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Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Fart City posted:

And then all of that interesting character work gets retconned to oblivion in 3.

Scream 3 has to be a top contender for least essential film ever made

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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Mel Mudkiper posted:

It does make me realize that a killer who kills in a way to appear mythic so people stop believing he is real would be interesting

Yeah, I also love Friday the 13th V: A New Beginning

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Franchescanado posted:

Yeah, I also love Friday the 13th V: A New Beginning

Joke all you want but the fact the whole set up to that movie is that there was a random crazy dude who just got really mad at a fat kid is pretty great

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Joke all you want but the fact the whole set up to that movie is that there was a random crazy dude who just got really mad at a fat kid is pretty great

Well, who doesn't get mad at fat kids?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Joke all you want but the fact the whole set up to that movie is that there was a random crazy dude who just got really mad at a fat kid is pretty great

Oh, I said it without irony. A New Beginning has been my go-to Friday the 13th movie to throw on for a while now. I'm pretty vocal about my appreciation for it.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

The best (and arguably low key creepiest) aspect of the killers’ motivation in the first film is that Stu has no real dog in the whole family fight. Billy is doing everything under the pretense of revenge, but Stu is just in it for the thrill kill aspect. And it’s important to remember that these are supposed to be high school kids. Columbine would occur just three years after Scream’s release.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Franchescanado posted:

Oh, I said it without irony. A New Beginning has been my go-to Friday the 13th movie to throw on for a while now. I'm pretty vocal about my appreciation for it.

I remember I was introducing a friend to horror movies and I joked that the fourth film of the Friday the 13th series was called "The Final Chapter" and he was like "that's so lame, they probably named the next one A New Beginning" and I had one of those Office pauses

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Fart City posted:

The best (and arguably low key creepiest) aspect of the killers’ motivation in the first film is that Stu has no real dog in the whole family fight. Billy is doing everything under the pretense of revenge, but Stu is just in it for the thrill kill aspect. And it’s important to remember that these are supposed to be high school kids. Columbine would occur just three years after Scream’s release.

I think there's room to argue Billy is aware of this. Notice how little he worries about Stu bleeding to death. Or how many times he angrily stabs him in the first place.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Fart City posted:

The best (and arguably low key creepiest) aspect of the killers’ motivation in the first film is that Stu has no real dog in the whole family fight. Billy is doing everything under the pretense of revenge, but Stu is just in it for the thrill kill aspect. And it’s important to remember that these are supposed to be high school kids. Columbine would occur just three years after Scream’s release.

which is weird because I think Scream 2, while being an inferior movie, had a more satirically relevant motivation that relates to all of the cultural ideas behind horror in media

of course it was done with the subtlety of a guy holding up a giant sign saying "Themes" and pointing to the screen

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Franchescanado posted:

I think there's room to argue Billy is aware of this. Notice how little he worries about Stu bleeding to death. Or how many times he angrily stabs him in the first place.

Absolutely. I've never been convinced Billy didn't do that on purpose.

Stu's death(or at least the lead up to it) is one of only a handful of scenes to ever make me pass out* in my chair. I have a thing with people bleeding out like that, especially when they're aware of it and can't do anything about it.

*I would've passed out for real had I been standing up, but since I was in a nice recliner I kinda just had to close my eyes for a minute and get the equilibrium back.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

Absolutely. I've never been convinced Billy didn't do that on purpose.

Stu's death(or at least the lead up to it) is one of only a handful of scenes to ever make me pass out* in my chair. I have a thing with people bleeding out like that, especially when they're aware of it and can't do anything about it.

*I would've passed out for real had I been standing up, but since I was in a nice recliner I kinda just had to close my eyes for a minute and get the equilibrium back.

But it also has the film’s funniest line.

“...I think I’m dying, man...” He seems so surprised by it. Like it wasn’t a stupid plan or that Billy he his best interests in mind.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Franchescanado posted:

But it also has the film’s funniest line.

“...I think I’m dying, man...” He seems so surprised by it. Like it wasn’t a stupid plan or that Billy he his best interests in mind.

Like I said, I think that’s such an interesting wrinkle to that first film. The baddie isn’t a zombie, or ghost child killer. Even though the cast is playing young, the characters are supposed to be kids. It makes the motivations and fallout all the more creepy when considered through that lens.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Franchescanado posted:

I think there's room to argue Billy is aware of this. Notice how little he worries about Stu bleeding to death. Or how many times he angrily stabs him in the first place.

Which sounds even more like Columbine!

Harris and Klebold were really different people who only came together because of a single similarity: that they were the only "real people" in the world. Harris was a sociopath who wanted nothing more than to get rid of everyone else and be the only person left in the world; I think he also had a firm belief in an afterlife where he would get this wish. Klebold wished he could make everyone as enlightened to the true nature of the universe as he was and suffered from depression due to his loneliness (both from feeling that nobody else understood him and from just not growing up with a lot of friends or attention from girls).

Klebold was feeling suicidal. When Harris began making plans to kill thousands of people, he manipulated Klebold's suicidal depression and anger to convince him to join him in going out with a bang. Harris was the actual sociopathic mastermind while Klebold was a sad sack that he was able to rope into killing with him.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Franchescanado posted:

But it also has the film’s funniest line.

“...I think I’m dying, man...” He seems so surprised by it. Like it wasn’t a stupid plan or that Billy he his best interests in mind.

I saw that scene when I was young enough that the humor was completely lost on me. All it was to me was a teenager who thought he was invincible coming to the realization that he's actually gonna die. To this day I still can't really laugh at that scene, to be honest.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

I saw that scene when I was young enough that the humor was completely lost on me. All it was to me was a teenager who thought he was invincible coming to the realization that he's actually gonna die. To this day I still can't really laugh at that scene, to be honest.

While I agree with that and think it’s valid, this is a character that murdered his friends and peers in cold blood realizing that being murdered is actually painful and not good. It’s one of my favorite parts of the movie, not because of the poetic justice (but I guess the catharsis is a part of it), but I like that the character realizes murder and death isn’t fun for the victim. That’s a fun moment for a slasher film, where death is usually flippant. And Lillard delivers it so well.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

“My mom’s gonna be so mad” is the :discourse: chaser. It’s both hilarious and morbid and generally summarizes the tone of that first film entirely

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007
Last time I watched Scream I wondered why Sydney didn’t just turn all her friends in right after they have that sociopathic conversation outside of the school. They’re all weirdly menacing and insane.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Drunkboxer posted:

Last time I watched Scream I wondered why Sydney didn’t just turn all her friends in right after they have that sociopathic conversation outside of the school. They’re all weirdly menacing and insane.

I always thought that that was pretty appropriate talk for high school seniors. Old enough for ironic detachment but young enough to not think seriously of death.

But yeah, Sidney should be a little more concerned since, you know, her MOM WAS MURDERED.

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Drunkboxer posted:

Last time I watched Scream I wondered why Sydney didn’t just turn all her friends in right after they have that sociopathic conversation outside of the school. They’re all weirdly menacing and insane.

I bet you'd narc on the punk kids in RotLD too

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Drunkboxer posted:

Last time I watched Scream I wondered why Sydney didn’t just turn all her friends in right after they have that sociopathic conversation outside of the school. They’re all weirdly menacing and insane.

The tone there is perfect because it passes as natural edgy 90's teen dialogue when you first see it, but then on rewatch you're right it takes on a completely different meaning. That goes for almost all of the dialogue between Billy and Stu actually, like the scene in the video store.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
I'd be totally cool with a new actor playing Pinhead as long as it is not some chubby nerd who makes it look like cosplay. Get Hugo Weaving to do it.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Biomute posted:

I'd be totally cool with a new actor playing Pinhead as long as it is not some chubby nerd who makes it look like cosplay. Get Hugo Weaving to do it.

I thought the Pinhead from Hellraiser Judgment was good, I wouldn't mind seeing him get a real shot at the role in a better film with an actual budget behind it. Not that Hellraiser needs 50+ million to work but Judgement felt like it was made for less than seven figures.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.
The quality of a replacement for Pinhead would be determined more by the quality of the movie than anything.

Plenty of reboots have had passible new actors take on the role but it didnt matter because the movie was trash.

Speaking of which, is Brad Dourif still chucky in the new movie?

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.
Like, Tim Curry as Pennywise was iconic and the only reason Skaarsgard worked too is because the film was also good.

Jackie Earle Haley did a good Freddy but it didnt work because the movie was bad

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007

Pomp posted:

I bet you'd narc on the punk kids in RotLD too

Well yeah. They’re mean.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Honestly any reboot needs to reset its mindset when it comes to the cenboites. It’s easy to forget that the humans are the “real” antagonists of the first two films, with Pinhead and company being a hosed-up muse chorus along for the ride. I don’t need to see Pinhead actively slaughtering randos like in Hell On Earth again. Just lean into the surrealness and gothic brooding. Make the flick uncomfortable.

Tarsem Singh could probably deliver a pretty dope flick, actually.

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?



Buglord

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Speaking of which, is Brad Dourif still chucky in the new movie?

nope

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Drunkboxer posted:

Well yeah. They’re mean.

Get a load of this poser

I bet you don't even like sex and death

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007

Pomp posted:

Get a load of this poser

I bet you don't even like sex and death

Ok, I might not call the cops on Linnea Quigley’s character. For... reasons.

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Fart City posted:

Honestly any reboot needs to reset its mindset when it comes to the cenboites. It’s easy to forget that the humans are the “real” antagonists of the first two films, with Pinhead and company being a hosed-up muse chorus along for the ride. I don’t need to see Pinhead actively slaughtering randos like in Hell On Earth again. Just lean into the surrealness and gothic brooding. Make the flick uncomfortable.

Tarsem Singh could probably deliver a pretty dope flick, actually.

Making a new Hellraiser that could push the boundaries in the spirit of the original would be wild

Like, were talking Von Triers Antichrist level poo poo

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Pomp posted:

I bet you'd narc on the punk kids in RotLD too

Suicide's my spirit animal.



Blast Fantasto
Sep 18, 2007

USAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Fart City posted:

Honestly any reboot needs to reset its mindset when it comes to the cenboites. It’s easy to forget that the humans are the “real” antagonists of the first two films, with Pinhead and company being a hosed-up muse chorus along for the ride. I don’t need to see Pinhead actively slaughtering randos like in Hell On Earth again. Just lean into the surrealness and gothic brooding. Make the flick uncomfortable.

Tarsem Singh could probably deliver a pretty dope flick, actually.

One or the things a reboot of Hellraiser should do is restore the cenobites/Pinhead to being secondary antagonists. Part of the reason the first movie works so well is the focus on the Frank/Julia stuff and how the cenobites are used sparingly to great effect.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Mel Mudkiper posted:

Like, Tim Curry as Pennywise was iconic and the only reason Skaarsgard worked too is because the film was also good.

Jackie Earle Haley did a good Freddy but it didnt work because the movie was bad

I thought JEH was sleep-walking through the role on that one.

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Get the woman who directed the first fifty shades film involved in Hellraiser please. With the right team I believe she could bring the BDSM horror to uncomfortable levels it would need today

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Franchescanado posted:

I thought JEH was sleep-walking through the role on that one.

Maybe not sleeping walking but he was very one-note. He seemed to really not want to do anything that would be accused of imitating Englund so he went all-in with dark and intense and that's just not what Freddy is all about, even in the original film.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Franchescanado posted:

I thought JEH was sleep-walking through the role on that one.

I could never decide if it was him or the makeup

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Didn't JEH also flip script and start poo poo talking Freddy and/or the franchise as soon as the bad reviews started to pour in?

MacheteZombie posted:

I could never decide if it was him or the makeup

Yeah, it was pretty ugly. Lots of flat CGI. No texture. Freddy should be bumpy and a little slimy from the burns.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

That’s because they redubbed his voice because he sounded just like Jim Carrey’s Grinch.
1:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYoEtEI_go

1:13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8cviBPaWJ0

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Franchescanado posted:

Didn't JEH also flip script and start poo poo talking Freddy and/or the franchise as soon as the bad reviews started to pour in?


Yeah, it was pretty ugly. Lots of flat CGI. No texture. Freddy should be bumpy and a little slimy from the burns.

Not slimy enough is a complaint I have with a lot of horror movies.

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CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Did AvP have enough slime? It was enough for the MPAA.

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