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Apparently at some point Zin's mutation purge was removed and replaced with converting mut potions to cure mutation. Which is technically better except the most likely reason to want Zin's mutation purge is because you're horribly mutated with no potions left. Cool.
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Feb 13, 2019 10:28
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 02:47 |
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This is one of those things you could legitimately argue about. I guess the biggest change is that Zin was a good single-use final panic button. Now you can use him at any time and plan from that, which isn't actually bad - but the downside is that it's more RNG dependent. It's entirely possible to find enough potions to get two effective zinblasts out of it, but it's just as possible to not even find enough for one. I'd honestly call this a neutral change. It doesn't really reduce the utility of the power, it just moves it laterally. Works worse for some, better for others.
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Feb 13, 2019 11:26
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Internet Kraken posted:Apparently at some point Zin's mutation purge was removed and replaced with converting mut potions to cure mutation. Which is technically better except the most likely reason to want Zin's mutation purge is because you're horribly mutated with no potions left. I thought Zin was also changed to remove mutations over time as well, so it wasn't a god you picked to lock them in either.
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Feb 13, 2019 13:39
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I haven't played any form of Crawl for a few years, probably .16 or so, and I'm looking to jump into Gooncrawl. What's a fun and strong combo to do 15 runes with so I can get my feet under me?
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Feb 13, 2019 16:15
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Something something High Elf who uses Haste?
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Feb 13, 2019 16:18
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I didn't know haste was back in! Probably my favorite character ever was a Spriggan enchanter who started every single fight with haste and invis. Just speed stabbing everything.
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Feb 13, 2019 16:39
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Try a Gnoll Skald of Ash, it's quite an experience.
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Feb 13, 2019 19:01
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There is still absolutely nothing more fun in this game than dig-lunge-stab-one-shot kills with a Fo^WuJian except adding serpents lash to the mix. Passwall away from the monster, track it with antennae, dig right into him his a gently caress off dagger like elec and boom its complete annihilation
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Feb 13, 2019 21:18
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My next game I`m going Ru and rejecting everything until Hated By all comes up. Abandon Ru, do Dithmenos, then I`ll spam butterflies everywhere I go and get controlled blink for free on my formicid
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Feb 13, 2019 21:21
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Nevermind gammafunk detailed to me in his usual (at least towards me) total and comprehensive way how that plan will not work, so now I`m writing petitions to the other devs who respect and listen to me
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Feb 13, 2019 21:30
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Akett posted:Try a Gnoll Skald of Ash, it's quite an experience. I don't think that's a great way to 15 rune, to be quite fair
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Feb 14, 2019 03:26
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Cardiovorax posted:This is one of those things you could legitimately argue about. I guess the biggest change is that Zin was a good single-use final panic button. Now you can use him at any time and plan from that, which isn't actually bad - but the downside is that it's more RNG dependent. It's entirely possible to find enough potions to get two effective zinblasts out of it, but it's just as possible to not even find enough for one. Here's the thing; Zin's old option existed as something for a player clearly at their rope. If your mutations become burdensome you can purge them all away. Zin was designed to let you instantly convert your gold into piety and recover right away. Its an option I never used before (because cure mutation pots existed) but my last game it would of been very helpful. A player who uses up all their mutation potions, either through bad RNG or poor choices, is the most likely to want Zin to save them. But now you can't actually utilize mutation removal from Zin unless you save mutation potions. Its counter-intuitive. Mechanically it is better for a savvy player since you can switch to Zin, burn away bad muts while keeping good ones, and then switch to someone else. So its not a bad change but it doesn't do the same thing that the original option did. Also it makes no sense thematically; Zin shouldn't let you become a mutated powerhouse, he should be taking away all mutations indiscriminately. Course none of this would matter if they didn't take away my rmut amulets and cmut potions. Floodkiller posted:I thought Zin was also changed to remove mutations over time as well, so it wasn't a god you picked to lock them in either. Nope. That'd be fine, but if he does this it didn't happen one in my 30k turns spent scumming the abyss.
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Feb 14, 2019 05:07
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I should really try gooncrawl, but my cheevo-hunting drew me into the tournament. Decided to lead things off with a silly gnoll chaos run. To my huge surprise...code:Second ever win! 
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Feb 14, 2019 05:37
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Floodkiller posted:I thought Zin was also changed to remove mutations over time as well, so it wasn't a god you picked to lock them in either. This was an incredibly popular idea on the Tavern. So popular that it seemed inevitable. Apparently we didn't get it. Guess the Devs didn't like it. 
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Feb 14, 2019 06:02
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quote:Zin was designed to let you instantly convert your gold into piety and recover right away.
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Feb 14, 2019 10:22
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Akett posted:Try a Gnoll Skald of Ash, it's quite an experience. You were right, Gnoll Skald of Ash is super fun. I won my very first try! code:
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Feb 15, 2019 01:09
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I'm sorry you what
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Feb 15, 2019 01:23
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nice work
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Feb 15, 2019 01:58
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PMush Perfect posted:I'm sorry you what First try at that combo, not first time ever. 
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Feb 15, 2019 02:06
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Jester Mcgee posted:First try at that combo, not first time ever.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:00
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redneck nazgul posted:In as rednecknazgul. I've got you added, and you haven't shown up, and I gave it some time, and I still don't see you, so...  Doublecheck that your 0.23 RC file says this as its first line: # TEAMCAPTAIN ZeeToo
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Feb 15, 2019 03:09
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Can I just say that permabuffs make playing a Transmuter like 8000% less agonizingly tedious? I feel like a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders now that I can just set and forget Spider Form for the first few floors.
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Feb 15, 2019 04:08
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anybody got feedback on how strong hermit crab feels as a species, whether the apts need tweaking, etc
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Feb 15, 2019 08:36
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Cardiovorax posted:I thought of it in terms of a long-term investment because I don't tend to switch gods once I pick one, but when you put it like that, it is actually a bit of a problem. From a design perspective, the question now would be how often this happens and how many people rely on being able to use Zin like this, but that's not something I'm able to speak to. I mean, out of 100+ wins that was the first one I ever switched to Zin with the intent of cleaning mutations (most of my wins were also before they removed cmut and amulets of rmut though). Thing is most of the time, mutations aren't gonna be more dangerous than god wrath. So switching to Zin to clean yourself up was always a dubious choice. Zin was clearly designed with that switch in mind though, and the option WAS there. And I think its fair to say that a player who is desperate is likely to have exhausted all their mutation potions before resorting to Zin, so tying his ability too mutation potions makes no sense. Also if you had some "positive" mutation you were trying to lose like horns or wild magic, you wouldn't even be able to get rid of them. Even though Zin is supposed to hate ALL mutation. Its just another case of a dev fixing something that wasn't broken. If they added this in addition to his old ability there wouldn't be an issue. But now the ability seems designed to let you swap from TSO to Zin when you have a good mutation set and clean up your bad ones. Which is a better powergamer option, but why did that need to replace the old one? Its not a huge deal but stuff like this just annoys me. Whatever dev changed this either didn't understand the original Zin design or didn't care about it because it had never been useful to them.
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Feb 15, 2019 08:47
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quote:Which is a better powergamer option, but why did that need to replace the old one? Our mileage clearly varies there, but from my perspective, this is a good change that makes Zin better and more practical in most situations I'm likely to actually encounter.
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Feb 15, 2019 14:25
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I'm coming back to this after a while away, I have a FoEE that's going well https://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Aston/Aston.txt I've cleared Dungeon, Lair and Orc (I think? Only 2 levels now?) and I'm not sure what's next. Lair branches? Also how good is Spellforged Servitor if I haven't got any ranks in summoning yet?
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Feb 15, 2019 15:06
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Servitor is going to be as good as the valid spells it can use with <50% spellcast failure. The ones you have memorized right now would be Sandblast, Stone Arrow, Sticky Flame, LRD (for some reason!) and IMB. With your specialization into Earth and Conjurations, however, it can be a worthwhile investment due to things like Iron Shot or Crystal Spear later on. Spider's your next best bet because you can dig kill corridors at will. Shoals got the islands for the same reason but you'll have to be more careful with the wide open space.
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Feb 15, 2019 15:18
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Dachshundofdoom posted:Can I just say that permabuffs make playing a Transmuter like 8000% less agonizingly tedious? I feel like a great weight has been lifted from my shoulders now that I can just set and forget Spider Form for the first few floors. I agree. Permabuffs made playing a Skald feel really easy and strong. Apparently, paying enough attention to keep buffs up was the hardest part of that class before.
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Feb 15, 2019 15:26
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Hmm, so is LRD not so good? I only really took it because I wanted something to hit multiple enemies. Spells are the main thing I'm unsure on, I can't remember which ones were really desirable.
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Feb 15, 2019 15:42
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Aston posted:Hmm, so is LRD not so good? I only really took it because I wanted something to hit multiple enemies. Spells are the main thing I'm unsure on, I can't remember which ones were really desirable. Don't waste your time with that nonsense. As an ant-man you should be wielding a gently caress-off huge 2-hander and wrecking fools. If you want to hit multiple enemies find yourself an axe (the bigger the better) and then start boosting your charm school for sweet sweet buffs.
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Feb 15, 2019 16:23
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Floor 1 find helmet and scarf of spirit shield. Floor 2 mutate horns and magic shield. Love you Crawl.
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Feb 15, 2019 16:46
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Ummmm LRD is massively good, and with formicid you can dig holes for 1v1 combat and make spots where enemies are always going to be hit by it. Since the spell doesn`t destroy walls now, it doesn`t hurt your killholes and keeps you safe. It also hits out of LOS. People are dumb to tell you to ignore it.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:20
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Jester Mcgee posted:I agree. Permabuffs made playing a Skald feel really easy and strong. Apparently, paying enough attention to keep buffs up was the hardest part of that class before. Speaking of, I would like to ask again for feedback on permabuff power levels from anyone who has messed with them. Are any of the current MP reservation rates (only reserves the spell level's worth of MP) too low for the power they give? If they are, any pushes for specific ways to make them higher?
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Feb 15, 2019 18:14
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The most problematic thing I noticed about permabuffs was that I could put on armor that was a little too heavy for me. For example, I could put on chain mail in the beginning of the game and have a 50% or so chance to cast my buffs, then I would just cast them as many times as it took to get them up, then I had them forever. I don't have any input into how to fix it, but I felt scummy while I was doing it.
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Feb 15, 2019 20:11
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I played around with a fighter type character I usually do and it was pretty trivial to cast every permabuff by equipping two rings of wizardry and then unequipping them. The only one I needed to train for was Ring of Fire. Also, hello again! I could not for the life of me figure out how to rebase my commits for the abomination species, so I've just done away with the pull request until and unless people start clamoring for that silly 8-ring full armor badman species. In other news, I think I'll try my hand at some unrandart changes and additions. At minimum I want to add the change from the main branch that turned the Vampire's Tooth from a +4 dagger of vampirism to a +12 quick blade of vampirism.
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Feb 15, 2019 20:23
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Yeah, it does let you cast stuff you just couldn't reliably use at all, and I don't think the power of Transmutations actually affects anything but their duration. As for a solution, maybe if getting hit sometimes forced you to spend MP to sustain the transformation like when Repel/Deflect Missiles fails?
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Feb 15, 2019 20:29
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You could reduce the effectiveness of armor based on the cumulative miscast rate of all active buffs.
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Feb 15, 2019 20:32
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Aston posted:Hmm, so is LRD not so good? I only really took it because I wanted something to hit multiple enemies. Spells are the main thing I'm unsure on, I can't remember which ones were really desirable. Nah nah nah. I was remarking on it being a valid spell for Servitor since it deals damage usually indirectly and is a pure Earth spell. Other weird ones that are valid are Freeze and (less so) Airstrike. Conjure Ball Lightning makes some sort of sense in that it's a split Conjuration spell with hilarious drawbacks.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:00
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Let Lava Orcs start as worshipping Beogh and give them a level 10-ish power that lets them 'pump up' to raise their heat.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:05
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Cardiovorax posted:I mean, purely in the sense of giving you an utility option, I'd honestly call this the better version of the ability, because even though it requires finding mutpots first, it lets you cure mutations multiple times at will and at different times instead of only once. I'm generally more likely to pick up the odd bad mutation here and there that I want to get rid of eventually than to pick up a whole bunch that I need to get rid of ASAP. Zin gives you immunity to mutation at max piety though, so random mutations aren't an issue. You're never gonna not be at max piety when following Zin late game as well since you can just pay more of your otherwise useless gold to make him love you forever. The change is only better if you're switching to Zin to preserve good mutations (which makes no sense thematically) or swapping between Zin and TSO multiple times. Either way its a change that didn't need to replace the original one. Its not like Zin would be broken if he had both abilities.
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Feb 15, 2019 22:25
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