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Grouchio posted:I'm unsure whether I should play a dwarf empire as a megacorp or as a democratic technocracy. Why not create a dwarf empire for each?
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Jan 27, 2019 03:51
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Sector suggestion: Have a button on your empire page for like "increase centralization" or "refactor sectors". It dumps existing sector resources into a temporary pool, removes all sectors, and places them again starting with your empire capital, then divvies out the sector resources to the newly created sectors. Suggested tie-in: have transcendent learning increase max level cap (was 10 last I knew, did that get updated in 2.2?), give 10-25% leader gain, and expand sector reach by 1 hyper-lane jump. Also maybe a late game green tech adding another +1 range. Alternatively, add in some sort of system to spend influence to increase output in a sector. Maybe based on station output (base) and planet sizes. Also creates the option to have specialized development, so you could crank up the production (maybe simple/complex divide?) aimed at a specific thing (or another way to get naval cap). This might require going back to pre-generated sectors instead of fluid ones, but with being able to improve them empty space might be worth something (imaging increased ship combat bonuses in the sector or naval stations, etc). edit: Basically an issue is that there isn't really terrain, this gives the player a way to mold his space into pseudo-terrain. Also by tying this into influence, it prevents a wide player from turning his empire into really rugged territory while a tall player with spare influence probably can. Though it does make him a target!
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Jan 27, 2019 04:26
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Vengarr posted:It needs to be changed to have the "Brand Loyalty" civic instead of "Ruthless Corporation". Brand Loyalty gives +15% Unity, and the tooltip is also a Geico reference. I'll check it out. I play them a bit ruthless, to the point that I uplift/enlighten species and then force them to buy my insurance, which is why I did Ruthless Corporation. But I'm down with Brand Loyalty instead, especially if it's a GEICO joke (which I must've missed)
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Jan 27, 2019 04:50
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Is there a reason for the decision that stops robot production to exist when you could just disable the factory instead and save yourself the upkeep?
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Jan 27, 2019 04:51
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Jabarto posted:Is there a reason for the decision that stops robot production to exist when you could just disable the factory instead and save yourself the upkeep? Things like this really make it seem like you were supposed to be able to call a planetary population "Done" and then redirect its pop growth into a migration pool, or something like that.
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Jan 27, 2019 05:12
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axeil posted:I'm playing as GEICO from the goon species pack and really enjoying it. I make obscene amounts of money. My navy is weak but who cares when you can just bribe everyone into liking you? My research rate is also nuts. Mid game and everything takes only 8 months instead of the 24-30 I'm used to. It's leaving everyone in the dust tech wise. I downloaded the Goon pack a while ago, but for a while really noticed the difference - Recently though I figured out that if I select one of the races to play with, then I can save it and it 'fixes' as a race I can toggle on as a forced spawn race - I did it with the ones that looked interesting and now the galaxy is populated with a lot more colourful species each game.
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Jan 27, 2019 05:37
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Whats the best galaxy generation settings for performance? It seems like even on Medium galaxy size (with the rest default values) is enough to make the game chug....odd considering I have an i7 8700. Maybe just the usual Paradox jank? And why can't I change hive centers into planetary administrations when I take over hive mind planets? I genetically modified hivemind citizens to be not-hivemind, but the buildings won't change.
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Jan 27, 2019 08:40
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ZypherIM posted:One thing I'd suggest considering is to start with private prospectors (+10 cap, private colony ships) instead of gospel of the masses. Later on you can reform out of private prospectors and grab gospel of the masses (either when you want to, or after you unlock your 3rd civic). This lets you colonize with energy at the start (500 energy instead of 200 food/alloy/goods) which is *huge*, and gospel of the masses doesn't really start to make a difference until more mid-game. Plenty of ways to be more optimal but then it doesn't fit the gimmick!
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Jan 27, 2019 10:48
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I do not understand this piracy suppression thing. Well, I thought I did but then look at this image: 1. How can Max piracy be bigger than Current piracy? OK, I might have (not sure) switched some trade-routes to go down a different path so that the trade value of this route (and also max piracy) dropped... but shouldnt the current piracy go down as well? 2. By my count I have 89 trade protection and current piracy is 72. Why are the pirates still stealing my poo poo? 3. Trade route value is 270. Piracy at max 67. The tooltip says somewhere that my trade protection guarantees that at least 89 of my trade always gets through thanks to my trade protection. Well.. If I always get 89 and the pirates get a maximum 67, what happens to the 270-89-67=114 trade value? Please explain, I am too dumb for this poo poo. How does it all work?
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Jan 27, 2019 13:46
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You're only losing 3 trade value. You have 69 protection (nice) compared to 72 current piracy so 72-69=3 which is shown on the tool tip. Fleets in the system can reduce the level of piracy so what you need to do it bring enough ships in to reduce the piracy below the current roof which is also below the protection cap so you'll have no problems with piracy. It doesn't automatically reduce because then you can keep switching the trade routes around before the piracy over caps and you start to lose things. Rumda fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 14:19
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SirTagz posted:I do not understand this piracy suppression thing. Well, I thought I did but then look at this image: What you are missing is that there are two different mechanics to deal with piracy, 'trade protection' from starbases and 'piracy suppression' from ships. The former will not actually stop piracy from growing in a system, but protects a given trade value from the effects of piracy, while the latter actively reduces piracy in that system if suppression is higher than trade value. In other words, to get the maximum trade value safely through a system and prevent pirate fleets from spawning, you need to either patrol with enough ships to prevent the 'current piracy' value from growing above trade protection*, or to bring your total trade protection from bases above the maximum piracy value. *if the route is only 1 system long piracy won't ever grow above 0 and you don't need any trade protection, but if your fleet patrols multiple systems they will accumulate some non-zero piracy in-between visits so you still need some of it. In your example, your fleet only has a suppression value of 20, which is below the trade value of 269.91, so piracy will grow unchecked to its maximum. Because that maximum is 72 and your bases only protect against 69, you lose 3 trade value from the route. Your two options are increasing your fleet until its suppression value is at least 270, or to get another 5 points of trade protection from somewhere. Mygna fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 14:36
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Your trade protection fleet's piracy suppression doesn't have to be larger than the trade value to suppress piracy, just larger than the max piracy value of the system it's in (which is 1/4 of the trade value passing through that system).
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Jan 27, 2019 15:10
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Just finished my first game - I decided to follow the tutorial and accept my mistakes as I went along just to see where it took me. The early game was great; going off into space and following the a narrative that builds itself was very compelling. Highlights included an aggressive neighbor who I eventually had to repel and crush after I lost a few systems. Not really understanding the war system early on held me back a little. Around the same time I was following 'The Worm' storyline - turns out that convincing your society to embrace the desires of an extra dimensional horror is actually really good and cool. Coupling that with finding the equivalent of Trantor turned my faction into an economic juggernaut, so I decided to have a poke at a fallen empire. They very nearly smashed me until they ran all their fleets into a fortress system and lost them at great cost to me. Fortunately that was a huge tech boon, and they never recovered so I took all their systems. Then some eyeball tyranids tried to invade the galaxy at the same time as another fallen empire decided they wanted the galaxy for themselves. The eyeballs were pretty quickly dispatched due some fortunatly positioned wormholes that allowed rapid redeployment. With 10 years left I decided to mess with the awakened empire, who had nearly 500k combined fleet power. They did a really good attack (I was genuinely impressed with the AI here), hitting me on multiple fronts but I got them in the end, mainly cos I specialised my fleet build (I had about 300k to face them with). The game ended just after I took their home system. All in all, the big stuff at the end was cool, the middle dragged a bit and early expansion and exploration was very cool fun.
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Jan 27, 2019 16:57
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AI is quite a bit better at dealing with raiding in the beta.
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Jan 27, 2019 17:48
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BrandorKP posted:AI is quite a bit better at dealing with raiding in the beta. Yeah it's significantly better at everything having to do with moving fleets. It won't send crap to die piecemeal as often nor will it sit paralyzed at a starbase while you take everything.
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Jan 27, 2019 18:17
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They stop growth on planets you are raiding now. They will also surrender early if it's tactical advantageous. One can't just animosity causus belli now, they surrender at like 60 to 70 % if you are stealing pops. Gotta have some big claims to keep the war going. They also have bigger fleets earlier.
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Jan 27, 2019 18:55
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buglord posted:Whats the best galaxy generation settings for performance? It seems like even on Medium galaxy size (with the rest default values) is enough to make the game chug....odd considering I have an i7 8700. Maybe just the usual Paradox jank? Make sure you're running the beta patch. Even that still has poor performance, Large galaxies are unplayable after midgame. I wouldn't go higher than Medium. Small is best if you actually want to see the endgame.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:09
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Really glad to see the list of stuff they're looking at in the developer diary! The system is already way better than tiles, but once they've ironed out some of the initial issues it'll be even better. Asking again in case anyone has a ship design they like- I'm going to have to deal with a spiritualist fallen empire pretty soon, and the other AI fleets are all so tiny that they're barely worth considering, so I'm basically on my own. Any advice on how to build out a battleship to get the most bang for my buck against their setup?
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Jan 27, 2019 20:20
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Really glad to see the list of stuff they're looking at in the developer diary! The system is already way better than tiles, but once they've ironed out some of the initial issues it'll be even better. If you have sensors into their territory, you can see directly how their ships are set up. Click on their fleet, there will be Inspect buttons next to the individual ships. Then just build to counter them.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:35
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Mygna posted:In other words, to get the maximum trade value safely through a system and prevent pirate fleets from spawning, you need to either patrol with enough ships to prevent the 'current piracy' value from growing above trade protection*, or to bring your total trade protection from bases above the maximum piracy value. ...which has to be checked from a separate map mode on a regular basis, since trade values will grow as you get more systems and buildings; the game will not let you know any other way than (a) the trade map, which sucks for most other game functions and (b) the pirates spawning, at which point your economy is going to take a hit for a while. ...also, it sucks that ship patrolling and base protection are completely separate and don't stack.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:36
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ulmont posted:...which has to be checked from a separate map mode on a regular basis, since trade values will grow as you get more systems and buildings; the game will not let you know any other way than (a) the trade map, which sucks for most other game functions and (b) the pirates spawning, at which point your economy is going to take a hit for a while. They do completely different things, why would they stack? Max piracy is 1/4 of the trade value going through the system. Ship patrolling (piracy suppression) reduces piracy that has built up. Base protection (and protection from starbases) create a buffer zone where piracy has no effect. You also have control of where your trade routes path through so you shouldn't be surprised where piracy can show up. Your trade value shouldn't unexpectedly shift either, so you only really need to recheck your lanes when you build a big trade thing. Also piracy doesn't accrue in systems with upgraded starbases. Build a big trade collection range base and route it along anchorage bases to your homeworld and you won't get any piracy. Once you get gateways you can completely remove piracy.
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Jan 27, 2019 20:58
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Vengarr posted:Make sure you're running the beta patch. Even that still has poor performance, Large galaxies are unplayable after midgame. I wouldn't go higher than Medium. Small is best if you actually want to see the endgame.  I was dreaming months ago and I remember seeing this exact screencap. What the gently caress is going on?? 
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Jan 27, 2019 21:02
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Grouchio posted:
Stop watching Joe Rogan.
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Jan 27, 2019 21:34
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Mygna posted:What you are missing is that there are two different mechanics to deal with piracy, 'trade protection' from starbases and 'piracy suppression' from ships. The former will not actually stop piracy from growing in a system, but protects a given trade value from the effects of piracy, while the latter actively reduces piracy in that system if suppression is higher than trade value. In other words, to get the maximum trade value safely through a system and prevent pirate fleets from spawning, you need to either patrol with enough ships to prevent the 'current piracy' value from growing above trade protection*, or to bring your total trade protection from bases above the maximum piracy value. Zurai posted:Your trade protection fleet's piracy suppression doesn't have to be larger than the trade value to suppress piracy, just larger than the max piracy value of the system it's in (which is 1/4 of the trade value passing through that system). Thanks, that explains it. Does this mean that 3/4 of the trade will always get through the system as the piracy can only climb to 1/4? And when does the actual pirate fleet spawn? I had it happen once - is it completely random after red skull? I had no idea there were two parallel protection mechanisms for piracy. How did you figure it out? From some dev diary or did you just stare at the tooltip till you figured out the formula? And can someone also say WHY we have two different systems instead of one? The tool-tip isn't helpful at all with explaining the underlying system.. even now that I know how it works. SirTagz fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 21:52
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Grouchio posted:
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Jan 27, 2019 22:11
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ZypherIM posted:They do completely different things, why would they stack? One stops piracy by making a first number go down and the other stops piracy by making a second number go up. These are only "completely different things" because the devs said so. From my perspective, they do exactly the same thing "stop piracy", but in a convoluted way that means I have to go all-in on one or the other approach. ZypherIM posted:You also have control of where your trade routes path through so you shouldn't be surprised where piracy can show up. I know where piracy can show up. This is not helpful in telling me when piracy might show up. ZypherIM posted:Your trade value shouldn't unexpectedly shift either, so you only really need to recheck your lanes when you build a big trade thing. This part is just wrong. Commercial Zones hold 5 clerks, so your trade value will naturally tick upwards after you build a few in your planets. ZypherIM posted:Also piracy doesn't accrue in systems with upgraded starbases. Build a big trade collection range base and route it along anchorage bases to your homeworld and you won't get any piracy. This is what I've been doing. As I noted, you can't tell when the trade value of a route just ticked over the current amount of starbase protection without constantly rechecking the trade map view, which is annoying. And this plan tends to consistently require 3 more starbases than I can support even with the ascension perk, which is doubly annoying. ZypherIM posted:Once you get gateways you can completely remove piracy. This part is 100% accurate.
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Jan 27, 2019 22:28
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ulmont posted:One stops piracy by making a first number go down and the other stops piracy by making a second number go up. These are only "completely different things" because the devs said so. From my perspective, they do exactly the same thing "stop piracy", but in a convoluted way that means I have to go all-in on one or the other approach. Err, overly reductive analysis on systems is a lovely way to make your point dude (why are shields and armor and hull all different things?). Trade protection gives you the ability to not have to patrol minor routes (ie those feeding into a major route), as well as a margin of safety so you don't constantly have pirates pop up. You then can patrol your major routes with small corvette force. Piracy can show up in any system you're routing your trade through that doesn't have an upgraded starbase. This is something entirely in your control. You can click on the trade button, which shows a little red icon in a system that can be at risk for piracy. Commercial zones hold 5 clerks, which is 10 trade value, an entirely known value. When you build your commercial zone, you can also check your trade route setup to see if it can handle 10 more trade (plus bonuses) or not. It isn't a random shift, and so it shouldn't be taking you by surprise. You don't *have* to route along upgraded starbases, and once your empire grows to a certain size that is no longer feasible. However with smart placement of collection hubs you should be able to whittle down the places you need to run a patrol to a fairly small area, letting you keep piracy under control. Requesting an alert when piracy goes over trade protection is a perfectly valid request (and would be nice, sort of like rebel warnings in eu4), but most of your complaint seems to be "I don't want to figure out this system, pls fix".
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Jan 27, 2019 22:50
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ZypherIM posted:They do completely different things, why would they stack? There is just no way casual players will figure this system out on their own. I have been playing strategy games for 25 years and I also went in with an assumption that there is one formula for one mechanic, not two overlapping ones. Sure I may be dumb but the game is being sold to way less hardcore players than me and it should be possible to figure the system out without going to forums or spending half an hour with a spreadsheet.
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Jan 27, 2019 22:53
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Pirates as they stand are one of the many useless fiddly parts of Stellaris. I wish they would revamp the whole piracy system because 99% of my experiences with pirates are either "largely invisible drain on trade" or "spawn a small and easily defeated pirate fleet that blows up a few mining stations until my ships show up." Neither of these are fun or challenging to deal with because there isn't any real choices to be made or threat to deal with. Personally, I would fold pirates into Crime (it's odd that there are THREE completely separate in game systems dealing with lawlessness). Make Crime a sector wide problem and if crime rises too high then trade is disrupted, fleets inside the sector begin to defect, and finally planets and stations begin to rebel. My personal fiddly pet peeve is construction ships. They take up valuable real estate on the right hand menu and could easily be abstracted away while still providing a practical limit on the number of simultaneous things that can be built at once. How many times has the location of a construction ship on the map added to the game? Aside from the very early part of the game the only times I care about construction ships is if something blows up and I have to wait 2 years for a construction ship to slowly jump down and fix the problem. Honestly, by mid game I usually delete them because it only takes 60 days or so to build one and it's normally cheaper and quicker to produce them on demand then having them sit around being useless. GamingHyena fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 22:55
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The pirate spawns ARE the alert system that you're losing too much income to piracy. They arn't meant to be a serious threat; they're an economic cost. The choices to be made are in setting up your starbases and if necessary fleets so you arn't losing income. Also, concentrating trade-earning planets near your capital rather than the periphery. Once you get Starholds you can usually deal with most piracy simply by placing your trade starbases as close to your core as practical. 4 trade range goes a long way. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 23:03
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Baronjutter posted:Stop watching Joe Rogan. A shameful set of tabs Splicer fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 27, 2019 |
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Jan 27, 2019 23:22
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ZypherIM posted:Err, overly reductive analysis on systems is a lovely way to make your point dude (why are shields and armor and hull all different things?). You're missing the point. You build shields and armor and hull on the same thing - a ship - and shields and armor and hull all help a ship accomplish its goal. For piracy, there are two completely separate ways to handle piracy which do not interact at all, which seems to be a poor design. ZypherIM posted:Piracy can show up in any system you're routing your trade through that doesn't have an upgraded starbase. This is something entirely in your control. This is not something entirely in my control. No empire can afford to have upgraded starbases in a line across the empire. In my current game it would require over 50 starbases to eliminate piracy that way, which is over double my starbase cap. ZypherIM posted:You can click on the trade button, which shows a little red icon in a system that can be at risk for piracy. Yes, I know. I have been complaining from the beginning that I have to periodically stop what I'm doing, click the trade button, and pan across my empire to figure out if there's an upcoming piracy problem or not. ZypherIM posted:Commercial zones hold 5 clerks, which is 10 trade value, an entirely known value. When you build your commercial zone, you can also check your trade route setup to see if it can handle 10 more trade (plus bonuses) or not. It isn't a random shift, and so it shouldn't be taking you by surprise. How small is your empire that you are willing to recheck trade zones before each new building and colony and after each conquest? ZypherIM posted:Requesting an alert when piracy goes over trade protection is a perfectly valid request (and would be nice, sort of like rebel warnings in eu4), but most of your complaint seems to be "I don't want to figure out this system, pls fix". My complaints are 2: (1) these two piracy reduction systems should play nice together, rather than being completely separate ways of accomplishing the same goal and (2) I shouldn't have to stop what I'm doing and go to the screen that serves no purpose other than to see if I'm going to be pirated or not. I figured out how the system works; I do not find its requirements fun. GamingHyena posted:Personally, I would fold pirates into Crime (it's odd that there are THREE completely separate in game systems dealing with lawlessness). Make Crime a sector wide problem and if crime rises too high then trade is disrupted, fleets inside the sector begin to defect, and finally planets and stations begin to rebel. This would be pretty neat. TheDeadlyShoe posted:The pirate spawns ARE the alert system that you're losing too much income to piracy. They arn't meant to be a serious threat; they're an economic cost. A piracy spawn in the wrong system can drop my monthly energy income by 500. That's a "drop everything" economic cost, not an alert system. And one that I may have to eat for multiple years to get fleets in the area. TheDeadlyShoe posted:Once you get Starholds you can usually deal with most piracy simply by placing your trade starbases as close to your core as practical. 4 trade range goes a long way. Not far enough, and when you build up trade value high enough you end up having to have a truly stupid number of starbases just to defend. In my current game, I have a route that has a trade value of 1877.49. That's a maximum piracy of 469.37, which requires 6 fully upgraded (with hangars) starbases to suppress.
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Jan 27, 2019 23:29
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I mean the actual solution is building a gateway near that system and then surrounding another gateway with a small army of citadels so that trade protection goes through your gateway network. That or stationing a gigantic corvette fleet there.
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Jan 27, 2019 23:55
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ulmont posted:You're missing the point. You build shields and armor and hull on the same thing - a ship - and shields and armor and hull all help a ship accomplish its goal. For piracy, there are two completely separate ways to handle piracy which do not interact at all, which seems to be a poor design. No, you're missing the point that the piracy system does interact with itself, just not in the way you desire. You aren't supposed to be able to handle all piracy through trade protection, and you're being frustrated because you're ignoring the part of the system designed to interact with high trade values. The way you path your starbases *is* in your control, and setting up routes and handling piracy is something you need to take care when you expand (either through development, or conquest). If you choose not to do so, then yea eventually you'll have pirates show up. Note that 1 starbase could supply 36 fleet cap (43 after supremacy), so 2 starbases gives you the supply to build a corvette fleet to supress piracy on that route easily. You could build a nice round fleet size of 50, which has a suppression value of 500, so your route has to increase by 120 value before you need to address it again. Even without supremacy, you could build 72 corvettes with 2 bases for 720 suppression, which will suppress a value of up to 2880 (an increase of 1000 over your current route). Also note that suppression is based on ship size and nothing else, so you can leave off the guns, armor, etc to keep costs per corvette super low. Natural 20 posted:I mean the actual solution is building a gateway near that system and then surrounding another gateway with a small army of citadels so that trade protection goes through your gateway network. Instead of wasting your starbases on trade protection, when you have gateways you build them so your 6-collection range hub in your homeworld collects everything directly. Small size routes that don't rate a gateway should be able to be covered by 1 protection starbase at most.
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Jan 28, 2019 00:22
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ZypherIM posted:Instead of wasting your starbases on trade protection, when you have gateways you build them so your 6-collection range hub in your homeworld collects everything directly. Small size routes that don't rate a gateway should be able to be covered by 1 protection starbase at most. I mean it's not really a trade off, you have to build citadels at certain points and you're almost always going to dump a gateway on those points so that your fleets reinforce there quickly and easily.
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Jan 28, 2019 00:30
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ZypherIM posted:Also note that suppression is based on ship size and nothing else, so you can leave off the guns, armor, etc to keep costs per corvette super low. Of all the ways to represent piracy in a game having a player build 50 unarmored corvettes to patrol a line of systems should tell you that the mechanic is broken. How is this not the definition of useless micromanagement?
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Jan 28, 2019 00:37
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That's more a design hole in that the corvettes arn't required to be armed than any intrinsic problem with the suppression mechanic. The fact that trade can be troublesome requires you to put thought into it and makes it not just free income. It literally shapes your empire, or requires you to invest in ways to deal with it - such as patrol fleets. Those patrol fleets can be recalled to the front lines in case of a sudden threat or if a war threatens you more than losing energy income does.
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Jan 28, 2019 00:46
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Natural 20 posted:I mean it's not really a trade off, you have to build citadels at certain points and you're almost always going to dump a gateway on those points so that your fleets reinforce there quickly and easily. Well yea, if you've got them built already that is fine, but just letting your homeworld reach through the gates and collect itself cuts the issue completely out. I think that is why piracy needs to get another pass at some point, because eventually the solution being "this just removes the system entirely" points to room for huge improvement. There is some interesting room for differing setups in early/mid game currently at least. GamingHyena posted:Of all the ways to represent piracy in a game having a player build 50 unarmored corvettes to patrol a line of systems should tell you that the mechanic is broken. How is this not the definition of useless micromanagement? Theoretically you could arm them, and depending on your suppression you have a certain amount of time you could take that fleet off of patrol before having trouble. I believe it takes 10 years to build up to full piracy value? I was showing how you could setup trade protection and not have to micromanage the system using less resources than the way he was using. With 1000 extra trade value before needing to be looked at, you have a loooong loving time before you need to go manage your setup. The definition of useless micromanagement is having to ship excess pops off of a planet every time they grow instead of just having a decision that turns all colony growth into emigration and costs X energy/month (maybe 4-5).
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Jan 28, 2019 00:48
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Discourage growth basically does that tho?
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Jan 28, 2019 00:49
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Discourage growth basically does that tho? I guess I should sit down and do some in depth testing, but my understanding was that your growth was cut, and then the emigration pressure gets push on the remainder. edit: 5 stability hit is pretty big though (or +25% consumer good usage). Definitely a gently caress-ton more than the 100 energy to not automate it. ZypherIM fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Jan 28, 2019 |
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Jan 28, 2019 00:52
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