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DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
the song is "workin 9 to 5" not 8 to 5

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Sniep
Mar 28, 2004

All I needed was that fatty blunt...



King of Breakfast
on the west coast that song goes “working 11:30 till eh... what a way to make deece figgies~~”

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

Infinotize posted:

I will never change jobs again unless I don't have to do a coding test beyond fizzbuzz

if i start making a dece 6 figgies extremely same

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

KidDynamite posted:

if i start making a dece 6 figgies extremely same

at Google you'll make at least that

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER
serious though what kind of toxic culture has employees in the office at 8am the average adult isn't even awake at that point

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

ShadowHawk posted:

serious though what kind of toxic culture has employees in the office at 8am the average adult isn't even awake at that point

schools

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ShadowHawk posted:

serious though what kind of toxic culture has employees in the office at 8am the average adult isn't even awake at that point

have you ever lived outside the bay area? most of the country is at work by 730 and doesn't leave until after 530. and then they may have another job after.

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



ShadowHawk posted:

the average adult isn't even awake at that point

lol what

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



is the average adult a college student to you?

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER
there's a reason just about every measurable thing improves when school start times are moved later in the day

The MUMPSorceress
Jan 6, 2012


^SHTPSTS

Gary’s Answer

ShadowHawk posted:

there's a reason just about every measurable thing improves when school start times are moved later in the day

look at those goal posts fly

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
According to some study I googled, only 17% of working Americans sleep in until 8

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

ShadowHawk posted:

serious though what kind of toxic culture has employees in the office at 8am the average adult isn't even awake at that point

lol

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


my job starts at 930 but i show up at 10 and leave around 5 or 6 depending on my workload. sometimes i do a little work in the evening if i shove off early. west coast life.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

DELETE CASCADE posted:

According to some study I googled, only 17% of working Americans sleep in until 8
yeah cuz they're all working at lovely places without flex time and using alarm clocks

or they have to send their children to horribly early starting schools

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


my motivation for going remote isn't so much avoiding the office - in fact i think it's fairly important to have face to face experience regularly as well and i would love to have a nice office to not very far to go to. i think i want to go remote in order to a) distance myself from japanese working culture (i.e. i want my results to be measured, not my man-butt-hours), b) the pto system, which gives you around 10 days of pto, which is compensated with around 17 days of public holidays sprinkled around the year, but no easy way to change these days around so you can take a nice long vacation, and c) ideally i want to keep working the same job when my partner eventually chooses to switch jobs and therefore continents

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


ShadowHawk posted:

yeah cuz they're all working at lovely places without flex time and using alarm clocks

or they have to send their children to horribly early starting schools

:lol: flex time is a meager promise that can be taken back with a single pink slip, i would never rely on it

Mahatma Goonsay
Jun 6, 2007
Yum
my kids wake up at like 6 every morning so i might as well get going to work

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
my core work hours are approximately 10 to 4

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
it's that fortune five hunnerd lyfe

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it's that fortune five hunnerd lyfe

that's funny, the fortune 100 place i worked at forced us all into a 9~5 box and made us tally our hours

Munkeymon
Aug 14, 2003

Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.



jit bull transpile posted:

look at those goal posts fly

he's not wrong but it doesn't really support his assertion either

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

ShadowHawk posted:

serious though what kind of toxic culture has employees in the office at 8am the average adult isn't even awake at that point

dude i wake up at 5am daily and i don't sign on to work until 9:30 i don't even have kids. i just live like this. it's good.

Sniep
Mar 28, 2004

All I needed was that fatty blunt...



King of Breakfast
wait so there exist both morning people AND night owls?

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i worked 7 am to 5pm today incl. lunch but i billed every one of those loving hours so it's a wash

Cold on a Cob
Feb 6, 2006

i've seen so much, i'm going blind
and i'm brain dead virtually

College Slice
i'm normally a morning person except when i'm in a shitload of pain like right now :toot:

probably because i worked too long today lol

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the only thing that justifies your bloated american wages and standard of living is the high-bandwidth communication between you and the business stakeholders

as a remote staffer you're just an unusually bloated line item, easily changed out for someone cheaper


Notorious b.s.d. posted:

there's just not that big a difference between a farm league programmer in kansas and a farm league programmer in ukraine. foreigners are not magically stupid because they weren't born in the u.s.a

Part of it is amenable to culture within the teams and corporation. I've made long posts before in here about some advantages and scales for remote workers (i.e. devops giving you 24/7 coverage without anyone needing to work outside of business hours, good paper traces for most decisions and communications, and so on).

The company I work for is actively trying to split some efforts across offices and even campuses because some of the core teams are so tightly knit with a culture of "local-only" information sharing that they found it became a blocker to scaling the organisation and the product further.

You just can't keep going with 800+ developers and answering every technical question with "go grab person X from the third floor of building 2 who has worked on this for 12 years, they have the information", because person X from building 2 is spending 45 hours out of their 40 hours work week just acting as a bottleneck trying to answer a bunch of people's questions.

If the building are close enough, this is not enough of a hindrance for people. They don't use chat, e-mail, or phone, because they're used to just grabbing people whenever. So what they're doing is moving them to offices further away in the city so that people create better divisions and clearer communication channels (through Conway's law) and actively make things less based on specific people and more on specific teams.

At some point, some inklings of a remote culture can just start making sense. Maybe this does not apply to your workplace. Maybe it does. That's why it might be culture-specific.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

it just makes so little economic sense to keep a remote office in a high cost of labor area

A remote office is not a mandatory thing. Teams I've worked remotely with in the past included a majority of folks who worked either from home or from coworking spaces. A small satellite office would be open mostly when you'd end up with 3 or more devs who work remote and also want to work in an office.

If you open an office for remote people first this is usually just part of a growth strategy once you have trouble hiring within one region because you've emptied part of the market. At some point you may just have hired all of the experts in X in the area and you either need to train new ones, or to find another place to hire them from.


carry on then posted:

sitting in total silence and isolation for 8 hours a day five days a week isn't fun, even if you have other things to do outside of that. you miss out on impromptu shoot the poo poo sessions, having lunch with someone, even just being able to walk over to someone and talk to them if you need to instead of reaching out over slack/webex/phone call. plus, being physically present allows you to possibly overhear things you otherwise wouldn't and not being there makes you feel more out of the loop

none of this applies if this doesn't happen and/or you hate your coworkers though

I've done it for the last 8 years and I'm really fine with it. I do get to semi-frequently go to the office in-person (anywhere between one day every 2 weeks to one week every quarter based on the job and office).

Other local friends I know who also work remotely will often meet at a common desk island at a coworking space. You end up basically making friends locally who work for different companies in that case, and so you can keep working together no matter who you work for. It's kind of neat. I didn't do it much though because I would get a lot of unexpected meetings and calls that were not amenable to that coworking space, but I go there a few days a month.

Also I just enjoy working with no commute at all, while controlling the music, and having my own fridge and whatnot.

Captain Foo posted:

if you're going to listen to nbsd, 1) don't
2) go back in the thread for mononcqc's takes

The core of it if you're too lazy to go look is that remote works well when a majority of the team goes remote, and/or when the on-site folks at least tend to do a lot of async comms.

If the majority of the team is remote, you're likely to have a decent time. The higher the percentage, the better. You only go and work remote for a team that is >90% local if you're very used to it and know how to handle it.

Ultimately, it's part of a personal choice. "Culture fit" can be used to turn away people who aren't an exact copy of you, but it can also point towards communication patterns and personal preferences. It's entirely fair to turn down a remote job because you hate the lonelier "office" life or can't stay motivated to work from home. It's also entirely fair to feel much better to work remotely. And some people love open plan offices where other hate them absolutely. They're all just preferences of the work environment.

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

At some point you realize that if you got part of your team local to high cost areas like the bay area but a majority of remote employees, it may be cheaper to fly locals out to some neutral city along with the rest of the remote folks, even if you need to rent an office space or meeting rooms for a whole week.

It was nice, because we could just pick a different city every time according to what team members felt like visiting at that time of the year or weather. If you wanted, you could stretch the week-end a bit and just do touristy stuff without having to spend anything on plane tickets or most of your hotel stay or food.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

jit bull transpile posted:

have you ever lived outside the bay area? most of the country is at work by 730 and doesn't leave until after 530. and then they may have another job after.

my office building in nz doesnt even open until 8am

KidDynamite
Feb 11, 2005

Sniep posted:

wait so there exist both morning people AND night owls?

i'm a night owl but in the winter when you wake up and it's still dark out it's the most amazing thing you can get a lot of poo poo done, summer is loving hell for me though

mekkanare
Sep 12, 2008
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I would work 9 to 5 if I could. 9 PM to 5 AM. Instead I take a state van, so my hours are set at 7 am to 4 pm. It is nice not having to drive downtown and find/pay for parking.

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

JawnV6 posted:

you skip lunch?

lol if you care about lunch hours. management doesn't count their lunch

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

akadajet posted:

lol if you care about lunch hours. management doesn't count their lunch

[img of a CEOs work week]

Just make sure you have lunch with a coworker and talk briefly about something

Or idk, maybe think about work at some point during lunch.

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

yeaaah

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

jit bull transpile posted:

have you ever lived outside the bay area? most of the country is at work by 730 and doesn't leave until after 530. and then they may have another job after.

hosed up if true

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


I like turning up on the later side but not late enough that it annoys the boss. It's a fine balance.

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

jit bull transpile posted:

have you ever lived outside the bay area? most of the country is at work by 730 and doesn't leave until after 530. and then they may have another job after.

I get in around 9:30 and leave around 5:30

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde
shaggar can't be in the bay area, nobody codes for windows there

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

i found out Boston works significantly earlier than NYC the hard way. New York you show up at 930 and work to 7. it’s generally based on the markets.

now I’m in by 730 and out by 4 with the entire afternoon a coast.

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feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

DELETE CASCADE posted:

According to some study I googled, only 17% of working Americans sleep in until 8

'Wake up by 8' and 'at work by 8' are v different statements though.

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