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qhat posted:Cold calling recruiters don't have any lucrative jobs anyway. And its sometimes okay to tell the third party recruiter because your motivation to get paid as much as possible aligns with their motivation to get the highest possible commission. I agree with this to an extent, but esp if you’re getting underpaid and want to reach market parity (or beyond), I think it pays to keep your numbers close to your chest until there’s an offer in front of you. You have to assume every bit of information you get is being passed on to the person potentially paying them (hint it’s not you) because their #1 goal is to get you placed; actual compensation is secondary. You force their interests to align with yours if you get them to invest time in that placement and get to “I’ll take this offer if they meet x y and z” instead of giving them a chance to talk you down several steps beforehand. If you’re already making good money then yeah they’ve really got nothing to offer you so you may as well save your time and moonshot em
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Mar 7, 2019 18:03
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I have to promise myself I will be much more diligent about my career and job hunting from now on Not really out of a pursuit of figgies, I already live extremely comfortably and want for nothing (except better sadbrains treatment  ), but because stagnation feels awful in so many more waysOn the other hand career progression usually means progression into leadership roles, as far as I know, and I am really really not comfortable with that and never will be (e) let's be clear though i will work hard on not underselling myself next time, heh Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 18:10
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you can never have too many figgies and i'm mad i didn't realize this sooner in life like don't take jobs solely evaluated by total comp obviously and all the power to you if you're satisfied with a humble life (I mostly am too) but stack those figgies anyway, if only so you can be financially independent sooner in life* *sorry millennials too late for you 
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Mar 7, 2019 18:31
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Cold on a Cob posted:you can never have too many figgies and i'm mad i didn't realize this sooner in life house burns down? aging dad develops dementia and needs an expensive assisted living facility? you develop a constant untreatable dizziness (or, y'know, cancer) and have to retire early? your kid is born with a chronic health condition or special needs? mom developed an online gambling problem that she kept hidden from you and blew her entire home equity line of credit and now you have to help support her? those are the sort of curveballs life throws at you as you age (each one of those is an example from my irl friends) and youll wish youd spent more time stacking figgies if (when) something similar happens to you
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Mar 7, 2019 18:47
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yeah, all true it also gives you the option to take time off between jobs if you want (which is what i'm doing after tomorrow  )
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Mar 7, 2019 18:52
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qhat posted:Cold calling recruiters don't have any lucrative jobs anyway. And its sometimes okay to tell the third party recruiter because your motivation to get paid as much as possible aligns with their motivation to get the highest possible commission. Thats not their motivation though. Its to spend the least amount of time on you so they can make it up in volume. if they can fill three roles or your one at 15% more which do you think they want?
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Mar 7, 2019 18:56
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thanks for the figgies points, i will keep all that in mind just got a call, unexpected development: things "went very well yesterday" in the quote-enquote onsite, according to the HR rep, but the hiring manager wants me to do one more 'technical screen' with one of her devs, to check on "problem solving skills" my guess is that she wants to triple-check me after i flubbed a bit on algorithms with her counterpart interviewer from another team--my task was to work out an algorithm to determine whether tree B is a subtree of tree A, and I got hung up (i was thinking in terms of a binary tree and realized i'd hit a snag with not knowing how to compare leaves for anything larger) The problem is data structures have always been my weakest point so now I've got like two hours to cram something into my head Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 19:03
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it’s more likely that they want to make sure you don’t go into meltdown mode when given a hard problem or when things aren’t working out. it really sounds to me like they’ll be judging your reactions and behavior, not your code which is awesome because it’s way easier to cram “I am Awesome Ciaphas and I just gotta be me” than it is a pile of algorithms in two hours you can do it!
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Mar 7, 2019 19:11
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yeah you got this! 
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Mar 7, 2019 19:16
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a problem i think i have is explaining my thoughts--partly resolved by remembering to speak up, but I honestly find a lot of times I'll intuit to do a thing without fully remembering or being able to explain why i do that thing kinda like the ol' show-your-work saw in maths at school, i guess, i was never brilliant at that either (ed) on the other other hand, when I'm not concentrating on a problem I have a bad tendency to speak up to fill the void, feeling like I'm expected to be filling it, like--that's how I trapped myself yesterday on compensation in any event, thanks folks, i hope i got this too 
Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 19:17
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that also sounds like you might have met with one of those rear end in a top hat interviewers who thinks whiteboard algorithm juggling is the final word in competency and either they or someone who disagrees with them is looking for ammunition to make a case one way or the other in which case a failure means nothing other than that their process sucks
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Mar 7, 2019 19:28
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raminasi posted:that also sounds like you might have met with one of those rear end in a top hat interviewers who thinks whiteboard algorithm juggling is the final word in competency and either they or someone who disagrees with them is looking for ammunition to make a case one way or the other Naw they wouldn't waste time on a 3rd interview if they were just looking to poke holes Now if it was a 1st interview, a solid amount of those are just self-back-patting extravaganzas
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Mar 7, 2019 19:30
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the overall interview yesterday across the 4.5hrs was two senior devs on the hiring manager's team, the hiring manager, her boss, and finally the manager of a sister team that i'd be working... as i understand it, next to but not really directly interacting with, as the products go anyway, that last interviewer was the one I feel like I bounced off of both in terms of that ephemeral "fit" and she was the one who presented the question I stumbled most on (the tree-subtree thing) idk, this is just meaningless idle speculation, really. not gonna help me pass/fail today either way, I don't think
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Mar 7, 2019 19:35
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Interviewing is garbage
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Mar 7, 2019 20:00
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qhat posted:Interviewing is garbage
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Mar 7, 2019 20:37
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qhat posted:Interviewing is garbage
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Mar 7, 2019 20:44
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Capitalism makes whores of us all, there’s no reason to be a dockside doxy if you can be an executive escort instead. Get every figgie you can, wring every cent from the Johns.
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Mar 7, 2019 20:48
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qhat posted:Interviewing is garbage it sucks so bad, especially being naturally anxious you'd think i'd be used to worrying a lot but my poor heart feels like it's gonna evac my chest in a minute and the guy hasn't called yet
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Mar 7, 2019 20:53
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Ciaphas posted:it sucks so bad, especially being naturally anxious Literally do anything else while you wait. I’m lucky in that I can  on useless minutiae really easily (I mean: go figure, rite?) so I can run out the clock on that sort of thing fairly easily.
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Mar 7, 2019 20:57
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Ciaphas posted:it sucks so bad, especially being naturally anxious I don't know if you are seeking prescription treatment for brainsads, but you should be able to ask your psych or maybe even your gp for something for performance anxiety. I got prescribed propanolol and it works to an extent(in my case letting me actually speak and think).
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Mar 7, 2019 21:17
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oh i choked so goddamn bad ugh binary tree inorder traversal, except iterative--so class TreeIterator(Tree*) with hasNext() and next() I kept eating a horrid mental block from knowing how to it recursively but not with a simple stack so i stumbled into confused silence after a while bleeewwww iiiiiit
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Mar 7, 2019 21:47
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KidDynamite posted:I don't know if you are seeking prescription treatment for brainsads, but you should be able to ask your psych or maybe even your gp for something for performance anxiety. I got prescribed propanolol and it works to an extent(in my case letting me actually speak and think). nothing specifically for performance anxiety, just prozac for depression and remembered lessons for generalized anxiety disorder. and being uninsured i'm loathe to hit up a doc
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Mar 7, 2019 21:49
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Rofl that they asked you to do iterative tree traversal. My bets are on them being a bunch of self important pricks so don't worry.
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Mar 7, 2019 21:51
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i think they just wanted me to prove that i can use binary search trees recursively and non- but i stumbled so hard on the second half i'm not sure they're even convinced i understand what a bintree is maybe if i email the hiring manager
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Mar 7, 2019 21:55
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Ciaphas posted:i think they just wanted me to prove that i can use binary search trees recursively and non- but i stumbled so hard on the second half i'm not sure they're even convinced i understand what a bintree is i feel like this would sound like i would want to do this also, but i think the advice in here from more experienced folks will be don't. Dealing with sad brains and job searching is not going well for me.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:02
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there's nothing i could actually say anyway except "sorry for falling apart spectacularly under last second pressure" and even phrased nicely that's just too pathetic for me to email therapy tried to teach me that sort of anxious over-apology is little more than a misguided attempt to undo damage that might not even exist but it is so hard not to give in to that end of the day i just have to shrug, forcibly remind myself i did what i could, and hope he saw more in me for his report than i saw in me Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Mar 7, 2019 |
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Mar 7, 2019 22:35
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qhat posted:Rofl that they asked you to do iterative tree traversal. My bets are on them being a bunch of self important pricks so don't worry. yeah that's a bad question on its face and then "now do it iteratively" is roughly equivalent to them farting in a bag and making you smell it Ciaphas posted:i think they just wanted me to prove that i can use binary search trees recursively and non- that is exactly what they were doing now ask yourself: how important is it to you that your co-workers be able to use bsts recursively and non-, under pressure? is it so important you'd blackball them if they couldn't do it? what do you think it's like to work with people for whom it is that important?
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Mar 7, 2019 23:18
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don't apologize to them because they wasted their own time by having a poo poo process, that's not on you
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Mar 7, 2019 23:20
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I agree with all the others, if the interviewer didn't offer help or a reformulation to help you get unstuck, that says more about them imo. Got an onsite scheduled for tomorrow (and two more for next week), hopefully these will go better than the previous one I did, where I had to implement LZW compression, got it done by the end of the interview, and then got bounced anyway  
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Mar 8, 2019 00:32
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Dijkstracula posted:I agree with all the others, if the interviewer didn't offer help or a reformulation to help you get unstuck, that says more about them imo. What the gently caress
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Mar 8, 2019 01:10
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In order to solve an interview question, both parties must first agree to what level of the Chomsky hierarchy they will be using. Also, it'd be nice if tech companies wouldn't expect all the phone interviewing to be between 9a-5p. I'm fairly certain there's teams working every shift.
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Mar 8, 2019 01:31
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Dijkstracula posted:I agree with all the others, if the interviewer didn't offer help or a reformulation to help you get unstuck, that says more about them imo. i got there at least part of the way on my own recognizance, just took a couple of prompts to get the solultion out in 40 of the 45 minutes we were scheduled for. we were talking the whole time, I was just stumbling from what I guess is panic so really, yeah, i don't know what they expected or even if that was good or bad or what, interviewing fuckin sucks, etc
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Mar 8, 2019 01:42
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The ratio of the time I've done dumb graph stuff in an interview, vs dumb graph stuff in my job is basically a million to zero. I guess that's not entirely true, I had a side project that used TIGER road data to plan roadtrip routes: Intersections became nodes and roads became (weighted) edges... Instead of writing all that bullshit myself I used networkx in python though. Even on my dumb side projects dicking around with actual implementations of shortest path and stuff are boring.
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Mar 8, 2019 01:47
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Ciaphas posted:i got there at least part of the way on my own recognizance, just took a couple of prompts to get the solultion out in 40 of the 45 minutes we were scheduled for. we were talking the whole time, I was just stumbling from what I guess is panic
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Mar 8, 2019 02:12
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Sapozhnik posted:What the gently caress lmao yeah and they started the interview by saying "so I'm sure you remember this encoding strategy from college, ..." like my dude I went to a b-tier state school equivalent in canada, somehow I think we had different university experiences
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Mar 8, 2019 02:14
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Dijkstracula posted:lmao yeah and they started the interview by saying "so I'm sure you remember this encoding strategy from college, ..." that is some real poo poo. I had a teacher that loved LZW compression and drilled that poo poo into us. i got good grades on his tests but gently caress if I can remember how to implement it. especially under interview pressure. got a code take home. a password validating framework with unit tests shouldn't take too long right?
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Mar 8, 2019 02:27
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I think the only encoding technique I remember is huffman encoding, and I think I'd need some help to implement it during an interview. I mainly remember it because the guy that invented it did so as a loving class assignment.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:30
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Had a full day interview today where there were zero whiteboard questions. So glad to be out of the IC rat race. 5 hour long sessions and no markers.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:50
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Well, my dudes, I have found a company I like, the work's gonna be long hours but the team's great and flex time as well. I managed to pacify my wife, and she's on board with my career change, especially simce the starting pay is way higher than I am making right now. Now comes the hard part - sealing the deal with the job contract and leaving my current job of being a hotelman. I just hope the company won't change their mind before signing the contract!! 
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Mar 8, 2019 12:18
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Piano Maniac posted:Well, my dudes, I have found a company I like, the work's gonna be long hours but the team's great and flex time as well. I managed to pacify my wife, and she's on board with my career change, especially simce the starting pay is way higher than I am making right now. Now comes the hard part - sealing the deal with the job contract and leaving my current job of being a hotelman. hell yea man
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Mar 8, 2019 12:21
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