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WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747
I... don't think you paid very much attention dude

Like, the Major's war speech is all about how fascism is a completely empty ideology that's purely an excuse for endless violence... and how he loving loves it for that

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Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.

thotsky posted:

I mean, yeah sure, it does that, but it also implies that having a strong ideology, even if it is bonkers and ends up getting you killed, is really cool. The show itself never criticizes the nazis for being monsters, it just shows them monstering it up and enjoying it, until they're killed off by one of the other murderous and fanatical factions who hate them. Make no mistake, the show goes out of its way to make the nazis look cool while they're chomping on babies or whatever; it's not an anti-fascist piece of work.

Hellsing's thing is that monsters are cool, but it doesn't equate this with being morally good and in fact is pretty explicit that a) monsters need to be destroyed for the good of society and b) losing your humanity and becoming a monster is tragic. Alucard is deeply disappointed when the fanatical Catholic priest who hates his guts gives up his humanity, because he wanted the man to kill him as a human. (Note that for all that he's this trenchcoated "badass," the entire show is a series of increasingly elaborate suicide attempts on Alucard's part.)

Similarly, there's a pretty critical scene in which the Nazi leader boasts about how authentic and superior he is as a human being, and Alucard laughs in his face for suggesting he's human and not a monster.

It is an anti-fascist work. Now, I still have thematic misgivings about it -- the obvious one being that, in reality, the nazis really were human, they didn't cross some magical threshold that separates human beings from beasts; they were just really awful human beings. It doesn't do a great job of acknowledging the banality of evil. But that's not quite the same thing.

Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Mar 10, 2019

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth
Like, you can for sure hit it for 'it says it's better to believe a bad thing than believe nothing' yea but you can't also ignore the entire reason the nazis are doing their thing is because being a nazi is just an easy way to have an excuse for endless war and ultimately these actual fascists reveal what a hollow and meaningless worldview they have when you divorce it from its flowery talk of glory and conquest. That's the whole point of The Major's character, he doesn't even believe in anything but bloodshed and suffering and his followers are super happy to go 'gently caress yea let's do it endless war baby'.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
The best thing Hellsing does is imply an AMAZING adaptation of Dracula that we never get to see. It'd be like an extended, anime version of a Peter Cushing Christopher Lee thing, only Christopher Lee is ultra super powerful with stupid anime abilities and Cushing *CRUSHES HIM* despite that as just an ordinary man.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Like, the Major's war speech is all about how fascism is a completely empty ideology that's purely an excuse for endless violence... and how he loving loves it for that

Yeah, and the shows does nothing to frame that as a bad thing. Yeah, it's obvious that he is crazy, but so is Alucard, the Priest, the entire Vatican, and most of Hellsing. It's established in the show that most of the actors are fatalistic, fanatic and extremely violent. It's a bloodbath, and the Nazis are just another faction, they are only special in that they start the fight; everyone were clearly itching for it. Violence for the sake of violence is a perfectly valid ideology in this universe.

The show gives the Major everything he asks for. He basically wins in the end. It never really shows him to be anything but cool and self-realized apart from making fun of him for being short and fat. You all as viewers are saying that "violence is a hollow ideology", but the shows does not think so; the Major dies smiling.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Mar 10, 2019

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
Anti-fascist anime-ish content begins and ends with NES Bionic Commando.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Burkion posted:

The best thing Hellsing does is imply an AMAZING adaptation of Dracula that we never get to see. It'd be like an extended, anime version of a Peter Cushing Christopher Lee thing, only Christopher Lee is ultra super powerful with stupid anime abilities and Cushing *CRUSHES HIM* despite that as just an ordinary man.

I've only got the vaguest impression of Hellsing so please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Peter Cushing also have a rocking pair of tits in this?

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Neo Rasa posted:

Regarding horror anime, there's a 1987 one called Lily C.A.T. on Prime that's a little longer than it needs to be but still worth checking out. A mashup of Alien and The Thing, with creature designs by Yoshitaka Amano!

Man gently caress you, this "movie" was mostly plagiarism down to the yellow-lit mainframe room and computer called Mother. I want my 70 minutes back for this turd.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:

Easy Diff posted:

Man gently caress you, this "movie" was mostly plagiarism down to the yellow-lit mainframe room and computer called Mother. I want my 70 minutes back for this turd.

I like how you quoted this in a way that implies you didn't read the rest of my post where I mention that it's not particularly original and just immediately rushed off to watch it.

TheBizzness
Oct 5, 2004

Reign on me.
So I threw Halloween 4 on while I was writing a paper earlier and like... it’s not that bad?

The mask is TERRIBLE and it certainly isn’t a good movie by any stretch but it’s entertaining enough. I might even like it more than Halloween 2.

The sequels all get a bad rap because 5 through 8 are god awful but I think 4 is just pretty mediocre. I’m not upset I watched it or anything like that.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

thotsky posted:

Yeah, and the shows does nothing to frame that as a bad thing. Yeah, it's obvious that he is crazy, but so is Alucard, the Priest, the entire Vatican, and most of Hellsing. It's established in the show that most of the actors are fatalistic, fanatic and extremely violent. It's a bloodbath, and the Nazis are just another faction, they are only special in that they start the fight; everyone were clearly itching for it. Violence for the sake of violence is a perfectly valid ideology in this universe.

It's the war film problem I suppose. Just like you can't make an effective anti-war statement while showing rousing battle scenes, you can't successfuly criticise the Nazis for indulging in nihilistic violence if your show revolves around violence being inherently cool to watch.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

I just got back from Greta. I thought it was good but not great. Not sure why I felt this way but it seemed very "by the numbers" to me, and also maybe the trailer showed a little too much leg for my tastes. The whole premise is really great though, it's like a live action evil fairy tale.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Easy Diff posted:

Man gently caress you, this "movie" was mostly plagiarism down to the yellow-lit mainframe room and computer called Mother. I want my 70 minutes back for this turd.

Alien is kinda same thing except not as blatant as Lily Cat.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Grendels Dad posted:

I've only got the vaguest impression of Hellsing so please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Peter Cushing also have a rocking pair of tits in this?

nah, that's his great (great?) granddaughter.

It's a plot point in Hellsing that the original Dracula novel happened, with a few differences

The biggest one being after Helsing kicks the poo poo out of Dracula, he effectively enslaves and rehabilitates him into being a weapon against evil. Helsing kicks Dracula's rear end so hard that Alucard wears his loving coat and compares all other men to him as the standard bearer for what humanity can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epol6eXdcnk

This is the only thing we ever see of the dude. Imagine Peter Cushing saying these lines

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?



Buglord

Zwabu posted:

I just got back from Greta. I thought it was good but not great. Not sure why I felt this way but it seemed very "by the numbers" to me, and also maybe the trailer showed a little too much leg for my tastes. The whole premise is really great though, it's like a live action evil fairy tale.

I had the same reaction, and the trailer definitely showed way too much. I kept expecting some kind of escalation and it didn't come. Isabelle Huppert was great but the plot felt very predictable.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

gey muckle mowser posted:

I had the same reaction, and the trailer definitely showed way too much. I kept expecting some kind of escalation and it didn't come. Isabelle Huppert was great but the plot felt very predictable.

I almost feel like in a story like this it's sometimes better if the villain has NO history, like they came out of nowhere, or if the history is very vaguely hinted at.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


The Hellsing manga is so unimaginably worse than both the anime adaptations.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 12, 2015

by Cyrano4747

thotsky posted:

Yeah, and the shows does nothing to frame that as a bad thing. Yeah, it's obvious that he is crazy, but so is Alucard, the Priest, the entire Vatican, and most of Hellsing. It's established in the show that most of the actors are fatalistic, fanatic and extremely violent. It's a bloodbath, and the Nazis are just another faction, they are only special in that they start the fight; everyone were clearly itching for it. Violence for the sake of violence is a perfectly valid ideology in this universe.

The show gives the Major everything he asks for. He basically wins in the end. It never really shows him to be anything but cool and self-realized apart from making fun of him for being short and fat. You all as viewers are saying that "violence is a hollow ideology", but the shows does not think so; the Major dies smiling.

Okay, now I see what you missed.

There actually is a pretty big contrast between the Nazis and everyone else in this regard. Everyone else has a legitimate reason of some sort to fight; Integra wants to protect the world from the supernatural, Alucard believes in her mission wholeheartedly, Anderson is devoted to the integrity and authority of the Vatican. Even Pip Bernadotte is loyal to money, and eventually to Seras (and, in turn, the desire to avenge his death is what turns Seras from ineffectual and aimless to a heroic slaughter machine). The heroes all have some sort of goal to achieve or some sort of better world they want to make, and it's for that reason that they commit violence; by comparison, the Nazis just commit violence to make more violence happen.

Like, sure, the show doesn't come out and outright say that one of these is worse than the other, but... I kinda feel like that's mostly because outright direct political soapboxing is kinda outside the series' lane. The political stuff that is there, really feels like it's mostly Hirano's own personal views sneaking into a story he really didn't intend to express them in, and... it seems like he's someone who basically Gets It, because his portrayal of Nazis is pretty loving unkind and pretty on-point with regards to how.

Neo Rasa
Mar 8, 2007
Everyone should play DUKE games.

:dukedog:
The 1970 Japanese movie Blind Woman's Curse is on Prime and that's a movie everyone here should see. Something I love about it is how the horror content is sort of on the fringes of society and of the characters' lives but interwoven into the trappings. Like when you watch it, you'll regularly start to think "huh, I guess this is more of a lighthearted sort of revenge romp more than anything" but then some poo poo goes down and it gets more and more frequent. It's not super gory by today's standards but what's there stands out and is memorable because of those sudden changes in tone. The main gist of it is a brutally escalating gang war that's both egged on by and also feeds the bloodlust of an evil black cat. So like it goes from folks goofing around/whatever to one of our friends has had the tattoo ripped off their back and they've been strung up in a tree and the tattoo has been pinned to our front door kind of stuff. Also stars Meiko Kaji (Lady Snowblood herself).

That way it's on the fringes is also kind of interesting because of the setting. It follows a lot of yakuza tropes, but it's in a much more rural setting, like it just feels waaaay out there and disconnected from the modern world and has some light psychedelia moments that add to that.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

What the gently caress, Dick Miller was thirty when he was in Bucket Of Blood?

Did that dude just come out of the womb looking like a surly townie?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

Fart City posted:

What the gently caress, Dick Miller was thirty when he was in Bucket Of Blood?

Did that dude just come out of the womb looking like a surly townie?

Much like there was never a point in his life that Donald Pleasance didn't look 40

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


s.i.r.e. posted:

Alien is kinda same thing except not as blatant as Lily Cat.

What movie did you think I was accusing Lily Cat of plagiarising from?

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Okay, now I see what you missed.

There actually is a pretty big contrast between the Nazis and everyone else in this regard. Everyone else has a legitimate reason of some sort to fight; Integra wants to protect the world from the supernatural, Alucard believes in her mission wholeheartedly, Anderson is devoted to the integrity and authority of the Vatican. Even Pip Bernadotte is loyal to money, and eventually to Seras (and, in turn, the desire to avenge his death is what turns Seras from ineffectual and aimless to a heroic slaughter machine). The heroes all have some sort of goal to achieve or some sort of better world they want to make, and it's for that reason that they commit violence; by comparison, the Nazis just commit violence to make more violence happen.

Like, sure, the show doesn't come out and outright say that one of these is worse than the other, but... I kinda feel like that's mostly because outright direct political soapboxing is kinda outside the series' lane. The political stuff that is there, really feels like it's mostly Hirano's own personal views sneaking into a story he really didn't intend to express them in, and... it seems like he's someone who basically Gets It, because his portrayal of Nazis is pretty loving unkind and pretty on-point with regards to how.

Nah, I think you're the one who does not get it. They're all the same, the other factions just go to the trouble of trying to justify their bloodlust and fatalism, until that too finally falls away. They all have arcs where this is shown to be folly:

Bernadotte realizes that him and his crew, who are willing to kill and be killed over petty change, were really only in it for the thrill anyway, so why not throw away your life for a pretty lady instead? Anderson ends up betraying his faith and becoming one of the monsters he's ostensibly on this earth to kill, because he just wants to win (kill) that much. Integra, the supposed Hero, is just another death-dealer; she's driven by revenge and pride, willing to sacrifice anything and anyone, and her pretensions of saintly knighthood are scoured away by Alucard who requires her explicit orders for his atrocities. Seras herself is a prime example of this being the prevailing theme of the series, her transformation into a murderous beast relieving the tension of her not fitting into this universe. Alucard is not just prompting her to drink more blood or whatever, but to adopt the same bleak and bloody outlook everyone else in the series has.

The author chose to put Vampire Nazis in his book because he thought they were really cool villains. They've got an "edgy" history and their uniforms look good. I think they even comment on that in the fiction itself, that Nazis are the "ultimate bad guys of history" or something. They happen to be the faction that embraces the outlook of the series itself from the start, that violence and war is cool and fun. Which is alright, I play shooters and stuff, whatever floats your boat, but the series is not "hard on Nazis". They're never really shown to be wrong, they're mostly competent and having a grand old time, and all the good guys are effectively as morally corrupt as they are.

thotsky fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Mar 10, 2019

an owls casket
Jun 4, 2001

Pillbug

Zwabu posted:

Netflix has a Thai horror movie called Shutter, about a young couple who are in a hit and run late one night, and subsequently the man, who’s a photographer, starts having mysterious phantom images appear in his photos when developed. Not bad.

Doing some serious-rear end post necromancy here, but yeah, the original Shutter is great. The reveal and the very last scene were a couple of pretty good gut punches.

That Dang Dad
Apr 23, 2003

Well I am
over-fucking-whelmed...
Young Orc
Caught DEEP DARK on Amazon streaming. Premise: a struggling artist contemplates suicide because his stuff is trash when suddenly a strange little hole in his studio apartment starts talking to him. The hole helps him improve his work in exchange for a little companionship... and everything works out wonderfully! (jk)

I enjoyed the concept of the film quite a bit. I like "place horror" where there is something off about a location and I'm a sucker for mysterious holes (:pervert:). DEEP DARK ends up being something of a horror comedy in the way it makes fun of the main character and plays a little bit with visual gags. There isn't too much gore, it's more the horror of the situation (although there are couple bloody scenes). The film also does not err on the side of overexplaining things, which I appreciated.

The biggest problem for me was the script. The writing was really weak with characters expressing themselves in flat movie tropes and seemingly motivated by the plot itself rather than much internal volition. This film will invite comparisons with VELVET BUZZSAW and while that is plenty divisive for people, you can really see a contrast with the way VB has characters who very clearly want things and express a complexity of interior life that leads them to make bad decisions or say the wrong thing. DD just feels underwritten by someone uncomfortable with dialogue. The film is written and directed by a guy named Michael Medaglia and it looks like this is his first feature length film, so that checks out.

That said, I had fun with the film! It's a weird premise with some laughs and some spooks and I don't regret my time in the world it creates. I will take an imaginative failure over a tired "win" any day. I think if Medaglia can find a writing partner or two, he could end up creating some cool stuff in the future.

I give DEEP DARK 3 out of 5 moist horror holes!

gey muckle mowser
Aug 5, 2003

Do you know anything about...
witches?



Buglord

mary had a little clam posted:

Caught DEEP DARK on Amazon streaming. Premise: a struggling artist contemplates suicide because his stuff is trash when suddenly a strange little hole in his studio apartment starts talking to him. The hole helps him improve his work in exchange for a little companionship... and everything works out wonderfully! (jk)

neat, sounds a bit like the novel The Cipher, which is goon favorite in the horror thread in TBB

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
I watched Big Legend on prime last night and it was mostly boring and seemed like a student from that somehow got on Amazon, but the ending was sort of incredible and I'm onboard for a sequel now

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?



I just came across the trailer for Rampant. Since I'm really enjoying Kingdom on Neflix, how is this compared to that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJi3nYrXtv8

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

This would make a great horror short

Source:
McNaly, David, Monsters of the Market: Zombies, Vampires and Global Capitalism (2011)

FreudianSlippers fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Mar 11, 2019

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Berserk is the best horror anime, even if its not as good as the manga. However, you don't realize its horror until really late; it just comes off as a war thing.

Note that this is referring to the old OAVs or the trilogy of movies and not the 2010s series of CG episodes that becomes an unintentional comedy.

Lurdiak
Feb 26, 2006

I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.


Darko posted:

Berserk is the best horror anime, even if its not as good as the manga. However, you don't realize its horror until really late; it just comes off as a war thing.

Note that this is referring to the old OAVs or the trilogy of movies and not the 2010s series of CG episodes that becomes an unintentional comedy.

The Berserk anime is very bad and dull.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Lurdiak posted:

The Berserk anime is very bad and dull.

I haven't really met anyone that watched it as their first exposure that agreed, and this being older (ie. Gen X) non anime watchers. Probably because it is mostly just a GoT style war movie without many anime tropes in it. Then 3rd movie hits and they all blow their minds. Only criticism I tend to see is manga readers who are looking from an entirely different perspective.

It's also near impossible for people who like Hellraiser to dislike Berserk in general, because, reasons.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
The og Berserk series owns. It's one of the only animes I've ever enjoyed. And yeah, I'm a big Hellraiser fan.

Stink Billyums
Jul 7, 2006

MAGNUM
I watched a Chinese bootleg of Berserk 20 years ago and since the comic was still running I figured I'd wait for that to finish before starting on it. Little did I know...

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

Origami Dali posted:

The og Berserk series owns. It's one of the only animes I've ever enjoyed. And yeah, I'm a big Hellraiser fan.

I own a Behelit *and* a puzzle box.

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Vampire Hunter D is good and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust is near-perfection

Kvlt!
May 19, 2012



Easy Diff posted:

Vampire Hunter D is good and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust is near-perfection

whats the difference is one a sequel or spin off?

Shrecknet
Jan 2, 2005


Neither is set before or after the other, theyre each self contained. Bloodlust was made 20 years after D though, so its infinitely better looking, but D probably has the more satisfying story and gorier kills.

sigher
Apr 22, 2008

My guiding Moonlight...



Easy Diff posted:

What movie did you think I was accusing Lily Cat of plagiarising from?

I assumed you were talking about it being a blatant rip-off of Alien, but Alien is ripping off Planet of the Vampires and It! The Terror from Beyond Space.

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

s.i.r.e. posted:

I assumed you were talking about it being a blatant rip-off of Alien, but Alien is ripping off Planet of the Vampires and It! The Terror from Beyond Space.

Also Dark Starr

Like, so much of Dark Starr

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