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kingdom hearts isn't any different from any other square enix property - it's a story lasagna where you're best off just enjoying one layer of meat and cheese at a time. it only seems more egregious than others because of how many games there are in the core storyline because each one is a squaring of how many layers of lore lasagna there are, unlike say final fantasy where you're maxing out at *checks notes* fabula nova crystallis, jesus christ. final fantasy vii saw the exact same sort of retrocon bloat when it got sequels, and so did final fantasy x. ivalice gets by because it's more of a setting where they mostly discard each iterations contributions rather than have to honour a complicated full-storyline then sandwich in another one underneath it.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:32
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CharlestheHammer posted:Like I don’t get what the weird notion that KH isn’t a incoherent mess, it is embrace it. It’s like Metal Gear Solid where it’s convoluted messy ness is it’s charm. All I'm saying is that it's not a special case in an industry with Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:34
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The differences between Kingdom Hearts and Homestuck can be entirely summarized as one has significantly better presentation than the other. edit: can you find me even one person who doesn't regard the Resident Evil story as convoluted and stupid?
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Jan 28, 2019 22:34
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Roth posted:All I'm saying is that it's not a special case in an industry with Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid. I don’t disagree but people call both those franchises out for that all the time.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:35
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Augus posted:Kingdom Hearts is actually not at all hard to follow if you just play the games and take things in as they happen. the hardest thing about KH was, until PS4 had the collections hit, they had their games spread out over like four systems and none of the 'side games' were actually optional. It's honestly less 'oh god this is SO crazy guys' and more 'what no dude did you not play the game boy advance card game they did explain that'
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Jan 28, 2019 22:37
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Believe me, I love all of those franchises for how dumb and convoluted they are. Same with superhero comics.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:37
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Terrible Opinions posted:The differences between Kingdom Hearts and Homestuck can be entirely summarized as one has significantly better presentation than the other. Well you get stuck on trains/mansions/castles/boats in different games so
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Jan 28, 2019 22:37
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When one of those totally incoherent convoluted twists is “The bad guy committed identify theft”, there is clearly some degree of exaggeration going on here on someone’s part.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:39
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Roth posted:Believe me, I love all of those franchises for how dumb and convoluted they are. Same with superhero comics.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:40
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Augus posted:When one of those totally incoherent convoluted twists is “The bad guy committed identify theft”, there is clearly some degree of exaggeration going on here on someone’s part. That’s my favorite one as he commits identity theft twice. He also really didn’t need to do it the first time. I’m still not sure why he did it
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Jan 28, 2019 22:42
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Roth posted:All I'm saying is that it's not a special case in an industry with Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid. It feels a lot easier to ignore RE's convoluted backstory compared to MGS or KH.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:44
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CharlestheHammer posted:That’s my favorite one as he commits identity theft twice. He also really didn’t need to do it the first time. I’m still not sure why he did it to be fair his character is literally going to destroy the world just to see what'll happen. Like, the entire impetus for his evil science/magic nonsense is literally just 'hmmm interesting theory but I'm afraid to test it you may have to destroy the very world itself...' 'fuckin sick, I'm in'.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:45
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Doctor Spaceman posted:It feels a lot easier to ignore RE's convoluted backstory compared to MGS or KH. RE is more a hoop to get you to some new outbreak setting, while the other two at least care about their story.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:45
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I don’t know very much about video games at all, but the only video game stories that ever seemed really thought out to me were Star Control 2 and Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon. Might be dating myself a bit here.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:52
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Star Control 2 saved all of its complexity for the ways in which Stardock screws over the original creators and the franchise as a whole.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Like I don’t get what the weird notion that KH isn’t a incoherent mess, it is embrace it. It’s like Metal Gear Solid where it’s convoluted messy ness is it’s charm. This is pretty much my position. I've met scores of gamers who'll poo poo all over on Kingdom Hearts' convolutions, silly writing, unnecessary sidequils and clumsy attempts at developing deeper themes, but then aggressively dickride Kojima and die on a hill for Metal Gear Solid's same crimes. At the very least Nomura doesn't come off as an overt creep, which gives him and KHs a leg up over Kojima and MGS. Putting on my basic bitch Feminist hat, I can't help but feel that partly the blame might rest in Kingdom Hearts' popularity with girl gamers. Goes without saying that self proclaimed, self serious #Gamer guys would be pretty adverse to a story centred around pretty anime boys rescuing worlds with the power of their (totally platonic) love for each other.
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Jan 28, 2019 22:56
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Terrible Opinions posted:Star Control 2 saved all of its complexity for the ways in which Stardock screws over the original creators and the franchise as a whole. Star Control 2 was the good one. Star Control 3 was the bad one that hosed over the creators iirc.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:00
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The current owner of the IP is currently suing the creators of the SC2 in an attempt to drive them into bankruptcy. Star Control Origins released in 2018 is directly funding that lawsuit because Stardock the current IP owner is run by the worst sort fo person.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:09
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i think the point I zoned out of the plot was that cutscene in KH2 where DiZ who was recently revealed to be The Real Ansem fires an extremely toy-looking gun at a heart shaped moon or something
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Jan 28, 2019 23:12
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I constantly make comparisons between Kingdom Hearts' lore and Metal Gear Solid lore and the big reason why I like Metal Gear's zany lore (for the most part) is because stylistically it's pretty solid and there are characters that I care about attached to that lore so I care about that world. Can't say the same thing about Kingdom Hearts.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:14
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Jesus Christ. I didn’t even know there was another one. Star Control 2 is a contender for best game ever made. A modernized version would rule if it wasn’t made by copyright trolls.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:14
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CYBEReris posted:i think the point I zoned out of the plot was that cutscene in KH2 where DiZ who was recently revealed to be The Real Ansem fires an extremely toy-looking gun at a heart shaped moon or something You mean kingdom Hearts. Not the real Kingdom Hearts. Also not the Kingdom Hearts from the first game.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:14
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KH has two main entries and a bunch of other ones that even fans of 1 and 2 have never played and they're gonna suffer for it. I just can't listen to some of these games going on without just feeling second-hand cringe for the voice actors.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:23
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I can't believe that a game series that started 16 years ago has more than 2 games
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Jan 28, 2019 23:28
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Ok so MGS has more numbered games than unnumbered canon spinoff titles but you can’t seriously say you don’t also feel bad for the voice actors saying those lines. I like Kingdom Heart’s bullshit plot and Metal Gear’s bullshit plot and it’s for the same reason: it’s fun bullshit. KH’s problem is that it explains absolutely EVERYTHING, not that a lot happens and nothing is explained.
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Jan 28, 2019 23:31
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:Jesus Christ. I didn’t even know there was another one. Star Control 2 is a contender for best game ever made. A modernized version would rule if it wasn’t made by copyright trolls. star control 2 is why i own a 3do worth it btw
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Jan 28, 2019 23:56
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SteelMentor posted:This is pretty much my position. I've met scores of gamers who'll poo poo all over on Kingdom Hearts' convolutions, silly writing, unnecessary sidequils and clumsy attempts at developing deeper themes, but then aggressively dickride Kojima and die on a hill for Metal Gear Solid's same crimes. One series has a convoluted, bullshit plot over many games that makes sense when played in order but is confusing to explain in words, deep friendships between male characters that can easily be read gay, and an auteur director with a famously large personality. And the other is Kingdom Hearts. (I know MGS has characters (all antagonists) that are textually queer but still.)
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Jan 29, 2019 01:09
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Augus posted:Kingdom Hearts is actually not at all hard to follow if you just play the games and take things in as they happen. the only difficultish stuff for me is the xehonort family tree and just like the metaphysics of nobodies? are they shades, are they just people with no souls? why do they talk in circles and explain poo poo in stupid convoluted ways and why are most of them look like mutilated twinks? but i mean stuff makes more sense when you realize hearts=souls. hopeandjoy posted:Ok so MGS has more numbered games than unnumbered canon spinoff titles but you can’t seriously say you don’t also feel bad for the voice actors saying those lines. agreed though i like MGS bullshit because it lots of real information and history and politics mixed with weird magical/tech poo poo. KH is fun too but its more fun in the sit with friends and laugh and have a good time sense. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 29, 2019 |
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Jan 29, 2019 01:11
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SteelMentor posted:This is pretty much my position. I've met scores of gamers who'll poo poo all over on Kingdom Hearts' convolutions, silly writing, unnecessary sidequils and clumsy attempts at developing deeper themes, but then aggressively dickride Kojima and die on a hill for Metal Gear Solid's same crimes. I mean it's exactly this. KH is silly, and yes, Nomura makes this poo poo up as it goes along, but it's a game with a bunch of big, earnest, raw emotions and has a large audience of women and queers. Most of the people I know who play KH3 want two things: 1. An absurd plot with dumb twists 2. To wreck them and make them a giant ball of tears (okay there's a 3. in that some want a game with combat as good as KH2 at high levels but this isn't as prevalent) The "KH is unfollowably complex" meme is also funny, even among KH fans, but as Augus mentions, you can follow it just fine just by like... playing the games. There are some details in the mud that are pretty unclear about the exact metaphysics on how things work or how some plans that really should've been in sync fit together (because they were written for different games before retcons made them obviously part of an overarching scheme), but if you play through and remotely pay attention you'll understand like 95% of what those convoluted recap videos make a whole thing about "explaining" in a much worse, deliberately more confusing way for comedic effect. There may be a caveat that it probably seems more complex if you play them as they come out because the series moves like a glacier and you probably forget a lot between entries. If you play them all over 2 years or so, you'll get it just fine. I prefer this KH3 video to Jim's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqnAx3gx99w Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 29, 2019 |
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Jan 29, 2019 01:25
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In non-Kingdom Hearts news, Noah Gervais released a statement to Patreon backers about his lack of output. I won't post the whole thing, but to summarize he's gone on anti-depressants and is planning to release all of his current projects by the 8th of February, listing 4 of them. A Wolfenstein: The New Colossus video An American McGee's Alice video A Far Cry 5 DLC video And a Dead Space Retrospective He also, excitingly, plans to do another travel video on a 45 day Fallout road trip, visiting locations from Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas.
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Jan 29, 2019 01:27
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Between having no central system that the games release on, and refusing to retcon or at least say 'Our information on this was incorrect' Kingdom Hearts gets so much harder to explain than an episode of Jojo. So Keyblades go from being 'The only one in existence' like Metroids or Jesus to there being three, like the Triforce to actually there're thousands or millions of them absolutely everywhere like Green Lanterns. Riku somehow gives Kairi a Keyblade out of nowhere, there've been like 7 Soras, 4 Rikus, 4 Kairis, three Roxases, and 28 Xehanorts at this point. It's a weird loving series and I am cursed to be more interested in discussing this wildly growing mess of a series than I am in putting any effort towards things that actually matter in the real world in any way like how to cook or get a job that's nigh-impossible to get fired from that lets you gently caress around on the internet too.
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Jan 29, 2019 01:31
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it's an old joke but i still got a kick out of sterling's almost-tearful despair at the games' ridiculous subtitles
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Jan 29, 2019 01:34
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I really like Jim Sterling, but I've been re-watching Leverage, and one of the major antagonists is named Jim Sterling and now I can never take that character seriously again.
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Jan 29, 2019 01:50
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RareAcumen posted:Between having no central system that the games release on, and refusing to retcon or at least say 'Our information on this was incorrect' Kingdom Hearts gets so much harder to explain than an episode of Jojo. So Keyblades go from being 'The only one in existence' like Metroids or Jesus to there being three, like the Triforce to actually there're thousands or millions of them absolutely everywhere like Green Lanterns. Riku somehow gives Kairi a Keyblade out of nowhere, there've been like 7 Soras, 4 Rikus, 4 Kairis, three Roxases, and 28 Xehanorts at this point. It's a weird loving series and I am cursed to be more interested in discussing this wildly growing mess of a series than I am in putting any effort towards things that actually matter in the real world in any way like how to cook or get a job that's nigh-impossible to get fired from that lets you gently caress around on the internet too. I mean in KHII they literally have Mickey Mouse say their information about something was incorrect and painfully spell out everything about the Ansem retcon so this isn't really 100% correct.
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Jan 29, 2019 01:53
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Isn't Kingdom Hearts just Super Smash Bros Story Mode taken too far?
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Jan 29, 2019 02:01
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Ghostlight posted:kingdom hearts isn't any different from any other square enix property - it's a story lasagna where you're best off just enjoying one layer of meat and cheese at a time. it only seems more egregious than others because of how many games there are in the core storyline because each one is a squaring of how many layers of lore lasagna there are, unlike say final fantasy where you're maxing out at *checks notes* fabula nova crystallis, jesus christ. final fantasy vii saw the exact same sort of retrocon bloat when it got sequels, and so did final fantasy x. ivalice gets by because it's more of a setting where they mostly discard each iterations contributions rather than have to honour a complicated full-storyline then sandwich in another one underneath it. What kind of pervert are you that you eat lasagna in individual layers
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Jan 29, 2019 02:23
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CharlestheHammer posted:Like I don’t get what the weird notion that KH isn’t a incoherent mess, it is embrace it. It’s like Metal Gear Solid where it’s convoluted messy ness is it’s charm. Sometimes I want to say, "Man, Kingdom Hearts is such a convoluted mess", but then I remember that I'm a fan of MGS, which be hard to follow if you're not familiar with the series. My defense for MGS, though, is that 1.) Metal Gear Solid had standard numbering for all the main-line games (save for Peace Walker), and 2.) until the KH 2.5 HD Collection came out, you could play most all the MGS games on a single console (the PS3). Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don’t know very much about video games at all, but the only video game stories that ever seemed really thought out to me were Star Control 2 and Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon. Might be dating myself a bit here. I'm always glad to see a Callahan's Crosstime Saloon reference.  I still need to actually play through that game, and I wish it would get a digital re-release.DEEP STATE PLOT posted:star control 2 is why i own a 3do Why not just play the port of 3DO version on PC?
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Jan 29, 2019 02:24
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hopeandjoy posted:
Vic Boss was gay as hell
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Jan 29, 2019 02:25
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Calaveron posted:What kind of pervert are you that you eat lasagna in individual layers
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Jan 29, 2019 02:26
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:I don’t know very much about video games at all, but the only video game stories that ever seemed really thought out to me were Star Control 2 and Callahan’s Crosstime Saloon. Might be dating myself a bit here. Callahan's Crosstime Saloon is based on a Spider Robinson book
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Jan 29, 2019 02:27
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