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Geemer posted:Do you also get super angry whenever you see someone driving an old car that has an updated model available? Did the car companies start giving everyone all the free cars they want? Crotch Fruit posted:Simply put, Microsoft really doesn't care to offer feature updates to users, they definitely don't push them very hard at all. This is a complete lie, your system just broke at some point.
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Mar 10, 2019 17:43
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fishmech posted:There is 0 reason to hold back on updates, period, unless a specific issue occurs. Until then consider shutting up about stuff you very clearly do not understand. Win 10's feature updates and quality updates are two separate things. You can refuse the former, while still getting the latter. Someone at 1709 who still got quality updates and definitions for windows defender is at the level security wise as someone with the latest 1809 build. That fancy dark explorer theme or the clipboard history are not crucial security features.
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Mar 10, 2019 17:46
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Lambert posted:Ubuntu LTS releases are a bit problematic because only a small set of software actually gets long-term support as part of their program and there's no support for new hardware - if your hardware isn't old, Linux gets important improvements for newish hardware pretty regularly. With LTS, you're missing out on those.
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Mar 10, 2019 17:47
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Raygereio posted:Sure, but there have specific issues numerous times now, which has caused somewhat of a trust issue. So what? Do the updates or go back to Windows 98, where the malware you can spread will be highly unlikely to affect people running current systems. Raygereio posted:You can refuse the former, while still getting the latter. Yes, if you're careless and the kind of person who's inevitably going to start refusing security updates because you "lost trust" in them too. I.e. the same kind of people who've been in this thread hundreds of times demanding registry changes and poo poo to block all updates. mystes posted:Doesn't Windows LTSB have the same problem? Yes, there's very good reasons Microsoft refuses to make it easy to get and use LTSB, and hardware support is one of them. fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 17:51
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fishmech posted:So what? Do the updates or go back to Windows 98, where the malware you can spread will be highly unlikely to affect people running current systems. Nothing in your needlessly dramatic post is relevant to holding off on non essential non security updates.
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Mar 10, 2019 18:05
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fishmech posted:This is a complete lie, your system just broke at some point. Reports are that as of February, only 21.2% of Win10 users were on 1809, so that means four-fifths of the entire Win10 user base has broken machines? I'm still on 1803 and it's not because I'm actively avoiding the feature update, I'm still getting reboots for the security patches. Occam's Razor says it's Microsoft that decided to stop pushing it.
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Mar 10, 2019 18:10
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isndl posted:Reports are that as of February, only 21.2% of Win10 users were on 1809, so that means four-fifths of the entire Win10 user base has broken machines? Being fair, 4/5s of the windows 10 install base being broken in some way doesn't sound like a lot of a stretch to me. I'm still on 1803 as well, I wouldn't mind updating to see the WMR additions that it has, but the check update button thinks that 1803 is the latest still, and I really don't feel motivated to go out of my way for an unimportant update with such a troubled history.
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Mar 10, 2019 18:19
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Mischievous Mink posted:Nothing in your needlessly dramatic post is relevant to holding off on non essential non security updates. People demanding to skip "non essential" updates quickly start skipping essential updates. isndl posted:Reports are that as of February, only 21.2% of Win10 users were on 1809, so that means four-fifths of the entire Win10 user base has broken machines? There was a specific issue where they delayed rollout of 1809 for a time. That has nothing to do with the one guy's system getting stuck on 1709 though. If you used your eyes you'd notice that also said 71.9% were already on 1803 and thus beyond 1709. It also said that the number of people with 1809 had doubled from January to February, indicating that Microsoft was in fact pushing it.
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Mar 10, 2019 18:26
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fishmech posted:Did the car companies start giving everyone all the free cars they want?  Purposefully ignoring the second half of my post where I address exactly this point. Also Microsoft never gave out all the free licenses of Windows 10 people wanted. They offered a free upgrade for a period of time and, even if they don't advertise it, they still allow Windows 7/8/8.1 keys to work because they have a vested interest in getting people on Windows 10. If you want to play fair you still gotta have a valid Window 7 or up license key, so it's far from "all the free But then I should be hardly surprised since you're the guy that got triggered so hard by my obvious joke about the current and future states of corporate America being ripped right out of a dystopia novel that you went on a multi-day sperg-out because you can't understand the difference between the reality of net neutrality vs its platonic ideal.
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Mar 10, 2019 18:41
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fishmech posted:People demanding to skip "non essential" updates quickly start skipping essential updates. According to what? You've mentioned previous posters in this thread, but my recollection (which of course is fallible) is that they were upset about Windows rebooting at inopportune times, not saying they didn't want the updates at all (except for maybe that one guy - redeyes?). You're really being a lovely arguer.
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Mar 10, 2019 19:05
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My only serious issue with feature updates, beyond never really having anything I've ever cared about in them beyond hoping for a non half-baked dark theme and support for UNIX line breaks in Notepad, is there's historically been a fifty percent chance every time I do one it screws up and renders my Windows 10 VM unusable. Which is kinda ridiculous. Also going to join in on calling it ridiculous to assume Microsoft's security updates for builds are not actually security updates in full.
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Mar 10, 2019 19:25
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gourdcaptain posted:beyond never really having anything I've ever cared about in them The Windows Subsystem for Linux was a pretty amazing addition.
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Mar 10, 2019 20:14
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hooah posted:According to what? You've mentioned previous posters in this thread, but my recollection (which of course is fallible) is that they were upset about Windows rebooting at inopportune times, not saying they didn't want the updates at all (except for maybe that one guy - redeyes?). You're really being a lovely arguer. According to the entire history of Windows updates. Also yeah people's definitions of "inoppurtune times" became things like "I haven't installed any updates in 45 days because I had to do other things" and so on. People pissed that every 6 month updates "forced" themselves on their computers after they'd try to delay them. Geemer posted:
No you didn't. Because: Geemer posted:Also Microsoft never gave out all the free licenses of Windows 10 people wanted. You don't need licenses for the every 6 months updates in the first place. And they repeatedly pushed people off of 7 and 8 for free. This isn't hard. The people who didn't receive access to that stuff were people in weird licensing situations, like the rare "starter" versions, some kinds of pirated licenses, and some enterprise license schemes.
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Mar 10, 2019 20:24
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fishmech posted:Actually they are [necessary] You are asserting "feature" updates are necessary. Would you care to summarize your reasoning? quote:and the only reason to skip them is if specific issues crop up on your particular hardware/software. And when that happens, you should be constantly checking back for when the issue is resolved so you can move on. There's an excellent reason businesses have traditionally been advised to stay on the previous feature release, and it's the same reason I advise most people to stay on the previous feature release: the new ones have not received adequate testing. For a recent example, see 1809's initial release with user data loss. quote:I get that some of you were the idiots who gleefully installed "xp slim" pirated isos back in the day and never updated them til absolutely forced due to misguided beliefs about stability and speed. But that was dumb then and you're dumb now. Update your poo poo. I don't know if this was supposed to be directed at me. If it was, it was misdirected - I am the guy who tells people to update when they were disabling quality updates and also the guy who in general tells people not to trust shady third parties with important things like your base operating system. Continuing the chain: fishmech posted:This is what the "buh it's just features" people refuse to understand. They want to act like it's still 1999, not 2019, and you can just choose to leave things alone forever. What I advocate: defer feature updates for six months. Continue receiving quality updates. What I don't advocate: fishmech posted:Because when you start having people do that we start having exactly the kind of mess that started this conversation, people who don't know what they're doing wondering if they should move off of one random update point to another but being scared to because other people told them it will hurt nebulous "performance" metrics. It is precisely the same thinking that led to a bunch of people staying at arbitrary custom revisions of XP and other bad moves like that. First of all, it isn't a "Random update point" when it gets its own line in the Windows Lifecycle Fact Sheet. Someone wondered if the newest feature update had yet received enough testing to be safe and stable. It's a valid question, if difficult to easily answer with the wide variety of hardware and configurations out there. Let's leave the straw men in the farmlands where they belong, though, okay? fishmech posted:Yes, [you can delay/defer features updates while still getting quality updates] if you're careless and the kind of person who's inevitably going to start refusing security updates because you "lost trust" in them too. I.e. the same kind of people who've been in this thread hundreds of times demanding registry changes and poo poo to block all updates. There are plenty of people right here in this thread telling you they are still getting security updates and deferring feature updates, myself included. It's an officially supported thing from Microsoft. Yes, there have been other people who want to block all updates. We're not talking about those; you're not talking to those, and yet you are still trying to argue with these people here as if they were suggesting people join the zero updates forever crew. Cut it out, already.
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Mar 10, 2019 20:42
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Raygereio posted:Until then consider shutting up about stuff you very clearly do not understand. Win 10's feature updates and quality updates are two separate things. You can refuse the former, while still getting the latter. Someone at 1709 who still got quality updates and definitions for windows defender is at the level security wise as someone with the latest 1809 build. That fancy dark explorer theme or the clipboard history are not crucial security features. Eh, this isn't really true I don't think? The April 2018 build had some virtualization-based security features enabled for non-enterprise editions. 1803 added some extra security protections for the EMET replacement they have built in now. As far as I know this is core stuff and wasn't pushed out as a separate update for earlier builds? (also even if you're up to date you might have to turn on the Memory Integrity feature mentioned in that second link, they explain why it's not enabled by default for upgrades)
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Mar 10, 2019 20:51
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astral posted:You are asserting "feature" updates are necessary. Would you care to summarize your reasoning? Because there's no reason to stay on an old one long term outside of specific bugs. Duh? Is this so hard to comprehend? All the rest of your post is you missing that point, so I cut the redundancy. astral posted:
People who start skipping some updates quickly end up skipping all updates. This is precisely the reason Microsoft makes it hard to skip updates at all in Windows 10. Get over your need to white knight people who are too foolish to update. fishmech fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 20:57
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Lambert posted:The Windows Subsystem for Linux was a pretty amazing addition. On the one hand, true. On the other, my home Win 10 instance is a VM on a Linux machine and my work development machine is disconnected from the internet by security policy and I can't download the image to actually use it. -_-
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Mar 10, 2019 20:57
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baka kaba posted:Eh, this isn't really true I don't think?
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Mar 10, 2019 21:03
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fishmech posted:Because there's no reason to stay on an old one long term outside of specific bugs. Duh? Is this so hard to comprehend? Okay, let's take this slowly and hopefully you can keep up. Do you consider 'roughly six months' to be 'long term'?
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Mar 10, 2019 21:08
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astral posted:Okay, let's take this slowly and hopefully you can keep up. Yes, waiting for a whole superseding update before doing your update is a long term wait and excessively foolish. Do your updates, no ifs, ands, or buts - or go back to something that can't infect the rest of the world. Because people who start demanding to skip some updates start skipping all.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:11
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fishmech posted:Because people who start demanding to skip some updates start skipping all. You've said this at least three times, but you still haven't provided anything concrete to back up your assertion.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:22
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hooah posted:You've said this at least three times, but you still haven't provided anything concrete to back up your assertion. All he can say is "windows 98!!!!!". Nobody is risking getting infected by skipping 1809.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:30
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fishmech posted:Yes, waiting for a whole superseding update before doing your update is a long term wait and excessively foolish. Do your updates, no ifs, ands, or buts - or go back to something that can't infect the rest of the world. Each feature release still gets quality/security updates until its end of life, which going forward means at least 18 months of quality/security updates per feature release. Since 18 happens to be larger than 6, you've staggeringly little to fear about people 'infecting the rest of the world' merely by being on the previous feature release. quote:Because people who start demanding to skip some updates start skipping all. How have you managed to combine a slippery-slope, a straw man, and a sweeping generalization all in one? I'm impressed. For reference, this is how I personally handle feature updates:  Despite the higher potential of the deferral setting, I perform feature upgrades typically around 4-6 months after their release. By then, they've usually had enough testing that stability is relatively assured. A particularly rocky one like 1809 pushes it closer to the 6 month mark for me. These settings aren't going to suddenly change themselves to prevent me from getting quality/security updates.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:34
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quote:Obstinate, piece o' loving work fishmech jackassery I have never blocked anyone before, but there's a first time for everything. I mean, should I really be reading any posts by someone who can be this wrong and continue to insist they're not?* *Perhaps, for the entertainment value of the ensuing ridicule.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:52
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Lambert posted:The Windows Subsystem for Linux was a pretty amazing addition. didn't mean poo poo for us non developers
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Mar 10, 2019 22:21
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Hipster_Doofus posted:I have never blocked anyone before, but there's a first time for everything. I mean, should I really be reading any posts by someone who can be this wrong and continue to insist they're not?* the problem is that you still see the stupidity in other people's posts literally considering a script that deletes replies to fishmech
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Mar 10, 2019 22:28
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hooah posted:You've said this at least three times, but you still haven't provided anything concrete to back up your assertion. It's literally the reason Microsoft forces updates now. astral posted:Each feature release still gets quality/security updates until its end of life, Cool so you missed the point.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:29
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fishmech posted:It's literally the reason Microsoft forces updates now. Microsoft went to the point of forcing the updates and even they don't have a problem with what people are doing in this thread though dude. I think if it was the huge issue you act like it is they would have gone farther.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:46
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Mischievous Mink posted:Microsoft went to the point of forcing the updates and even they don't have a problem with what people are doing in this thread though dude. I think if it was the huge issue you act like it is they would have gone farther. Gone farther such as? They already force updates. They already don't bother to bring things back to older versions. They already directly pushed a whole new version of Windows on the global userbase for a number of years. Y'all acting like it's somehow controversial that you are expected to stay up to date in the year of our lord 2019. It's frankly bizarre.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:51
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fishmech posted:Yes, waiting for a whole superseding update before doing your update is a long term wait and excessively foolish. You've now equated six with eighteen, or at best as could fit your case, "six months on top of twelve that have passed in an undeclared chronology that makes my statement work." You equate the inequivalent. astral beat me to it. [I loving agree with your core reasoning, but even then you're repulsive in how you present your points/case.]
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Mar 10, 2019 22:55
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Tapedump posted:You replied to a post literally quoted as "six months" with "waiting for a while superseding update" Yes because the superseding updates happen every 6 months. At least when they're on time that is. Did you ever stop to wonder what the numbers in them are supposed to mean? 1803 - March 2018 and 1809 - September 2018 for example, even though both were delayed. 6 months.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:57
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I’ve just checked and I’m still on version 1803, I’ve never been offered the next build through auto updates. I don’t seek out windows updates but just install the ones that get pushed to me. It says I’m up to date. I figured that 1809 had been dropped and that they weren’t even pushing it to people anymore.
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Mar 10, 2019 23:11
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fishmech posted:Gone farther such as? They already force updates. They already don't bother to bring things back to older versions. They already directly pushed a whole new version of Windows on the global userbase for a number of years. Going farther, like as an idea not supporting people who are still on 1709 or 1803, since 1809 is out right now I guess? They have no problem with it, it's supported, and nobody is causing any damage, so things look unlikely to change, to me. But if there was some problem with what people are doing I think there are ways they could try to discourage it. Helith posted:I’ve just checked and I’m still on version 1803, I’ve never been offered the next build through auto updates. I don’t seek out windows updates but just install the ones that get pushed to me. It says I’m up to date. I am in the exact same situation, and frankly if they don't even want to push it to me I'm in no hurry. Mischievous Mink fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 23:11
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fishmech posted:Y'all acting like it's somehow controversial that you are expected to stay up to date in the year of our lord 2019. It's frankly bizarre. What's controversial is this unfounded and unsupported claim: quote:Because people who start demanding to skip some updates start skipping all. What isn't controversial (I'm still on 1803):  Helith posted:I’ve just checked and I’m still on version 1803, I’ve never been offered the next build through auto updates. I don’t seek out windows updates but just install the ones that get pushed to me. It says I’m up to date. There are still some upgrade blocks on 1809 for a couple of situations; they can be checked at this page: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4464619#section-3
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Mar 10, 2019 23:15
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astral posted:What's controversial is this unfounded and unsupported claim: So you fell asleep from the introduction of Windows Update to now, or what? Mischievous Mink posted:Going farther, like as an idea not supporting people who are still on 1709 or 1803, since 1809 is out right now I guess? They have no problem with it, it's supported, and nobody is causing any damage, so things look unlikely to change, to me. But if there was some problem with what people are doing I think there are ways they could try to discourage it. They already do discourage it: those older versions support less things. Many new things will never run properly on them, and that amount will only increase with time. I mean you CAN have a Windows XP and IE8 install currently running right now, gently caress with the registry slightly, and still get Microsoft-produced updates until next month for both of those things. But obviously you're now missing an awful lot of support. I guess by your view though they haven't discouraged using Windows XP since that last little thread of publicly available updates still exists?
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Mar 10, 2019 23:32
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Hipster_Doofus posted:I have never blocked anyone before, but there's a first time for everything. I mean, should I really be reading any posts by someone who can be this wrong and continue to insist they're not?* I honestly just keep him off ignore because I'm curious as to how he can keep topping himself in his contortions to seem like he's right in the face of clear evidence to the contrary. Which he then likes to ignore until he can try to use it against the person he's arguing with in an attempt to pull the old rabbit season, duck season thing. He's got 3 pages worth of probes and bans and got run out of a handful of subforums for exactly this behavior. It's magical. Like this: fishmech posted:All the rest of your post is you missing that point, so I cut the redundancy. I've never seen more irony in a post on the Something Awful forums. Shine on you crazy diamond, you.
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Mar 10, 2019 23:45
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fishmech posted:So you fell asleep from the introduction of Windows Update to now, or what? Running Windows XP is not a rational comparison to 1803 or even 1709, gently caress, even Windows 7.
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Mar 10, 2019 23:58
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Lol people engaging Fishmech in tyool 2019.
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Mar 11, 2019 00:24
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Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick with Mary and Judas, the past few pages of this thread. C'mon, you loving goons, put fishmech on ignore and move on. Let's get them to the top of the Most Ignored Users list already: https://forums.somethingawful.com/stats.php?statid=4&all=
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Mar 11, 2019 00:29
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Mischievous Mink posted:Running Windows XP is not a rational comparison to 1803 or even 1709, gently caress, even Windows 7. Yes it is. I mean after all we're hearing people complain updates aren't necessary because they just added "features".
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Mar 11, 2019 01:13
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