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isndl posted:Sometimes it's someone else's problems. I'd much rather overprovision a computer that I'm handing off to parents/spouse/family etc. than get a complaint about things running slowly followed by working tech support into my schedule for a preventable problem. Come on now, have you actually had that experience or are you spergin away. It's $38 bux for 240GB right now man.
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Jan 22, 2019 19:50
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isndl posted:Sometimes it's someone else's problems. I'd much rather overprovision a computer that I'm handing off to parents/spouse/family etc. than get a complaint about things running slowly followed by working tech support into my schedule for a preventable problem. If their operating system supports TRIM, which it should because 2019, manual overprovisioning is completely pointless. The drive will never slow down under any load a consumer will generate. Unless maybe their computer gets hacked by someone who wants to run an enterprise DBMS on botnet computers, for Reasons??? All SSDs have a built in overprovision that can never be turned off (*). It should be more than enough as long as TRIM is on. It's only when there is no TRIM that you might want to consider doing extra overprovisioning. * note: Samsung Magician is not a user interface for what I'm talking about, Magician just partitions the drive short of advertised capacity so that some of the advertised capacity will never be written to by the OS. What I'm talking about is internal capacity above the advertised capacity.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:10
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redeyes posted:Come on now, have you actually had that experience or are you spergin away. It's $38 bux for 240GB right now man. Lately I've been fortunate enough to be able to tell them to simply buy a new laptop so it hasn't been an issue, though there was one case of a desktop failure that I was close to having to resuscitate. Swapping the dead drive to a SSD would have been part of the fix. The price of SSDs is completely irrelevant here though, and if anything buying cheap small drives makes any issues that occur from maxing out capacity more readily apparent. BobHoward posted:If their operating system supports TRIM, which it should because 2019, manual overprovisioning is completely pointless. The drive will never slow down under any load a consumer will generate. Unless maybe their computer gets hacked by someone who wants to run an enterprise DBMS on botnet computers, for Reasons??? You're right, and I mentioned TRIM support as being important in an earlier post. And there are instances even in 2019 where you might not have TRIM, like a couple weeks ago when I was discussing with someone on a 98 box they were building for retro gaming. Overprovisioning shouldn't be necessary but it's good to know that it exists in case it is.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:25
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isndl posted:The price of SSDs is completely irrelevant here though, and if anything buying cheap small drives makes any issues that occur from maxing out capacity more readily apparent. isndl posted:You're right, and I mentioned TRIM support as being important in an earlier post. And there are instances even in 2019 where you might not have TRIM, like a couple weeks ago when I was discussing with someone on a 98 box they were building for retro gaming. Overprovisioning shouldn't be necessary but it's good to know that it exists in case it is.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:50
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isndl posted:Sometimes it's someone else's problems. I'd much rather overprovision a computer that I'm handing off to parents/spouse/family etc. than get a ... preventable problem. For a non-technical person if I was setting up a PC for them I'd probably drop a couple GB off the end for safety. I did run into cases back when I was a computer janitor where people unknowingly maxed out their HD. Definitely not the 10% that was the standard 6 years ago and magician for some reason still uses. And if I found their off-the-shelf laptop came with a SSD and it wasn't overprovisioned, I wouldn't bother moving partitions to free some. isndl posted:you might not have TRIM, like a couple weeks ago when I was discussing with someone on a 98 box they were building for retro gaming isndl posted:Overprovisioning shouldn't be necessary but it's good to know that it exists in case it is.
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Jan 22, 2019 20:58
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Does the thread think PC builders are going to realise that SSDs are dirt cheap now? The Pixelbook is a $200 upgrade to go from 128 to 256GB. I assume Apple are taking the piss to an even greater extent.
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Jan 22, 2019 21:46
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Thanks Ants posted:Does the thread think PC builders are going to realise that SSDs are dirt cheap now? The Pixelbook is a $200 upgrade to go from 128 to 256GB. I assume Apple are taking the piss to an even greater extent. That market always lags and there has always been a ridiculous premium on HDD upgrades from PC builders. Thankfully, it's really easy to clone drives now so just get the cheapest option and install your own.
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Jan 22, 2019 22:24
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Thanks Ants posted:Does the thread think PC builders are going to realise that SSDs are dirt cheap now? The Pixelbook is a $200 upgrade to go from 128 to 256GB. I assume Apple are taking the piss to an even greater extent. Why would they? The price difference for the MacBook Pros and Airs is the same $200 for 128GB to 256GB. That's a ton of profit margin, and I'm assuming, based on what I know from Apple, that they've removed the ability to independently upgrade the RAM and SSD, so you're up a creek if you need anything more than the most feeble SSD options. Amazingly enough, iPhone pricing is comparatively reasonable. $50 to got from 64GB to 128GB in the XR and another $100 to jump from 128GB to 256GB.
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Jan 22, 2019 22:29
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Thanks Ants posted:Does the thread think PC builders are going to realise that SSDs are dirt cheap now? The Pixelbook is a $200 upgrade to go from 128 to 256GB. I assume Apple are taking the piss to an even greater extent. I don't think Joe Average who buys his computer from Best Buy will figure it out, no. But I also don't expect him to be using an OS old enough to not support TRIM, so it's a wash in terms of overprovisioning. The only reason to be using a non-TRIM enabled OS is because you're either doing something fairly intentionally specific, or you're that poor that you're still running hardware from 2010. If the first case, you should already know what you're doing, and if the second, you probably don't have a SSD to worry about, anyhow. In terms of just buying the base drive and upgrading yourself, more people are figuring that one out as time goes on, but it's still a small minority, sadly. Or maybe not so sadly, since they're effectively subsidizing everything for us. 
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Jan 22, 2019 22:32
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Looks like Samsung's shook: https://www.techpowerup.com/251750/samsung-launches-the-970-evo-plus-nvme-ssd-family
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Jan 22, 2019 23:09
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I've got an 850 EVO that used to be connected to a 2012 MBP, but the laptop's internal SATA cable seems to be borked. Since I'm probably going to be upgrading at some point in the future anyway (this poor baby has had a long and exhausting life), I've decided to keep the SSD external. What's a good enclosure? It can have a SATA or USB output, either works (I have an adapter).
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Jan 23, 2019 01:17
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Intel 660p 2 TB for $230 (~$250 after tax) after newsletter promo code. Would be good for bulk storage in an ultrabook with no 2.5" bays.Pollyanna posted:I've got an 850 EVO that used to be connected to a 2012 MBP, but the laptop's internal SATA cable seems to be borked. Since I'm probably going to be upgrading at some point in the future anyway (this poor baby has had a long and exhausting life), I've decided to keep the SSD external. What's a good enclosure? It can have a SATA or USB output, either works (I have an adapter). Basically any USB enclosure with UASP will work, and you don't need to spend more than $10 for a 2.5" enclosure, although you can find them of variable quality. Personally I think this is the best option, because it meets all of the above criteria, is of good quality, and most importantly it's transparent so you can see exactly what drive is inside (if you happen to have multiple drives to manage and have more than one of these things,) and of course it's only $7 so it's dirt cheap, even cheaper than some lesser enclosures. The only alternative to the Orico enclosure above that I'd even consider recommending/using myself was this one with a built-in USB hub, but that doesn't appear to be available anymore and I'm not even sure it has UASP, so go with the Orico all the way. That 850 Evo probably has plenty of life left in it, by the way, so I wouldn't hesitate to use that as an OS drive even, over some brand new options (e.g. a lower-end DRAMless drive.) Atomizer fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 01:39
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If maximum speed is a concern, be on the lookout for USB 3.1 Gen 2 (USB 3.1 Gen 1 is USB 3.0 renamed for marketing reasons). But a 3.0/3.1 Gen 1 enclosure will be plenty fast for most uses. There are also enclosures with USB-C and 3.1 Gen 2. Also, like the person before me said, UASP is a must.
Lambert fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 01:43
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Yeah even USB3 has a big bottleneck to maximum SATA SSD performance with MSC over UASP, but you're probably right that getting a USB3.1g2 10 Gb/s enclosure would potentially allow for the maximum possible performance of a SATA SSD over USB.
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Jan 23, 2019 01:46
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I have a couple Oricos with SSD’s and they have worked great
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Jan 23, 2019 01:47
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Buy whatever's cheap as long as it has UASP. Personally I'd choose more based on whether you like toolfree vs screws (toolfree is nice for quick swap but less rugged) vs a dock. I've got a rosewill enclosure and an orico docking-type thing that sits on my desk where I plug in backup drives. Both work fine. Atomizer posted:Intel 660p 2 TB for $230 (~$250 after tax) after newsletter promo code. Would be good for bulk storage in an ultrabook with no 2.5" bays. drat, I'm tempted. I've also got a 10% newegg discount since they just started collecting tax in NY. Klyith fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Jan 23, 2019 |
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Jan 23, 2019 01:54
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Klyith posted:Buy whatever's cheap as long as it has UASP. Personally I'd choose more based on whether you like toolfree vs screws (toolfree is nice for quick swap but less rugged) vs a dock. Oh yeah, toolless is another important criterion. At least for my uses, I've never had a fastened (screwed-together) enclosure and though to myself, "it sure is great that I have to hunt down a tiny screwdriver just so I can open this thing!"  The Orico I linked is indeed toolless, with a properly-functioning slide-open lid (I've had enclosures that manage to gently caress up the lid-opening process....  )If you have a use for the 660p, go for it, it's currently the lowest price I've ever seen it (it was $250 on BF/CM.) I, for example, have the OP-LP2 laptop that's got (in addition to a 2.5" bay) 2x NVMe slots  (one also being a combo with SATA) so this is the perfect option to maximize game capacity. Not actually necessary, but that's besides the point....  To be fair, we still expect SSD prices to continue to drop throughout the year, so if you don't need this now, by all means wait, but as it stands this is currently the best deal on high-capacity NVMe storage yet.
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Jan 23, 2019 02:12
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Sweet, thanks! I like the looks of that one, and although I only have the one drive I agree that it's probably best for it to be transparent so I know which one it is. I'll get a fancier one if I ever get the extra $.
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Jan 23, 2019 03:30
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Looks like Samsung's shook: https://www.techpowerup.com/251750/samsung-launches-the-970-evo-plus-nvme-ssd-family So they're using MLC as advertising for Multi Level Cells. It's a '3-Bit MLC' drive, so really it's just TLC.
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Jan 23, 2019 17:07
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SlayVus posted:So they're using MLC as advertising for Multi Level Cells. It's a '3-Bit MLC' drive, so really it's just TLC. TBH, "3-bit MLC" and "4-bit MLC" are a more logical system of descriptive terms than TLC/QLC. "Triple" and "Quad" combined with "Level Cell" implies three and four levels, but actually those would be eight and sixteen levels respectively. Quad is especially bad because hey guess what 2-bit MLC needs 4 levels.
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Jan 23, 2019 19:48
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Pollyanna posted:I've got an 850 EVO that used to be connected to a 2012 MBP, but the laptop's internal SATA cable seems to be borked. Since I'm probably going to be upgrading at some point in the future anyway (this poor baby has had a long and exhausting life), I've decided to keep the SSD external. What's a good enclosure? It can have a SATA or USB output, either works (I have an adapter). The replacement cables are like 10-15 bux on amazon if you care. Only takes a couple mins to swap out (the power light is connected to the HD cable)
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Jan 23, 2019 20:11
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MLC for 2, TLC, and QLC are what everyone else uses so don't be a jerk and just stick with it
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Jan 23, 2019 21:00
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So, what happens when we get to 5 bit deep cells? Those would be Quint Level Cells, which shortens to QLC too. 
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Jan 23, 2019 21:19
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Geemer posted:So, what happens when we get to 5 bit deep cells? Those would be Quint Level Cells, which shortens to QLC too. Switch to Roman numbers. VLC drives, baby!
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Jan 23, 2019 21:48
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TITTIEKISSER69 posted:Switch to Roman numbers. VLC drives, baby! What is a media player doing in my flash?
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Jan 23, 2019 23:03
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TITTIEKISSER69 fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 00:21
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DrDork posted:What is a media player doing in my flash? Interestingly some companies are making nvme storage controllers with video encode functions built into the controller because the controllers are full on SoCs with ARM cores and can have dedicated onchip offload hardware added without too much hassle. It’ll be interesting to see if they get any traction with hyperscale/enterprise but I doubt this is something that will ever make it to consumers. Still it would make your plex server totally badass.
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Jan 24, 2019 00:30
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priznat posted:Interestingly some companies are making nvme storage controllers with video encode functions built into the controller because the controllers are full on SoCs with ARM cores and can have dedicated onchip offload hardware added without too much hassle. It’ll be interesting to see if they get any traction with hyperscale/enterprise but I doubt this is something that will ever make it to consumers. That is....fascinating. Especially since they support FFmpeg and related extensions, that could be a huge win for anyone doing a bunch of simultaneous streams. No pricing, but I suppose it's probably in the "if you have to ask..." range.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:12
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DrDork posted:That is....fascinating. Especially since they support FFmpeg and related extensions, that could be a huge win for anyone doing a bunch of simultaneous streams. No pricing, but I suppose it's probably in the "if you have to ask..." range. Yeah I know several dudes there and they’re more in the work with Tier 1 customers stage rather than having it available for sale generally. It’s a neat product though. priznat fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 24, 2019 |
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Jan 24, 2019 01:17
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Am I the only one that thinks: me, just let a hard drive do the job of fast, reliable storage well. Let a router do the job of routing packets quickly, reliably and well. Etc, etc. I get that there would be a speed increase in letting the drive itself doing any transcoding but what about when other codecs are released further down the road and then the possibility of upgrading firmware on your drive becoming a regular NOTHER thing to update. Anyone else prefer to let a device do what it's traditional role is. Am I being a Luddite?
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Jan 24, 2019 01:19
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It's like we're back in the era of putting SSL acceleration cards in Solaris boxes
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Jan 24, 2019 01:19
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It’s definitely a niche use case, but one that would be scaled out quite a bit potentially. With things like pcie/100GbE fabrics and p2pdma the compute/storage can be pretty flexible how it’s configured. This offload could mean that the storage to 100GbE is completely hands off from the CPU (with a dma capable switch) with the CPU just doing basic management tasks for the most part.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:31
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apropos man posted:Am I the only one that thinks: me, just let a hard drive do the job of fast, reliable storage well. Let a router do the job of routing packets quickly, reliably and well. To be fair, new mainline MPEG codecs don't really come out all that often, and a device like that which lets you slide in custom FFmpeg filters means you can do a lot of monkeying with it if you care to. If you're the type of person who could benefit from having a drive do x264 work, it means you're probably interested in massively wide scalability, at which point you're probably a Real Business and can have someone update them as needed as just another tick in their regular computer janitorial bucket. One server doing 80x 1080p streams sure beats needing multiple servers to get the CPU horsepower needed to do that. The other fun bit (were it cheap enough) would be throwing that into an otherwise terribly underpowered NAS (I'm looking at you, low-end QNAP/Synologies) to let it actually do live transcoding that their lovely low-end Marvell chip would choke to death on.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:34
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Yeah. I guess it's just another tool for a certain desired use case. The idea of rejuvenating an old, power-sipping Baytrail board into a capable Plex beast with only the addition of a drive has a certain desirability. Also, if I were building an 8x NVMe zfs array for quick mass-storage I'd probably avoid drives with bells & whistles on them and go for tradition role sticks. It's giving consumers more choice.
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Jan 24, 2019 01:51
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If this catches on at all (no guarantees) I could see a firmware key unlock type scenario where you buy the default drive and pay a license fee if you need the capability. It’s easier this way than multiple silicon devices.
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Jan 24, 2019 02:02
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priznat posted:If this catches on at all (no guarantees) I could see a firmware key unlock type scenario where you buy the default drive and pay a license fee if you need the capability. It’s easier this way than multiple silicon devices. Can't wait for always-online SSDs that lock you out of your data if you've been offline for more than 48 hours.
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Jan 24, 2019 02:26
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Geemer posted:Can't wait for always-online SSDs that lock you out of your data if you've been offline for more than 48 hours. You jest but the wet dream of every honest capitalist is to transit from a one-time sale model to a perpetual rent seeking utopia
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Jan 24, 2019 02:34
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apropos man posted:Am I the only one that thinks: me, just let a hard drive do the job of fast, reliable storage well. Let a router do the job of routing packets quickly, reliably and well. An ssd controller is a fairly beefy mobile processor whose entire job is to fool the host os into thinking that the flash die is a hard drive The new hotness in storage tech is to do kernel bypass / replace the shitbox software stack with something flash/nvme native. It's closer to a network stack than you think
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Jan 24, 2019 02:40
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Malcolm XML posted:An ssd controller is a fairly beefy mobile processor whose entire job is to fool the host os into thinking that the flash die is a hard drive NVMeoF is pretty badass. It would be a pretty sweet NAS type application. Except everything (OS etc) can be hosted remotely.
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Jan 24, 2019 02:44
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Stupid question time! So currently I have two hard drives on my computer: the first is a Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500G, which was the one I got when it was built, which has the operating system, games, files, etc. The second drive is WDC WD2003FZEX-00Z4S traditional hard drive with 2TB of space. This one I just use primarily for storage (old/archived files and photos, larger things like game installers and videos, etc.). Right now, the Samsung SSD is starting to get full (mostly due to huge video game installs are), and I was thinking about getting another SSD (I saw a Samsung 1TB for relatively cheap on Amazon) to make more room for installing games separate from the SSD with operating system and my other miscellaneous files. My questions are 1.) Would it be possible to add a third drive (and what should specs should I post to detail whether or not there's capacity for it), and 2.) If not, would I be better off just installing things to the 2TB drive. My thinking was 'no' on the second one, since it would be more efficient to just have anything load from an SSD, but I was told that in some cases, an SSD is only utilized for getting the OS to boot and load more efficently.
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Jan 24, 2019 05:29
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