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hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Yeah I want to see pos results before I do anything.

Though when I get time I want to try revisit everyone's night actions.

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Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum
Hi all. Teleconferencing at the moment from a Dennys :cop:

I visited George Kansas who visited Asiina who visited me and delivered a note last night to prove their townliness before they were forced to turn in their gun and badge overnight. I wish I could say who did it.

I think it was either Hambeet the Election Cop (who else would be a "ninja" among cops?) or George Kansas who was caught going after Asiina and made up a lie. Toalpaz is a safe bet for third place on the suspects list.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Did / does anyone else have two powers?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

hambeet posted:

Did / does anyone else have two powers?

iirc no.

I'm probably voting GK today, we've been on the fence with him for a couple of days, and it seems to make the most sense from my perspective.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

Prince of Space posted:

Hi all. Teleconferencing at the moment from a Dennys :cop:

I visited George Kansas who visited Asiina who visited me and delivered a note last night to prove their townliness before they were forced to turn in their gun and badge overnight. I wish I could say who did it.

I think it was either Hambeet the Election Cop (who else would be a "ninja" among cops?) or George Kansas who was caught going after Asiina and made up a lie. Toalpaz is a safe bet for third place on the suspects list.

Worked out pretty well before when you tracked someone to a kill, even if he did claim it beforehand this time.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Yeah odds on gk is the most likely candidate for today, I just want to think a bit more about night actions and claims a bit more.

Mainly because Pod loves the eleventh hour paranoia

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

A bit more a bit more

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Prince of Space posted:

I'm with you, KhediveRex. I totally follow your reasoning and rationale behind your line of inquiry.

From the order of events and the timing of posts, it looks very possible that BottleKnight / George Kansas could have sneakily jumped onto CCKeane's claim that he knew "somebody" visited Hal Incandenza Night 1, and so they claimed that they were a Rookie Cop too.

Night 1 Claims:

Day 2 flip: MurmurTwin is killed by the Night-Kill and their target as a Cop-Aligned Rookie Cop is unknown.
Day 2 flip: Kashuno is killed by the Killer Cop and their target as a Cop-Aligned Rookie Cop is unknown.
Day 2 claim: Max targets Kashuno for a Killer Cop's Investigation and succeeds.
Day 2 claim: Hal Incandenza targets BottleKnight and Hal Incandenza with his Bus Driver ability and switches the results of whoever targeted them.
Day 2 soft-claim: CCKeane targets Hal Incandenza (actually BottleKnight) with his Rookie Cop Investigation and it fails because Hal Incandenza has already targeted BottleKnight.
Day 3 claim: BottleKnight targets Hal Incandenza (actually himself) with his Rookie Cop Investigation and it fails because both Hal Incandenza AND CCKeane have already targeted BottleKnight.

Night 2 Claims:

Day 3 flip: Hal Incandenza is killed by the Night-Kill and their targets as a Cop-Aligned Bus Driver are unknown.
Day 3 claim: CCKeane targets Hambeet with his Rookie Cop Investigation and it succeeds because no one else is targeting Hambeet. Hambeet comes up as Scum.
Day 3 claim: BottleKnight targets KhediveRex with his Rookie Cop Investigation and it fails because ??? has already targeted KhediveRex.

Here's why I don't believe KhediveRex's case that BottleKnight / George Kansas is lying scum who is hiding as a Rookie Cop:

- BottleKnight's reaction to CCKeane's soft-claim on Day 2 seems like genuine frustration that they got in the way of each other's investigations.
- BottleKnight stepping forward to back CCKeane's roleclaim early on Day 3 seems genuine.
- Setup Speculation: there are four potential cop sanity profiles, thus there must obviously be exactly four Cop-aligned Rookie Cops, each with a different sanity profile. No other Rookie Cops have claimed their role as such.
- No one else had claimed that they visited KhediveRex over Night 2, so even though the information that BottleKnight gave in their claim hasn't yet been verified, it was not something that BottleKnight could easily fabricated from already-established CopCon information.

In short, I believe in BottleKnight, who believes in CCKeane.

found this on my skim back through. forgot khed went deep diving on bk

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Prince of Space posted:

Right, sure, but did anybody see anything surrounding King Burgundy's sudden and mysterious dismissal that they'd like to report, or is it just me?

Prince of Space posted:

^^^ I'm gonna let this question hang in the air for a while, both to let people respond to it and to give myself time to drive home. I'd like to do a writeup based on my Night 3 action's results and King Burgundy's flip, etc. and I can't really do that where I am right now.

hey, i've had a quick scan through... outside of the birdstrike rumble, did prince ever report tracking claims before others had announced their previous nights action?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

another one for gk...

Toalpaz posted:

For what it's worth GK, I think it's scummy that you visited the doctor'd target on the night of a no kill. But then again idk why you would claim that as scum.

Prince of Space posted:

Either way you look at it, George Kansas' night action failed due to Tobbs Gnawed.

i had forgotten that.

and then they also visited asiina last night. the night they couldn't be doc'd.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

do we have anyone corroborating tobbs night actions / role? or just the lack of a night kill?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

is this gonna be like birdstrikes ACAB game where some of the cops were actually killing people when they investigated them?

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

ultimately gk's probably who i'll vote for today.

- zero successful results all game, until last night
- visited the doctors target on the night of the no kill
- visited that same target again on the night they died, and also reported a successful investigation, which is at odds with what we know of the role
- changed names mid game. very scummy.




but i'm interested, as always, in the tomorrow in the 'but what about after?' kind of way. also tobbs totally loves when i throw random shade.

about Princes' tracking claim. from what i think i saw his tracking claims only backed up already claimed actions. so he didn't bring anything new when he divulged who he tracked, it was already known information. now i could have missed where one of the rookie cops investigations failed and he then claimed to be the other person - if there was one of those, and it's quite possible there was, can someone point it out?

so anyway i'm very tired and have been idly entertaining the idea that POS bussed birdstrike as a pretty sweet scum gambit. bird was throwing a bit of shade on prince the day prior, but with no real structure.



anyway, my other tired thought was tobbs is the scum and just withheld his kill as a gambit by claiming doc. it's interesting too because the doctor wasn't killed last night, someone who i thought would have been a top priority. we also don't have a watcher we have a tracker, so the last scum shouldn't have been worried about who their target was, just if they were being followed.

i already see a flaw in this one though regarding last nights, night kill, and it's based on rookie cops investigations working how we have all been assuming they do.

anyway, so in the scenario where gk isn't scum and tobbs is, how did gk get a successful investigation result if tobbs visited asiina last night for the kill, when the other night his investigation failed when according to this "theory" tobbs would have withheld the kill and didn't actually visit asiina at all.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

hambeet posted:

is this gonna be like birdstrikes ACAB game where some of the cops were actually killing people when they investigated them?

I thought about this, and it's not out of the question since it was my first successful investigation? But it would be really bizarre because my role PM has basically zero flavor, so there's no potential hint that this would be the case, and it would be pretty bullshit if it were true.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
I got jailed by scum unless someone else's actions suggest an alternate jail.

Also that's a pretty long con by me and my scumbro bee. He either didn't use his powerful scum jailor ability or he jailed his scumbro.

If I make it to LYLO and someone actually votes me there they should probably quit playing mafia forever.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
This looks like scum beet knowing Geek will flip town and seeing if he can use it to push me as scum.

Still think night actions point to geek but if he makes it LYLO please murder him.

As for why scum didn't kill me it's probably because I didn't mention if I could self doc or not.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
It'll probably be over after today, so I'm not going to worry too much about it. :shobon:

Nine hours left and there isn't really a defense from GK or a better case. I think this is it imo. ##vote GK

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Toalpaz posted:

It'll probably be over after today, so I'm not going to worry too much about it. :shobon:

Nine hours left and there isn't really a defense from GK or a better case. I think this is it imo. ##vote GK

What?? What do you mean no defense? I’ve very clearly stated what I did and what I think about the night results. This seems like a really severe mischaracterization and I don’t like it at all.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this
Honestly, ##vote toalpaz. Flip me today if you must, the night results do look quite bad I understand, but the last scum has to be either beet or toal and I’m very much leaning toal.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

George Kansas posted:

What?? What do you mean no defense? I’ve very clearly stated what I did and what I think about the night results. This seems like a really severe mischaracterization and I don’t like it at all.

Your defense is that you did something else to the night kill. I really don't think it's a mischaracterization.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop
:cop: Votecount for Day 6 :cop:

Toalpaz (1): George Kansas
George Kansas (1): Toalpaz

Not Voting (4): CCKeane, hambeet, Prince of Space, Tobbs Gnawed

With 6 cops still alive, it takes 4 votes to ban someone from CopCon.
The current deadline is February 06th, 2019 at 7 p.m. EST -- that's in about 8 hours.

:cop: George Kansas is ON NOTICE! :cop:

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
Shhhh votefinder everything is gonna be ok.

##vote geek

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Toalpaz posted:

Your defense is that you did something else to the night kill. I really don't think it's a mischaracterization.

I’m telling the truth of what happened, which you’ll see if I end up flipping. Your rationale for voting me is largely the night action stuff. Saying I’m not defending myself is insulting! I’m doing all I can and your apathy to it smells artificial and scummy to me.

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy
I would vote beet over toal in a lylo situation.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

George Kansas posted:

I’m telling the truth of what happened, which you’ll see if I end up flipping. Your rationale for voting me is largely the night action stuff. Saying I’m not defending myself is insulting! I’m doing all I can and your apathy to it smells artificial and scummy to me.

Listen, if you really are town, no one is stopping you from casing other people (including me). But as far as I can tell you don't have any other cases against people. Saying you didn't do it isn't good enough. And expecting other people to provide a defense or explanation for you is a kind of apathy too. Your first read of the day being against the first person to vote you after 36 hours of 'discussion' looks bad (apart from a fairly town read of Tobbs). It's kinda rich hearing you call people apathetic as you claim to have forgotten to submit a night action and have also been up for free lunch earlier in the game. You being scum makes sense and it explains the seemingly plentiful rookie cops, and you being caught makes sense to me. I do believe you're scum that's given up and pushing the easiest person you can for being 'apathetic'. I encourage you to provide reads on people if you can, that is your best defense imo.

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I would vote beet over toal in a lylo situation.

I had to look up LYLO but I agree with you here.

Honestly I'm rather surprised Hambeet has lasted as long as he has in CopCon, but nailing Max as a Serial Killer was a pro-Town move. Then again, I'm also surprised that we've been doing so well in our Investigations and yet we're still getting down to the wire in these last Days. We've only had one bad vote-off in all of CopCon - KhediveRex - the rest of the cops we lost to scum.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Toalpaz posted:

Listen, if you really are town, no one is stopping you from casing other people (including me). But as far as I can tell you don't have any other cases against people. Saying you didn't do it isn't good enough. And expecting other people to provide a defense or explanation for you is a kind of apathy too. Your first read of the day being against the first person to vote you after 36 hours of 'discussion' looks bad (apart from a fairly town read of Tobbs). It's kinda rich hearing you call people apathetic as you claim to have forgotten to submit a night action and have also been up for free lunch earlier in the game. You being scum makes sense and it explains the seemingly plentiful rookie cops, and you being caught makes sense to me. I do believe you're scum that's given up and pushing the easiest person you can for being 'apathetic'. I encourage you to provide reads on people if you can, that is your best defense imo.

1) I’ve suggested reasons for what happened, including what I think is most likely, so stop mischaracterizing me? Christ.

2) You’re right, I haven’t done an excellent job of casing because I was just trying to get back in the game and read everybody after being gone for reasons I’ve already discussed. Beet has been my most likely scumpick for a while, but it’s shifted to you because of how much it looks like you’re trying to frame the game at the moment in ways that don’t make any sense to me. You’re trying to create narratives that don’t jive with my understanding of the game and it smells scummy.

3) Yeah, I’m calling you apathetic because of your lazy read. Not because of your activity, or because you had real life poo poo going on so you didn’t post or anything. So trying to turn it around on me is a cheap shot. I’m not saying you’re being inactive, I’m saying the way you’re characterizing things is apathetic and even scummy.

4) Stop mafia dadding me, I know how to play mafia. I have no idea if you’re trying to be abrasive or not but I think it takes a fair amount to rile me up and your condescension here sucks.

5) Me posting my thoughts and being active throughout this game day isn’t giving up, regardless of my alignment. I’m town, but even if I were scum, I don’t think there’s any reasonable way to see my posting today and say I’ve given up? You are REGULARLY mischaracterizing me intentionally and that is scummy af.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination
Whatever makes it easier for you to play GK! I am not trying to mischaracterize anything. That is what I think about your play and your alignment. If other people disagree that's fine but I'm pretty ok with my vote.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Toalpaz posted:

Whatever makes it easier for you to play GK! I am not trying to mischaracterize anything. That is what I think about your play and your alignment. If other people disagree that's fine but I'm pretty ok with my vote.

Same, but you.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I got jailed by scum unless someone else's actions suggest an alternate jail.

Also that's a pretty long con by me and my scumbro bee. He either didn't use his powerful scum jailor ability or he jailed his scumbro.

If I make it to LYLO and someone actually votes me there they should probably quit playing mafia forever.

I already through up a major flaw to that theory, I'm chucking everything on the table because tomorrow is probably lylo.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

This looks like scum beet knowing Geek will flip town and seeing if he can use it to push me as scum.


Yeah, nah. Stop being so deliberately obtuse.


quote:


Still think night actions point to geek but if he makes it LYLO please murder him.

As for why scum didn't kill me it's probably because I didn't mention if I could self doc or not.

I already said geek today.

Also you didn't say you could self doc, but you also hadn't all game.

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum
Hey, CCKeane and/or Toalpaz,

Are you capable of Investigating the same person two nights in a row?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I got jailed by scum unless someone else's actions suggest an alternate jail.

Also that's a pretty long con by me and my scumbro bee. He either didn't use his powerful scum jailor ability or he jailed his scumbro.

If I make it to LYLO and someone actually votes me there they should probably quit playing mafia forever.

I'm rereading and I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about last night or a previous night that you got jailed?

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination

Prince of Space posted:

Hey, CCKeane and/or Toalpaz,

Are you capable of Investigating the same person two nights in a row?

Yup

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Hehehe just in case I can't say it tommorrow I can make something out of your name: tobbstuse.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

Do we get another day if we don't lynch today?

Tobbs Gnawed
Apr 4, 2007

All round mafia nice guy

George Kansas posted:

I'm rereading and I'm a bit confused. Are you talking about last night or a previous night that you got jailed?

I was jailed N1 by the flipped scum jailor b- who I pushed all D1, and also D2 after he jailed me.

Lux Anima
Apr 17, 2016


Dinosaur Gum
Yeah I was just looking over Day 1 and there was an interesting Votefinder post from then:

Podima posted:

:cop: Votecount for Day 1 :cop:

Tobbs Gnawed (2): SolusLunes, b-minus1
Prince of Space (1): King Burgundy
King Burgundy (1): Max, Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed
Toalpaz (1): CCKeane
KhediveRex (1): 28766f69642a2930
Max (1): Murmur Twin
Murmur Twin (1): BottleKnight
BottleKnight (0): Tobbs Gnawed, Tobbs Gnawed

Not Voting (8): Asiina, Hal Incandenza, hambeet, Kashuno, KhediveRex, Prince of Space, Toalpaz, Tobbs Gnawed

With 16 cops still alive, it takes 9 votes to ban someone from CopCon.
The current deadline is January 21st, 2019 at 8 p.m. EST -- that's in about 12 hours.

Just look at the votes on Tobbs Gnawed at the time.

If Tobbs Gnawed has been scum all this time then they must have planned out this who-busses-who game super early.

hambeet
Sep 13, 2002

I wasn't seriously suggesting you're scum tobbs, at lylo you're the one I would least likely vote for.

I just have a habit of putting all my thoughts out because too many times I have kept info to myself because I was worried how it would look speculating and then I was night killed and never got to share with town. On a few of those times my speculation was spot on.

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George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

preface all my posts with this

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I was jailed N1 by the flipped scum jailor b- who I pushed all D1, and also D2 after he jailed me.

Ok cool, just wanted to make sure.

Honestly, thinking more on it, maybe I am the kill and I just have no idea? A brutal cop or w/e with zero flavor? I'm just trying to think of possibilities for night actions. It seems unlikely though.

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