading punches with the big guns. The destroyers are built around their main guns but they're just boring plasma guns.
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Dec 30, 2018 06:02
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The fact that the main battery of a destroyer can't one shot a small fighter doesn't help.
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Dec 30, 2018 06:27
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hobbesmaster posted:There exist models for boron in water space suits. The staff modules look like plastic Live Amazing Sea Monkeys tanks
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Dec 30, 2018 06:30
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My first car was a stick
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Naturally Selected posted:Partly sound, and partly because this game, like seemingly a lot of others, lacks a "Big fuckoff gun" thing that you generally expect in sci-fi Destroyer and above-class ships. Not an upscaled pulse laser or whatever, but a massive "oh you're hosed" cannon. See something like Mass Effect's dreads/cruisers, where the ship is basically built around gigantic mass drivers as their primary armament-you have turrets, launch tubes, etc for swatting at smaller ships, but then you also need to line up the entire ship to bring the main gun to bear on bigger prey. The Expanse kind of has the same thing with missiles/torps being a long-range engagement thing, but then once you bring a big ship close enough you start trading punches with the big guns. Every game needs a good Wave Motion Gun style weapon, it just seems tough to balance.
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Dec 30, 2018 06:36
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:The fact that the main battery of a destroyer can't one shot a small fighter doesn't help. On one hand, from a gameplay perspective, it would absolutely suck to just get insta-whacked by an enemy destroyer the first time you wander into hostile space. On the other, the fact that a small-fleet capital ship's main batteries aren't a completely loving terrifying piece of gear to anyone but civilian ships really sucks. kdrudy posted:Every game needs a good Wave Motion Gun style weapon, it just seems tough to balance. That's kind of the issue, really. Which is why I'm always waffling about it. You could give it a charge time/energy drain/overheat kind of mechanic where it stops energy regen for other weapons or, in X4 mechanics, have the "waste heat" cause other guns to gain a significant amount or something like that? Have it be a knockout punch if you hit, but give it a large opportunity cost if you miss. Naturally Selected fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Dec 30, 2018 06:37
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kdrudy posted:Every game needs a good Wave Motion Gun style weapon, it just seems tough to balance. The problem here is not that the gun isn't powerful, it's that it's not satisfying. There have been essays about how the double barrel shotgun in Doom 2 is one of the best FPS weapons ever made. It's not that it's super strong, but the sound of it, the effect, the reload action, all of that poo poo is rad as gently caress and more important than the actual effect of the weapon. (Within reason.)
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Dec 30, 2018 06:38
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MechaCrash posted:The problem here is not that the gun isn't powerful, it's that it's not satisfying. There have been essays about how the double barrel shotgun in Doom 2 is one of the best FPS weapons ever made. It's not that it's super strong, but the sound of it, the effect, the reload action, all of that poo poo is rad as gently caress and more important than the actual effect of the weapon. (Within reason.) Yeah the X series in general really tends to lack that sort of "game feel" stuff that can be more impactful than the actual numbers involved. Has there ever been a big "Wave Motion Gun" type main cannon in the X series anyway, though? Like I know there were some really damaging guns you could stick on capital ships but I don't know if they ever did the "huge wide beam of death" style of attack.
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Dec 30, 2018 06:45
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So I finally figured out the process to buy pilots for captured/found ships and boy do I feel dumb. I didn't realize you needed to build a minimum spec small ship and transfer its pilot, then sell the small ship back. So, next up, station building tips to get my illegal empire of space booze/drugs up and running?
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Dec 30, 2018 06:49
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Naturally Selected posted:On one hand, from a gameplay perspective, it would absolutely suck to just get insta-whacked by an enemy destroyer the first time you wander into hostile space. On the other, the fact that a small-fleet capital ship's main batteries aren't a completely loving terrifying piece of gear to anyone but civilian ships really sucks. That's fair but maybe have it be terrible at hitting fast ships and only useful against other capital ships. Would probably need to make turrets better to compensate for this. Or just leave destroyers vulnerable to massed small ships and give those a niche to fill.
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Dec 30, 2018 06:58
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I mean, PPC was not exactly super difficult to dodge or get trapped in heavy fire from, exceptions for gently caress off fleet battles having a couple dozen destroyers on scene.
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Dec 30, 2018 07:29
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Shalebridge Cradle posted:The fact that the main battery of a destroyer can't one shot a small fighter doesn't help. I was playing around with the odysseus a bit in a xenon sector and a direct hit from both main cannons will take off half the hull of a P, thats pretty cool at least.
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Dec 30, 2018 07:32
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The main cannons are actually amazing damage wise, especially if you put a weapon mod on them. Their damage is actually insane if you roll something like +35% damage and +50% RoF. The only thing that can match them are torpedoes, and you run out of those. They don't look and sound like giant fuckoff cannons, but they really are. It's just a shame the AI doesn't know to use them rather than broadside. The fact that Ks don't have main guns makes them absolute jokes. Multiple Ps are more dangerous. However I think the most powerful capital ship right now is actually a Constructor. In earlier games a strong weapon did something like 7-9 times the damage of an early pea shooter, but in this game an early pea shooter does as much/more damage than a large turret. Which means a constructor with it's ability to carry /100 combat drones/ is going to outclass every other ship in the game. 100 combat drones does 61,000 damage a second if they're all firing. The only thing that can compete with that is a capship filled with missiles, but those run out. And you can cover the mammoth with tracking turrets too, lol.
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Dec 30, 2018 09:14
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah the X series in general really tends to lack that sort of "game feel" stuff that can be more impactful than the actual numbers involved. https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/203 Behold.
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Dec 30, 2018 13:29
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Yeah the X series in general really tends to lack that sort of "game feel" stuff that can be more impactful than the actual numbers involved. Rebirth has spinal weapons on some of its destroyers, oddly enough. There's also the rather more literal wave gun which was the phased shockwave generator in X3, a hilarious weapon that would essentially kill anything that got even remotely near the ship firing it, making it nearly useless because it would kill all your allied ships and any non hostile craft as well 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Dec 30, 2018 |
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Dec 30, 2018 13:32
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OwlFancier posted:Rebirth has spinal weapons on some of its destroyers, oddly enough. The one game in the series where you can't actually fly a destroyer. PSGs were stupid fun when you modded them onto smaller ships like an Centaurus or other corvettes.  Downloaded so hard I may have broken my mouse. Gonna test it later.
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Dec 30, 2018 13:51
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Slickdrac posted:I mean, PPC was not exactly super difficult to dodge or get trapped in heavy fire from, exceptions for gently caress off fleet battles having a couple dozen destroyers on scene. Is that the Terran gun? When the little racing ship was patched into X3 I enjoyed going to Heretic's End and flying circles around the Terran fleet, they'd blow each other up shooting little white stars all over the place
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Dec 30, 2018 14:14
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PPC is the photon pulse cannon, basically the main heavy cannon for all the commonwealth races.
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Dec 30, 2018 14:25
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Credit where it's due, Elite Dangerous has a few issues but its sound design is absolutely on point. X4 could use some more sound design.
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Dec 30, 2018 18:40
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Sky Shadowing posted:Credit where it's due, Elite Dangerous has a few issues but its sound design is absolutely on point. Elite's sound is one of the best in any game period, the way the game uses bass is awesome. Especially for stuff like Thargoids.
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Dec 30, 2018 18:50
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Is it just me or does the chair in the cockpit contort and bend to fit the species of the pilot? I'm milling around in a Theseus at the moment and when I sit in my chair it acts like a normal cockpit chair, but when my Paranid NPC drives they drive standing up and the chair changes to accommodate that. Nice touch.
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Dec 30, 2018 20:40
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Airspace posted:Is it just me or does the chair in the cockpit contort and bend to fit the species of the pilot? There's actually a little animation that happens when you take over a seat from a Paranid pilot where the chair moves into human position. And yes, it's one of those touches that make the game so cool.
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Dec 30, 2018 20:54
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Old and lame: hair physics New and hot: chair physics
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Dec 30, 2018 21:24
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Chomp8645 posted:Old and lame: hair physics Ergonomics never really went out of fashion.
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Dec 31, 2018 00:00
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You say that but hair physics would be quite good for boron squidships.
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Dec 31, 2018 00:57
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OwlFancier posted:You say that but hair physics would be quite good for boron squidships. 
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Dec 31, 2018 01:38
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Naturally Selected posted:Partly sound, and partly because this game, like seemingly a lot of others, lacks a "Big fuckoff gun" thing that you generally expect in sci-fi Destroyer and above-class ships. Not an upscaled pulse laser or whatever, but a massive "oh you're hosed" cannon. See something like Mass Effect's dreads/cruisers, where the ship is basically built around gigantic mass drivers as their primary armament-you have turrets, launch tubes, etc for swatting at smaller ships, but then you also need to line up the entire ship to bring the main gun to bear on bigger prey. The Expanse kind of has the same thing with missiles/torps being a long-range engagement thing, but then once you bring a big ship close enough you start trading punches with the big guns. There was a nothing special destroyer in X:R that claimed to have a giant spinal mount canon, but it never actually used it in stock form. Then some guy made a mod that would remind those ships that it had it, and how to actually use it. I want to say that it made those destroyers useful for attacking stations, but it's been awhile.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:17
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How long ago did 1.5 come out? I chanced across a post that mixes two mods that apparently fix it so the AI will go to war and was wondering if it was still needed. Also, the destroyers are absolutely lethal. OOS especially. I watched one Behemoth just plow into a group of fighters and a frigate and just rip them apart.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:19
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They are lethal, and OOS combat, unless they changed it significantly, has completely different math where bigger ships win 99% of the time. The problem isn't lethality, really-it's the *feel* of them when actually flying one.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:01
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Atmus posted:There was a nothing special destroyer in X:R that claimed to have a giant spinal mount canon, but it never actually used it in stock form. Then some guy made a mod that would remind those ships that it had it, and how to actually use it. I want to say that it made those destroyers useful for attacking stations, but it's been awhile. Do you mean this https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=410999 ?
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Jan 3, 2019 02:07
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current version vanilla X Rebirth Sucellus does actually have AI to use its main gun properly. On the launch version of XR i think the Sucellus could still fire, just only if it was coincidentally aimed at its target which only happened on approach owing to the nature of capship ai. OOS math is completely rewritten from x3 and you shouldnt rely on it. I haven't watched many destroyers at work but fighters seem to fare well against frigates. Had an Osprey take about 30% hull damage from a couple Discoverers. (Caveat: I think Pirate Discos tend to mount missiles.)
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Jan 3, 2019 02:49
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Falcorum posted:Do you mean this https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=410999 ? No. That's probably the ship, but that isn't anything like how it worked. TheDeadlyShoe posted:current version vanilla X Rebirth Sucellus does actually have AI to use its main gun properly. On the launch version of XR i think the Sucellus could still fire, just only if it was coincidentally aimed at its target which only happened on approach owing to the nature of capship ai. Yeah, the launch AI would also have it close in on the enemy like it was a normal ship. The way the mod (claimed) to work was that the Sucellus would hang back at it's maximum range and try to be long distance artillery. I gathered a fleet of like 20 of them (with appropriate support fleet) to go attack a Xenon station, but I never got around to actually doing it. Atmus fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 15:50
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So what's the consensus on buying the game in its current state vs. waiting a few months for patches/potential expansions?
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Jan 3, 2019 19:01
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Davos posted:So what's the consensus on buying the game in its current state vs. waiting a few months for patches/potential expansions? Patches are not really needed right now. Game is stable and the basic systems all work. Expansions are definitely more than a few months away though. Next big thing to look forward is mods. But like the expansions any significant ones are probably going to be some time off. But the basic game is good right now. It's a pretty solid "build your space empire" sim. The only problem is there isn't a whole lot to do once you've built it.
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Jan 3, 2019 19:19
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Anybody in the beta try the online stuff yet? Seems pretty cool but im real curious how stable it is. I would love for it to be possible to check a box that lets you invade or be invaded by another player beyond just adventures in their game. It will be rad if they expand on this concept. For the updates i remember they said they want the first expansion to drop within a year of release but it will probably be awhile if rebirth is anything to go by. They built out a stable base first and thats imo the way to go. They were kinda forced to with rebirth though lol. The planned expansions are the other races and ships, or at least that was the plan before release.
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Jan 3, 2019 23:20
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So apparently large sized gas miners are the real frigates in this game. The actual frigates are more like really light carriers that can spew defense drones/repair drones everywhere. Someone on reddit did a layout about how some of the L gas miners apparently have great turret placement and can capture ships all by themselves if kitted properly. Heck, one is apparently faster than a Behemoth. I tried to do ventures in my game but it turns out you can't send them out if you have any mods enabled on your save. I can't find the variable in the save data to re-enable it either. It's unfortunate, since I had the cheat mod added in to deal with fixing bugs. I can say that ventures can at least gives alternate skins for ships. Someone in a thread offsite mentioned that. There's some really good ones too. The one I saw was an "Aldrin" themed skin that basically gave a white Star Trek/TC era Terran shipstyle coat of paint to all the ships. Ventures are also reliable ways to train your ships up, assuming you know how to kit them to avoid being ganked by some dickish player or whatever chaos is going on in their universe. Edit: Also, if you get the economy fix mod and shipyard shortage ship fix mod there's actually quite a bit to do. The empires will straight up send armada's at each other that can wreck stations and conquer sectors. It's clear the content for a late game experience is there. It's just that something in the economy is borked to where they can't get enough of a reserve that they feel safe in launching attacks. Also also, holy loving poo poo the Teladi in this game are cool. They have ring world style space habitats that are larger than some factory complexes are. It turns out that it costs like 23 mil at least to buy the BP to it too.  You can even fly inside the atmosphere. Turns out that all the trees and buildings read on the scanner too. So it looks like they might have secretly sneaked in functionality for planetary play at some point. Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 00:02
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Venture rewards are account bound, so in theory you can run a modded and unmodded save to send out ventures if you want the paint skins. Although if you're modding anyway i presume you can just enable skins you like. I wish the skin rewards were less random though. If you find a skin you like it doesnt seem you can target getting it in any way.
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Jan 4, 2019 01:33
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The whole venture thing they're working on is really awkward. They've stated that they plan on expanding modding support by enabling steam workshop in the future, but if you have even one tiny mod (like the one that adds more npcs to stations) you can't send anything out. Like, what do you want? You want to support modding, or to support this weird online ventures thing? Now, I realise that it would be pretty easy to set up ventures to accept ships from modded games, vanilla ships with vanilla parts as to ensure maximum compatibility. But would they do that? Say some guy gets the cheat suite mod X and spawns in a billion venture ships and sends them all out. Would that be something they'd be ok with? I'll still be modding the crap out of this game reguardless. It just seems like a silly project they're working on here.
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Jan 4, 2019 03:14
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Well, you cant send out more than one ship, at least right now. Theoretically they could whitelist popular good mods on the workshop. Also, not all mods will cause <modified>. For example, the program that modifies the LOD settings in the CAT files to make the game last longer on 2gb cards doesnt cause <Modified>. Looking forward to sending ships to attack my friends stations. Well, if i had friends that played this more than ten hours, anyway. I think the concern with sending ships out in this case is that if you're sending hostile ventures with a modded game you could send out a max skill in everything, max quality mods on everything, super death boat to attack people and not even care if you lost it. Even if you're not directly modding free stuff there's mods that do stuff like highlight where all the valuable crystals are for you... TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 03:28
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So a few days ago I discovered that some of the capital ships have production terminals that you can hack with the right items. Are the carriers and destroyers supposed to also be mobile factories? Because that'd explain why carriers kinda suck as is. If they can just keep pumping out infinite fighters and frigates every minute that'd up their capabilities considerably and turn them into mobile base ships. Also, does having mods installed invalidate the game save? Or is it just having a save with them enabled? Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Jan 4, 2019 |
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Jan 4, 2019 19:50
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