|
Being that dive computers are electronics there is also the chance you could find yourself without a functional computer. I suck at dive tables but I can work my way through it
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 13:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
NO, don't buy a loving computer right away. I got burned by this: when I got back into the sport 5 years ago after a hiatus, I bought a set of computers, one for me, and one for the woman. And then she preceded to freak out in the pool sessions, and total gave up on diving all together. Thankfully, I was able to sell it off without much of a loss. And then I have a friend that I'll call Tevye. After just barely passing his OW last summer, he preceded to spend thousands and thousands on a full set of gear, including a $1000 air-integrated computer... only to wimp out and stop diving. He used it maybe three times last summer, and zero times this summer. Unless you have gently caress-you money, it really makes sense to acquire your gear SLOWLY. Figure out what you will actually use, and, more importantly, what kind of gear you want. There are a lot of decisions to make, and while there is lots of free advice online, until you start diving a bunch, you won't really know what *YOU* want. And yes, used gear is a good way to start! In My Opinion: Most importantly, everyone should buy their own mask and snorkel. Three reasons: -Hygiene -Mask fit is both super important and quirky, you just have try poo poo on until you find a winner -Even if you never dive again, you can still snorkel Next, definitely buy your own boots. Hygiene is the biggest reason, as boots are the single grossest piece of dive equipment there is. Vile bacteria and fungal factories. Also, entry level boots are cheap, and can be used for a wide variety of water sports. So there you go. My list of things for OW students to immediately buy is: -Mask -Snorkel -Boots If you are going to be diving in cold water, I would add gloves and a hood. Rental gloves aren't nearly as disgusting as boots, but fit is important, and moreover, can be used for a variety of things. I live in New England, and my local dive shop requires OW students to supply their own Mask, Snorkel, Boots, Gloves and Hood. Sidebar: if you are diving in cold water like I do, get the thickest, warmest hood that you can. Everyone in my dive club wears 9-12 MM drysuit hoods.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 16:15
|
|
|
Squashy Nipples posted:In My Opinion: My wife had a pretty serious cold on the first day of the course, so we are going to take the class in March instead. We picked out boots that first day in the store already and I'm going to get us masks and snorkels at some point this month so we can snorkel on our February trip even if we're not diving. Since we had to push back the class, we're now thinking we should do our anniversary trip (July) somewhere we can dive instead. What's a good US location for beginning divers that can also be fun above the water? I saw some pictures early in the thread from Hawaii which looked fantastic (I spent a summer in Maui once so it would be nice to return), but I haven't even looked at how crazy midsummer airfare/lodging is gonna be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 16:27
|
|
|
There are dive sites all around FL, and not just on the coast. The springs in the central part of the state have some of the clearest water you’ll ever see through. My shop runs trips to Key Largo and Jupiter on the Atlantic side, and Ginnie Springs/Devil’s Den/Blue Grotto in the north-central part of the state. The towns the springs are in tend to be tiny, but they shouldn’t be too far from anywhere that’s worth going to for reasons other than diving. NC has high potential (good days are great, but bad days have you wondering why you even bothered getting on the boat). The Graveyard of the Atlantic is here, and dive boats typically run from Wilmington, Morehead City/Beaufort, or up on the Outer Banks proper. Over 5,200 ships have been lost here since the 1530’s, but the conditions are variable (both sea state and visibility). We get fish life from the south (Gulf Stream), from the north (Labrador current), and from the wayyyy offshore that gets pushed in sometimes, and plenty of big toothy sand tigers that are curious about these weird bubble-breathers that keep showing up. Virginia is supposed to have some cool sites near Virginia Beach, like a WWII Liberty-class cargo ship that was carrying a ton of Sherman tanks when it was torpedoed and broke in half (spilling tanks all over the place), but I haven’t been there to experience that dive myself. SC is supposed to have some decent diving near Charleston, I hear...but I haven’t done that trip either. There’s a shark tooth diving operation in the Cooper River, but that’s a more advanced dive for any number of reasons (drift, silt, darkness, alligators, and probably others I’m forgetting).
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 16:43
|
|
|
You postponed it, smart man. Most people rush this poo poo. Do a lot of snorkeling and freediving on your vacation, work on your mask basics, and get comfortable with the fins. There are so many things to think about while diving that you want the mask stuff to be 100% instinctual. One other thing to add: if you live someplace cold, like I do, you can always do everything BUT the actual check out dives with your local dive shop (classroom sessions and pool work), and then do your check out dives while on vacation. I like this because warm water diving is just easier, cold water requires more equipment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 16:51
|
|
|
Only buy a snorkel if you intend to go snorkeling. I really wish PADI would stop teaching that you should dive with a snorkel because it's pants on head retarded to carry stuff that you have no use for under water, especially as a new diver.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 17:08
|
|
|
My understanding is that, in calm weather, the snorkels are just there to make things easy on the surface between surface skills? I mean that's how I spot a group of open water students - they are all flapping their hands and they are all wearing snorkels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 18:55
|
|
|
They're meant to be used for surface swims to dive sites, and CAN be helpful through surface chop to prevent unnecessary air use. But I agree they're obnoxious.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2019 19:10
|
|
|
Squashy Nipples posted:NO, don't buy a loving computer right away. I got burned by this: when I got back into the sport 5 years ago after a hiatus, I bought a set of computers, one for me, and one for the woman. And then she preceded to freak out in the pool sessions, and total gave up on diving all together. Thankfully, I was able to sell it off without much of a loss. This is great advice. Totally agree on the warm hood - I'm cold water, too, and not having a heavy thick hood is a great way to make for a super unpleasant experience.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2019 00:57
|
|
|
So I'm thinking about going to Europe, or maybe Egypt to dive in May or June. Do dive cert organizations really not matter? Say, NAUI and PADI will almost assuredly be interchangeable?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 15:57
|
|
|
In general, yes. The recreational dive certs are broadly interchangeable, but I would check with the shops you’re looking at diving with just to be safe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 16:05
|
|
|
GUE takes a substantially different approach than other agencies and is pretty common in Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2019 20:26
|
|
|
asur posted:GUE takes a substantially different approach than other agencies and is pretty common in Europe. I agree it is different, but I would be surprised to see a GUE certification as common anywhere, Europe or otherwise, compared to PADI, and I say this as a GUE certified diver. There is certainly a big GUE community in Europe, but as a proportion of all divers, GUE is still a pretty niche part of the diving population.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 01:57
|
|
|
Mandibular Fiasco posted:I agree it is different, but I would be surprised to see a GUE certification as common anywhere, Europe or otherwise, compared to PADI, and I say this as a GUE certified diver. There is certainly a big GUE community in Europe, but as a proportion of all divers, GUE is still a pretty niche part of the diving population. Hi fellow GUE friend  . I don’t think there are a ton of us here in SA
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 05:45
|
|
|
lord1234 posted:Hi fellow GUE friend I think you're right - I can think of two or three from the past...there was a Tech2 guy here once upon a time. I got as far as working to upgrade my Rec pass to Tech, but then kids happened and that was that. DPVs in my future, hopefully though!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 06:04
|
|
|
I got my basic, nitrox and rescue certs from PADI, but my advanced scuba diver cert is from NAUI, and nobody ever cared one way or the other. I'd be really curious if you guys could talk a little about how GUE differs in approach as I'm not familliar with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 06:46
|
|
|
Wickerman posted:So I'm thinking about going to Europe, or maybe Egypt to dive in May or June. Do dive cert organizations really not matter? Say, NAUI and PADI will almost assuredly be interchangeable? Yes they'll be fine in Egypt, European shops are pretty familiar with the big international qualification agencies and a number of regional organisations. You might want to have a link or something explaining what you qualification qualifies you to do (depth, mixes, etc) but you should be fine wherever. Re: GUE, my understanding is the major difference is they teach team rather than buddy diving. The others are the equipment requirements and stricter standards for things like buoyancy. Primary donate is one aspect that I know causes consternation with some shops/other agencies just because if they match with someone else, the emergency drills taught are suddenly very different and there is potential for that exacerbating an out of air incident.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 13:40
|
|
|
Mandibular Fiasco posted:I think you're right - I can think of two or three from the past...there was a Tech2 guy here once upon a time. You run into a lot of them down in Cave Country in Florida. While I like the idea of rigorous advanced training, I'm claustrophobic, so gently caress cave diving. I'm cool with some swim through wrecks, but other then that, I like to see the sun hitting the surface.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:40
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:I'd be really curious if you guys could talk a little about how GUE differs in approach as I'm not familliar with it. I am not a GUE instructor, but here is the GUE approach/philosophy of diving from my perspective - standardization of equipment, standardization of processes, and a focus on strong personal skills in the context of a team diving mindset. To illustrate a little: - GUE divers use the same equipment. Backplates and wings, long hose configuration, etc. The idea is that standard equipment allows for standard procedures for problem solving issues that arise. The equipment configuration evolved from something called the Hogarthian system, and variations are now used by many (all?) technical agencies. - GUE divers are trained to do things the same way. From dive planning, to pre-dive briefing, to descents and ascents, or emergencies, we use standard procedures to drive reliability and reduce errors. For example, an out-of-gas situation is handled the same way by every GUE diver, because we've all been drilled on it over and over and over again. It means that when something happens, we know exactly what to do for our teammate, and our teammate knows exactly what to do for us. You never have to guess. - GUE divers are trained to be good at their personal skills as building blocks to more advanced diving. These means a focus on buoyancy and trim from the first day, and all skills are done neutrally buoyant. Other agencies are doing this now, but from what I understand, GUE was the first. - Progressions within the GUE system are built so that a fundamentals diver can take everything they have learned forward, and not have undo or relearn something later on when they want to take on more aggressive diving. The system works, so that adding a DPV, going from singles to doubles, adding a stage (or two, or three), all progress nicely. I found it super-easy to go from a BPW in singles to doubles and a corded light head. New wing, new weights, new light, twinset, and done. I already knew how to dive a BPW, so going to a larger wing and a twinset was comparatively easy. Adding a corded primary light was also straight forward, as there was already a place for it in my setup. Some take issue with the approach that it creates robots and doesn't allow for individuality. I disagree. A GUE diver is a thinking diver and the standard processes and equipment are no different than what we see in other high reliability organizations like aviation that aim for safe outcomes every time. Individuality in a high risk activity means variation which means unquantified risk differences from the standard approach. Diving, especially at technical and cave levels, is still pretty high risk stuff so I suggest this sort of thinking is reasonable. Notwithstanding all of that, GUE divers like to go diving. The community is growing, and one of the best features is the welcoming group of like-minded people you'll meet through GUE events. It is about fun, but generally, most of us see the system as a way of maximizing our fun and minimizing risk and stress. Some get hung up on the nonsense of which approach is better, but the truth is that no one truly knows. I liked the GUE approach, so I pursued it and have enjoyed it thoroughly (thought it was pretty damned hard at times!)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 21:03
|
|
|
Yeah, that sounds a more systematic approach for turning out skilled divers; I feel like based on my experience PADI is going for maximum accessibility and simplicity but that doesn't mean it produces better divers. As a massive nerd I would have preferred GUE's approach.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 00:15
|
|
|
GUE was actually the first cert agency I looked up when I decided to invest in certification, but instructors were pretty few and far between.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 01:24
|
|
|
I signed up for the NAUI diver cert and I'll probably also do a nitrox cert as well, since they offer that during the open water dives. Pretty excited right now!
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 01:30
|
|
|
Wickerman posted:I signed up for the NAUI diver cert and I'll probably also do a nitrox cert as well, since they offer that during the open water dives. Pretty excited right now! Welcome aboard!
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 01:36
|
|
|
Wickerman posted:I signed up for the NAUI diver cert and I'll probably also do a nitrox cert as well, since they offer that during the open water dives. Pretty excited right now! I strongly recommend it, the nitrox cert is one you will use a lot pretty much right away. Welcome to the underwater world!
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 03:28
|
|
|
Congrats on learning to dive, it owns! But my vote is wait on nitrox, you aren’t going to hit deco issues right after OW. And you have a lot to think about the first few times, worrying about mixes and max depth isn’t necessary.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 05:59
|
|
|
let it mellow posted:Congrats on learning to dive, it owns! But my vote is wait on nitrox, you aren’t going to hit deco issues right after OW. And you have a lot to think about the first few times, worrying about mixes and max depth isn’t necessary. This is a good point, too, of course.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 06:21
|
|
|
Kesper North posted:Yeah, that sounds a more systematic approach for turning out skilled divers; I feel like based on my experience PADI is going for maximum accessibility and simplicity but that doesn't mean it produces better divers. As a massive nerd I would have preferred GUE's approach. Different philosophies. PADI is about accessibility, and this may be OK. However, one of the stats I heard in my PADI OWD course was that in a year, 90% of us wouldn't be diving. They were right - there were two of us who still dove, and both of us got into GUE training. The others evaporated. If I was running a business, and I consistently lost 90% of my repeat customers, I might wonder if I was doing something wrong. My own personal belief is that a proportion of these people have a bad experience, and decide diving isn't for them. I often wonder if that bad experience might be remedied through better/more comprehensive training. Hard to say, but interesting to think about.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 06:26
|
|
|
I dunno, my guess from no data is that most people learn to dive because they are visiting near/on holiday at a cool diving destination, but don't get much opportunity to do it back home. Then it comes down not just to whether they like diving but whether they will plan whole future trips around it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 00:47
|
|
|
Strategic Tea posted:I dunno, my guess from no data is that most people learn to dive because they are visiting near/on holiday at a cool diving destination, but don't get much opportunity to do it back home. Then it comes down not just to whether they like diving but whether they will plan whole future trips around it. I think this is a good chunk of people, but one would think that the industry would be keen to find ways to retain customers, rather than constantly having to grow new ones. A maxim in sales is always to keep the customers you have because it's a lot hard to get 'em back once you've lost them, and finding new ones to replace them isn't any easier either. Personally, I'd just like to see more people who start diving keep diving.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 01:00
|
|
|
Don’t most hobbies have around a 90% drop out rate? Especially with so much specialised equipment required for diving. Same as my experiences with roller derby, barre yoga, surfboard aerobics, stand up comedy, dnd, etc. Lots of people will try something once but won’t make it part of their regular lifestyle. Especially if they don’t live near the beach. “In a year, 90% of us won’t be diving” seems like a perfectly reasonable and expected statistic for a hobby like this. Vast majority of divers only get the chance to dive once per year, so maybe should cite a 5-year return for a more meaningful indicator.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 08:59
|
|
|
Mandibular Fiasco posted:I think this is a good chunk of people, but one would think that the industry would be keen to find ways to retain customers, rather than constantly having to grow new ones. A maxim in sales is always to keep the customers you have because it's a lot hard to get 'em back once you've lost them, and finding new ones to replace them isn't any easier either. Who is retaining customers though? The only two places that can really do so are the local diveshop, that's entirely dependent on location, and cert agencies, which have little monetary motivation to do so. Everyone else except the few liveaborad groups are pretty much solo operators and most people aren't constantly revisiting the same place to dive. There's also an added issue that if you haven't dove in a year a lot of places will justifiably want you to take a refresher course which puts another barrier for a lot of people to continue. How many bad experiences have you seen that you think it's driving people away? I'm only at 150 dives, but I've only seen someone have a bad experience once.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 09:11
|
|
|
I've got a slightly different perspective on this as I'm in a pretty big club and we do a real-tim large amount of training for new divers, probably 20-30 each year. We do try dive sessions as well and if say 40-50% of them go on to do a course. We probably have a similar level of 80% of divers that qualify with us who don't go on to become club members. That's not because they didn't enjoy it, we have good instructors and are directly incentivised to keep people diving. In many cases it's because they wanted to learn for a single trip or they wanted to learn but ultimately don't have the time/money to really invest in the hobby. That's not to say PADI and other agencies don't have quality control issues but I don't that the rate at which people who do a course go diving again within a year is a great statistic to reflect the quality of training.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 09:54
|
|
|
I have a house at a dive shop, and still can only get there once per year. It’s an expensive, inaccessible hobby, I am delighted so many people even get to try it once.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 10:51
|
|
|
Cost and accessibility leave out a large portion of the country. But I think the drop out rate is lower than two of my older hobbies, skydiving and motorcycle racing, which both have an arguably higher cost. As I type this I think location and money are likely the biggest drivers for all three sports. I stopped but due to moving away from well supported and safe facilities.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
asur posted:How many bad experiences have you seen that you think it's driving people away? I'm only at 150 dives, but I've only seen someone have a bad experience once. On the trips I've been on, at least one or two people (of 6-8) are clearly not having any fun. Some of this may have to do with the fact I'm a cold water diver, but nevertheless, a bad experience is a bad experience.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 05:01
|
|
|
Switchback posted:Don’t most hobbies have around a 90% drop out rate? Especially with so much specialised equipment required for diving. Same as my experiences with roller derby, barre yoga, surfboard aerobics, stand up comedy, dnd, etc. Lots of people will try something once but won’t make it part of their regular lifestyle. Especially if they don’t live near the beach. No idea about the statistics - I'm not claiming it's true, just that it's an interesting idea that in my n=1 case seemed to support the position that was offered.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 05:03
|
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:Only buy a snorkel if you intend to go snorkeling. I love my snorkel. I can't count the amount of times that I've used it for either swimming out to a dive site or when waiting for the boat to pick you up and it's choppy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 20:34
|
|
|
I don’t carry a snorkel when shore diving but when boat diving I carry one if the water is choppy. I would like a nice roll up snorkel but I’m cheap so... Florida report - poo poo visibility, cold water, and my wife decided clothes shopping was a good alternative.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 21:05
|
|
|
Does anyone have any dive operator recommendations for Okinawa?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 23:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
I spent two days diving with this guy and had a great experience. https://www.okinawa39ers.com/ Friendly, safe, cool dive sites. I'm a pretty inexperienced diver and don't speak any japanese, so I just wanted someone to sort out all the logistics and show me some cool places. I imagine if you're more involved and managing your own transport and gear you could probably find cheaper. And if there's a specific site you really want to see there might be better options as the group wasn't big enough to charter a boat, so it was dependent on what other boats were running on the days we were diving.
|
|
#
?
Feb 17, 2019 05:26
|
|
