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Lightning Knight posted:What am I even meant to derive from such a comic besides the most obvious conclusion that I should be sad that the government shut down? Like... yeah. Duh. In this instance, the intended message is also to draw a parallel between the wall shutdown and the trade war with China. Generally, China Daily runs neutral cartoons because it makes their non-neutral cartoons effective. Persuasive messaging works in no small part by containing true or appealing elements that open targets to subsequent persuasion, including persuasion to viewpoints or beliefs that the target otherwise wouldn't accept. This is a very basic and very effective strategy, and it's the basis of the large majority of the messaging of conventional propaganda media systems- getting the target population to rely on it as a source of information or analysis. Knowing that a source is state propaganda helps, but it is a necessary, not sufficient, means to prevent its effects. We're no more immune to it than a doctor getting free pens from an oxy company.
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Jan 14, 2019 20:54
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Lightning Knight posted:What am I even meant to derive from such a comic besides the most obvious conclusion that I should be sad that the government shut down? Like... yeah. Duh. “The message here is simple, obvious, and I agree with it therefore it can’t really be propaganda” is a hell of a take It’s possible for a propaganda outfit to put out works that are designed to make you nod your head in agreement so that you don’t think too hard when it slides in a more vicious message, that’s like 50% of those Nazi cartoons that get posted here
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Jan 14, 2019 20:54
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Common sense, much like the wall, is something that only morons believe in. AGC. Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 14, 2019 |
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Jan 14, 2019 20:56
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skeleton warrior posted:“The message here is simple, obvious, and I agree with it therefore it can’t really be propaganda” is a hell of a take I mean, it’s barely taking a stance at all. It’s very nearly “a thing happened,” the only meaningful editorializing in it is that the plug has a frowny face. That’s also the first time I’ve seen that artist posted in this thread tbh. The difference between that and Stonetoss is that the closest to a normal person opinion I’ve seen him do is the “bike riders are insufferable” comic, he’s otherwise consistently terrible and just hides it behind layers of misdirection. He doesn’t do “a thing happened” comics like that one. Like, post an example of China guy trying to persuade us of something actually bad, if only for reference.
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Jan 14, 2019 20:58
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Democrats continue to rightly point out that the border crisis is manufactured via press release and statements to the news media, AGC?
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Jan 14, 2019 20:58
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Lightning Knight posted:
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Jan 14, 2019 21:01
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Discendo Vox posted:C'mon, I didn't even say sneaky. It doesn't have to be sneaky. It is, however, part of a large, sophisticated propaganda apparatus, that targets us. I still hold out hope that you one day will use that same lens to examine media from your own culture and stop pretending that the only insidious propaganda is the one that's funded by foreign states.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:01
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The difference is there’s a lot more editorial here. “Vegans and bike riders are assholes” is a strongly debatable premise. “The government shut down because of the wall” is borderline a statement of fact. Edit: my point is, am I supposed to reflexively disagree with a cartoonist saying a thing happened that did indeed happen if the cartoonist is from a country my government doesn’t like? Because I think that’s stupid. Like Putin is bad but if Putin says the sky is blue, what the gently caress do I do, say nu uh it’s red! Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 14, 2019 |
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Jan 14, 2019 21:02
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Lightning Knight posted:Oh I didn’t even notice that. I'm not sure I get it- Congress is powered by China? Is it a DEBT thing? What is the power source, and why does it use a Chinese socket? And Congress is still getting paid... I'm overthinking this, aren't I? Actually, my first thought was that it was a joke about Chinese people having slanted eyes, but I'm relieved to see Chinese wall sockets really look like that.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:13
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Jurgan posted:I'm not sure I get it- Congress is powered by China? Is it a DEBT thing? What is the power source, and why does it use a Chinese socket? And Congress is still getting paid... I'm overthinking this, aren't I? I think it’s a very confused message if you’re reading multiple layers into it. The simplest reading is “the US government’s power went out because of the wall,” but if you want to infer the Chinese power plug means trade war or whatever then it becomes complicated.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:15
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The news media is so behind the times that democrats are forced to rely on ancient messaging methods to clue them in on how the shutdown was created. AGC
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Jan 14, 2019 21:16
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Jurgan posted:I'm not sure I get it- Congress is powered by China? Is it a DEBT thing? What is the power source, and why does it use a Chinese socket? And Congress is still getting paid... I'm overthinking this, aren't I? You're PBFing. It uses a Chinese socket because it was drawn by a Chinese person who uses Chinese sockets and didn't think to google "USA wall sockets" before drawing the cartoon. American cartoons using electricity-plug imagery for things taking place in other countries probably tend toward using American sockets for the same reason.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:16
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Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:21
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, it’s barely taking a stance at all. It’s very nearly “a thing happened,” the only meaningful editorializing in it is that the plug has a frowny face. Your position appears to be "I agree with this, so it must not be deceptive or misleading". It's literally a propaganda outlet. Its motives should not be in doubt! Fine, here he is defending two child policy. Here he is discouraging US involvement in the Senkaku Islands dispute. Lightning Knight posted:The difference is there’s a lot more editorial here. “Vegans and bike riders are assholes” is a strongly debatable premise. “The government shut down because of the wall” is borderline a statement of fact. Distinguish between source, method and message, and frame your interrogation of the message in terms of its source. Understand that propaganda messages are innately bad faith, and that even true or agreeable messages from those sources are in service to deception. Frame these messages, especially the ones you find agreeable or neutral, in terms of the bad faith of their authors. felch me daddy jr. posted:I still hold out hope that you one day will use that same lens to examine media from your own culture and stop pretending that the only insidious propaganda is the one that's funded by foreign states. I was literally one of the first posters here talking about stonetoss's group as a coordinated group. I talk about these sources because they are who this audience is vulnerable to. I don't need to tell people here that Animal Nuz or IBD don't have their interests in mind. D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. That's news to me- ugh, that's really unfortunate.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:25
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D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. Well there goes at least one good laugh every week. Why is it always this thread 
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Jan 14, 2019 21:25
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D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. Nooooooooooooo
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Jan 14, 2019 21:32
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I hate cancer.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:36
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Bad Reporter has cancer while racists and nazis are doing just fine.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:40
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Discendo Vox posted:Fine, here he is defending two child policy. So, I believe what you're saying but I am mostly just utterly baffled by this one. What is it even trying to say? The two-child policy is keeping most people from traveling freely?
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Jan 14, 2019 21:47
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D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. gently caress, I hope his treatment works. gently caress. gently caress cancer. gently caress it.
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Jan 14, 2019 21:59
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Kaza42 posted:So, I believe what you're saying but I am mostly just utterly baffled by this one. What is it even trying to say? The two-child policy is keeping most people from traveling freely? As nearly as I can tell on further googling, this was published in late 2014 during the final period of the one-child policy, and was attempting to massage public opinion toward two-child policy (which ultimately went into effect in late 2015). Beyond that I'm not sure. This is made more complicated because I can't be sure who the original audience was. iirc, earlier Chinese propaganda would recycle domestic-facing material (including cartoons) for international use following a vetting process. This is part of why their cartoons are symbol-heavy and text-light, and why older cartoons have really obvious post-hoc added labels.I know that recycling is still in practice to some degree, but that resources have shifted over time so there is a direct foreign facing content program. I don't know the details.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:05
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Lightning Knight posted:The difference is there’s a lot more editorial here. “Vegans and bike riders are assholes” is a strongly debatable premise. “The government shut down because of the wall” is borderline a statement of fact. And people who ride bicycles and vegans being assholes is also a borderline statement of fact, so I don't see why you're making the distinction.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:13
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D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. Ah, gently caress. Anyone seen a crowdfunding page? Because as I'm sure the guy himself would point out, we live in that hosed up timeline where a person gets brain cancer and you're like "poo poo, I'd better shell out for this stranger whose art I like."
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Jan 14, 2019 22:15
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 : Straya Day Early EditionKudelka:  Shakespeare:  Wilcox:  Pope: 
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Jan 14, 2019 22:16
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Fulchrum posted:And people who ride bicycles and vegans being assholes is also a borderline statement of fact, so I don't see why you're making the distinction. I thought you wanted college educated white suburbanites to vote Democrat, Fulchrum? 
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Jan 14, 2019 22:16
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Lightning Knight posted:I thought you wanted college educated white suburbanites to vote Democrat, Fulchrum? And those people hate vegans, along with everyone else. Whats the issue here? Trapezium Dave posted:
Okay, seriously, whats this about shoes? Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jan 14, 2019 |
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Jan 14, 2019 22:19
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Ah yes that tragic and shameful moment when the Berlin Wall came down, definitely the imagery you want to associate with your enemies. What is it with conservative artists not being able to tell whether the event/character they're referencing is positive or negative? A computer picking at random would have a better track record than this.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:21
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Fulchrum posted:And those people hate vegans, along with everyone else. Whats the issue here? The joke is that they’re also the vegans and fancy bike riders.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:24
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Lightning Knight posted:The joke is that they’re also the vegans and fancy bike riders. Lol no on the former, and on the latter, they are also the people who have to live near the bike riders, and thus despise them more than anyone else possibly could.
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Jan 14, 2019 22:31
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Fulchrum posted:And those people hate vegans, along with everyone else. Whats the issue here? The PM's office was caught Photoshopping Scott Morrison's footwear to make them more clean. When noticed it was also noticed that the photoshopper gave him two left feet.
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Jan 14, 2019 23:16
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D.N. Nation posted:Did we talk about what happened to Bad Reporter? Because this is the first time I saw it. gently caress. I knew he was out with some sort of illness, but didn't know it was brain cancer. Steve Sack was out for a while recently, as he was battling the Big C as well, but seems to have come through it. Fulchrum posted:Okay, seriously, whats this about shoes? https://twitter.com/stilgherrian/status/1082571198083432449 Vib Rib posted:Ah yes that tragic and shameful moment when the Berlin Wall came down, definitely the imagery you want to associate with your enemies. This reminds me, a couple months ago I was running low on self-flagellation and decided to visit Muir's site, and found one of his cartoons depicting Big Daddy Trump as Ming the Merciless. I think whatever broken brain cells that causes someone to march to the conservative drumbeat also causes them to misunderstand the good-guy/bad-guy dichotomy.
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Jan 14, 2019 23:19
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OAquinas posted:The news media is so behind the times that democrats are forced to rely on ancient messaging methods to clue them in on how the shutdown was created. AGC Gotta admit, I love a republican cartoonist trying to admonish the democrats for giving out talking points, when that is the entirety of the republican party's MO.
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Jan 14, 2019 23:39
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 Guardian:  "Ben Jennings on Theresa May and a possible delay to Brexit – The EU is preparing to delay Brexit until at least July after concluding that Theresa May is doomed to fail in getting her deal through parliament" Telegraph:  Matt:  Independent:  Times:  Evening Standard: 
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Jan 14, 2019 23:46
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Kaza42 posted:So, I believe what you're saying but I am mostly just utterly baffled by this one. What is it even trying to say? The two-child policy is keeping most people from traveling freely? This is the closest to "nonsense, this is an election year" I've ever seen
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Jan 14, 2019 23:56
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Vib Rib posted:Ah yes that tragic and shameful moment when the Berlin Wall came down, definitely the imagery you want to associate with your enemies. Reminder that the Republicans once came up with a strategy of reminding voters every chance they could that Obama was the President who finally took down Bin Laden.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:07
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Kaza42 posted:So, I believe what you're saying but I am mostly just utterly baffled by this one. What is it even trying to say? The two-child policy is keeping most people from traveling freely? On one side, you have one single-lane road (one-child policy) that enlarges into a two-lane road (two-child policy). On the other side of the wall, you have a lot of lanes (no policy restricting the number of children you can have but it goes nowhere for some reason). The message is the Supreme Leader is wise and benevolent.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:16
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sheep-dodger posted:Gotta admit, I love a republican cartoonist trying to admonish the democrats for giving out talking points, when that is the entirety of the republican party's MO.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:22
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Jerusalem posted:Reminder that the Republicans once came up with a strategy of reminding voters every chance they could that Obama was the President who finally took down Bin Laden. What?
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Jan 15, 2019 00:45
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D.N. Nation posted:Hey, Ramirez, if you can't say why the wall is a good idea ... Well DUUUUH that's because it IS common sense.
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Jan 15, 2019 00:54
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Lightning Knight posted:Like Putin is bad but if Putin says the sky is blue, what the gently caress do I do, say nu uh it’s red! Yes, because if you agree the sky is blue then Putin is controlling your mind and it's only a matter of time before you begin to believe utterly insane and laughable things like "endless war is bad", "overthrowing South American democracies is wrong and harmful even to US national security", "the surveillance state and carceral state shouldn't exist", and "America's lip service to human rights abroad is a lie", truly deranged stuff. If a Russian tells you the sky is blue, you say "No sir I am an American and if my country says the sky is red white and blue with stripes and stars then I'll defend my American sky to the death!"
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Jan 15, 2019 00:57
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