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Absurd Alhazred posted:She wants credit for the retcon without actually going into the effort of writing or changin anything. Like Lindsay said, she had a lot of creative control (maybe even too much) on the Fantastic Beasts movies, the second one had descriptions of Dumbledore's relationship with Grindelwald, so Dumbledore's ostensible homosexuality could have actually been written into a new work, but she didn't do it. i mean i kinda thought they put it in. them making a unbreakable relationship charm seems pretty romantic. idk its not well done and they seem to step around saying anything outright though.
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Jan 2, 2019 04:52
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like they wanted an escape hatch to avoid outright offending people. The Dumbledore/Grindelwald stuff felt just ambiguous enough for them to possibly be a blood brothers thing, if you just really didn't want to see it as a relationship. It kind of sucks since all they do is tell you how much they love each other, there's never really a build-up and it's kind of a big deal for the plot.
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Jan 2, 2019 05:07
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does jk rowling think the american civil war was fought because nobody had thought to simply frighten themselves out of slavery?
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Jan 2, 2019 06:11
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Maybe I'm wrong, but it felt like they wanted an escape hatch to avoid outright offending people. The Dumbledore/Grindelwald stuff felt just ambiguous enough for them to possibly be a blood brothers thing, if you just really didn't want to see it as a relationship. It kind of sucks since all they do is tell you how much they love each other, there's never really a build-up and it's kind of a big deal for the plot. Well there was no build up at all in that movie in anyway outside the rape baby twist with what’s her face. God that movie sucked.
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Jan 2, 2019 07:06
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DoubleCakes posted:About the latest Hbomberguy video on Flat Earthers: towards the end he gets empathetic towards them and says there must be a reason why they believe things obviously wrong and that's all well and good but he doesn't actually show why Flat Earthers believe that garbage. He's already done the slow-fade to Marx / a communist flag or whatever jokes to death at this point. Him screaming "it's capitalism / neo-liberalism!" would achieve little; most of his viewership are already on board, and it would only serve to drive away any flat-earthers who stumble over it. If their interest is piqued he has plenty of other videos that touch on this, as do the people referenced in the video. thotsky fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 14:10
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Biomute posted:He's already done the slow-fade to Marx / a communist flag or whatever jokes to death at this point. Him screaming "it's capitalism / neo-liberalism!" would achieve little; most of his viewership are already on board, and it would only serve to drive away any flat-earthers who stumble over it. If their interest is piqued he has plenty of other videos that touch on this, as do the people referenced in the video. I mean pretending it’s something it’s not is actively harmful so I think saying what it is instead would be a lot better. Though the video isn’t gonna concert flat earthers either way it’s a mock video not a convert video.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:43
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Honestly Hbomb making fun of flat earthers doesn't need to be much more than a mockery of their beliefs and a science lesson. Of all the videos he's done, flat earthers are probably the least harmful people he's made fun of. They're idiots and can be creepy misogynists, but they're nowhere near as actively damaging as actual racists and supremacists like Golden One or Sargon, or the British Tories.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:48
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So for someone who knows more about flat earth people because it didn’t come up in the video, what do these people generally think about an edge you could presumably fall off of? Is there a bottom or do you just fall forever? It’s totally overthinking a crazy idea, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my head.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:50
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jk rowling lying about corbyn hating jewish people is a lot worse than her lazy retcons. that twitter thread was definitely a "you gotta log off" moment.
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Jan 2, 2019 15:57
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bobjr posted:So for someone who knows more about flat earth people because it didn’t come up in the video, what do these people generally think about an edge you could presumably fall off of? Is there a bottom or do you just fall forever? It’s totally overthinking a crazy idea, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my head. You're probably putting more thought into it than they are. Conspiracy theorists tend to be less interested in the real logistics of their pet idea than they are in defying Them by finding all Their lies and mistakes. It's a way to get that "Checkmate, atheists!" rush, not a coherent and rationally arrived at worldview.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:13
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bobjr posted:So for someone who knows more about flat earth people because it didn’t come up in the video, what do these people generally think about an edge you could presumably fall off of? Is there a bottom or do you just fall forever? It’s totally overthinking a crazy idea, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my head. you hit the bottom and are killed by the impact. duh. you imbecile. you loving moron
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Jan 2, 2019 16:15
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Puppy Time posted:You're probably putting more thought into it than they are. Conspiracy theorists tend to be less interested in the real logistics of their pet idea than they are in defying Them by finding all Their lies and mistakes. Yeah there is a part in the video where the guy sees something that contradicts his theory and he just shrugs it off without even an attempt to explain it. They are not rational people who a video is gonna save
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Jan 2, 2019 16:16
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Yeah I totally understand that how it doesn’t make sense wouldn’t change their minds or anything, I was just more curious if there was an explanation at all.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:26
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I'd rather have someone believe the Earth was flat than believe that secret Satan Jews are eating little kids and wearing their faces while also deceiving people about the Earth being flat by using holograms and poo poo.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:32
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it is interesting how we separate flat earthers from the tens of millions of people that believe in death panels, or immigrants being an invading horde, or neoliberal corporatists are communists.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:33
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Lindsay's video was good (as always) but I think the Rowling Retcon™ phenomenon is only tangential to the broader idea of 'authorial intent.' There's a distinction, I think, between an author making up additional plot and stapling it onto an existing work versus the idea of interpreting the author's intended reception of meaning* by the reader, or examining a work in light of the meaning* that would have been provided by the cultural context of a given work's creation (viz. the Macbeth example in the video). *insert your more nuanced word here
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Jan 2, 2019 16:33
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Viewtiful Jew posted:I'd rather have someone believe the Earth was flat than believe that secret Satan Jews are eating little kids and wearing their faces while also deceiving people about the Earth being flat by using holograms and poo poo. Conspiracy types tend to collect the whole set, so you're not likely to find someone who subscribes to one without also supporting the rest.
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Jan 2, 2019 16:54
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my conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories once constructed are spread as a Bernays-style method of social control 
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Jan 2, 2019 16:57
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My beef with Rowling is that she wants to fancy herself as progressive but without taking any risks. Dumbledore is gay after she made her media empire. She had an opportunity this past year to have a movie featuring a gay relationship, but hid it behind vague subtext (if even that). Now, I understand that she doesn’t have 100% control over the movies, and I’m sure at least one suit was worried about limiting audience appeal or standard corporate bullshit, but it still rubs me the wrong way.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:44
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bobjr posted:So for someone who knows more about flat earth people because it didn’t come up in the video, what do these people generally think about an edge you could presumably fall off of? Is there a bottom or do you just fall forever? It’s totally overthinking a crazy idea, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my head. It’s turtles all the way down.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:55
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Bonaventure posted:Lindsay's video was good (as always) but I think the Rowling Retcon™ phenomenon is only tangential to the broader idea of 'authorial intent.' There's a distinction, I think, between an author making up additional plot and stapling it onto an existing work versus the idea of interpreting the author's intended reception of meaning* by the reader, or examining a work in light of the meaning* that would have been provided by the cultural context of a given work's creation (viz. the Macbeth example in the video).
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Jan 2, 2019 19:10
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There are certainly interesting readings that can develop out of considering contexts like marketing or brand stewardship, especially when they feed sequels or later parasitic works like tv adaptations. In the context of brand management, Rowling’s choices of what to say when are a little more interesting than Johnny Carson asking Robert Frost where the two paths go or whatever.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:16
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Pants Donkey posted:My beef with Rowling is that she wants to fancy herself as progressive but without taking any risks. I mean, she's over fifty. She's used to a cultural setting where the mere implication of a good guy being gay (WHILE BEING A SCHOOL HEADMASTER) would be a career-ending scandal. As I said the last time Rowling's tepid diversity attempts (and lovely terfism) came up, folks really tend to forget how loving lightspeed the cultural changes have been since the internet. If you weren't an adult prior to like 2000, it's pretty difficult to understand just how hard western culture leaned into "gays are icky" and "transwomen are dudes in dresses with five o clock shadows and they're also icky." The widespread acceptance (granted with pushback and the need for further fighting) is a super recent, kind of miraculous thing, and it's not something that someone who came of age in the 70s is going to easily and naturally key into. I mean poo poo, Rowling came of age in a time where women wearing pants and having jobs was still a contentious issue. By that perspective, her poo poo is the modern equivalent of like ten gay poly transes.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:49
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Puppy Time posted:I mean, she's over fifty. She's used to a cultural setting where the mere implication of a good guy being gay (WHILE BEING A SCHOOL HEADMASTER) would be a career-ending scandal. I think that’s the big issue sure it would have been risky but you can’t play up your progressiveness while playing it rather safe
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Jan 2, 2019 20:57
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Groovelord Neato posted:it is interesting how we separate flat earthers from the tens of millions of people that believe in death panels, or immigrants being an invading horde, or neoliberal corporatists are communists. Is it? I kinda thought it was normal to segment conspiracy theorists by what crazy poo poo they thought was real. Like I'm not trying to combine people who think the Moon landing was fake with people who think Elvis is still alive or something. I dunno, I'm probably explaining this badly.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:06
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bobjr posted:So for someone who knows more about flat earth people because it didn’t come up in the video, what do these people generally think about an edge you could presumably fall off of? Is there a bottom or do you just fall forever? It’s totally overthinking a crazy idea, but I couldn’t get that thought out of my head. There's no single, unified model of a Flat Earth so there's actually multiple answers and you can choose the one that feels right for you. 1.) "Antarctica" is actually a massive ice wall that surrounds the earth, which is so thick and inhospitable that nobody has ever crossed it. 2.) The Earth actually encompasses the entirety of all Creation. Asking what happens if you fall off or leave it are nonsense questions. 3.) We just don't know. To give the Flat Earth movement that barest amount of credit, the larger figures are a lot more open about admitting that there's a lot that they simply don't know, when compared to other conspiracy groups. The line is typically that they first need to expose the globe-head conspiracy, because they'll never get the support or funding needed to research those larger questions as long as they're considered a fringe movement.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:10
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RareAcumen posted:Is it? I kinda thought it was normal to segment conspiracy theorists by what crazy poo poo they thought was real. Like I'm not trying to combine people who think the Moon landing was fake with people who think Elvis is still alive or something. i mean that we think oh those flat earthers are way out there when the other things i listed are just as ridiculous but are seen as part of "normal" discourse.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:12
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bobjr posted:Yeah I totally understand that how it doesn’t make sense wouldn’t change their minds or anything, I was just more curious if there was an explanation at all. EFB: On the ice wall theory. But anyway, I end up posting about them a lot, but there's a podcast called Oh No Ross and Carrie that covered flat earthers for awhile and even cooperated with them to do some experiments that help illustrate how the Earth is round (to no effect). They've got the patience of saints, and even they admitted that they're pretty much done with Flat Earthers because they're the most infuriating people to try and talk to. For the rest, a lot of Flat Earthers also probably believe all the Trump and right-wing conspiracy stuff. There's some that are just mentally ill or just kind of dumb, but a lot are coming from the same place as hardcore Trump people. Angry, unable to communicate why or analyze things, and ready to jump onto whatever bandwagon feels right or just right-wing people who only care about being superior or proving their religion is right.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:27
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Mr Phillby posted:It's my understanding that 'Authorial Intent' we refer to the Author's reading of the text as we only have their word on what exactly they were thinking and intending as the wrote the text. Any additional clarifications or undisclosed plot details expressed in interviews blogposts or essays are absoloutely part of the author's verified reading of the text. If you'd rather ignore such outside influence on the text that's exactly what death of the author is for, even if your reading is 'exactly what JK said minus the snake thing'. "The author" is not just "the author's reading of the text" or "their word" but also the cultural milieu in which the work was made and how that shaped the text. Consideration of the author is not an all or nothing game as some would have it. It's interesting, for instance, to consider also how authors' attitudes toward their own works change through time. I was reading some Roger Shattuck yesterday, a very traditional critic who absolutely does care what the "author" meant and how the author's life informed the work etc., but he talked about Camus' evolving relationship to L'Etranger, how (in his view) Camus was seduced by post-publication critical reaction to Mersault into misreading his own work. Rowling may have a very different "reading" of Harry Potter now that it's made her billions and laden the responsibilities and triumphs of being such an acclaimed author onto her back; it's not impossible to consider that the 'original intent' of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone differs from how that work might be understood by her within the context of her current Wizarding World Brand. But this is entirely different from declaring the death of the author. Bonaventure fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 21:35
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CYBEReris posted:my conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories once constructed are spread as a Bernays-style method of social control a rather badly constructed way of social control, considering it could be defeated by a surgical laser and a doctor willing to break tons of laws
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Jan 2, 2019 21:36
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CYBEReris posted:my conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories once constructed are spread as a Bernays-style method of social control No joke, you've entered the second layer of conspiracy theory hell, and have probably stared too long into the void, when you find people arguing about which theories are true and which are disinfo agents trying to discredit them. Pretty sure the Loose Change 9/11 truth forum once broke down over everyone arguing that everyone else was a secret Fed.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:41
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CYBEReris posted:my conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories once constructed are spread as a Bernays-style method of social control I'm honestly starting to wonder if the resurgence of "the Jews!" conspiracies is due in part to rich assholes seeing that people are starting to notice how they're loving over the world, and encouraging some misdirection because ruining society and encouraging genocide is preferable to having to pay taxes and follow regulations.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:50
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:For the rest, a lot of Flat Earthers also probably believe all the Trump and right-wing conspiracy stuff. There's some that are just mentally ill or just kind of dumb, but a lot are coming from the same place as hardcore Trump people. Angry, unable to communicate why or analyze things, and ready to jump onto whatever bandwagon feels right or just right-wing people who only care about being superior or proving their religion is right. this is the thing with any conspiracy theorist. on its own, flat earth is just a funny dumb thing that's fun to laugh at, but invariably these are people who hate and distrust, well, reality itself. while i've never personally interacted with a flat earther, i have interacted with their cousins, the moon landing deniers, and they are always extremely right-wing anti-government types, even somewhat sovcit-y. what i've gleamed of flat earthers in general implies much the same, right down to some identical talking points (ie nasa are liars who make all their images with cgi and only exist to siphon taxpayer money, etc.).
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Jan 2, 2019 22:10
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The similar talking points makes a good amount of sense, since if you're a Flat-Earther you logically have to also be a moon landing denier.
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Jan 2, 2019 22:57
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Flat Earth is pretty similar to the death panel/Obama's an atheist/communist/Muslim block, it just hasn't had time to grow or get introduced to a big audience. Boomers and the alt-right believed in death panels because they left Fox News on for a weird mid-day segment, or they saw alt-right stuff shared on Facebook. There's nothing really stopping Flat Earth from at least growing to Qanon levels, if it's not addressed. Right now, YouTube autoplay just keeps feeding new people into the grinder. Also, I'm pretty sure there are a couple Flat Earth who think that there are may be other planets and moons and that they're round. We're just special. It gets into some weird old school pre-Copernicus solar system models. The sad thing is that Flat Earthers are sometimes well educated on very specific sections of scientific history.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:18
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I'm just disappointing Harris didn't cover that dude who tried to shoot himself into the stratosphere on a homemade steam powered rocket to try and disprove the Earth was round all on his own. That dude was almost admirably insane. He only made it about 2,000 feet into the air.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:42
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Puppy Time posted:I mean, she's over fifty. She's used to a cultural setting where the mere implication of a good guy being gay (WHILE BEING A SCHOOL HEADMASTER) would be a career-ending scandal. That said, she does spend most of her Internet time these days ranting about a Leader of the Opposition who's sixteen years older than her and more progressive in pretty much every way. In a sense, she's a product of her time, but mostly because she came of age during one of the U.K.'s several periods of national psychosis rather than because of some Whiggish march-of-history dealio.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:56
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Big Joel has a new video on the failing themes and iconography of Over the Hedge, and I'm pretty sure deep analysis of forgettable animated films is one of my favourite types of video essays.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:02
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People can be convinced of almost anything under the right circumstances, and the Flat Earth isn't even the craziest example I've seen. Just watch the Down the Rabbit Hole video on the Final Fantasy House. These were a bunch of people convinced that not only were they reincarnated, but that they were the reincarnations of characters who never even existed in the first place. It’s some insane poo poo, but it happened, and you can see similar accounts from former members of other cults. Depression and low self-esteem can render someone vulnerable to even the most obvious lies, to say nothing of the effect of more serious mental illness. I’ve always found conspiracy theories and other far-out ideas to be fascinating, though. Not in the sense that I believe them, but because they make excellent starting points for stories. In fact, I think that partially explains their appeal; a conspiracy narrative is an interesting story, and people want to feel like they’re the underdog hero defying the evil puppetmasters and shouting the truth to the world. It’s a lot more tempting than coming to terms with the fact that you’re just another face in the crowd with no ability to influence the world whatsoever.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:18
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Yvonmukluk posted:Lindsay's just snuck in a Death of The Author video just under the wire: But I probably should have written off the whole loving thing off when her reference point was some generic YA book and then moving onto Harry Potter.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:13
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