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Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
The Patriots? Does this game not have any sense of decency at all? First cannibalism, slavery and :biotruths: and now this?

Has C2C no shame?!

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Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010

Well I'm glad I found this well of madness, and will be eagerly following along. This is even more insane than RoM2, which I've played but...drat. Just drat.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

"Too paranoid for you?"
"Not me, paranoia's the garlic in life's kitchen, right, you can never have too much."
Oh my God I remember playing this mod years ago and just being overwhelmed. It's still going!?!

I guess I can still say I'm getting in on the ground floor.

Creative and :smugdog:

Hiveminded
Aug 26, 2014
Industrious and :smugdog:

More production = more poo poo to show off, also smh if you don't want to see global warming gently caress everything up and our citizens turn into poisoned mutants

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
The hell is up with those building icons next to Wet Nurse's Hut?

Bound naked woman and Summer Get-away Promotional Image

Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007

The naked lady is Harems, which gives happiness and gold but also spreads disease. The hot tub is the concept of bathing, which reduces disease and increases health.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

Xenoborg posted:

The naked lady is Harems, which gives happiness and gold but also spreads disease. The hot tub is the concept of bathing, which reduces disease and increases health.

My lord we have discovered cleaning poo poo OFF of our selves is good!

AMAZING WORK SCIENTIST!

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.
The harems building icon also has the most comically bad censoring I've ever seen.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
Didn't even notice the harem icon, and I guess it's for the best. But just having the building in the game does exemplify what I really don't like in these kinds of mods, though. I dunno if there's an actual name for it, but I like to call it the kitchen sink approach, i.e. you throw literally everything you can possibly think of into the thing even when there's no reason to.

That's how you end up with a bazillion buildings and a bunch of subsystems that model poo poo that really should be abstracted, such as crime or education level, and you generally end up with this bloated mess of micromanagement that just drags out the game into utter tedium.

General Revil
Sep 30, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Cerebral Bore posted:

That's how you end up with a bazillion buildings and a bunch of subsystems that model poo poo that really should be abstracted, such as crime or education level, and you generally end up with this bloated mess of micromanagement that just drags out the game into utter tedium.

I'll just say that this is the very reason why the original MoO is my favorite 4x.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

General Revil posted:

I'll just say that this is the very reason why the original MoO is my favorite 4x.

MoO 2 is clearly superior as it is the first one I played.

Thunderclan
Dec 24, 2013
I actually think that is one of the best things about this mod, even though it has been a few years since I last played it and didn;t get far when I did since my computer couldn;t handle it. This piles of buildings and resources adds so much more strategy and need for planning to the game. And to be fair, they could have gone even crazier and more expansive then they did.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
I seriously gotta disagree here. A lot of the extra stuff thrown in here doesn't actually seem to alter the strategic calculus that much, it mostly seems like the modders just yank up the unhappiness and unhealthiness levels and then make you go through a bunch of busywork building stuff to mitigate that. Stuff like that is entirely superfluous and only drags things out for no real reason.

Prav
Oct 29, 2011

i feel like caveman2cosmos is getting criticized for achieving its goals here

like yeah it's a bloated mess. that's the point

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Prav posted:

i feel like caveman2cosmos is getting criticized for achieving its goals here

like yeah it's a bloated mess. that's the point

It’s not really an intuitive bloated mess though. The civlopedia taking many seconds to load and the sluggish computer turns make what is already a long experience much longer, as well. I played a few hours of C2C just to enhance the thread experience for myself, and my chief complaints are opaque mechanics, cluttered UI and turn length.

C2C really just needs to drop Civ and start with a clean, modern slate. Simple, layered sprites could help speed along custom art needs (you make a naked pixel man, throw in some color variants and then make a sling sprite, spear sprite, hair sprite, laser bazooka sprite, etc.). You have open source music and art you can lean on, as well. The game is already road mapped out and settled mechanics-wise and even has a functioning prototype. Really somebody just needs to do a kickstarter or patreon to pay a few dudes to work part-time on it for a couple years.

I think setting up a nested tooltip system, like in this game, would be the killer feature.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

I don't think the goal of the mod is to be a "bloated mess" more than it is to just be a supercharged historical simulation using Civ 4 as a base which over the years has gone horribly out of control in the worst best way possible. I said all of this from the getgo and even told you guys to definitely not play this for yourself unless you really wanted to see for yourself what I've gotten myself into, so you have no one to blame but yourselves! :v:

The fact that there's still an extremely active and passionate set of devs still trucking along at stabilizing this mess and even adding to it is downright amazing to me. This is the kind of thing that should have died to feature creep and irreconcilable engine limitations 5 years ago but if anything is just getting bigger with each passing month. Heck, just yesterday one of the primary active devs released a major new sweeping feature called "Complex Traits" where developing traits have been completely reworked and re-balanced from the ground up and where each individual trait "upgrades" itself as you progress through the game rather than conferring its benefits all at once.

Now just to say in advance, we're not going to be seeing any of this because it's currently locked behind a start-of-game option and would really just mess up our current game anyway if it were active. But it's just another example that I'm not dealing with a finished product over here and that things can get even more insane over the course of this LP if it stretches long enough. And hopefully if my save game doesn't stop being compatible with updates.

Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Mar 12, 2019

really queer Christmas
Apr 22, 2014

I've played c2c in the past and it's always just led to me stopping sometime before hitting gunpowder because of long turn times or me just being so far ahead of the ai it's a joke, but thanks to the thread I did try realism invictus and it's good! Kinda shocking considering most mods with realism in the name are awful but it does what c2c does just so much better.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

C2C Gameplay Chapter 7: Here Lies Boksi. He Never Scored




So the thread has chosen Creative and Megalomaniac as our next traits. Creative's already been covered, so we'll take a quick look at our first Negative trait. Negative traits on average have less effects than the Positive ones, so they aren't a giant wall of text, but still usually have a large impact. For this vote I deliberately picked one trait that would be bad for us, one that would good, and one that's mostly neutral. Surprisingly, you all managed to pick the best option :smugdog:

Megalomaniac gives a pretty substantial yield bonus to our capital, which is pretty great in this era when our capital is doing most of the heavy lifting. The unhappiness is negligible as is the Anarchy time, but the increased upkeep can actually get quite bad later on as we carpet the map in new cities. Though that won't mean much right now while our empire is small.



The biggest problem with picking Megalomaniac right now is the -2 diplomatic penalty. Not that anyone is truly capable of attacking us this early on, but having the entire rest of the world hate us is not good for diplomacy.



Meanwhile, at the end of the last update we were single-digit experience away from our next military great person. We get another Great Hunter, this time a literal Greek God. I could make another Master Hunter out of him but I decide to keep him in reserve, probably for a Golden Age down the line.



Creative gives us a nice immediate boost to our culture. The bottom of that tool-tip lists all constructable buildings that increase our culture (other yield tool-tips in cities have similar lists) so it's not like we didn't have options for increasing our culture if we went another route, but much of them hold little use besides their culture generation. We'll see the benefits of Creative more when we start settling cities.



Since Dido seems to have her Crime under control I decide to step off the city and use my invisibility to explore the rest of her territory. That weird structure two tiles above the city is a Polar Outcrop, which has useless yields but does allow for certain special buildings. And I think some Housing options too.




Axe Making comes in which gives us access to the Stone Axeman. The main difference between the Stone Axeman and Stone Maceman is that the Axeman is slightly more expensive and has a 50% bonus vs Melee units as opposed to 25% Melee and 10% City Attack from the Maceman. Naturally, I'll be turning our Spiked Clubman into an Axeman.



Oh yeah, forgot to mention that Criminal units can pillage improvements too. And do so without being revealed too! I could go and pillage the territory of all my enemies, but I'd rather the AI actually put up a fight in this game so I refrain from doing so as a general rule unless there's some strategic benefit.



Counting allows us to build(?) basic children's games like Hopscotch and Counting Sticks for some reason? Not particularly useful otherwise.



Oh hey, it turns out I don't have enough gold to upgrade my unit! That's pretty unfortunate. We have managed to reach positive gold income again but not nearly enough to cover all the upgrades we're gonna need in the near future.



This it's time to bite the bullet and just run the science slider at 0% for a while. Our myths are doing the heavy lifting as far as science generation goes, so it's not all bad, but it's still a roughly 20-25% reduction of our teching power while the slider is down.



The next turn we have our brand new shiny Axeman, now ready with his Hillsman promotion to roam the countryside searching for barbarians to bring to heel. :getin:



Should also mention that the initial Tribal Guardian we started with can in fact be upgraded to an Enforcer. It's an expensive upgrade but could be useful nonetheless in lieu of building another one when necessary.

It was also around this time looking at my screenshots when I realized my screenshots for this session didn't capture my cursor at all, which is strange. I didn't change any ShareX settings or Civ 4 settings and I double checked to ensure that the cursor showed in previous updates, so I'm gonna have to look into this and see what went wrong. Apologies in advance if something in these images isn't entirely clear without having the thing explicitly pointing out what I'm looking at.



Anywho, with a couple more buildings up I decide to make our Poison Crafter's Hut, which requires the Poison we acquired from our Snake Pit last update. Aside from the gold and slight Pollution increase, it gives all of our infantry-style combat units the Poison Tips promotion, as well as opens access to the Ambushers I was talking about.



Nah, only one singular number rules the universe. You know the one.



Personal Adornments is a good tech to have. I mean look at it. We get to make hats! HATS!!



China belatedly gets in on the Trait train, choosing to become Agricultural and Idealistic. Neither of which are all that useful right now.



Wait, what's this?

How did Carthage manage to attack an invisible unit? :confused:



Aha, I see now.

So at this stage of the game invisible units can be pretty powerful. After all, you can't hurt what you can't see no matter how weak they are. It turns out though that most Criminal units, in addition to being invisible, also have the ability to see other invisible units. So Carthage built a Thief, and that Thief provides vision on our Thief allowing Carthage to use her actual good units to attack into me. I withdraw from the first battle, but I will not survive the second, sadly. It's fine though, I'll just build another and send it on its way.



I take the opportunity to capture a Gatherer for kicks, which somehow confers Looter/Marauder bonuses. I guess capturing a Gatherer technically counts as a combat victory.



In other news, I sometimes get an event where a unit just decides to sit and do nothing for a turn. It's ultimately pointless but I find them amusing nonetheless. Our Tracker 5 should have a better sense of direction :downs:

We also see why I picked Hillsman on my Axeman over Might, as I can easily attack that Barbarian Stone Thrower two tiles away by moving over the forested hill.



...which grants us a Captive (Military) :woop:

With all our bonuses and penalties added up our current capture rate is actually quite bad, and in fact I had been killing tons of barbs up to this point without getting a single captive for my troubles. The two I did get were from Barbarians killing units themselves, one of said units being my own. So this is actually our first legitimate capture!



Ha, I found this too amusing not to share. I suppose if you squint hard enough you could see the connection between unicorn legends and rhinos. I use it for a regular boring Rhino myth right now of course, but I appreciate the option.



Here's a quick look at our Ambusher. It has much of the same attributes as our Thief, but has better killing power and is a 2 mover that ignored terrain cost, which is a massive boon. It also starts with Sentry I which makes it easy to see if there are stray non-animal units we can sneak up on.

Naturally, I build all three of these immediately.



Two turns after my first Captive, I get a SECOND Captive from a barb kill. :shittypop: Luck is most certainly on my side today.



The revealed resources here are manufactured resources that themselves provide small bonuses to other buildings. I'd love to build a hat shop but without Cloth, Leather, or Furs we're out of luck there.

It occurs to me while writing this that I might be able to get Furs since I technically have Beavers online, but I'll have to look at that more closely when I play further.



That's not important though. What's important is that this tech lets us build the Jewelry Store. This is one of the first examples of a powerful building that becomes more powerful if you can get all the matching manufactured resources. Getting them all gives up to a 20% gold bonus, which is quite nice. A Civ 4 BTS Market gives 25% itself, by comparison. And even without those resources we still get +4 flat gold and the Jewelry resource which can be used for other things later on. All of this is well worth the +5 Crime. Do note however that this and other similar buildings will usually have a city size requirement. In this case, we can't even build it until we reach size 6 in our capital.

This is also the reason I wanted Ivory, since you still need at least one of these resources to actually build the building. Though as we'll see, the Ivory wasn't strictly necessary it turns out.



Our Axeman reaches Level 5 experience and now I give him Might. Combined with the merge HP bonus, this makes our Axeman a 7.5 strength unit, easily stronger than any barbarian I can run into at this point in time, and only really losing to stronger merged animal groups.



Bead Making lets us make beads. I'm not sure what else to say.



Poison Tips is in the Basic Promotions update from last time, but for those who skipped it here it is. It gives a flat 25% to pretty much every relevant unit type from this Era at the cost of -15% capture chance (cause, you know, poison kind of kills people sometimes :black101: ). Though this doesn't matter for Ambushers since they have a natural +15% capture chance (something I didn't show), nullifying that penalty.



Naturally, Carthage has a Scout sitting right outside our borders that'll serve as ample demonstration of the power of our invisible Strike Team of destruction. :hist101:



...Or it would be, if the dang thing would just sit still and stop running away :argh:



That's more like it.

Dealing with natural withdrawal can be a pain sometimes.

By the way, this specific Heracles is evidently not the same Heracles/Hercules of popular Greek lore, but is in fact the Macedonian version wherein he's still the son of Zeus but also just a patron god of Hunting as opposed to all the other stuff he's known for later on.



Ambushers may be strong, but they still gotta deal with stacking combat bonuses just like everyone else. At least the Slinger can't attack back.



Our Thief in Paris is cause all sorts of ruckus and Joan of Arc seems entirely unprepared to deal with it.



If I cared more, I'd take a closer look at how the devs decided which techs would unlock which Cultures. Other than that, the Beadmaker's Hut is a building we want for sure.



Oh hey, that Slinger parked on a forest decided to graciously move onto terrible flat desert instead, how nice of him.



And we get another captive out of it :aaaaa:

I swear I'm not staging these, I just set up to point out the major defensive malus the Slinger put himself in (almost assuredly cause he couldn't actually see our unit) and then I make the attack and a captive appears.



This is convenient too, as it lets me show off the Bounty Hunter promotion line. As I mentioned before, Bounty Hunter actually gives land units Cargo space which can be used to transport other types of units. The transport system is pretty complex (and kind of buggy) in this mod, so to keep it short this particular promotion allows our unit to carry all Captive-style units, but also locks him into this type of transport, which means other promotions that allow other types of transport will no longer be available. Transporting is especially useful here because Ambushers are invisible but captives are not, so they're actually out and open to attack from anything so long as they aren't in transport.



And yes, loading in and out works just as it does in regular Civ 4, just on land.



Now I said the promotion gives cargo space, but it's not entirely clear what that means. Because of the merging and size mechanics, different units have different "Cargo Volume" values, which dictates how much space they take up. Transport units also have a maximum Cargo space, so you have to mouseover units to tell how much space they take up to ensure that they fit. Our Ambusher has a cargo capacity of 44 while a military captive takes up 33. In practice this means we can only carry 1 captive unit at a time while having Bounty Hunter I. Getting Bounty Hunter II and III would increase that to 2 and 4 units respectively if you do the math (each giving +44 cargo space), so if you want to make heavy use of capturing you want to grab all three Bounty Hunter promotions as soon as possible, and I plan on doing so.

Or I would be if the dang thing weren't bugged. :argh: I can't actually get the second or third tier promotions and this is confirmed to be a bug by the dev himself so I guess I'll just deal with it for now and hope it gets fixed in the near future.



Barter is a big tech. More gold, more potential commerce, our next wave of map resource reveals, a new Civic, and a bunch of new units. The Barter Post is an automatic building that shows up when a city becomes big enough that provides extra gold but also extra crime. It's also a prerequisite of some other buildings.



Here's the Beadmaker's Hut, which provides Beads and has a lot of the same bonus requirements as the Jewelry Store. The Beads also would have allowed me to build the Jewelry Store had I not been able to acquire Ivory, so that's a neat thing too.



..What the heck is a Spotted Cuscus?

Wikipedia posted:

The common spotted cuscus (Spilocuscus maculatus) is a cuscus, a marsupial that lives in the Cape York region of Australia, New Guinea, and nearby smaller islands.

Oh, okay, Australia, nothing to see here. You Aussies and your weird possibly-life-threatening wildlife.



Hattusas reaches size 6, which means another tile to work, but also more Crime and Disease and Education reduction and the need for more control units!



Barter gives us our first look at Trader units. The Early Merchant can be sent to foreign cities for gold missions while the Early Food Merchant can be sent to your own cities to rush food production, essentially allowing you to convert the hammers in one city to food in another city. Both are useful types of units, though these super early ones are probably not worth dealing with as they're slow and need to be escorted anyway.

Oh and no, we have no gold, silver, or amber in our capital because of course we don't. :geno:



Oh right, Barter also gives us the first upgrade to our Criminal units, the Rogue. The Rogue has several similar qualities to the Ambusher in that it's a 2-mover and ignored terrain costs. It's not as good at fighting and is still much better off doing criminal shenanigans in other cities, but at least now has the mobility to travel to distant places properly.

Criminal units also have the benefit of being able to upgrade anywhere that isn't an enemy city, so I don't even need to move my current Thieves (one of which was just built and is in transit to Carthage) to do the upgrade. I do need money though, which means more 0% science.



Gotta love being able to just roll straight through forests.



Heat Treatment does a whole lot of nothing for us, though the Ironwood Clubman is a pretty good Mapuche unit, never mind that you can't even get Mapuche until the Ancient Era.



That's a fourth captive in this update alone. :lol:



Oh yeah, Bartering is a Civic that came with Barter and is entirely unremarkable. It's almost identical to Subsistence except with slightly different trade route yields and +5% hammers instead of +1%. It even enables the same buildings.




The Ikhanda (which is NOT a Zulu-exclusive thing for some reason) is built by one of the two remaining unknown AIs. It's obscenely expensive (for us, not the AI) and has a pretty great experience boosting effect that lasts all the way to the Renaissance era so it would've been nice to have. Considering we don't even have the tech for it yet though, seems like whichever AI built this is doing quite well for itself.



Wait what?



Noooooooooooooooooooooooo not Boksi. :cry:

I swear I wasn't planning on him dying, I legitimately made a mistake where I thought there was only one Neanderthal Warrior next to him where I moved but there ended up being two. Being strength 4, Boksi easily survived against the first Strength 4 Warrior with all the defensive bonuses but was a bit too banged up to survive the second combat. A crushing loss for our Empire, but as the hunter that explored the deepest reaches of the East and brought many new and exotic creatures from the Northern ice, he will be remembered as a hero :patriot:



Joan of Arc is the last to of our known enemies to get a second trait. Seafaring is actually pretty good and can certainly be a choice down the line if I want to do a Coastal focused game, but that's neither here nor there.



Oh right I forgot, no Gold or anything in our borders, but there is a Silver node down South in a pretty fertile area with Grapes and Cotton. Getting precious metals opens a lot of options so I definitely want to secure that spot sooner rather than later.



I couldn't even build a Branding Hut even if I wanted to since I haven't built a Fire Pit, but all it does anyway is give 1 culture and 1 health.



Spear Making gives an upgrade to our Spearmen that we don't have and won't have in the near future. More gold for our Stone Tool Maker at least.



Shamanism, the second Prehistoric religion, is founded in a distant land by one of the unknown AIs.



Shamanism is actually pretty easy to rush and I could have gone there immediately at any point after getting Adhesives and Binding just by prioritizing Personal Adornments and a couple other techs, so it's hard to tell what this says about this Civ's technological progress compared to my own.



I manage to upgrade my Thief at France to a Rogue and plant it on the capital. I could leave it there and jack up Paris's crime even further, but I'd rather do something else.



The money we get from the "Trade Mission" actually starts being kinda substantial at this point, so I can certainly choose this option.



Instead, I opt for the Espionage points. Rogues collect 400 espionage as opposed to the Thief's 200, so we get enough Espionage in Paris to be able to see exactly what she's doing in her city.



Completing the mission sends the unit back to our capital much like a BTS spy. We definitely don't want to keep it there though or else it'll start jacking up our crime instead.



The return trip to France is significantly faster now with 2 tiles per move through any terrain. Shame I can't give my Criminal units any of the Quick March Statuses to get their movement even higher.



I do the same Espionage gathering with my Rogue in Carthage and oh wow that's a lot of gold. Makes sense given this is the AI and they're a bunch of dirty cheaters but it's still quite a lot. Sadly I won't get the chance to see much more as in a couple of turns Dido puts enough Espionage on me to prevent me from seeing what her capital is doing, at least not without sending my Rogue there again.



Carthage also has almost every single building possible already done, which is likely why she's doing Lesser Research.



It also has a good assortment of myths, though not nearly to the extent I do. This is good to see, as I had seen reports that the AI doesn't bother hunting properly and won't get the stuff it needs to stay competitive in science through Prehistory. At least in Carthage's case, they seem to be doing just fine.



France on the other hand, not so much. Man look at the Crime, maybe I should have stayed there a while longer and seen how high it could really go. Paris has a good assortment of buildings but not nearly as many as Carthage.



Okay, so that third unit icon is what's called a Mapinguari (Stone Spearman), which I had initially dismissed as a Culture-specific unit, except I was compelled to look closer because the naming convention didn't make sense for that. It turns out that it is not a Cultural combat unit but is in fact an animal-assisted unit, of sorts. In order to be built the city needs to have a Mapinguari Compound which is a special building that can only be built by one unit, the Subdued Ground Sloth, a subdued animal that I wasn't even sure how to get since I didn't see any equivalent wild animal at first glance. So digging further, the actual animal in question is the Megatherium, which is a Prehistoric ground sloth of which Wikipedia remarks:

Wikipedia posted:

Megatherium is one of the largest land mammals known to have existed, weighing up to 4 tonnes[11] and measuring up to 6 m (20 ft) in length from head to tail.[12][13] It is the largest-known ground sloth, as big as modern elephants, and would have only been exceeded in its time by a few species of mammoth. The group is known primarily from its largest species, M. americanum. Megatherium species were members of the abundant Pleistocene megafauna, large mammals that lived during the Pleistocene epoch.

It had a robust skeleton with a large pelvic girdle and a broad muscular tail. Its large size enabled it to feed at heights unreachable by other contemporary herbivores. Rising on its powerful hind legs and using its tail to form a tripod, Megatherium could support its massive body weight while using the curved claws on its long forelegs to pull down branches with the choicest leaves. This sloth, like a modern anteater, walked on the sides of its feet because its claws prevented it from putting them flat on the ground. Although it was primarily a quadruped, its trackways show that it was capable of bipedal locomotion. Biomechanical analysis also suggests it had adaptations to bipedalism.[14]

I couldn't even begin to tell you where this animal would spawn in-game, cause I sure as heck haven't seen it.

The Mapinguari, incidentally, is a large sloth-like beast of South American folklore that supposedly lived in the Amazon rain forests and is pseudoscientifically linked to the Megatherium. The special characteristics of the Mapinguari (Stone Spearman) are that it has a straight +100% defense against everything (reduced to +20% in cities) while having a -50% attack penalty against everything, making it ideal as a powerful and hard to dislodge stack defender. So what we have here is a giant elephant-sized sloth being used as defensive mounted infantry for prehistoric cavemen.

But wait, it doesn't stop there. This unit is upgradable, and can eventually become the Mapinguari (Pikeman) a unit that becomes available during the Classical Era, where it serves the same function being a big, lumbering stack defender meant to tank shots and never die. This, sadly, is the last we see of the Mapinguari line of units. But wait, it goes one step further, because when you reach Gunpowder, if you still have these Mapinguari Pikemen lying around you can use them in a city to create the Mapinguari Changing of the Guard Ceremony, a special building that gives reduced war weariness and +5 Tourism in the city per turn and is described by the Civlopedia as, and I quote, "A fictional military cerimony.[sic]"

So why am I saying all this about a unit I can't even use and probably won't use? Because I wanted to reiterate once again that this mod is insane, and it does not let up from here, not by a long shot.



Back to slightly less insane things, Warfare does surprisingly little in terms of actually giving us tools for, you know, warfare. Actually I shouldn't say that because it gives us our first Siege unit and some pretty sweet promotions but still, not even a new Melee unit?



With the buildings and units I was aiming for done, I use this opportunity to build the Microlith Workshop since I plan on making more units soon to roam around and hope for captures. +25% military production is good as I've said before, so it'll pay itself back fairly quickly.



Meanwhile I've been chasing this Scout for like 5 turns now and it's managed to withdraw from my Ambusher each time somehow and I'm getting sick of it. I really should just let it be and look for other stuff to kill but dang it it's the principle of the thing :argh:



Joan is building LL Blackwater Draw in Paris, belatedly getting into the Legendary Landscapes game.



My Tracker defends against a wandering Exile, reminding me that I'm not the only one with invisible units and that I need to be wary of any that try to do anything against me. I've been keeping one of my Ambushers close to home for this very reason, as it can see invisible units like other criminal units can.



Finally got you you little brat :getin:



This was the tech requirement for Ikhanda, by the way, which is the wonder icon with the star shown here. The tech also opens up a bunch of Cultures (among which Zulu is one) that we can't get because of course we're not allowed to have fun :mad:

Anywho, I've done a lot of capturing and I've just been hoarding my captives in my capital this whole time. I could surely keep saving them and use them to mass-build an appropriate wonder I get access to, or even use them for instant military since they can actually promote to decent units now. But no, as I implied when we were talking about Cannibalism, they can be used for something else. Something which the developers of this mod put a surprisingly (and disconcertingly) large amount of effort into.



Yep, it's time to rip off that band-aid. And spoiler alert, I'm not skipping this Worldview because in C2C, as was true in real life for most of human history, Slavery is very profitable. :suicide:

----------------------

NEXT TIME: At least we aren't working our captives to death building our 295th statue of ourselves? :shrug:

IMPORTANT: I will be out of town this weekend, so I won't be working on the LP during this time. I hope to still have an update ready around this time next week but I may either hold it off if it's not ready or go with a more abbreviated update focused on going over the Slavery mechanics, I'm not sure.

Super Jay Mann fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Mar 13, 2019

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

quote:

Mapinguari Changing of the Guard Ceremony

If something that big managed to hang around that long, wouldn't it be a complement or even replacement for tanks? Or are we presuming it shrunk over the generations?

Still, my only point was 'they tried to think of what would happen if this thing lived and continued living' which is honestly a nice touch.

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

Bloodly posted:

If something that big managed to hang around that long, wouldn't it be a complement or even replacement for tanks? Or are we presuming it shrunk over the generations?

Still, my only point was 'they tried to think of what would happen if this thing lived and continued living' which is honestly a nice touch.

No, for basically the same reason elephants in warfare generally fell out of favor.

Boksi
Jan 11, 2016
:zombie:

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:
Man, the more I look at this, the more I realize that I just sort of opportunistically bungled my way to dominance over the AI in my game rather than having any sort of coherent plan for it. Glad to see you're actually managing to use espionage and the criminal units as intended.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Mar 13, 2019

General Revil
Sep 30, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Super Jay Mann posted:

This is also the reason I wanted Ivory, since you still need at least one of these resources to actually build the building. Those as we'll see, the Ivory wasn't strictly necessary it turns out.

You've got a typo there.

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013
The rhino=unicorn thing isn't a thing the mod made up by the way. Unicorns and their association as a misinterpretation of rhinoceros by people who've never met them is a very old and heavily debated thing, with the other major possibility for what they actually were being aurochs, of all things.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

General Revil posted:

You've got a typo there.

Thanks, editing these updates can be a pain in the neck some-- scratch that-- most times.

WhitemageofDOOM
Sep 13, 2010

... It's magic. I ain't gotta explain shit.
How long have you been playing? Because so far it feels like these updates could be summarized as "A fat load of nothing happens".


Also all the things like education and health, feel so tacked on to the CIV4 game, when they feel like they should just be a game of their own.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe

Super Jay Mann posted:

I don't think the goal of the mod is to be a "bloated mess" more than it is to just be a supercharged historical simulation using Civ 4 as a base which over the years has gone horribly out of control in the worst best way possible. I said all of this from the getgo and even told you guys to definitely not play this for yourself unless you really wanted to see for yourself what I've gotten myself into, so you have no one to blame but yourselves! :v:

Don't get me wrong, it's cool to follow along with the insanity, I just wouldn't like playing this myself at all. So thanks for fulfilling the mission statement of this here subforum.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

WhitemageofDOOM posted:

How long have you been playing? Because so far it feels like these updates could be summarized as "A fat load of nothing happens".

Nah, you're not far off. The big issue is that it takes a long time for us to be allowed to get any new cities (we're almost there though, I promise!) and one of the more fun elements of the mod, mixing and matching unique cultural units/buildings and such, is largely absent for us right now because there aren't really any Middle Eastern cultures available in Prehistoric Era.

With that said, the combined playtime of both this game and my test game (which has actually diverged quite a bit from the main game as far as tech path and general strategy goes) is between half a day and a day at most which is nothing in terms of Civ 4, for me anyway. It honestly takes quite a lot more work to get the screenshots organized and the updates written and edited than it does to actually play the game.

Angry Salami
Jul 27, 2013

Don't trust the skull.

NewMars posted:

The rhino=unicorn thing isn't a thing the mod made up by the way. Unicorns and their association as a misinterpretation of rhinoceros by people who've never met them is a very old and heavily debated thing, with the other major possibility for what they actually were being aurochs, of all things.

Marco Polo, for example, describes 'unicorns' that he saw in his travels that are quite obviously rhinos. He seems somewhat disappointed by them.

Ralepozozaxe
Sep 6, 2010

A Veritable Smorgasbord!
Beadmaker

Obsoleted by

Androids

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:
Only truly human robots can understand what it means to make beads better than a traditional craftsman.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Do androids dream of electric beads?

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER
Playing through the game, I find it hilarious that one of the buildings that never goes obsolete is... the basket maker :allears:

General Revil
Sep 30, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

CommissarMega posted:

Playing through the game, I find it hilarious that one of the buildings that never goes obsolete is... the basket maker :allears:

You'll always have people majoring in underwater basket weaving.

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010


Fun Shoe
Transhuman cyborgs weaving baskets from the finest unobtainium alloys.

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

by Azathoth
baskets are useful, environmentally friendly, and stylish. :colbert:

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

It kinda looks like the unicorn myth is also permanent, which is nice.

Are there other myths like that? Can you get vampires

King Doom
Dec 1, 2004
I am on the Internet.
Unicorns, phoenix from either hawks or eagles and I wanna say one more?

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:

King Doom posted:

Unicorns, phoenix from either hawks or eagles and I wanna say one more?

Dragons from various big scaly lizards.

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Xenoborg
Mar 10, 2007

Karkens from squids.

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