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https://twitter.com/prowrestling/status/1096930961025953792
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Feb 17, 2019 03:42
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Angry Grimace posted:Becky’s appeal is naturally underdog appeal and people who think she is Stone Cold don’t seem to notice that she’s a lot closer to Daniel Bryan than Stone Cold. Winning in the end doesn’t really matter if on the way to that win people lost interest in a character because they’re not booked strong. This is a classic flaw in WWE booking with literally dozens of examples on every portion of the card especially over the past few years, often combined with “gosh, this person doesn’t seem to be as over as they used to! Better change these plans...” If a wrestler constantly looks like a loser, people start to assume that’s what the company is booking them as and in almost all cases decide not to be as into them anymore so as to limit their own disappointment, which life is already full of.
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Feb 17, 2019 04:11
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Captain Magic posted:Winning in the end doesn’t really matter if on the way to that win people lost interest in a character because they’re not booked strong. This is a classic flaw in WWE booking with literally dozens of examples on every portion of the card especially over the past few years, often combined with “gosh, this person doesn’t seem to be as over as they used to! Better change these plans...” Becky gets put over almost nonstop. The entirety of Raw revolved around Becky despite the fact Becky is technically not even on the show. Hell, the Royal Rumble before WM30 was Daniel Bryan losing clean to Bray Wyatt, who wasn't even portrayed as being anywhere near as good as Asuka is portrayed as.
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Feb 17, 2019 04:26
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stone cold was the underdog because he was amazing but constantly got hosed over in more and more ridiculous ways every week. that's why vince and triple h turned up the same juice on daniel bryan after a while, because they thought they understood what was going on and how it would need to go once they allowed bryan to be the top face. the 'overcome the odds' cena also came out of that same thing but was much worse
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Feb 17, 2019 04:30
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I just think people are too invested in the story to look at it objectively. Becky can lose as part of the angle (either matches or promos) and it’s fine unless she never does anything in response. Given it’s the build to a huge WrestleMania they’re almost assuredly going to pay them off before that match. The only reason to be concerned about it is because I think they believe they can squeeze more from Ronda/Becky. The people freaking out about a singles match are probably convincing them that should keep it around for whenever Ronda comes back.
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Feb 17, 2019 04:45
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She shouldn't have apologized, I just think that was dumb  They also shouldn't have set up a storyline where they demanded she apologize if they weren't going to have it end any other way than her not apologizing OR beating the poo poo out of them while sarcastically apologizing.
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Feb 17, 2019 05:23
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So I guess I'm finally in the "it's all over" phase of WCW in the Retro reviews. Bryan, Vinny and Craig bury Bischoff for his "I made WCW great and I can do it again" bit at the start of this Nitro and correctly point out that he is essentially telling all the fans that WCW sucks now. But this made me curious about something very recent. Did they get similarly mad at the response to the lowest rated Raw ever? I don't know much about that, just read posts about it and I think Vince or somebody came on after that happened and was like "I'm here to fix things!" Sounds like what Bischoff did.
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Feb 17, 2019 05:54
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That was discussed on Observer Radio, with Bryan and Dave both saying that it was the same type of dumb thing that WCW did. They also made the point that people are far too quick to contrast dumb things WWE does to WCW which was far, far, far, far worse, but that they felt in this particular case the parallel made sense
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Feb 17, 2019 05:57
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Jerusalem posted:She shouldn't have apologized, I just think that was dumb I think they are setting up Becky doing a bunch of poo poo she wouldn’t be justified to do before they screwed her over.
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Feb 17, 2019 06:10
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I absolutely hope so. Getting back on track to podcasts, I really am a big fan of Bryan's idea that she crashes Ric Flair's birthday party to attack Charlotte. I personally think Ric would be thrilled to get to be part of a hot Wrestlemania angle for his birthday present.
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Feb 17, 2019 06:14
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I mean the problem is that it would have made her look like a psycho if she attacked them when they asked her to (insincerely) apologize in order to be in the main event of WrestleMania. I think the idea was to make her “give in” to authority in a really minor way where she doesn’t really sell anything about her character out.
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Feb 17, 2019 06:17
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Angry Grimace posted:I mean the problem is that it would have made her look like a psycho if she attacked them when they asked her to (insincerely) apologize in order to be in the main event of WrestleMania. I think the idea was to make her “give in” to authority in a really minor way where she doesn’t really sell anything about her character out. Fans don’t want to see their heroes have to do the same polite deferential bullshit we all have to do to get by. Every successful babyface in the post-authority era has taken what they want when they wanted it. Fans don’t want wrestlers to be good little employees. This is something the WWE does not understand and it’s killing the product.
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Feb 17, 2019 06:54
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Pinstripe Hourglass posted:Fans don’t want to see their heroes have to do the same polite deferential bullshit we all have to do to get by. Every successful babyface in the post-authority era has taken what they want when they wanted it. I think they just wanted to give a plausible reason why the babyface is gonna hit HHH with a chair or whatever. It’s pretty impossible to cool her off between now and WM. I’d be more concerned if it wasn’t clear she is the main character.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:05
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Angry Grimace posted:Becky gets put over almost nonstop. The entirety of Raw revolved around Becky despite the fact Becky is technically not even on the show. The WM30 plan was Orton vs Batista. The fans literally rebelled against their poo poo booking of Daniel Bryan, including said clean loss. The actual story doesn't make any sense if you watch it unless you understand the fans forced WWE to change their lovely story.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:17
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Wazzu posted:The WM30 plan was Orton vs Batista. The fans literally rebelled against their poo poo booking of Daniel Bryan, including said clean loss. The actual story doesn't make any sense if you watch it unless you understand the fans forced WWE to change their lovely story. I think that just makes it more apt because it’s obvious Becky is the company’s chosen hero. The babyface getting dunked on only matters in terms of being over if the fans believe you’re going to stop being pushed. Bryan was still mega over even when it seriously looked like he wasn’t getting into the main event and they booked him to just straight up lose his immediately preceding unrelated feud clean
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Feb 17, 2019 07:40
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angry grimace thinks austin should have compromised and become a corporate friendly champion
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Feb 17, 2019 07:40
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STONE COLD 64 posted:angry grimace thinks austin should have compromised and become a corporate friendly champion I just don’t think Becky losing a promo segment once in a while matters. It makes it better when she eventually comes back and kicks some rear end.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:42
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wwe's mentality, if you've followed it, is pretty easy to see here. right now the idea is becky is going to be a monster babyface in the main event of wrestlemania. whenever they have a turn or a Sure Thing planned, they look at it as an excuse to get heat on that person. this is why they have champions lose matches all the time, because they think that because they're a champion its not gonna hurt them to lose a few times here or there because they have a belt its okay. same as when they're getting ready to turn someone, they'll beat them over and over again because they feel its okay to do so because fans will forget about the losses when they turn.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:43
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Angry Grimace posted:I just don’t think Becky losing a promo segment once in a while matters. It makes it better when she eventually comes back and kicks some rear end. her winning the promos all the time....kicks more rear end.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:43
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STONE COLD 64 posted:her winning the promos all the time....kicks more rear end. It’s like the first promo she lost in like 8 months. The entire Charlotte feud was her dunking on people nonstop.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:46
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They could have had the exact same thing happen with the exact same results WITHOUT her apologizing to HHH and Stephanie. The apology was completely unnecessary and it still boggles my mind that they did it. Also I wanna point out again that the apology demand was some straight up bullshit extra condition thrown in out of nowhere so for Triple H and Stephanie to be the "wronged" party by Vince coming in and overturning their "gracious" decision to allow Becky to have the match she already earned and got medical clearance for is still really dumb. It's a blip on what is otherwise gonna be a cool as gently caress match with an awesome ending, but just because it's all probably gonna work out just fine in the end doesn't mean I have to like it or pretend it wasn't a dumb decision to make.
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Feb 17, 2019 09:20
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https://twitter.com/JimValley/status/1097106754825945089
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Feb 17, 2019 13:24
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[quote="“Angry Grimace”" post="“492646739”"] I just don’t think Becky losing a promo segment once in a while matters. It makes it better when she eventually comes back and kicks some rear end. [/quote] Babyfaces should only lose when it accomplishes something. When Austin lost a promo against Vince (note: I’m not sure this ever actually happened) it was to build heat on Vince, to make it more satisfying when Austin beat him. Who did that apology build heat on? Vince? You could have done the same story without the apology, with Stephanie and HHH being gracious babyface authority figures letting Becky wrestle because she deserves it. But that would make Becky look like the top star, not HHH and Stephanie.
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Feb 17, 2019 13:26
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Now after all these years I can FINALLY understand how people felt in the theater the first time they saw the starchild in 2001: A Space Odyssey 
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Feb 17, 2019 13:31
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Jerusalem posted:They could have had the exact same thing happen with the exact same results WITHOUT her apologizing to HHH and Stephanie. The apology was completely unnecessary and it still boggles my mind that they did it. Also I wanna point out again that the apology demand was some straight up bullshit extra condition thrown in out of nowhere so for Triple H and Stephanie to be the "wronged" party by Vince coming in and overturning their "gracious" decision to allow Becky to have the match she already earned and got medical clearance for is still really dumb. Not to fantasy book blah blah, but they write themselves into a corner every single week for no reason. How hard is it to like have her to do something like "I'm sorry...for not doing this sooner" and she beats them up? Besides the obvious fact of Steph and HHH can't be made fools, ever, they just keep making everyone look like idiots compared to the glorious McMahons.
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Feb 17, 2019 13:46
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It was a combination of the McMahons needing to be the real stars, and Hunter and Steph's need to be both the cool aunt and uncle to the talent/fans AND the top heels at the same time. So you get them theoretically doing the heel move of keeping the face out of the big title match, but in a way that shockingly DOESN'T put any heat on them and makes the face look like a dork instead. And then Vince comes out and does the heel thing anyway so the entire apology/injury angle was pointless. Like Vince's whole promo was basically "I don't like you so I'm putting the tall blonde in the match instead!" Which Stephanie could've done 2 weeks ago with the excuse that Becky wasn't originally in the Rumble match. But then people would be mad at Auntie Steph, Creator of Women's Wrestling, and might cheer Becky more.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:11
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Vince "won" segments against Austin quite a bit, but it was always "Vince has a dozen cops drag Austin out of the building" or "Vince tricks Austin into getting jumped by Undertaker and Kane/the Corporation" and then after Austin has been brutalized Vince spits in his face or whatever. He also 'won' by putting roadblocks up against Austin's goals (either winning the title or killing Vince) but the key was that Vince always "won" in very clearly unfair ways and that when the odds were even he was a cartoon of a nervous chickenshit who at least once literally pissed his pants in fear. Stephanie (and to a large degree Hunter) bypass that whole "if this obstacle wasn't in the way I would be dead right now" chickenshit part, though they've honestly been better about that with Becky (and last year with Ronda) than they are in 99% of their modern era feuds. The idea of getting HEAT on babyfaces is good and works, it's just that WWE has done such a terrible job with HEAT for so long people have become allergic to the concept rather than just WWE's lovely deployment of it.
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Feb 17, 2019 16:36
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i mean loudest wwe fans hate pushing babyfaces so much that they willed the last babyface wwe had win a lot (who won like 50% of the time) into having his cancer return so it is only natural wwe give them the product they want
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Feb 17, 2019 16:44
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WWE needs to figure out who they're catering to: bootlicking protofascists or wildass proto-anarachists. Then stick with that group for a decade or so.
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Feb 17, 2019 18:28
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coconono posted:WWE needs to figure out who they're catering to: bootlicking protofascists or wildass proto-anarachists. Then stick with that group for a decade or so. I think they picked the former over a decade ago.
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Feb 17, 2019 18:33
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Yeah, you can tell because D-Bry is a heel for cutting a promo on Vince about how people like him are ruining the world.
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Feb 17, 2019 19:31
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This is genuinely a good discussion but let's get back ontopic with podcasts in here, you can move it over to WWE Discussion if you want to continue it. A Jericho interview with Meltzer just went up on WO/F4W out of nowhere by the way, apparently he heard them talking about how much they enjoyed their Omega interview and got jealous 
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Feb 17, 2019 23:22
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Bryan and Vinny are burying this show's booking. I haven't even gotten to Lacey Evans appearing out of nowhere for no reason and it never being mentioned again.
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 08:12
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Vinny suggesting the booing fans were chanting,"YOUUUUUUU deserve it!" cracked me up. Edit: "THEY'RE IN A GODDAMN CHAMBER! WHAT THE gently caress IS A VINTNER GONNA DO!?!" 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Feb 18, 2019 |
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Feb 18, 2019 08:14
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I like that Bryan has forgotten noted details of major angles that happened weeks ago, but acts as if Rowan being a vintner, a throwaway line in a throwaway promo years ago mentioned once ever, is common knowledge.
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Feb 18, 2019 08:43
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The politics of what movies Dave gets to watch is fascinating. It is also funny seeing Bryan make the argument for Braun on Dave that Lance was trying to make for Becky on him.
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Feb 18, 2019 15:11
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CVagts posted:I like that Bryan has forgotten noted details of major angles that happened weeks ago, but acts as if Rowan being a vintner, a throwaway line in a throwaway promo years ago mentioned once ever, is common knowledge. the long storied history of Big Red
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Feb 18, 2019 15:29
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CVagts posted:I like that Bryan has forgotten noted details of major angles that happened weeks ago, but acts as if Rowan being a vintner, a throwaway line in a throwaway promo years ago mentioned once ever, is common knowledge. It was a historically bad segment
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Feb 18, 2019 15:34
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CVagts posted:I like that Bryan has forgotten noted details of major angles that happened weeks ago, but acts as if Rowan being a vintner, a throwaway line in a throwaway promo years ago mentioned once ever, is common knowledge. There is nothing else worth knowing about Rowan.
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Feb 18, 2019 15:36
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remusclaw posted:The politics of what movies Dave gets to watch is fascinating.
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Feb 18, 2019 15:49
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