|
Destroyers have such a huge power spike when you first unlock them though, they easily take on 3 corvettes each and even just 20 corvettes and 5 destroyers will easily wreck an equivalent corvette fleet in the early game with hardly any losses. Also put auxillary targeting CPU's on your cruisers.
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 11:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
Yeah destroyers in the context of a domination focus is what owns about them. Take the Supremecy opener, and if you can supplement a fleet of ~12+ Corvettes you can usually steamroll non advanced start neighbors.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 11:55
|
|
|
I was looking for an old post and I found someone talking about a mod which started you with destroyers rather than corvettes. So you could research bigger or smaller. I thought that was a neat idea.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 12:00
|
|
|
Speaking of task forces, that does make me wonder what as good standard is for force composition! I've heard of the old 1:2:3 for Battleship, Destroyer/Cruiser, Corvette but I don't know if that's a bit antiquated post 2.0 now; considering some people make anti station/fast fleets nowadays? Generally though, is a 1:2 ratio a safe bet in general?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 12:16
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:Speaking of task forces, that does make me wonder what as good standard is for force composition! I've heard of the old 1:2:3 for Battleship, Destroyer/Cruiser, Corvette but I don't know if that's a bit antiquated post 2.0 now; considering some people make anti station/fast fleets nowadays? Generally though, is a 1:2 ratio a safe bet in general? 20:21:22:23 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 12:22
|
|
|
If you're doing psionics destroyers are definitely stupid good, because you can push up to 90% evasion on them later on. Early on, destroyers are often good to start using when you can. Even if you're doing a big missile build, putting some brawlers in there that you later can convert to front liners for your cruisers is really good. The wiki is really good when you're considering future options: https://stellaris.paradoxwikis.com/Ship_designer The other site that is really useful is the tech tree here: https://turanar.github.io/stellaris-tech-tree/vanilla/#top Click on a tech box to get weight modifiers. The only thing it doesn't handle well is showing techs that rely on something from another tree. Destroyers (and cruisers) have a notable advantage over corvettes: much better disengage chance. This combined with more hull means you're much more likely to have destroyers disengage instead of getting destroyed. Early on this is a lot of alloys, and also you save on war exhaustion. If you don't have the +100 corvette hull tech, destroyers will have more hull per CP. If you get the destroyer +hull tech before getting the (rare) 2nd corvette hp tech, you'll again have better hull per CP with destroyers. Destroyers have the same number of shield+armor slots per CP as corvettes, but since they're stacked on 1 ship they're more effective considering some nitty gritty stuff. If you're not using missiles, destroyers also have a really big early advantage over pure corvettes: large weapon slots perform far better against starbases than small weapons. Medium weapons are a decent compromise as well, putting out solid damage while still hitting corvettes quite well (use lasers in the medium slots and not kinetics, they're much more accurate for when you're fighting against corvettes). I've found that something along the lines of 30 corvettes (5 picket, 25 offensive) and 5 destroyers is a decent core after finishing up supremacy (which gives you a fleet size of 40). With the first +naval cap tech and a small investment in anchorages/strongholds you can field 2 of these (80 ships), and expand them out with another 5 destroyers as you get the +fleet cap (so 30:10 for size 50 fleets). If you run into a marauder clan, remember that you can hire admirals from them that are really loving good (they start at like level 3, and have a special +10% speed/fire rate trait). After that you'll probably be wanting to build a cruiser or battleship based fleet in addition to these, or rebuild them into one pure corvette fast response fleet and take the destroyers as a screen for your new fleet. The main key for fighting the AI remains staying on top of your fleet cap and taking supremacy before you're planning on fighting (on GA it is always my 2nd tree). Leverage border forts, make sure to put the -disengage chance building on them to inflict more losses on the enemy fighting you at them, don't bother much with defensive platforms unless you roll leader agendas really pushing down the cost.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 12:38
|
|
|
Found another weird thing in the beta patch, no mods- one AI empire is building tons of nanite transmuters, like 3 per planet, despite not having any access to nanites that I can find. The l-gates aren't open yet, and I've taken all his territory and didn't find any other sources.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 13:20
|
|
|
Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Found another weird thing in the beta patch, no mods- one AI empire is building tons of nanite transmuters, like 3 per planet, despite not having any access to nanites that I can find. The l-gates aren't open yet, and I've taken all his territory and didn't find any other sources. You can get the tech from the Caravaneers (not sure if the AI can, though), but building them without access to nanites is... less than smart. Unless the AI has free upkeep, in which case it is very smart.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 13:26
|
|
|
Electro-Boogie Jack posted:Found another weird thing in the beta patch, no mods- one AI empire is building tons of nanite transmuters, like 3 per planet, despite not having any access to nanites that I can find. The l-gates aren't open yet, and I've taken all his territory and didn't find any other sources. Its an older bug, but it checks out. Saw someone thinking it might be accidently granted by one of the l-insight techs (or maybe a caravanneer instead of a different tech). They had no upkeep on them either. edit: goddamn just got rolled hard by a devouring swarm on GA. I'm hoping he was an advanced start, but ~60 years in and he moved in with over 150 fleet cap and t4 weapons/armor. 17k fleet power or something, my 112 fleet cap with worse tech was only around 10k, and even with a fortress I didn't have enough muscle. I'm not sure when he had a huge tech sprint, but it was interesting to see tech at overwhelming and not the others. Oh yea he has 3rd civic unlocked too, haha. Guess that'll teach me to have a v.strong charismatic devouring swarm in my empire list. ZypherIM fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Mar 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 13:26
|
|
|
I fixed nanite buildings being spamed already, but in the live verion there's no penalty for spamming the buildings without any nanities as they don't actually require them to run 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 14:16
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:I fixed nanite buildings being spamed already, but in the live verion there's no penalty for spamming the buildings without any nanities as they don't actually require them to run Does that also work for humans? I might need to build a bunch of those. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 14:22
|
|
|
prefect posted:Does that also work for humans? I might need to build a bunch of those. Sadly, no, as I discovered after taking over a planet with several.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 14:26
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Its an older bug, but it checks out. Saw someone thinking it might be accidently granted by one of the l-insight techs (or maybe a caravanneer instead of a different tech). They had no upkeep on them either.  I barely faced down/held off a non-advanced start (because I have Advanced Starts turned off) Devouring Swarm on Commodore. It was at Overwhelming fleet power and Superior tech for the longest time. Now its right around 2300 and I am up to being equal on fleet power and Econ but still behind on tech. Its anecdotal obviously but I bet on GA that may have been a not-advanced start Devouring Swarm... My Devouring Swarm ate a huge and powerful Fanatic Purifier in one war.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 14:46
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:
Yea it is entirely possible it wasn't advanced and just ate someone. In the past the AI hasn't been able to keep up in tech at all, that game I wasn't really teching but was still able to be holding my own against the other AIs. I wasn't pushing hard to keep up on fleet stuff since I was handling my other neighbor, I'll just have to remember to push even harder against genocidals in the new patch. Charismatic + v.strong and -amenity usage is really strong for hives though, and he took +15% naval cap for third civic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 14:53
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:If you're doing psionics destroyers are definitely stupid good, because you can push up to 90% evasion on them later on. Yeah i'm a huge fan of artillery destroyers, they really make it less painful taking starbases early, and they're *fairly* safe in combat
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:08
|
|
|
To me anyways the most important aspect of a fleet is how fast it can get where it needs to be. That 25k fleet is worthless if it's not where you need it, and I rather have a 25k fleet that can be at the key battle than a 25k fleet that an excel spreadsheet says is 12% more effective or 8% more resource efficient. When my empires get bigger and bigger, travel times become more and more important. Gates help but they're expensive and slow to build. Corvette and destroyer swarms can get to the battle fast and get replaced fast. If you're a rich empire, their losses or sub-optimal minmaxing isn't a huge concern.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Are there any meaningful differences between Hive Worlds, Machine Worlds, and Ecumenopolises?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:10
|
|
|
Even in 2.2.4 I found Gestalts were much better at tech rushing than regular bios, not sure why.AnEdgelord posted:Are there any meaningful differences between Hive Worlds, Machine Worlds, and Ecumenopolises? Hive and Machine Worlds are basically the same, with the exception that you can't grow food on a Machine World. Ecumenopoli are a different beast though, in that their districts provide jobs to refine materials into Consumer Goods and Alloys. Ecus are really, really good, and if you can secure one as a Gestalts you'll be in a very good place. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Mar 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:10
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
AnEdgelord posted:Are there any meaningful differences between Hive Worlds, Machine Worlds, and Ecumenopolises? very little between hive/machine, but ecus are a class of their own in the way that they *vastly* cut down the requirement for strategic resources, as none of the districts require them for alloys or consumer goods or unity
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:16
|
|
|
This patch boosted my end-game Driven Assimilators army from 1K/month Energy to 9K/month so I essentially have nothing to do but corner markets until the crisis happens. Too bad the AI probably doesn't trade.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:18
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Are there any meaningful differences between Hive Worlds, Machine Worlds, and Ecumenopolises? There are a lot of differences, though hive/machine are very similar. Hive: 10k energy, 20 years 100% Habitability if Hive-Minded (0% if not) +10% Resources from Jobs All normal planetary features are removed. Number of resource districts no longer limited by features. Planetary Prospecting decision disabled. Machine: 10k energy, 20 years 100% Habitability if Mechanical (0% if not) +10% Resources from Jobs All normal planetary features are removed. Number of resource districts no longer limited by features. Planetary Prospecting decision disabled. Cannot support Agriculture Districts. The following planetary modifiers will also be removed: Atmospheric Aphrodisiac, Atmospheric Hallucinogen, Bleak, Hazardous Weather, Hostile Fauna, Irradiated, Lush, Natural Beauty, and Wild Storms. Ecumenopolises: 20k minerals, 10 years. All districts need to be citys, and blockers removed. 100% Habitability All normal planetary features are removed. Planetary Prospecting decision disabled. They have their own special districts, supporting large amounts of pops. No basic resource production.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:22
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:Even in 2.2.4 I found Gestalts were much better at tech rushing than regular bios, not sure why. Shumagorath posted:This patch boosted my end-game Driven Assimilators army from 1K/month Energy to 9K/month
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Dont certain types (Hive Minds, maybe others?) convert minerals straight into research? Could be why Zypher and I both saw Devouring Swarms running roughshod? They do indeed, and yeah it probably has something to do with that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:32
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:They do indeed, and yeah it probably has something to do with that. I think it is more that they have really high pop growth, which means you get the basic planet poo poo out of the way faster (+growth building, +amenity building, etc) so you can start building specialist buildings faster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 15:36
|
|
|
No Dev diary today?
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 16:29
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Are there any meaningful differences between Hive Worlds, Machine Worlds, and Ecumenopolises? Yes, Ecumenopolises do cool poo poo™, the other two are Gaia worlds, but only for your starting race(usually). I guess maybe at some point you might have one planet that really needed those extra resourcing districts, but you can generally terraform them around the time when upgraded buildings and the resources to upkeep them come in, so I don't see shortage of jobs happening. The 10% resource modifier isn't of huge impact either. Meanwhile, Ecumenopolises radically change up how you build your worlds, not just the Ecumenopolis itself, but all your other planets too. What I'm saying is Machine and Hive worlds need do cool poo poo™ too, instead of being regular planets, but with slightly more of regular stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
How do people feel about fanatical purifers and their variants in multiplayer? Good or just too easy to get focused down? Im gonna be playing with around 4 other people this weekend so I wanted to hear peoples thoughts before I committed to something that will end it early for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:12
|
|
|
Gyshall posted:No Dev diary today? https://mobile.twitter.com/StellarisGame/status/1106226209619431424
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:15
|
|
|
Cynic Jester posted:Yes, Ecumenopolises do cool poo poo™, the other two are Gaia worlds, but only for your starting race(usually). I guess maybe at some point you might have one planet that really needed those extra resourcing districts, but you can generally terraform them around the time when upgraded buildings and the resources to upkeep them come in, so I don't see shortage of jobs happening. The 10% resource modifier isn't of huge impact either. Meanwhile, Ecumenopolises radically change up how you build your worlds, not just the Ecumenopolis itself, but all your other planets too. Machine/hive worlds allow you to hyper specialize resource worlds, stacking up modifiers to really crank poo poo out. And 10% is a pretty fat production modifier that stacks with everything else. AnEdgelord posted:How do people feel about fanatical purifers and their variants in multiplayer? Good or just too easy to get focused down? Usually stuff like FP are going to be off-limits, because the downside to them (no diplomacy) isn't applicable to them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:How do people feel about fanatical purifers and their variants in multiplayer? Good or just too easy to get focused down? Any total war civic is a high risk/high reward thing in multiplayer. If the others gang up on you, or if you weaken yourself too much, or if you over extend, someone is going to slip in behind your defenses and lay waste to your infrastructure. But if you spawn in a really defensible spot (like with a Leviathan blocking one of the ways into your territory), or if you're lucky, you may be able to win an early war and start to snowball, hard. Regardless of what you do, you need to be ready to attack the first person you find before they upgrade the starbase on their first colony. It's not hard to get a fleet that can beat theirs, but you'll almost certainly not have a fleet that can beat theirs AND an upgraded starbase. If you can take their first colony, you'll be able to keep them at a disadvantage and eat chunks of them every ten years like clockwork.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:19
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:If you're doing psionics destroyers are definitely stupid good, because you can push up to 90% evasion on them later on. So for the latter half of the game, is it a good idea to simply translate the 'Small Core of Destroyers+Cov Mass' upward and simply have a load of Destroyers (some picket, others offensive) with Cruisers/Battleships the small core instead? Until late game, it feels like stacking tons of Battleships feels costly whilst you have the option to have quite (increasingly flexible) Destroyers to construct, is going to be useful and cheap to replace. Corvettes still seem to have their place in fast fleets of course, particularly as you could probably stack them with a few specialized speed cruisers.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
SkySteak posted:So for the latter half of the game, is it a good idea to simply translate the 'Small Core of Destroyers+Cov Mass' upward and simply have a load of Destroyers (some picket, others offensive) with Cruisers/Battleships the small core instead? Until late game, it feels like stacking tons of Battleships feels costly whilst you have the option to have quite (increasingly flexible) Destroyers to construct, is going to be useful and cheap to replace. Corvettes still seem to have their place in fast fleets of course, particularly as you could probably stack them with a few specialized speed cruisers. Later game you honestly have a ton of options, and it sort of depends on what style of fleets you want to field. The most flexible ship type is the cruiser, while the others tend to have something they're sort of the best at. I'd suggest just going "I want to focus on weapon X", and build from there. When you get to the end-game crisis there are sort of optimal setups for each, because they tend to be hyper-focused so you can counter-build them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 17:26
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Machine/hive worlds allow you to hyper specialize resource worlds, stacking up modifiers to really crank poo poo out. And 10% is a pretty fat production modifier that stacks with everything else. Yep. They are even nicer in that because they are dedicated planets you can specialize your pops to be genemodded to get the extra +25% from Industrious/Agrarian/Ingenious + Robust + Very Strong. Move a couple of +amenities pops over to fill the other jobs, and then just set population controls to just grow your dedicated workers. You take a pop growth hit, but it's worth being able to ignore the genemodding micro. And the +10% is to all planet jobs, not just the worker tier. IMO it's worth doing at some point on every single planet, but I'm sure for some planets it would take centuries to pay back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 18:12
|
|
|
How does one Devouring Swarm? I tried one as my "testing the waters" game to get a feel for 2.2.x, and even on Captain I'm struggling to put the nail in the coffin of my first neighbor. I've been running Nutritional Plenitude and focusing heavily on pop growth and food, but find that I can't generate enough minerals, energy, or alloys to keep up with district development, or build a fleet that noticeably outguns my neighbor even with Supremacy. Granted, my nearby systems are really bad, but I still feel like I'm missing something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
They should make all hull sizes except titans and colossuses available from the start.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 18:24
|
|
|
Darkrenown posted:I fixed nanite buildings being spamed already, but in the live verion there's no penalty for spamming the buildings without any nanities as they don't actually require them to run Thanks for this fix. Something I was thinking about, would it be possible to have generals earn XP every day while in combat, and not just at the end once the battle is over? It's kind of weird to have them jump from level 1 to level 4 because of the pile of XP they earn after the battle is over, and it would be nice to have them earn it as the battle goes on. It would also make planet invasions slightly faster when there is no defending general, since every general level is an extra +5% army damage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 18:24
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:If you're doing psionics destroyers are definitely stupid good, because you can push up to 90% evasion on them later on. How? Outside of absurd edge cases (Chosen one Gale speed admirals), destroyers cap out around 55-60% evasion for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 18:52
|
|
|
binge crotching posted:Thanks for this fix.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 19:06
|
|
|
ZypherIM posted:Later game you honestly have a ton of options, and it sort of depends on what style of fleets you want to field. The most flexible ship type is the cruiser, while the others tend to have something they're sort of the best at. I'd suggest just going "I want to focus on weapon X", and build from there. When you get to the end-game crisis there are sort of optimal setups for each, because they tend to be hyper-focused so you can counter-build them. Alright,. I just always get the feeling that my fleet is unbalanced or there is some hidden optimal ratio I should be paying more attention to; but I suppose if it were that easy, it'd be well known. Balancing around a weapon begets certain design choices seems to make sense, given that it begets certain hull designs, pickets/screens etc.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 17:29 |
|
|
Splicer posted:It'd be neat internal narrative fodder when your general develops bloodthirsty halfway through an invasion and just starts murdering the poo poo out of everything. I'd like it if tagging more than 1 general to a massive army actually allowed some XP gain to those other generals.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 19:16
|
|
