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Glass of Milk posted:Robert is childish, a teenager, and prone to the irrational behavior that teens show- for him his father's death (even in war) is nothing less than a murder. It's the same mindset that leads him to think his father could be alive though all evidence is against it and his expectation he'll show up immediately and victoriously defeat his father's killer. He's on a fool's errand to save his father, and barring that, avenge him, but he's too naive to realize he's basically doomed from the start. How old of a teenager are we talking here? I could see a twelve-year-old wanting to hunt down his father's killer from the war, but a twelve-year-old isn't going to be able to do it. On the flip side, I can see an eighteen-year-old being capable of hunting down his father's killer, but an eighteen-year-old in 1917 is going to have realized a lot of people have died in the war and pinning the blame on one rank-and-file soldier is pointless.
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Jan 5, 2019 07:01
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Right between- fifteen. It wasn't particularly common in WW1 for Americans that young to go from my research, though something like 250k British teens under 18 served. It wasn't too uncommon around the era, though- in the US Civil War it's thought as many as 20% of the soldiers were under 18. Specific to the story, there's an adult who helps convince the character to enlist by promising to use his rank and influence to get him to an air squadron directly. An adult might be skeptical (though plenty of at-age recruits are made similar promises), but someone young, emotionally vulnerable and impressionable... I remember being fifteen pretty well. It's not the best age in the best of times.
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Jan 5, 2019 09:43
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Glass of Milk posted:I really want to avoid making it a list of things that happen, but I take your meaning. I guess I'm trying to approach it like the book blurb, and I guess it's a little more informative than that. You're right, don't make a list, but you need to present some kind of specific dilemma Robert faces. Without any specifics, I can't see the shape of the story. I mean, your queries aren't even making it clear that Robert is joining an air squadron at all. You are not conveying enough information. *** I don't want to be mean and pick apart a story when I have so little information, but for me the premise still seems to have a plausibility problem. Your justification for Robert going off to war is that he's immature/childish and doesn't really understand what war is... but he's recruited by an adult who should be mature enough to understand what war is. And if the high-ranking officer cared so much about Robert's father, would be really try and recruit Robert's underage, emotionally vulnerable, and (in your own words) childish son to join the same war that claimed his life? The high-ranking officer should know that the chance of finding the one who killed Robert's father are slim at best, and that person could die long before Robert gets a chance for revenge. Maybe they're already dead for all he knows. Robert should understand some of that at least, if he's capable of keeping up a ruse that he's 18. Ignore this paragraph if Robert is joining as support staff and not as a pilot. By recruit him to an air squadron, it gives me the impression that he's going to be a pilot. I suppose that could be possible if his father flew crop dusters or something and taught him, but otherwise it seems like he would need a bit of time being trained how to fly. You could do that off-screen, but if you do so, you make people wonder how he could get through training without anyone suspecting his age. If you do it on-screen, it's more time it takes to get the story started. To me, the whole premise of wanting revenge and being recruited by a high-ranking officer to get it doesn't make a lot of sense if Robert's father was killed by an enemy soldier... but it would make a lot more sense if the high-ranking officer suspected that Robert's father was killed by a traitor on the inside, but can't prove it. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Jan 5, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 15:14
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I don't want to be mean and pick apart a story when I have so little information, but for me the premise still seems to have a plausibility problem. Your justification for Robert going off to war is that he's immature/childish and doesn't really understand what war is... but he's recruited by an adult who should be mature enough to understand what war is. And if the high-ranking officer cared so much about Robert's father, would be really try and recruit Robert's underage, emotionally vulnerable, and (in your own words) childish son to join the same war that claimed his life? The high-ranking officer should know that the chance of finding the one who killed Robert's father are slim at best, and that person could die long before Robert gets a chance for revenge. Maybe they're already dead for all he knows. Robert should understand some of that at least, if he's capable of keeping up a ruse that he's 18. I appreciate talking it through, and all the help- I haven't been clear enough in the query, and it took months to work out how to position the characters to make this happen. If there's issues that don't make sense or seem implausible, then it's better to find them now. I've had it edited and proofread a couple times, and it hasn't come up as an issue, but new perspectives are always helpful. So, specifically, there's a Colonel McAllen, a recently retired lifelong solider from a family of soldiers, but his conceit is that he's convinced that "war makes men", that there's no way for Robert to deal with his grief except to confront it directly by going to fight. So the Colonel believes he's doing the right thing by getting Robert into the fight, and he believes he has enough connections within the military to make this happen- to circumvent all of the training that's needed. It's an insane thought for today, but there are examples of this happening during the war- specifically as research and part inspiration, I had read the memoir "Horses Don't Fly" where the author was a truck driver and answered a flyer looking for airmen and went on to become an observer/gunner in the space of a couple weeks. I think perhaps I misspoke by calling Robert childish- a better word would be sheltered, I guess? He's hurting, in a society and time that doesn't have the same concepts of dealing with grief that we do now, and he's suddenly being told by an authority figure, "Hey, going off and fighting will make you feel better, and I can make it happen painlessly for you." It's an incredibly flawed idea, and Colonel MacAllen is approaching things from his particularly warped perspective. He's doing a tremendous disservice to Robert, but he's convinced it's right because of his own experiences and frankly, his hubris. And Robert, for his part, is naive or desperate enough to believe him. And when it turns out that the Colonel (of course) can't deliver on his promises- well, that's the novel- Robert's signed up to go avenge his father in an effort to get closure, but when he runs into people who finally tell him "You can't do this", the rest of the story is the resolution.
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Jan 5, 2019 19:18
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I've tried to revise the query to be less terrible: Revenge, fifteen-year-old Robert had decided, was the only way to heal a heart. On a cold November morning in the year 1917, Robert learns that his beloved father’s plane had gone missing over the skies of France. In a society that offers no outlet for his pain, he lashes out at his faith, his friends and his grieving mother. It’s only when Colonel John MacAllen, a lifelong soldier and war hawk, provides Robert with a proposal that seems to offer a remedy to his despair: to speed Robert to the war, to use the Colonel’s connections and influence to bypass all obstacles, and to somehow help Robert find release in vengeance. For the young and desperate teenager, there seems to be no other way to move on, and it speaks to a flickering hope he still holds that his father might live, and that Robert might yet find him if he goes. At first, all proceeds as the Colonel had promised, but with suspicions mounting about him as he moves farther from home, Robert withdraws inwards for fear of being discovered. Worse, he discovers that there are limits to the Colonel’s influence among the officers he encounters. With nobody else to turn to, Robert must learn to trust those around him to be able to determine his father’s fate. His quest for that knowledge may put him and his new friends in danger, but his desire for vengeance may only lead to ruin.
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Jan 5, 2019 23:26
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I rewrote it the way I would given the content of yours: A young man will discover whether the cure for grief is revenge. In November 1917, after learning of his father's disappearance during a mission over France, Robert, in his anguish, lashes out at his faith, friends, and his heartbroken mother. The mysterious colonel MacAllen offers Robert an enticing proposition: enlist, bypass the barriers designed to prepare soldiers for the horrors of war, and discover the truth of his father's fate behind enemy lines - an offer the impetuous 15 year old cannot refuse. Things go wrong from the start, and Robert finds himself on the front lines of the most hellish conflict in human history with none of the training of a regular soldier and beyond the limits of the colonel's influence, surrounded by soldiers who doubt his motives and abilities. He must rely on his brothers in arms while discovering the courage inside himself to survive without letting the thirst for vengeance lead him to ruin. Fate Accomplice fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jan 6, 2019 |
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Jan 5, 2019 23:52
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ketchup vs catsup posted:I rewrote it the way I would given the content of yours: Holy poo poo. This. I had no idea what you were really going for (as has been said) but this poster's summary of your story (that I haven't read, of course) tells me much more of what to expect.
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Jan 6, 2019 04:00
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ketchup vs catsup posted:I rewrote it the way I would given the content of yours: This is why I need an editor. Thank you, this is excellent and succinct. What a difference from the original query: so much more representative of the actual story.
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Jan 6, 2019 05:03
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Cool, really glad that was useful to you. My biggest advice given what I’ve read thus far of yours is to condense into fewer words whenever possible. I tried to hit ~every piece of story information you covered in your version just with many fewer words, with the notable exception of stuff about the colonel, because from what I can tell this is a) not his story and b) not nearly as potentially interesting as the story of a young man fueled by vengeance and at the same time totally out of his depth.
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Jan 6, 2019 06:35
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ketchup vs catsup posted:Cool, really glad that was useful to you. I can appreciate the sentiment, and all of the help has helped me understand better what agents are looking for. Hell, it will help me better summarize the story to people who just ask me. Thanks again to you, Stabbey_the_Clown and Nae! for the feedback and help.
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Jan 6, 2019 19:09
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On the subject of queries, a lot of agencies are re-opening after their winter break now so I’m diving back into the trenches. My body is ready for the inevitable million rejections.
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Jan 7, 2019 17:53
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hypothetically, if you were tasked to go on a expedition to an island full of strange creatures and dangerous flora, what experts shall you bring with you? (i'm having issues deciding what comprises my main expedition team for a short story of mine)
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Jan 8, 2019 18:44
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Fruity20 posted:hypothetically, if you were tasked to go on a expedition to an island full of strange creatures and dangerous flora, what experts shall you bring with you? (i'm having issues deciding what comprises my main expedition team for a short story of mine) Botanist, biologist, doctor, soldier, also what's the setting?
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Jan 8, 2019 19:35
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Don't forget to bring the bumbling-but-well-meaning-goofball. A Gilligan-type, if you will.
feedmyleg fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 19:53
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Don't forget the manager/owner/moneybag going because they're bankrolling the whole thing, and they can bring whatever useless 'specialist' they fancy, like a porn historian. Obviously, a stowaway too, of any specialization. Such as, another porn historian. The two experts argue throughout whole story, including a dramatic moment when John is passionately explaining to Willie that 'No, if you look at the original carving the lithograph was made from she's clearly not su-' only to be cut off by an erupting volcano. The key moment of usefulness to the expedition is their clearly identifying a plant because they've seen a Greek fresco of it sticking out of an orifice.
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Jan 8, 2019 20:17
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somebody good at plants, somebody good at bodies, somebody good at rocks, somebody good at driving
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Jan 8, 2019 20:32
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Chairchucker posted:Botanist, biologist, doctor, soldier, also what's the setting? it's modern and possibly in the near future. (it's kinda like skull island but with dragons and lizard people on it.... and one of the crew's anthropologist becomes a giant woman) Fruity20 fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 20:32
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Fruity20 posted:hypothetically, if you were tasked to go on a expedition to an island full of strange creatures and dangerous flora, what experts shall you bring with you? (i'm having issues deciding what comprises my main expedition team for a short story of mine) Here's some rl inspiration: https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/28/17770988/google-earth-mount-lico-discovery-secret-mozambique-rainforest-expedition
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Jan 8, 2019 20:37
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Oh dear, the non-native english writer and long time lurker from a few pages ago is back. I do have a full story now, 4500 words. I plan to submit the swedish version to my "publisher" in a few days, after doing another revision (It's a small but hard-working swedish publisher, and he does release some of my short stories in E-book and audiobook format). I've also done a translation in English. It's a kind of darrrrrrk and grrrrim fantasy/horror story, and it's actually based on the lyrics of one of the songs for our crappy doomish-stonerish metal band. It's called "Smoke on the bog"... yeah, you get the pun. Actually, it's not about that kind of "smoke" at all. Anyway, we're thinking about releasing the song on our up-and-coming first album, perhaps as a single, so I imagine that some kind of co-release of the short story would be cool. At least we can re-use the artwork. Is there someone who would be interested in looking at this story? The main thing would be pointing out blatant grammatical faults, and terrible misuse of words. I seem to realize what mistakes I've done as soon as I become aware of them, but I miss a lot of stuff. If you have suggestions for the story itself, go ahead. So... a non-english dude trying to do a slightly bloody and creepy, but still aloof, Borges in English. How bad can it be? If I've understood everything correct, the best thing to do is to paste a link to a google doc in the "Fiction submission" thread, right? Nevermind, I'll go and do that... Edit: seems the Fiction Submission is dead so I have to start a new thread. Stupid me. Edit 2: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3879199 NoButterUtter fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jan 10, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 22:04
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crabrock posted:somebody good at plants, somebody good at bodies, somebody good at rocks, somebody good at driving Mary Ann, Ginger, The Professor, The Skipper SelenicMartian posted:Don't forget the manager/owner/moneybag going because they're bankrolling the whole thing Thurston Howell III...
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Jan 8, 2019 22:15
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Fruity20 posted:hypothetically, if you were tasked to go on a expedition to an island full of strange creatures and dangerous flora, what experts shall you bring with you? (i'm having issues deciding what comprises my main expedition team for a short story of mine) What are they interested in? Mineral extraction? Finding new drugs from the plant life? Cataloging animals for the Smithsonian? Studying a tribe of Bigfoots without their knowledge? Totally sickk rock climbing on the seacliffs? Also decide how much support crew they're bringing, because the cook or the porters might be some of the most interesting characters, but that's only if the expedition has that kind of a crew. Maybe they all plan to sleep in bivvy sacks and eat freeze-dried food for every meal.
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Jan 8, 2019 22:30
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Fruity20 posted:hypothetically, if you were tasked to go on a expedition to an island full of strange creatures and dangerous flora, what experts shall you bring with you? (i'm having issues deciding what comprises my main expedition team for a short story of mine)
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Jan 8, 2019 23:02
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SelenicMartian posted:porn historian. "Guys, why?" "We're breaking ground our way." "Do I want to know?" "We'll establish the first cache of woods porn in this land!" But then, at the first decent hollow log they find, it turns out Fruity20 posted:lizard people "Huh, I've seen stuff like this on the internet." "Dude, we all have twitters, you don't need to be low-key about furries." the porn historians are also essential to defusing first contact "How did you know the right shape of dragon dildo to bring?" "I didn't," opens gigantic "holy poo poo." Fruity20 posted:it's modern and possibly in the near future. (it's kinda like skull island
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Jan 9, 2019 00:15
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Fruity20 posted:it's modern and possibly in the near future. (it's kinda like skull island but with dragons and lizard people on it Conan Doyle's The Lost World might be some inspiration (obviously dated, though). It's been said, but the makeup will depend on: 1. Who's sending them. 2. Why they're sent there. 3. What other (known) groups might be sent there that the team will have to contend with. 4. With whom the conflict will occur (animals, other teams, lizard people, porn historians).
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Jan 9, 2019 20:24
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NoButterUtter posted:Oh dear, the non-native english writer and long time lurker from a few pages ago is back. I do have a full story now, 4500 words. I plan to submit the swedish version to my "publisher" in a few days, after doing another revision (It's a small but hard-working swedish publisher, and he does release some of my short stories in E-book and audiobook format). I've also done a translation in English. It's a kind of darrrrrrk and grrrrim fantasy/horror story, and it's actually based on the lyrics of one of the songs for our crappy doomish-stonerish metal band. It's called "Smoke on the bog"... yeah, you get the pun. Actually, it's not about that kind of "smoke" at all. Anyway, we're thinking about releasing the song on our up-and-coming first album, perhaps as a single, so I imagine that some kind of co-release of the short story would be cool. At least we can re-use the artwork. Yes, put it in a thread and link it here and in creative chat if you like
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Jan 9, 2019 20:35
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sebmojo posted:Yes, put it in a thread and link it here and in creative chat if you like Like this? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3879199 Oh, by the way... It seems that the thread has the "shitpost" banner, and it probably is, but for the future - what did I do wrong and can I change it?
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Jan 10, 2019 21:04
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NoButterUtter posted:Like this? "shitpost" is the default thread tag, if you don't designate one when you start a thread it'll use shitpost. You can pretty much use whatever tag you want (except "Attention", "Hot", or "Ban Me", which will cause an autoban), I don't think anyone pays that close of attention. I don't think it's something you can fix after the fact, but it's possible sebmojo can as a mod? I don't want to write checks he can't cash though.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:13
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Yes I can, but I'm on my phone for the next few days so mod stuff is a pain, I'll do it when I get home though.
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Jan 10, 2019 21:27
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I queried too early. I jumped the gun. poo poo. I knew I would do this. I'm always so impatient with this stuff. Luckily I've only queried like 5 places so far (3 form rejections and 2 that may never come back considering) and then finally had the brains to sit back and actually take a good look. I think my query is fine, but my sample pages had stuff I couldn't believe I (and several beta readers) had missed. So now I'm going to go over the whole MS again with a fine-tooth comb and touch it up before I even think about another round of queries. Don't query early folks. It hurts bad.
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Jan 16, 2019 02:14
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Fruity20 posted:I'm doing some world building and i wanted to avoid the unfortunate implications of calling other completely different sapient beings as "races", opting to use "species" instead. my only real problem is how can i explain how hybrids happen between different species? I'd go with 'folk' or 'kin'.
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Jan 16, 2019 19:06
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Megazver posted:I'd go with 'folk' or 'kin'. Sounds like a mighty folkin fine idea
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Jan 16, 2019 19:25
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Under the assumption that it's a fantasy setting: D'you have a hundred races (or folk/kin, that's a good suggestion) or something? If there are just a few combinations, maybe it makes sense to use context-specific terms. An elf might refer to an elf-human hybrid as a Stub-Ear or a Partial (I don't know how politically horrible or not your setting is). Otherwise, cross-kin as a neutral term?
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Jan 16, 2019 19:52
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anatomi posted:Under the assumption that it's a fantasy setting: D'you have a hundred races (or folk/kin, that's a good suggestion) or something? If there are just a few combinations, maybe it makes sense to use context-specific terms. An elf might refer to an elf-human hybrid as a Stub-Ear or a Partial (I don't know how politically horrible or not your setting is). Otherwise, cross-kin as a neutral term? urban fantasy...and a freaking kitchen sink. the main kin however are
if it helps, it's a bit more nobledark or kinda dark but people can try to make the best out of it.
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Jan 17, 2019 16:03
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That I would just describe as Factions.
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Jan 17, 2019 17:01
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Fruity20 posted:urban fantasy...and a freaking kitchen sink. So humans can become these, but they also come along on their own? Is there any difference between a natural-born faerah and one that a human turned into- do either of those species have a name for it (or a pejorative)? Comedy option: You could call them the Ish. Yeah, he's human-Ish. Vampire-Ish.
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Jan 17, 2019 21:10
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Is there a word for when you drop your smartphone on your face?
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Jan 17, 2019 21:45
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Glass of Milk posted:So humans can become these, but they also come along on their own? Is there any difference between a natural-born faerah and one that a human turned into- do either of those species have a name for it (or a pejorative)? natural born tend to be stronger mostly and live longer. most natural born tend to look down on faerah who use to be human.
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Jan 18, 2019 02:09
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anatomi posted:Is there a word for when you drop your smartphone on your face?
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Jan 18, 2019 02:22
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anatomi posted:Is there a word for when you drop your smartphone on your face? dropping a smartphone on your face
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Jan 18, 2019 02:28
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anatomi posted:Is there a word for when you drop your smartphone on your face? "Felch"
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Jan 18, 2019 02:35
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