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Oh yeah, the writing of the kids' dialogue definitely feels forced at times. I actually like it in regards to Meadow because it often sounds like somebody trying their best to sound older, as opposed to an old person trying to sound young. I always feel odd complaining about the show so heavily aping Scorcese because, after all, it is a mob show AND Scorcese is pretty loving amazing, but it's the same reason I was underwhelmed by American Hustle. Somebody trying to ape Scorcese just highlights how much better he is at it than anybody else. Coming to the Sopranos 20 years later, when the show is itself a cultural touchstone, it's fun to get back into the mindset that this was a pretty new and weird thing on television, and it is no surprise that it hadn't fully formed its own identity just yet.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:01
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The only movie that I feel like it aped Scorsese and actually managed to pull it off is Boogie Nights. But Paul Thomas Anderson is pretty amazing in his own right.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:06
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Great post, Jerusalem! As far as the ducks go, I think it’s just meant to be taken at face value, and that Melfi is meant to be right. It’s just not the most gracefully-written scene.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:02
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Mahoning posted:The only movie that I feel like it aped Scorsese and actually managed to pull it off is Boogie Nights. But Paul Thomas Anderson is pretty amazing in his own right. A Bronx Tale should go in this category too. Also, later seasons Christopher would never make that "Luis Brazzi" mistake.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:10
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It is kind of funny that Analyze This came out the same year as the first season and if you just looked at the pilot you might think that it was also going to be some sort of profanity-filled dramedy what with stuff like "Nuthin.' We had coffee." and "What're you complainin' about? HMO, you're covered!" Or the joke about how two crews have a guy nicknamed 'Pussy.'
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Mar 11, 2019 01:32
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Something I actually dig about the two Pussys bit is that Hesh is kind of indifferent to the idea that Big Pussy might be getting whacked, but a couple scenes later he and Big Pussy are hanging out all buddy buddy to pull their friendly threatening act against Mahaffey. Good reminder I guess that people in the life are family right up to the second that they have to go, at which point... eh, whatever. Also goddamn I love that shot of the ice cream truck driving away and the kid speeding after it on his bike as Mahaffey realizes just how utterly hosed he is.
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Mar 11, 2019 01:38
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I still love that the pilot has Tony as the boss of the family and then they just pretended like Jackie was the boss the whole time when the show started.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:00
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pentyne posted:I still love that the pilot has Tony as the boss of the family and then they just pretended like Jackie was the boss the whole time when the show started. That is funny in hindsight, as Tony's house is on a scale bigger than the Apriles' (unless Rosalie moved after Jackie died, which I guess is possible) and that would probably be a no-no. Every other Jersey guy we see lives in places considerably smaller.
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Mar 11, 2019 02:09
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Yeah, I think they try to justify it as Tony was such a good earner that they gave him a lot more leeway than normal and set him up with a phony job that could justify his income enough to afford his McMansion/put his kids into high end schools etc. That does have a neat parallel later in the show's run when Ralph shows up and he also generates so much money that he's given a lot more rope than everybody else (still lives in a pretty normal suburban house though), though obviously that doesn't end so well for him.
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Mar 11, 2019 03:23
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Do they actually call Tony the boss in the pilot or is it just an implied thing?
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Mar 11, 2019 06:27
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There's a scene where Junior snaps at Tony and asks who the hell he thinks he is, and Tony replies,"I'm the guy who says what's what." At the end of the episode, Junior tells Livia that some "friends of ours" in New York are saying maybe Junior should be in charge rather than Tony, which implies that Tony is the top guy in Jersey. There's enough wiggle room in what is portrayed plus the back story of Jackie Aprile to make it work okay, but I do think the fact that random dudes in some upmarket restaurant know Tony from the newspapers show he was meant to be a pretty prominent mobster as opposed to just some capo.
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Mar 11, 2019 06:31
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YlqDuKazUU&t=22s Speaking of awkward dialogue.
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Mar 11, 2019 12:22
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what works about jackie is that he's such a moron that you can't tell if he's being sincere or if he's trying to ingratiate himself to meadow to get closer to tony meadow's also a colossal moron everyone's a moron except for furio and charmaine
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Mar 11, 2019 12:47
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Man, Jackie's story is sad. The kid just isn't very bright, and his two main role models both don't actually try anything save 'threats' and 'give him a gun' and shockingly none of that works. It does also feature Meadow's full transformation into Future Mob Wife.
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Mar 11, 2019 13:48
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Vichan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YlqDuKazUU&t=22s It's hard to believe that this scene and the fight scene from Whitecaps is the same show. But yeah, after somebody said it, I'm now realizing that everyone that's not an older white person has poorly written dialogue.
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Mar 11, 2019 15:56
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Jerusalem posted:Tony has spent the episode complaining that things aren't like they were back in the day, that this new generation lacks the work ethic and strength of purpose of even his generation. But as he walks with one of those new generation kids looking to the future, Livia and Junior drive to the party echoing many of his same complaints. Or rather Junior does, as Livia carefully and purposefully allows him to drive the conversation himself. What starts initially as two old people complaining about the younger generation not valuing them quickly turns into Junior ranting about how he can't run his business the way he wants, with Tony sticking his nose in, and not paying the proper respect to New York! Things are down all across the board, alot of friends of theirs are complaining, and the mob is no longer recession proof. As he rants, Livia's face tightens as she ponders what is being said, especially as he - carefully eying her up from the side - lightly touches on the idea that maybe... just maybe something needs to be done about Tony. I love how, when the topic starts veering away from the topic she wants (ranting about Tony) to generic old-person ranting about younger people, she immediately cuts him off so he refocuses on his original point. Old-person rants like that very rarely go back to the original point once they start flying off the rails. Jerusalem posted:It has been argued that Tony Soprano was an anti-hero, perhaps the first of the modern generation that birthed a renaissance in television drama. But while it is true he was a horrible, monstrous person, never let it be forgotten that the real villain of the piece, at least while Nancy Marchand was alive, was Livia Soprano. One of the most incredible, complex and horrific monsters in television history. We're just getting started on a wild loving ride. Marchand stood out so much to me that I never quite liked the show as much once she died. In hindsight that is very unfair given the amount of excellent work past season 2, but I viewed her as just as important to the show as Tony.
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Mar 12, 2019 04:15
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It was never quite the same once she was gone, as the mother/son dynamic gives it something special that otherwise can't be emulated. But goddamn if Janice didn't give it the old college try when it came to filling that void.
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Mar 12, 2019 04:27
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If Marchand didn't die, how were they going to resolve the Livia testifies against Tony storyline? Has Chase ever said?
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Mar 12, 2019 14:36
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Jerusalem posted:It was never quite the same once she was gone, as the mother/son dynamic gives it something special that otherwise can't be emulated. But goddamn if Janice didn't give it the old college try when it came to filling that void. I do feel like Janice kind of fell by the wayside after season two, although it did pick up again she latched herself onto Bobby.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:43
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It's unfortunate that Aida Turturro never really got much work post-Sopranos, because creating a character that hateable is a true talent. I know a lot of it was in the writing but goddamn she took it to another level. In a show full of people who were getting theirs by exploiting and chewing up the lives of others, somehow Janice still takes the cake. Just a disgusting, worthless person. The only decent thing she did the entire series was killing Richie.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:49
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It's a testament to the show that Janice really seemed to be on the verge of trying to turn her life around and start over but Tony just wouldn't let her. He couldn't stand the thought of her being happy so he picked at her and wore her down until she snapped. Chase just had no qualms about showing how evil the characters were. He wasn't trying to make anyone redeemable.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:41
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Janice laughing about how her mother would spy on the neighbours and then later on she was doing the exact same thing herself. It is pretty incredible that in a show centred on literal Mafioso the most disliked character is Janice.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:03
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escape artist posted:If Marchand didn't die, how were they going to resolve the Livia testifies against Tony storyline? Has Chase ever said? The airplane tickets she got in the season 2 finale were going to play a huge part of the Season 3 plot since they were pretty clear evidence of racketeering and fraud. Tony was going to have to convince his mother not to testify against him and she was going to hold it over him the entire season but I don't remember what the resolution was going to be.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:37
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What this show did so well is showcase how even small, everyday acts can be just loaded with good or ill intent. We see a lot of murders, robberies, lives just completely ruined by violence, but just as impactful were scenes like Janice manipulating Bobby into eating the ziti and prematurely tossing away the memory of his wife, whom he really did love- all so that she can take her place and enjoy a leisurely life of doing nothing and spending someone else's money.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:05
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Midgetskydiver posted:Chase just had no qualms about showing how evil the characters were. He wasn't trying to make anyone redeemable. It's interesting you bring that up as I was recently trying to get through another series about OC in Sons of Anarchy and there it seems almost schizophrenic, jumping back and forth between 'these guys are just scum on Harleys' and 'no, wait, they are noble outlaws.' In The Sopranos, everybody is if not likable at least engaging (mostly) but we don't ever think, I dunno, Johnny Sac's going to turn it around.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:12
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Dawgstar posted:It's interesting you bring that up as I was recently trying to get through another series about OC in Sons of Anarchy and there it seems almost schizophrenic, jumping back and forth between 'these guys are just scum on Harleys' and 'no, wait, they are noble outlaws.' In The Sopranos, everybody is if not likable at least engaging (mostly) but we don't ever think, I dunno, Johnny Sac's going to turn it around. Yea poo poo like that is what happens when the writer/creator of the show has no clear vision and doesn't understand character development. The audience notices when you spend hours and hours building up characters as conflicted good guys, and then jump tracks as soon as it's convenient into having them mass execute people and causing ridiculous amounts of collateral damage to the community. Then when the show is coming to an end you want to have people buy into your sad sack Jesus fantasy, gently caress off Sutter.
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Mar 12, 2019 21:23
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Basebf555 posted:Yea poo poo like that is what happens when the writer/creator of the show has no clear vision and doesn't understand character development. The audience notices when you spend hours and hours building up characters as conflicted good guys, and then jump tracks as soon as it's convenient into having them mass execute people and causing ridiculous amounts of collateral damage to the community. Then when the show is coming to an end you want to have people buy into your sad sack Jesus fantasy, gently caress off Sutter. At one point the Sons walk into a room, kill 3 people including a preacher, then go "whoopsie wrong room" and walk out like it's no big deal. The later attempts for teary eyes remose when having to decide on the fate of another member fall completely flat.
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Mar 13, 2019 05:23
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I'm sure after they killed 3 people including a preacher accidentally, Jax sat on the roof and read his dad's journal and happened to find an entry that started,"Well this one time I accidentally killed 3 people including a preacher, and here's how I came through that okay...." I still say season 2 of that show was excellent. But oooooh boy everything after that was loving madness and I gave up on the last 2-3 seasons entirely.
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Mar 13, 2019 06:12
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Jerusalem posted:I'm sure after they killed 3 people including a preacher accidentally, Jax sat on the roof and read his dad's journal and happened to find an entry that started,"Well this one time I accidentally killed 3 people including a preacher, and here's how I came through that okay...." Season 1 and 2 were really good and worked well because the overall theme was something like Hamlet but meant to evoke a sort of Shakespearean feel. That falls off when then they go to Ireland for whatever reason and Jax finds out he has a half sister. Kurt Sutter wanted to have them gently caress in the show for drama and was apparently talked down from it.
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Mar 13, 2019 07:37
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I liked seasons 1 and 2 a lot because of the whole Hamlet on bikes + Sagal in a very Lady MacBethesque role. The Ireland season was a loving slog and is where the wheels started coming off, 4 was where it really went south imo. I stopped in season 5 and then forced myself to catch up when it ended, just to see for myself how bad it got. Goddamn it was bad. also tbf season 3 was mostly only saved by Stahl being great
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Mar 13, 2019 07:41
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pentyne posted:Season 1 and 2 were really good and worked well because the overall theme was something like Hamlet but meant to evoke a sort of Shakespearean feel. That falls off when then they go to Ireland for whatever reason and Jax finds out he has a half sister. Kurt Sutter wanted to have them gently caress in the show for drama and was apparently talked down from it. Also Adam Arkin and Henry Rollins as the seasons' villains were amazing. Not gonna lie - there was something really, deeply weird to me about Sutter's seeming obsession with mutilating the character he played on the show. Dawgstar fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 13:45
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Yea the Sons as characters only worked when the show was able to put them up against a villain that was strong enough to make you forget how ridiculous it was to be rooting for a sociopathic, ultraviolent criminal gang. A neo-nazi and a corrupt FBI agent are pretty easy solutions to that problem, but after that Sutter wasn't able to find any others that worked nearly as well. Pope never cut it and then after that the show never reappeared again from up its own rear end with all the dumb storylines with Clay and then Jax's mother and the wife and baby oh god it was all so terrible. There was a really funny SA thread that was hatewatching the show and commenting on it in the final seasons and really that's the only reason I watched all those episodes. Anyway in my recent Sopranos rewatch I reached the best line in the entire series. Some of you may be able to guess what it is without even clicking it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAbldmqXrVg Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 14:20
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Dawgstar posted:Also Adam Arkin and Henry Rollins as the seasons' villains were amazing. He really enjoyed being the butt of rape jokes.
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Mar 13, 2019 14:25
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Basebf555 posted:Anyway in my recent Sopranos rewatch I reached the best line in the entire series. Some of you may be able to guess what it is without even clicking it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAbldmqXrVg Expected "GO poo poo IN A HAT" but that works too.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:56
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Thinking about lil' Vito stepping in his own poo poo in the shower room at school. I felt bad for that little dude.
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Mar 13, 2019 19:06
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ruddiger posted:Thinking about lil' Vito stepping in his own poo poo in the shower room at school. I felt bad for that little dude. “You look like a Puerto Rican whore.”
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Mar 13, 2019 19:19
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There are so many "best lines" but the one that always cracks me up is Paulie telling Tony he'll head back to the hotel because he has to "take a wicked poo poo".
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Mar 13, 2019 19:56
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Motherfucking goddamn orange peel beef.
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Mar 13, 2019 20:10
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"loving queers!" *throws chair at ghosts
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Mar 13, 2019 21:07
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I been dreamin of that fuckin lo mein all the way the gently caress over here now WHO CAME IN HERE AND ATE MY poo poo
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Mar 13, 2019 22:15
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