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Private Speech posted:im not, nor are the jobs ive posted yeah cost of living is the kicker of course. i have unironically had conversations where people have said "we moved our dev team from India to Poland and its amazing" and "what we really need is some Eastern European devs as I hear they're really good" but again, most of the UK is basically racist so that's not indicative of the average experience!
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Feb 1, 2019 16:00
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Slurps Mad Rips posted:c tp s: I'm trying to (desperately) make sure I never have to touch CMake again (this is a lie, but if it means I have to touch it less often then its worth it) by writing a library that does the common operations everyone does in CMake automatically. Even a few of the maintainers are keeping an eye on it. This means I've been deep into CMake and know it to a degree that the average mere mortal is nowhere near understanding. So here's a or your could just use meson
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Feb 1, 2019 16:22
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the united kingdom is a third world labor market, and that was before their recent self-inflicted gunshot wound thanking my lucky stars every day that i successfully escaped
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Feb 1, 2019 16:24
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Private Speech posted:im not, nor are the jobs ive posted wait those were not post-tax figures? lmao
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Feb 1, 2019 16:36
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pls don't depress me y'all
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Feb 1, 2019 16:41
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Krankenstyle posted:pls don't depress me y'all you write python, no? if you want the figgies but stay in united scandistan just go apply to some webdev jobs in like stockholm or something yes it's webdev and yes it's stockholm but there are chill places where the programming is only mildly terrible to be found TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 18:04
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Private Speech posted:Full Stack PHP Developer The gently caress is this? Also 20-28K is terrible in in Edinburgh, having just hired a bunch of fresh out of uni graduates who are all on ~27 I think. Jellyhound is run by someone I know as well. I can see why it's not paying great. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 18:17
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Xarn posted:wat? yeah, turns out committing national economic suicide hasnt worked out too well for the pound fwiw Im on about 50k in brexitland and expect that to be 60k soon. I remember when that would have been six figgies in usd 
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Feb 1, 2019 18:20
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TheFluff posted:you write python, no? if you want the figgies but stay in united scandistan just go apply to some webdev jobs in like stockholm or something thx but gently caress webdev im doing okay, i just wish i was able to work like other people do and i get real maudlin when i think about the money i coulda made if i didnt have a brokebrain. anyway, hell yea i just figured out how to split the paragraphs on these scanned docs (tesseract thinks the 2 paragraphs are 1, so the ocr is a mess) the red line is the split (its off center, midpoint is 1375, the line is at 1325) 
Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 1, 2019 |
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Feb 1, 2019 18:21
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Aramoro posted:The gently caress is this? it's a junior position, so it fits relatively speaking and the posting is code for "we want another dev who can do everything for our terrible web business" anyway as I said I do get about 10k more myself and everything
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Feb 1, 2019 18:38
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god drat is gcr's poo poo documented poorly, especially their container-optimised os stuff gcr-container-docker lets you tell it to take the creds from an env var. which env var?  okay on its github pays it tells you that it's GOOGLE_APPLICATION_CREDENTIALS but seriously why doesn't the --help tell you????
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Feb 1, 2019 19:08
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Jesus, I dont even have a degree and my base salary is $150,000 which is 114,000 pounds. whats the expected salary of a programmer in England after a decade?
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Feb 1, 2019 19:31
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ratbert90 posted:Jesus, I dont even have a degree and my base salary is $150,000 which is 114,000 pounds. 3 bob and a shilling
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Feb 1, 2019 19:41
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ratbert90 posted:Jesus, I dont even have a degree and my base salary is $150,000 which is 114,000 pounds. remember to calc in healthcare, etc, at least for a while
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Feb 1, 2019 19:41
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go checkout the stack overflow surveys, they're probably one of the better sources for all this stuff
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Feb 1, 2019 19:47
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gonadic io posted:go checkout the stack overflow surveys, they're probably one of the better sources for all this stuff the UK numbers specifically are going to be skewed by london, which has close to one sixth of the population and probably a lot higher percentage of devs, but is also really expensive but it's pretty good for general numbers yeah
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Feb 1, 2019 19:58
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Private Speech posted:the UK one specifically is going to be skewed by London, which has close to one sixth of the population and probably a lot higher percentage of devs, but is also really expensive good point, but that only reinforces what i was saying: you gotta be in london if you want the
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Feb 1, 2019 19:59
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ratbert90 posted:Jesus, I dont even have a degree and my base salary is $150,000 which is 114,000 pounds. it cannot be repeated often enough that britain is a broken shithole that produces nothing of value and whose economy is largely kept afloat by the banking sector, which is about to be utterly destroyed by brexit the most plausible reason for us to even have programmers in a decade is because well be a cheaper english-speaking offshoring destination than india lol
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Feb 1, 2019 20:21
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gonadic io posted:good point, but that only reinforces what i was saying: you gotta be in london if you want the on the other hand, you'd also be living in london, which besides being stupid expensive, is also london.
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Feb 1, 2019 20:58
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gonadic io posted:e: rust seems cool but i haven't touched in a long time. whats the preferred mechanism for implementing a non-blocking socket-based server these days?
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Feb 1, 2019 21:36
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CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:rust seems cool but i haven't touched in a long time. whats the preferred mechanism for implementing a non-blocking socket-based server these days? it's still tokio, although the api is improving since support for futures is in the lang, and async/await syntax is in nightly. idk i've not done much with it if you do have a play post a trip report
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Feb 1, 2019 21:59
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it's tokio but the ecosystem is in total flux right now and even figuring out which version of tokio you want is kind of a pain.
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Feb 1, 2019 22:03
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idk the only async i've done is using nb, which is a more simple event loop designed for embedded use where you gotta wait for registers to change instead of having a nice os level watcher/waking mechanism
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Feb 1, 2019 22:09
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:in other mvc news our "new" dev has now spent close to two weeks rewriting a page that should take at most a couple of days and the checked in code is still riddled in commented out lines and a completely separate set of duplicative controller routes "used for debugging" this was always my experience with offshore people and I just think the whole thing is a huge scam that the actual persons are only mildly innocent in
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Feb 1, 2019 22:44
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it is just that an offshore dev team should siphon as much money as possible for as little work as possible.
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Feb 1, 2019 22:55
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brap posted:it is just that an offshore dev team should siphon as much money as possible for as little work as possible. as opposed to onshore dev teams, who
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Feb 1, 2019 22:58
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this is a little too specific for me to comment on but, have you ever seen a good build tool? in my experience, properly used autoconf/automake has everything else beat (pity about windows support). emphasis on "properly used" because tons of projects do poo poo like hardcoding CFLAGS in their configures, that the autoconf manual explicitly tells you not to. I used cmake once or twice, when I was forced to (eg. google loves it. I mean it beats their old ndk build tool but...) and I had a really bad impression, especially using non-conventional toolchains and/or cross-compiling really I don't see any c/c++ build environment succeeding unless they let you do the autoconf/automake thing of enforcing a common set of compiler flags for all projects you build as part of a matching set. c/c++ compilers are like non-standard-mutually-incompatible-abi generation machines, and forcing your static libraries to compile with COMDATs, LTCG, etc. or your dynamic libraries to all link to the same runtime library etc. is a necessity I mentioned that I used to work on a cross-platform voip thing, that shared a common c/c++ core between three platforms. the core, in turn, depended on and statically linked to several third party libraries (sip stack, audio codec, crypto libraries, etc.). on android and ios, the third party dependencies were built, slowly and thoroughly, by a bash script that built each dependence six times (three architectures x two configurations), making full use of autoconf's unique features like --prefix, $CFLAGS, etc. which ensured uniform results, among which the correct ARM ABI, debugging symbols in a consistent format and true whole program optimization. the apps themselves were built in the official ides instead, and referred to the third party libraries as external dependencies that incidentally happened to be under a subdirectory of the project of course it all went to poo poo in the windows port, and not for lack of trying on my part (you have no idea how many combinations of cygwin, mingw and random wrapper scripts I tried. I even tried and failed to build a cygwin-win32 clang cross compiler), so I just bit the bullet and decided to use the dodgy visual studio project files that many projects, usually out of pity, bundle. I could kind of force all projects to build under a consistent set of toolchain/target/options, with only minimal changes to the project files (mostly to include a couple of per-solution property files that overrode the tragic defaults), a solution that I only resorted to after days of futilely reading msbuild documentation and unanswered stackoverflow questions. but I know how fragile compiling c/c++ code can be, and how consistent build options are a moral duty, and I endured it (hardest one to integrate was openssl, that must be built with a homegroan perl/make based build system. I wrapped the homegroan with a powershell script - specifically powershell and not batch so that I could serialize builds using a mutex named after the path of the source directory, because openssl doesn't support parallel builds until 1.1 - and the script with a visual studio project. worked like a charm. I pity whoever has to maintain that now) at new job, we get third party dependencies from NuGet repositories, both public and internal, and it sucks. there are no two libraries built with the same options. you can't upgrade or downgrade packages because only a narrow range of versions is built with the same version of visual studio or the same runtime library as your project. half of the libraries don't come bundled with debugging symbols at all. total clown show. basically only linux distributions and bsd ports trees get it right (at the cost of increased maintenance and/or compilation as part of installation), everyone else likes to pretend the problem of binary distribution is easy and maybe even attacks you for "making" it complicated basically, slurps, please swear to me that c++ modules will get it right
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Feb 1, 2019 23:05
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Krankenstyle posted:thx but gently caress webdev i was lucky to find a job with workflows that kinda support my particular brokebrain, as well as a supportive and understanding boss, so it worked out for me  re: prcessing scans, idk what you're using, but when i was trying to make book-like things out of photos of loose sheets of paper i found this fork of scantailor to be extremely cool and good - it supports multiple columns, de-warping of pages, converting to monochrome, etc. doesn't do ocr, but it sure makes pictures of pages look one hell of a lot better.
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Feb 1, 2019 23:47
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TheFluff posted:i was lucky to find a job with workflows that kinda support my particular brokebrain, as well as a supportive and understanding boss, so it worked out for me thx :o the mormons did the whole scan + dewarp thing. the pages are excellent, except the short distance between the columns is messing with tesseract. so i wrote up a solution for finding the inner edges of the big opencv-contours...
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Feb 2, 2019 00:18
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Sapozhnik posted:or your could just use meson meson seems nice, but every time i look at it there's still some niche thing i do in cmake that it can't replicate cmake is easily the worst build system, except for all the other build systems
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Feb 2, 2019 02:38
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I like bazel a lot
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Feb 2, 2019 02:55
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i had to maintain an ant/ivy project for years and i still shudder at the thought of executable xml it may have just been that it was a poo poo project though. fifteen years of code written by college students in their spare time, held together with spit. eugh
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Feb 2, 2019 06:24
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hackbunny posted:basically, slurps, please swear to me that c++ modules will get it right Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Currently, modules are developed to satisfy core issues, and build systems are supposed to "just figure it". What do you mean that modules should have easy mapping from name to their defining file? I see no reason why module butts can't be conditionally defined in file pretty-butterfly.cpp or ugly-moth.cpp. (Since you are on Slack, you can depress yourself by reading the SG15 channel  )
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Feb 2, 2019 08:22
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Xarn posted:Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Also make sure to read the notes from our recent telecon because were finally loving doing stuff. we have another telecon next week. luckily, a few people are listening to me now that theyve seen it with their own eyes despite me raising hell over this since October of 2017. apparently some people thought I was being alarmist and then recently realized I wasnt the one good thing that came out of that telecon was getting the author of the Modules TS to agree that compiler devs arent putting enough effort into their frontends. fingers crossed we can get something into C++20 but Ill know more in a few weeks after Kona happens.
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Feb 2, 2019 08:43
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everyone's complaining about cmake and here i am using jam
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Feb 2, 2019 14:24
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Falcorum posted:everyone's complaining about cmake and here i am using sbt
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Feb 2, 2019 14:25
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animist posted:i had to maintain an ant/ivy project for years and i still shudder at the thought of executable xml our legacy app server product is built with in-house extensions to ant. i don't think it's incompetent but it's uh... not fun to work with.
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Feb 2, 2019 14:53
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cmake support has found it's way into a lot of tooling as well clion supports it directly, vscode has a mature, well supported cmake extension and i think even msvc knows what to do with it now. direct support for other cross-platform build systems is generally mediocre to nonexistent
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Feb 2, 2019 17:56
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cmake is actually good. I never had any problems converting a large projects build system from visual studio into cmake. Made cross platform builds so easy, especially conditional stuff and generating platform specific headers. love it, id suck its dick if I could
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Feb 2, 2019 18:28
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I used to use CMake, but then I switched to Meson. I don't think I will ever go back to CMake except as a thin wrapper to call meson so I can use CLion.
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Feb 2, 2019 18:48
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