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Aranan posted:Well there's the motivation for me to finish up the Tiste trilogy! Can't wait to witness. You might be waiting a while, given that he's holding off on the 3rd book due to crap sales of the second.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:04
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kingturnip posted:You might be waiting a while, given that he's holding off on the 3rd book due to crap sales of the second. Oh, well that works for me. I bought the second but never finished it.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:51
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November date for the new book is wrong. Not sure who updated the official Facebook page with a piece of Erikson's original art and the wrong date, but here we are.
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Mar 6, 2019 21:59
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I decided to read this for the first time. There's 5 pages of DRAMATIS PERSONAE at the start of the first book. gently caress.
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Mar 7, 2019 11:57
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Just relax and have a good time. There's not a ton of setup time to get used to the characters outside of conflict. There will always be a reread once you got a grip on the setting and people!
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Mar 7, 2019 18:08
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Its abosutely the Wrong Way to read books but if you're overwhelmed just kind of let it all wash over you and do a reread a few days later. Erikson spends precisely zero time on acclimating you to his fictional world and to make it worse every POV character is both an unreliable narrator and probably wrong anyways. Once you're familiar with the general framework of the world and story it's a lot less overwhelming. I realize that this in no way makes it sound like a book anyone should read, but I enjoyed it immensely!
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Mar 8, 2019 05:10
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Also once you get about a third of the way into GotM it shifts from "I have no idea what's going on" to "the characters have no idea what's going on" which is much more enjoyable.
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Mar 8, 2019 10:25
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:I decided to read this for the first time. There's 5 pages of DRAMATIS PERSONAE at the start of the first book. gently caress. The first two chapters are also really long and hard but like Strom Cuzewon said it gets much more enjoyable about a third of the through. If you want to post thoughts and reactions as you go along I want to read them. If you feel like you should recognize something from way earlier but you don't remember we can probably help out without spoiling things.
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Mar 8, 2019 11:11
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Man with Hat posted:The first two chapters are also really long and hard but like Strom Cuzewon said it gets much more enjoyable about a third of the through. Yeah sure. I'm up to the Darujhistan section of the book so I'm mostly going by memory: DRAMATIS PERSONAE Despite my protests this wasn't as bad as the dramatis personae for the Masters of Rome series by Colleen McCullough where every member of a Roman dynasty has the same name. Prologue The poem at the start does a good job of setting the context for the scene on the castle. Ganoes (Is that a real name? Is it pronounced like canoes?) wants to be a soldier when he grows up and the old veteran thinks its a dumb idea. Laseen shows up and we're all but told she's the one who kills the emperor in the poem. I remember hoping these characters actually show up again later in the book. GRRM has scarred me. Chapter 1 In the conversation between the old witch and Sorry we get an initial impression of the foreverwar the empire keeps pursuing. The witch passes her powers on to Sorry and seems to possess her somehow and then two spooky guys show up and recruit her in some plot against the new empress. Then they send the dogs down the road. The reset of the chapter is a grown up Ganoes and the Adjunct investigating the dog attack which was just a distraction from the larger conspiracy. So some people are blue in this book are they still humans? Also what's a Tiste Andii? Seems like it's totally not an elf. Also Ganoes goes through a Warren to the imperial capital. I was surprised to see magic use as we were told in the prologue that magic was banned. Ganoes was correct to assume the warren gateway would go through to a courtyard or a stables as what sort of idiot would have a portal to a magic dimension right next to the head of state? Chapters 2-4 These chapters all kind of run together as they jump around a bit chronologically. We get introduced to a new main character Tattersail plus Whiskeyjack is back in the story. This chapter is mostly about the fall of Pale and dumps a whole lot of hints about magic and gods and Sorry's mission, plus a civil war might be brewing between Laseen and her war-weary generals. It's probably not a good idea to attack a magic floating death fortress if you don't have one of your own. So magic comes out of the Warrens but there are also gods in there who live in really powerful Warrens and mess with the mortal world. Also Chaos is a thing and seems similar to the Warhammer version of it or perhaps more likely the Moorcock version. So I think the magic realm is probably either a dead god or a big ball of magic cheese. I'm not sure I like the Deck of Dragons as a literary mechanic, it feels like a clumsy way to do foreshadowing. But it's also kind of interesting that the warren gods are so fundamental that they can't really hide their intentions properly. Ganoes Paran becomes captain of the Bridge Burners and gets killed by Sorry straight away. So he makes a deal with the twin gods of chance because they feel like loving with house Shadow and he comes back to life. There's a bunch more going on as well such as the mystery of the wizard guy from the free cities, the crazy puppet wizard and the conspiracy to kill of the bridge burners and the imperial wizards. Plus the weird Moranth people who like insects. One thing that's been irking me is the names of things as they just seem plucked out of wherever. For example the two big cities in Genabakis are called Pale and Darujhistan. It doesn't feel like much effort was made to give regions cohesive naming systems.
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Mar 9, 2019 07:12
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Genabackis is pretty big. Erikson was an archaeologist and there are some cool things going on with languages and names all through the series. Those two specific names dont really relate to each other culturally as far as I remember; before the Malazan conquest Genabackis was ruled by independent ethno city states. Its actually been a while since I read GOTM. Blue-hued people come from a specific island, (human) racial inclusion is a thing in the Malazan Emire but not the world in general, Utilitarian probably best describes the philosophy of Malaz. The Tiste start off as Not-Elves and eventually become more complex Not-Elves. I actually like Erikson's fantasy races a lot, he cribs pretty much nothing from Tolkien compared to the genre as a whole. I personally always liked the concept of the Deck of Dragons as a truly living magical tarot, cards and even whole Houses (suits) will (literally) appear and disappear from a physical deck based on the magical landscape at the time. It's still unreliable, but it supplements the POV characters knowledge of larger scale events. Apologies if you didn't actually want those answered but I tried not to spoil too hard just in case. pile of brown fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Mar 9, 2019 |
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Mar 9, 2019 08:02
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No your post is fine. I get the impression that the Malaz empire isn't an actual empire so much as a never ending series of military campaigns.
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Mar 9, 2019 08:13
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I'd characterize it more as an empire of ideas... I guess? If a city/state/king surrenders and signs on to enforcing only the laws of the Malazan Empire and pays their taxes they let them remain basically autonomous. They conquer as much by reputation and diplomacy (under threat of the sword), as by actual conquest. They're very smugly pragmatic.
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Mar 9, 2019 08:26
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While Eriksson takes little from Tolkien, he steals massive from Cook and Moorcock.
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Mar 9, 2019 08:51
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I'd call it a tribute, honestly. You can see the inspiration, but you can also tell Erikson was aware of them and made his Elric and Mocker (for two that show up in GotM) sufficiently different in both character and theme while still being recognizable.
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Mar 9, 2019 10:12
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I've been trying to get a buddy of mine to read this series for probably 5+ years now. I think I have a shot, but only in ebook format (he works crazy hours but has his phone, so he is able to read bits and pieces digitally). Is the only MBotF ebook the full compilation for $79.99? That's a hefty buy in.
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Mar 9, 2019 14:13
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You can get individual books on the kindle store and maybe other places too.
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Mar 9, 2019 16:59
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anilEhilated posted:I'd call it a tribute, honestly. You can see the inspiration, but you can also tell Erikson was aware of them and made his Elric and Mocker (for two that show up in GotM) sufficiently different in both character and theme while still being recognizable. Well, theft is the highest form of admiration so. I would say Fiddler in some ways is similar to Croaker for that matter. Eriksons is however a better author than Cook, especially in portraying characters, where Cook tend to have rather flat ones.
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Mar 9, 2019 18:28
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Aranan posted:I've been trying to get a buddy of mine to read this series for probably 5+ years now. I think I have a shot, but only in ebook format (he works crazy hours but has his phone, so he is able to read bits and pieces digitally). I got the first kindle book for $14.00.
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Mar 10, 2019 00:02
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:I got the first kindle book for $14.00. Thats... brutal. Esp considering I regularly pick up copies at the used bookstore for $2 to give to people
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Mar 10, 2019 00:09
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There's not much difference in marginal utility between $2 and $14 to me when it comes to entertainment products. Chapters 5 - 7 We're still getting introduced to new characters, this time inside Darujhistan. It seems as though some Titse are fighting a secret war against the assasins, there's a plot to sell out to the Malazans and the Twin gods of chance throw their magic coin into the mix. We get to meet a big talking bird and
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Mar 10, 2019 04:07
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Almost everyones goals beyond immediate crisis are 10 books long
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Mar 10, 2019 05:20
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I recently finished ICEs latest, and I have to believe that the reason we meet another character named Pearl had to bree some subtle troll. Overall I liked the book, but if felt short and I agree that it feels a bit weird that the last Cadre that bites it in GotM was also the first. Protectress, do we know her back story, I kind of remember her being Liosan. but nothing more.
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Mar 10, 2019 08:11
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Yeah, I finished Kellanved's Reach this week as well. It was alright but - as others have mentioned - seemed to suffer from his goal of throwing as many already-known characters into the mix as possible. And yeah, far too short. RotCG was way too long and he was right to rein the books in after that, but this felt like a book with chapters, if not entire Parts, missing. Let alone the somewhat mystifying decision to call the series "Path to Ascendancy" and then finish it with the main characters being all "Huh, we should probably go and explore that realm that we're going to be gods and masters of in a hundred years".
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Mar 10, 2019 12:05
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If you're getting into it the Malazan Reread of the Fallen over on Tor's website is a great annoted version of the series.pile of brown posted:I realize that this in no way makes it sound like a book anyone should read, but I enjoyed it immensely! This is basically every summary I've ever given to people. Also I generally describe it as a series that mainly appeals to people who have read mountains of trashy fantasy. pile of brown posted:The Tiste start off as Not-Elves and eventually become more complex Not-Elves. I prefer his Orcs which is a pretty unique take on orcs. VVVVV Jaghut Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 00:30
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Who are the orcs?
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Mar 12, 2019 00:43
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They're more like misanthropic elves than orcs, imo.
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Mar 12, 2019 01:11
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pile of brown posted:They're more like misanthropic elves than orcs, imo. That's the point. They're described physically as "classical" orcs. But they're mostly pacifist academic anarchists.
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Mar 12, 2019 01:13
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I kind of pictured them as WoW trolls physically except taller and a little more stretched out
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Mar 12, 2019 08:03
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pile of brown posted:I kind of pictured them as WoW trolls physically except taller and a little more stretched out Me too. The Barghast were always the Malazan orcs in my mind.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:34
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I like how much of a clusterfuck the racial descents are. Barghast, Trell and Human are all some vague mix of Toblakai, Jaghut and Imass, but nobody can agree on the exact mix, and even with full genomes you probably couldn't unpick them all.
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Mar 12, 2019 16:05
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Strom Cuzewon posted:I like how much of a clusterfuck the racial descents are. Barghast, Trell and Human are all some vague mix of Toblakai, Jaghut and Imass, but nobody can agree on the exact mix, and even with full genomes you probably couldn't unpick them all.
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Mar 12, 2019 16:57
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Infinite Karma posted:On rereads and after later books, that seems like an unreliable narrator mythology. The Azathanai seem to create new races impulsively, and they keep riffing on the same theme (Barghast, Human, Imass, Moranth) trying to get it "right", and never do. Kilmandaros and Draconus get called out for it by their peers, and I wouldn't be surprised if Gothos and Skillen Droe are also the creators of their races, and possibly others before or after. Oh yeah, that adds to the clusterfuck even more. Didn't Skillen say he merely found the K'Chain though?
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Mar 12, 2019 17:26
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Oh yeah, that adds to the clusterfuck even more. He kind of equivocated, it struck me as evasive, or even as if he was disassociated from reality a little. The K'chain practice genetic engineering and breeding and have advanced technology and it read more like "I stopped paying attention, and I found this weird civilization where I left my dumb dinosaurs." Also found is very close to "founded" and also seems like the mistake Skillen might make in his mostly nonverbal state. Like he was saying "I gave the first push, they did all this on their own." I could be reading too far into it though. Gothos isn't even explicitly a member of the club, but he fits the archetype. Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 17:44
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Infinite Karma posted:
You could tell me any insane bullshit about Gothos and I'd probably believe it.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:26
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cptn_dr posted:You could tell me any insane bullshit about Gothos and I'd probably believe it.
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Mar 12, 2019 22:29
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Episodes 8-10 We get a bunch of world building in this section via a skeleton guy who teams up with the Adjunct. I think I've run into the Tlan Imass outside of the Malazan books before. In the indie video game Conquest of Elysium 4 the necromancer class can summon an army of skeletal warriors wearing hide armour and wielding flint weapons. Are Tlan Imass magical Neanderthals? It seems like there were lots of ancient races with their own warrens. I guess Humans have to make their own like the Imperial warren. Also Tattersail drops a magic nuke and soulshifts into a makeshift flesh golem. Episodes 11-13 All the pieces set up in the first half of the book start moving toward their goals. Whiskeyjack is setting up to sabotage Darujhistan during the seige and it looks like a bunch of drama is going to happen at the Jaghut's prison. Kruppe helps K'rul reincarnate Tattersail in some weird euchronic dream. Demons and gods duke it out on the rooftops. I think this is the first time we the book explicitly describes Sorry's possession by the god Cotillion. So I guess Anamander Rake is also some kind of divine or at least semi-divine figure. It makes Tayschren's victory at Pale more impressive. I get the feeling that the line between gods and wizards in this setting is a matter of degree rather then kind.
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Mar 14, 2019 10:24
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Yeah I always tended to think of the Imass as cave-people and they are described as basically proto-human. Most of your other observations are spot on, I don't want to go into much detail in case something gets spoiled, but especially as far as the world's powerful people go there is very much a long sliding scale in Malazan, and distinctions between regular "ascended" people and gods can get very blurry. Also please keep posting your thoughts! The first half of Gardens is by far the roughest part of the entire series to read, and Erikson only gets better as a writer going forward, so if you're still enjoying yourself you will probably like the rest of the series a lot.
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Mar 14, 2019 20:28
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I've been enjoying it a lot even though it does feel a bit like someone's DnD session or Let's Play report at times. The prose is very readable. At one point I found myself wondering why the Young Adult fiction genre exists when there are perfectly readable contemporary fantasy books like this that don't talk down to the reader. I tried to read the Harry Potter books and gave up on the second or third one because the prose was so terrible. When I was a kid Raymond E. Feist was all the rage and while he is far from a great writer at least he just wrote his books how he wanted and kids loved it because it was an entertaining power fantasy.
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Mar 15, 2019 10:01
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It's literally him transcribing a DnD campaign he and Esslemont ran for large parts of the book lol. This continues to a lesser extent over the rest of the series but it's by far the most obvious in the first book, with the Darujhistan adventuring party and everyone essentially being described as their character class
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Mar 15, 2019 11:21
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:It's literally him transcribing a DnD campaign he and Esslemont ran for large parts of the book lol. Although weirdly, Crokus wasnt in their gaming sessions, and he's pretty central to the story.
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Mar 15, 2019 11:36
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