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Another important thing about orcs is how lazy and apathetic they are about anything that doesn’t directly involve fighting. One of the big improvements the Chorfs made in black orcs is that they like drilling and maintaining their equipment.
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Feb 9, 2019 04:33
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Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:Warning! I was going to do a parody of "O Canada" but about fascism, but it turns out it's surprisingly hard to find decent online translation of Canadian French. And it didn't feel right to do it in English. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:Violence and the Supernatural Similarly, autotranslating the opening blurb didn't seem to be an option. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:The fictional world of Rifts® is violent, deadly and filled with supernatural monsters. Other-dimensional beings often referred to as "demons," torment, stalk and prey on humans. Other alien life forms, monsters, gods and demigods, as well as magic, insanity, and war are all elements in this book. There are pretty notable differences between Quebecois French and French French, as it turns out. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:Please note that none of us at Palladium Books® condone or encourage the occult, the practice of magic, the use of drugs, or violence. Still, it's probably easier than Palladium English.  Rifts World Book 22, Part 1: "Meanwhile, the war at Free Quebec is effectively 'The Coalition vs The Coalition!'" Yes, it's begun. The motherfucking Coalition Wars start here. Now, this isn't an official Coalition Wars book. We'll have time enough for those, believe me. But it says it right here: Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:You hold in your hands the launching point for Coalition Wars! The first of a series of books that will follow the military campaign of the Coalition States. A methodical plot to eliminate its enemies, subjugate lands, unite its allies and extract bloody revenge. This is listed as written by "Kevin Siembieda and Francois DesRochers", which I can only presume is Siembieda doing is usual rough ride over a freelancer's script. The introduction is entirely by Siembieda, and is just talking up the book in a factual but very enthusiastic tone. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:To make good on this goal, Free Quebec has met with delay after delay (which we are very sorry about), but we hope the end result will have made it worth the wait. Enjoy.  Let's have some  Erin Tarn .Danger Signs A letter to Plato on Free Quebec from Erin Tarn - Spring 104 P.A. This letter is dated to have been written before the metaplot events of Rifts World Book 11: Coalition War Campaign in 105 P.A. - and more notably, the secession of Free Quebec and the Coalition's declaration of war against them. Erin Tarn has been traveling through the (North) "Eastern Wilderness of the American Empire", and been enjoying a relatively peaceful journey, but she's heard of political strife between Free Quebec and the Coalition leadership at Chi-Town. There's rumors that Quebec might secede (we already know they will, of course), and Tarn is fretting over it. Traveling through the former New York State, they're accosted by scouts from the Longhouse Preserve, a previously mentioned Native American community (of an undetailed "dozen different tribes") located where Albany was. They have war paint on despite there being no apparent war, and guide Tarn to meet one of their tribal elders. There they meet a shaman named Julie Rivermind, 30-year old shaman, "elder", and unabashed Erin Tarn fan (because Everybody Loves Erin). Julie reports that there have been low-intensity skirmishes between Quebec and the Coalition, including the use of new Glitter Boy variants used by Quebec, including the Triax Glitter Boy variants. It seems the Coalition's accusations that Quebec has been building up a Glitter Boy arsenal are perfectly on the money. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:According to the Shaman, there have been many acts of open disobedience and armed skirmishes. So far, few have resulted in bloodshed, but there has been some bloodletting. I... that's... I... bloodshed is different from bloodletting...?   "Neck massage!" Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:As if this were not enough, our Longhouse friends reported witnessing two battles between Coalition Reconnaissance squads from the west and Glitter Boy troops they are certain originate from Free Quebec! It seems when the CS squads were discovered, the Free Quebec troops obliterated them, making a point not to allow any survivors. That sounds an awful lot like bloodshed? Or is that bloodletting? Well, whatever. So it seems Free Quebec has been doing secret operations to test their new, shinier Glitter Boys, and trying to make sure all witnesses are eliminated. Though, however, it seems they're not successful because Native Americans are pros at sneaking missions.  Aiming is for greenhorns. War at Free Quebec Erin Tarn's Perspective We kick forward to 105 P.A., where Erin Tarn is writing a book on the Coalition conflicts entitled War of Unity, War of Revenge on the Free Quebec conflict. She announces that even though the conflict between Tolkeen and the Coalition is more relevant to her personally, she feels she already knows how it's going to turn out: that the Coalition will be triumphant. Yes, this is the line author mouthpiece telling us this. Also, she fears she couldn't be "objective" about Tolkeen... uh, do you really need to be? Coalition bad. Tolkeen less bad. Coalition invader. Tolkeen defender. In any case, though the Coalition might otherwise overwhelm Quebec with their far larger force, they're divided between Tolkeen, Quebec, and a variety of less pressing threats. In addition, Free Quebec has an (arguably) superior Navy and an alliance with Triax, which gives them some edges beyond just having a bunch of Glitter Boys. Tarn handwrings about the cost to the average Coalition or Quebecois citizen, and worries that if the Coalition falls, it could be a "new dark age". Yes, as noted in Rifts Sourcebook, fascism is the necessary lynchpin for human survival, despite numerous examples of that not being the case elsewhere in the setting. But sure. She hopes that the idea of fighting other humans will get them to hesitate before total war ensues, but worries Emperor Prosek can't be swayed. Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:No war has yet begun. No real war, anyway. Only minor skirmishes, intelligence gathering and acts of sabotage. All of which have produced 20 casualties on the side of Free Quebec and six for the Coalition (and they, I am told, two of them accidentally blew themselves up). Wait, didn't you talk about Free Quebec annihilating at least two whole Coalition recon squads? Maybe that was just bloodletting. Lethal bloodletting. Editing is for lesser publishers. Erin Tarn frets, but takes a moment to explain some history. Originally, the Coalition formed from a number of independent states, but as many of them looked more and more to Chi-Town for military support and protection, they became subservient client states. Moreover, Arkansas and Fort El Dorado may be brought in as a new Coalition State, and if they do, they'll effectively be just another client state. However, Free Quebec has never really needed to depend on Chi-Town, seeing them as equals and allies. Chi-Town, though, never really returned the favor, demanding that they dismantle their Glitter Boy forces (and thusly become dependent on the main Coalition army), incorporate CS Psi-Hounds, etc. Quebec eventually and recently seceded, but offered an alliance. Emperor Prosek instead pulled a how dare they: Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:I imagine the discussion between the Emperor and his High Command involved a lot of shouting and screaming. Ending with fist-pounding and words like, "Nobody quits the Coalition States. Nobody! It's insane ... and treasonous! How will our enemies see us now? Weak. Divided. Vulnerable. How do we know Quebec hasn't allied themselves with one of them? Or are they just cowards who are glad to enjoy the fruits of our victories, but are unwilling to join in our fights."  "poo poo, did I crack a nail?" Chi-Town hopes threats will get Free Quebec to capitulate. They will not. Though there's a small minority of Coalition loyalists, Quebecois intelligence is watching them closely. They also have, as mentioned like, three times by now, a secret force of secret Glitter Boys that is secret in addition to the publicly known Glitter Boys. This includes Glitter Boys from Triax, but also the- uh- Glitter Girl. But there'll be time for that can of worms later. Next: When Brownshirts fight Blueshirts... we lose? Really?
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Feb 9, 2019 12:13
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Alien Rope Burn posted:This includes Glitter Boys from Triax, but also the- uh- Glitter Girl. But there'll be time for that can of worms later. How sexist is the glitter girl robot going to be. Lay it on us.
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Feb 9, 2019 12:23
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PurpleXVI posted:How sexist is the glitter girl robot going to be. Lay it on us. 
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Feb 9, 2019 12:30
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PurpleXVI posted:How sexist is the glitter girl robot going to be. Lay it on us. Four words: power armor rear end shot.
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Feb 9, 2019 12:34
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So, is Erin Tarn secretly a Coalition agent? Because the whole unironic "The worst thing about a war between Coalition states would be it might lead to the collapse of the Coalition!", along with the "It's insane treason!... is, um, what I imagine Coalition leaders are saying!" bit come across as... weird if she's not meant to be broadly sympathetic to the Coalition in its current state.
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Feb 9, 2019 13:36
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The problem of fictional scholars is that they can't be smarter than the author ergo ErinTAaaaarn .
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Feb 9, 2019 13:39
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Feb 9, 2019 13:39
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PurpleXVI posted:How sexist is the glitter girl robot going to be. Lay it on us. I feel positive extra chest armor will play into things.
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Feb 9, 2019 15:17
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I remember looking at the Glitter Girl and thinking, "Okay, the feminine silhouette is 'cute', but... whoever did the stats for this thing was really, really intent on making it suck rear end."
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Feb 9, 2019 15:22
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I don't know if I can read 13 straight books of but-the-alternative-is-worse fascist apologia. The reviews are good, but I might have to skip them 'cause Jesus
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Feb 9, 2019 17:45
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"Spriiingtime, for Prosek, and Chi-Toowwwn!"
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Feb 9, 2019 23:14
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megane posted:I don't know if I can read 13 straight books of but-the-alternative-is-worse fascist apologia. The reviews are good, but I might have to skip them 'cause Same, ugh.
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Feb 9, 2019 23:28
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Four words: power armor rear end shot.       
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Feb 10, 2019 07:37
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Rifts World Book 22, Part 2: "Although this war will fall into place 'by the numbers,' its end will come at a high price and will not be as easy as anticipated." Coalition Fronts First, we have a description of the Western Front, which is the Coalition siege on Tolkeen. Right now they're just trying to encircle them and cut off their supply lines, but they're running into resistance from Native Americans and Cyber-Knights. We're reassured that the Coalition will win- no, seriously, they've giving away the metaplot and we've barely started- but that it'll be more costly than they expect. However, the Coalition is managing to cut off Tolkeen's trade pretty well in preparation for their main invasion.  Like the bumblebee, science cannot answer how the SAMAS flies.* Secondly, we have the Eastern Front where they've got over a half-million troops and a million skelebots (try not to think about how expensive that many robots would be, it's insane) ready to begin the campaign against Free Quebec. However, they've run into issues with non-Coalition irregulars striking out against them, as well as the occasional supernatural monster. Well- look, just try and parse this text: Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:Although officially refuted by the CS, approximately 4,400 CS soldiers have been slain by "unallied" wilderness monsters, raiders and assailants. An additional 30,000 troops have suffered injury or illness, and over 37,000 Skelebots have been lost in combat outside the borders of Free Quebec. A full third of these injuries are the result of large scale attacks by Shemarrian Warriors along the Pennsylvania-New York border. Another 10% fell to a "robot" legion of unknown origin. (Note: ARCHIE Three and Hagan Lonovich are responsible for these conflicts and casualties. They launched the attacks for two reasons: One, to keep the CS north of their secret base and operations in Aberdeen, Maryland; and two, to test their robots against the mighty CS in open combat, the results of which Archie and Hagan are pleased with). Another 10% of these casualties came from a terribly brief but devastating battle with Splugorth Traders along the coast of Nova Scotia. Much to the CS Navy's embarrassment, (they lost half their ships in this chance encounter). Meanwhile, property damage, sabotage and theft also plague military operations in the east, with small platoons and base camps away from the main armies being the most vulnerable to such trouble (these small groups make for easier targets). Yes, the Coalition lost half their ships in a battle that cost them only 440 people out of a 700,000+ army? I... okay, maybe they meant "half the ships in the battle"? We just don't know. Also, in case you were wondering how well the Coalition Navy that was built up to fight Atlantis actually stacks up against Atlantis? The answer is, apparently from the above, "very badly". Rifts World Book 22: Free Quebec posted:The same basic strategies and tactics used against Tolkeen are planned against Free Quebec, at least initially to test the "enemy." However, there are some serious barriers and flaws to this approach. Seriously? You think? Anyway, it turns out using the same strategies you use to fight wizards on dragonback against the Glitter Boy Parade might it be a mistake! How about that! It turns out Quebec has the advantage of knowing Coalition procedure and tactics, a Quebecois Navy that can (and, we're told, will) wreck the Coalition Navy, and surprise technology. The Coalition also thinks they can blockade Quebec (they can't) and that they can cause Quebec to capitulate (they can't). The first major skirmishes have been at sea, where the Quebecois Navy has successfully foiled attempts by the Coalition Navy to blockade them, making the Coalition Navy a nonissue in the long run.  Spikes vs Skeletons. Oh, did you buy Rifts Sourcebook 4: Coalition Navy? Sorry, the fighting's over with that and it hardly matters, just forget about using any of it. Maybe you'll get to use it next war! For some reason the narrative switches over to the Tolkeen fight, the main point here being that it's costly enough to impact the Eastern Front. And also there are Dragon Kings fighting for Tolkeen, which is news. What are those? Wait for the Coalition Wars®! It turns out most of the Quebecois public is for independence, and the Coalition's offensive has only bolstered their resolve and justified their actions. However, the people of the Coalition States are generally against a war fighting Free Quebec, the constant pro-human propaganda working against Chi-Town's attempt to stir up anger. While most do see Free Quebec as a pack of traitors, they still don't want to fight other human beans. Though the Emperor's son, Joseph Prosek II, has questioned the war, Emperor Karl demanded that he A) shut up and B) fix the people's obviously wrong ideas about this. That hasn't worked either! Even the military is, apparently, only about halfway enthused about the whole thing. The only people that do seem wholly behind the whole thing are in the Coalition State of Iron Heart, which is generally tired of playing second fiddle to Free Quebec and their shiny robot asses. Too bad, Iron Heart! The writers here barely care about you, so good luck with getting any coverage. Though the Triax corporation of Germany is nominally allied with Free Quebec, they have no interest in seeing the Coalition and Quebec go to war - not that they have the resources to commit to anything other than Germany's war against the Gargoyle Empire in Europe. * Yes, I know we've worked out how bumblebees flumble, don't @ me. Next: Is that reference to "Birth of a Nation" intentional?
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Feb 10, 2019 09:41
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I am so hyped for the Glitter Girl. It’s insane that I have somehow avoided it for so long.
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Feb 10, 2019 12:05
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I think I'll only be disappointed by it, no matter how bad it is. It cannot possibly live down to my expectations.
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Feb 10, 2019 12:28
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Erin Tarn as Coalition sympathizer makes a lot of sense, but I'm guessing in-universe it's more like, "the Coalition sucks but their military-industrial complex is like 85% aimed at giant bugs from Hell forever-wars" except it sure seems like the Coalition is mostly planning to teach the innocent people of "everywhere" about the glories of being occupied by a fascist ethno-state.
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Feb 10, 2019 12:33
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Night10194 posted:The nerdy quest for 'maturity' in an ocean of blood and 'justified' genocide or fascism is goddamn everywhere in this hobby (and nerdy grimdark in general). Though it seems like it's gotten less prominent of late. megane posted:I don't know if I can read 13 straight books of but-the-alternative-is-worse fascist apologia. The reviews are good, but I might have to skip them 'cause I have a friend in the gaming world who once talked about his own Nazism-is-so-awesome period, and his theory is that it comes out of the way nerdy people struggle so badly with social ostracism at a formative age. The Nazis might have been horrible but they were charismatic, and they had cool toys. So a teenage (or emotionally-teenage) geek nursing the scars of high school might well turn to fascism because they look cool and historians give them respect, attention and fear. They try and dissect history to discover how to get some of that respect themselves and come up with precisely the wrong answers. A bit later they start to realise that nobody wants to talk to the guy casually discussing the glories of the Third Reich and a hint of self-awareness starts to creep in, but they don't want to actually change their opinions. Being geeks they're cringingly defensive about the things they love and the need for them to be heroes all the time. So we start getting the huge long justifications as to why the 40K Imperium needs an inquisition and how the setting is really about justifications for survival blah blah blah. I mean seriously, take a look at the Genestealer some day - it's an entire species designed from the ground up just to provide a justification for fascist purges. Every possible way of dealing with them that doesn't involve genocide and flamethrowers is carefully sealed off with authorial nu-uhs, usually with a kick in the teeth for anyone trying them, just so the guy who wanted to get the flamethrowers out can cry "no YOU'RE wrong, I'm the GOOD GUY for demanding genocide!". And yeah, some of us get over ourselves, or come out the other side, or get quietly turned off by the fluff when they actually read said fluff. I've taken on board Night10194's solid point that most tables don't actually play "canon" 40K, they tone it down into something playable with a lot less blood and killing. But a lot of people don't grow out of that, and a lot of people write for the first set of people as a target audience, and the more cynical gaming authors know it. So the target age for a great deal of gaming fiction is precisely 13, or people who never developed past the age of 13.
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Feb 10, 2019 13:46
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ARCHIE sure puts a lot of stock in nobody is ever going to put two and two together about this bizarre robot legion that appeared from nowhere and nobody knows anything about always popping up in a certain radius of Maryland. And how big can his "legion" honestly be, anyway? (I know, trying to pin down whys and wherefores of RIFTS lies the path to madness, but I already have a headache so why not make it worse?) Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Feb 10, 2019 |
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Feb 10, 2019 14:11
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Night10194 posted:The nerdy quest for 'maturity' in an ocean of blood and 'justified' genocide or fascism is goddamn everywhere in this hobby (and nerdy grimdark in general). Though it seems like it's gotten less prominent of late. I suspect that's one of the few silver linings to the Trump shitshow. Authoritarian fetishism can only be in vogue as long as its got a mystique about it. When we were separated from it by a half century or more it was easy to focus on what successes it had and the power it projected and gloss over the bumbling clowncar that most of it was. It also helped that most of the old fascist leadership had at least enough intelligence and savvy to want to project an actual tough, elitist image. And that a significant number of them had survived World War 1, which was no small feat. The current crop of would be authoritarians blow up that mystique. The incompetence of the would be "hard men" is on full display. The fearless leader is a gasbag whose abnormal dick is made fun of by porn stars, and the alt-right is characterized more by emotionally fragile manbabies and crying suburban nazis than veterans hardened in the last world war. MAGA hats and proud boy tattoos engender some fear to be sure, but far more they engender mockery and exclusion. I suspect we'll be seeing the aftereffects of that in games for a decent while. Even for GW, notorious for the grimdark, there's been a push more towards the satirical and levity in 40k, and AoS is very much leaning into the "gonzo heavy metal" vibe moreso than the "hard men making hard choices" wank that was 40k until recently.
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Feb 10, 2019 17:19
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Loxbourne posted:I have a friend in the gaming world who once talked about his own Nazism-is-so-awesome period, and his theory is that it comes out of the way nerdy people struggle so badly with social ostracism at a formative age. The Nazis might have been horrible but they were charismatic, and they had cool toys. A lot of that comes from the strength of Nazi propaganda, and the success it had even in other countries thanks to Nazi sympathizers. If you have twenty minutes, Dan Olson's commentary on Triumph of the Will is a good discussion on how a lot of our image of Nazis was influenced not by objective history, but by their own propaganda. There's a reason why we (at least in the US) have this image of the Nazis as this overwhelming force but also simultaneously have an image of Hitler and his cronies as just kind of sad, delusional, pathetic little monsters. The Nazis didn't want people to look closely, they wanted us to be impressed by distance shots of how many troops they had. But you look close and you see the rivers of blood within the Nazi party and Germany in general, as Nazism was an ideology that was inherently self-destructive. There's a notion that the Nazi war machine would have conquered all were it not for Hitler's foolishness, ignoring the fact that if somebody smarter and more self-aware were in charge, they probably wouldn't be a Nazi. It's the kind of group that rewards ideology and not competency, and though it's possible you could marry the two, it's not likely. Though intentionally or unintentionally, while Trump dreams of fascistic power, the state of our media allows us to see him so closely that attempts by his administration to deliver the same sort of propaganda have very limited effect. The notion of unstoppable, fine-tuned fascist forces in traditional games (and media as a whole) has generally more to do with propaganda than history. The Coalition is somehow really, really competent despite denying their people a basic education and shutting off whole avenues of exploration and strength based on an ideology primarily designed to keep the leadership in power. Prosek gets to be simultaneously hypercompetent and also the kind of person that gets goaded into an extremely costly two-front war, and that speaks to the two things constantly at war here that are never squared: actual history, and the false imagery of propaganda.
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Feb 10, 2019 18:35
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Alien Rope Burn posted:The notion of unstoppable, fine-tuned fascist forces in traditional games (and media as a whole) has generally more to do with propaganda than history. The Coalition is somehow really, really competent despite denying their people a basic education and shutting off whole avenues of exploration and strength based on an ideology primarily designed to keep the leadership in power. Prosek gets to be simultaneously hypercompetent and also the kind of person that gets goaded into an immensely costly two-front war, and that speaks to the two things constantly at war here that are never squared: actual history, and the false imagery of propaganda. The bit about Prosek is really funny as I distinctly remember an official description of him somewhere that he 'wouldn't make Hitler's mistakes.' Or maybe that was his son, I dunno.
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Feb 10, 2019 18:37
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Dawgstar posted:The bit about Prosek is really funny as I distinctly remember an official description of him somewhere that he 'wouldn't make Hitler's mistakes.' Or maybe that was his son, I dunno. That's in the corebook. And, to be fair, given that comes from Prosek himself, the irony of it (intentional or otherwise) works well enough. The notion of Hitler was some uniquely charismatic genius is, well. Propaganda. And in many older games, Hitler is held up as the highest benchmark for charisma (or oratory, or whatever) because of we as people bought into it to some extent, just crippled by a vague "madness". It also helps us ignore the notion of what "ordinary" people were capable of by attributing it to the preternatural tiny-mustached force rather than circumstance and exploitation. As such, Prosek's idealization of Hitler should be a critical flaw beyond just a moral one, but it isn't treated as that. This is because to some extent, we as a society buy into the notion that Nazi Germany was a mechanical juggernaut of military precision we barely stopped... rather than just an example of how much damage people's fears can do when grasped by monstrous opportunism.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:15
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It's that whole thing where people think you have to be smart and scary to be a danger. Stupid assholes do immense damage all the time.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:18
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There was nothing particularly unique about the Nazis, either. They're just the latest group of rear end in a top hat reactionaries to seize power in a big enough chunk that it gave them a chance to murder and rob large swathes of the world.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:22
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Night10194 posted:It's that whole thing where people think you have to be smart and scary to be a danger. Stupid assholes do immense damage all the time. while it's not meant to apply but there is a reason why the phrase 'never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" exists. Stupidity is immensely destructive - look at the measles outbreak going on now and the same fuckheaded morons are protesting a bill to prevent another deadly outbreak, they're too god drat stupid to understand the destruction they cause. Now that's well-meaning morons - destruction increases when you add malice on top of stupidity.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:37
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wiegieman posted:There was nothing particularly unique about the Nazis, either. They're just the latest group of rear end in a top hat reactionaries to seize power in a big enough chunk that it gave them a chance to murder and rob large swathes of the world. I disagree with this take as the sheer scope of what they achieved in such a short time is frighting.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:45
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It would be cool and good if we can avoid moving this thread into C-SPAM.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:14
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In any case, it's just important things to keep in mind when games bring up Nazism and similarly fascistic parallels. Whether or not it was unique in our world, the tendency to attribute them with technological, mystical, or tactical knowledge well beyond the norm is pretty endemic. I don't think game developers intend to celebrate fascism, as it's a notion that's been baked into our pop culture. But the lack of awareness regarding it is getting a reevaluation in recent years for a variety of reasons, and it's hard to avoid calling attention to that kind of thing when reading these books in the present day. So, uh, what I'm trying to say is: skulls are funny! Yes they are! Let's laugh at the skull robots that have no further implications beyond their edginess. 
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Feb 10, 2019 20:58
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I like how the Hellboy comics deal with it: It's a pulp adventure in which Nazi occultism and superscience exist, but said Nazi stuff is uniformly the result of them being desperate and foolhardy and willing to fund anyone sufficiently evil to work with them. There is precisely one ideologically Nazi superscientist in the series, and his obsession with wunderwaffen and horrible cyborgs has been nothing but a ball and chain on the leg of more competent apocalyptic threats. Basically, extrapolating Nazi wunderwaffen (i.e. 'throwing a bunch of resources at a doomed superweapon project') tendencies into the occult and weird science range. Meanwhile, the American and Soviet superscience and occultism were reliable, effective, and not even a little bit key to the war effort because the Allied militaries were not fascists obsessed with having the single biggest tank/monster.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:27
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Midjack posted:It would be cool and good if we can avoid moving this thread into C-SPAM. Yeah, you're probably right.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:35
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Alien Rope Burn posted:as Nazism was an ideology that was inherently self-destructive. I'm not going to do the 'you gotta hand it the Nazis' Candace Owens thing, but I'm going to say this is why you don't listen to Youtubers: what loving ideology? Hitler had to kill or imprison various rivals under the Nazi banner to gain and maintain control of the Nazi party but also to mold his own constantly changing belief system. Under the Nazi banner there were hyper capitalists, genuine socialists who really hated Jews, christian fundamentalists, and dozens of others sub factions of fascism. No one agreed with anyone, outside of insanely weird outliers like Goebbels and his early on Hitler worship, in a coherent fashion in any other manner then 'I'm going to form a political alliance with this guy because a lot of the low ranking members generally like him and the just of what he says, and I can gain power this way.' Fascism defined by being nebulous and adaptable in it's only aim goal of serving the interest of a small collect few and making notions and sometimes even motions at protecting a religious and/or ethnic minority. If you want know the actual reason why American nerds are obsessed with Nazi Germany, it's for the same reason the Nazis were obsessed with America and adopted it's racial laws to fit against the Jews and Roma. Nazi Germany is the failcousin to America SuccessFacismDaughter and Rome, the most successful fascist state in the world to the point people who know better suck it off, is their dad and family sticks together even the dupes aren't smart enough to realize this. There are dozens of billions of credible alt history scenarios where it remains a successful state, which is why every hack writes them, it's just that the Nazi state has to more closely resemble it's kin, which by the toss of the coin it could have.
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Feb 11, 2019 03:20
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I'm not really interested in getting into an argument about the alt-history potential of historical Nazis, save where it's at least somewhat relevant to the books I'm summarizing. I've got my take based on a variety of sources, you can disagree if you like.
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Feb 11, 2019 03:56
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Joe Slowboat posted:I like how the Hellboy comics deal with it: It's a pulp adventure in which Nazi occultism and superscience exist, but said Nazi stuff is uniformly the result of them being desperate and foolhardy and willing to fund anyone sufficiently evil to work with them. "There [in Germany] I was introduced to a small, doomed madman. But a madman in whose doom I saw a chance to harness unlimited resources." That said, the Kriegaffe are awesome.
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Feb 11, 2019 04:43
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I'm not really interested in getting into an argument about the alt-history potential of historical Nazis, save where it's at least somewhat relevant to the books I'm summarizing. I've got my take based on a variety of sources, you can disagree if you like. This is less an argument about the potential as to the why it's a punchline cliche at this point. We live an era of imperialism and the (current) death of communism or socialism as a countering force that critiques these systems leaves more room for the fasincation with (other) facist systems as these systems in fiction. This is changing as America crumbles and socialism and other forms of leftism on the rise again as systems that can critique and replace the systems we live in.
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Feb 11, 2019 05:10
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NutritiousSnack posted:Fascism defined by being nebulous and adaptable in it's only aim goal of serving the interest of a small collect few and making notions and sometimes even motions at protecting a religious and/or ethnic minority. Fascism is defined by #1: finding someone else to offload the blame for all your failings and life issues on, always someone who can't effectively fight back(a religious or ethnic minority), so you don't have to change your life or accept your own failures and thus grow as a person and #2: finding some big strong daddy leader to worship in a totally non-gay way.
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Feb 11, 2019 05:30
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Rifts World Book 22, Part 3: "CS leaders also questioned and condemned Free Quebec's sudden increase in the number of Glitter Boys, having learned (through spies at Lazlo via Erin Tarn's reports) that several hundred (perhaps thousands) of new style (and old?) Glitter Boys had been commissioned by the State." I'm only a tenth of the way (perhaps halfway) through this review (commentary?) and I'm already starting to feel a little tired (exhausted). Free Quebec Re-Birth of a Nation Did they really non-ironically name the chapter that? Ooof. So, the city of Quebec survived the cataclysm because... they did? Luck, I guess. Still, it got wrecked a lot in the "Dark Ages", and people eventually built a new city nearby called Quebec City, while the old city of Quebec became a hive of villainous scum known as Old Bones. Though Quebec City dealt with many attacks from otherdimensional forces, they survived and decided they deserved the adjective "Free" in their name, with the battle cry of "Forever free!" Then they found Glitter Boys around that time! 288 is apparently the legendary number of those discovered, though there are historical debates on that. The practice of handing down Glitter Boys to descendants apparently started in Quebec, and spread out from there. However, they also managed to uncover how to build new Glitter Boys (somehow), but tried to hide that by generally only keeping a force of several hundred GBs live at any given time.  Smoke and mirrors. We're told they have a "strong democratic government", but it'll be a long while before anything that doesn't involve battles or guns will get discussed regarding Free Quebec. They joined the Coalition thinking it would be largely just an alliance of sorts, but Emperor Prosek's rise resulted in Chi-Town treating them as lessers and making broad demands like ending the Quebecois use of cyborgs and juicers, and introducing Psi-Hounds to their forces. The only one of those three they ever honored was ceasing their cyborg construction, though it was a hollow gesture, as they already had a bunch of cyborg troops and the facilities to make more. As for juicers, they just took their creation processes underground instead. When Free Quebec created an independent alliance with Triax, that was apparently the last straw, as Chi-Town discovered they were importing parts from Triax to create a Glitter Boy force of thousands. At that point, Chi-Town demanded that Free Quebec dismantle all their Glitter Boys, convert their equipment and vehicles to the Coalition standard, that Dog Pack troops and Skelebots be adopted, and a variety of less important changes. Free Quebec refused, and that eventually led to their secession. Now, there's a contradiction here - it's said that Quebec never employed Psi-Hounds. But back in World Book 20: Canada, the origin of the "Rogue Dog Boys" in that book was that they were employed by Quebec at Chi-Town's request and then exiled during the secession. Well, it's probably a bit much for them to remember a whole section they wrote a few books ago.  Some slight scale issues in this pic. In anticipation of the Coalition invasion, Free Quebec has begun a process of rapid expansion in order to try and draw battle lines away from their communities and people. Ironically, in this process they're opting to avoid molesting or attacking D-Bee communities, hoping they'll serve as a distraction for incoming Coalition forces. They've been setting up a variety of concealed observation posts so they can start a guerrilla war, as well as trying to find ways to incite locals and monsters against the Coalition. Oh, hey, it's time for another contradiction. Here, there's a Quebecois naval base set up to watch the St. Lawrence River, and we're given a breakdown of forces, including 144 Skelebots... and we were just told New Quebec never trusted or used Skelebots (given they were produced by Chi-Town, this makes sense). Well, it's probably a bit much for them to remember what they wrote in this very chapter. Lastly, Free Quebec is aiming to only take a defensive posture, because... I'm not sure why. I guess they don't want to fight the Coalition or fellow humans if they don't have to, and enjoy their moral high ground. Because I guess when you're fighting superior numbers, the only thing to do is hunker down and wait for them to attack. Sound military strategy, I'm sure. Next: Canada Jack-boots. Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 11, 2019 11:01
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Hunt11 posted:I disagree with this take as the sheer scope of what they achieved in such a short time is frighting. Except that someone who would have managed Germany's resources more effectively would not have picked a fight with the rest of the world at all.
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Feb 11, 2019 12:21
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Midjack posted:It would be cool and good if we can avoid moving this thread into C-SPAM.
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Feb 11, 2019 12:45
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