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Jabarto posted:If I could take Adaptability on normal empires, I would do it every single time, no question. -10% housing alone is better than anything Diplomacy gets; federations suck, trade is more trouble than it's worth if you're not a megacorp, the diplomatic influence reduction is too dependent on who spawns next to you, and 5 points of trade protection is laughable. The market fee reduction is the only good thing Diplomacy gets, and while it IS good it can't carry an entire tree by itself. I especially like the early building unlock. It lets me build a robot factory the second i colonize a planet.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:33
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Taear posted:Federations are amazing and give you an infinitely big ridiculous fleet with absolutely no effort whatsoever. At the cost of never being able to use it because no one will let you declare war.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:43
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Jabarto posted:At the cost of never being able to use it because no one will let you declare war. Yeah when the militarist allies kept turning down my war declarations I left the federation and then vassalized them in addition to my original targets. They wouldn’t let me vassalize the enemy they’d already fought 2 wars with, and they refused the conquest war instead. They refused two other wars with some mutual rivals. I tried one last time on a conquest war and still no.
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Mar 17, 2019 21:59
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I took the discovery tree and blazed through the precursor event chain, ending up with a size 25 eccumenopolis for my 4th colony as a hive mind. It's bizarre having this much alloy this early, not that Im complaining. 
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Mar 18, 2019 00:51
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multiplayer game is ago and I'm already in the lead with my Driven Assimilators, how long should I wait until I kick open the L-gates?
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Mar 18, 2019 02:31
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Jabarto posted:If I could take Adaptability on normal empires, I would do it every single time, no question. -10% housing alone is better than anything Diplomacy gets; federations suck, trade is more trouble than it's worth if you're not a megacorp, the diplomatic influence reduction is too dependent on who spawns next to you, and 5 points of trade protection is laughable. The market fee reduction is the only good thing Diplomacy gets, and while it IS good it can't carry an entire tree by itself. Similarly, the -10% housing is the only good thing adaptability gets, and I really don't think it's that strong. You save some minerals on not having to build one city/planet and have a slightly smaller empire size. Hooray? And yes 5 trade protection is garbage and federations questionable at best, but you don't have to take those traditions. And adaptability has the federation tradition anyway, though instead of the federation naval cap contribution bonus you get reduced damage taken from orbital bombardment. Useful! The diplo discount in diplomacy is useful most of the time (and also gives you some extra pop growth from migration l, which is nice if you have new colonies), market fee reduction is good, and especially later on trade value buff is good even for non-megacorps. If you mean you'd take the adaptability opener and nothing else, that's fine I guess. But the other traditions are garbage.
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Mar 18, 2019 02:43
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1. I'm going to either have to learn the tall tech-rush strategy or give up on trying an early gateway strategy. 2346 this run. 2. 2346 and I've only seen androids roll once - and I clearly should have picked it then - so I'm having to turn off robot manufacture as I've maxed the planet out. The RNG giveth and all that.
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Mar 18, 2019 04:28
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Staltran posted:And yes 5 trade protection is garbage
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Mar 18, 2019 10:11
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Jabarto posted:At the cost of never being able to use it because no one will let you declare war. I've only ever had a fed that won't go to war once. Even though I'm getting them on-side by changing to defensive wars only then swapping back. And I'm in a fed every game that I'm not exterminators which is most of the time!
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Mar 18, 2019 10:55
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Poil posted:Maybe if it was 50 trade protection that also applied on your trade routes outside your borders. That would be pretty good. I'd prefer a percentage modifier so the massive trade values going into my capital system aren't overwhelmed by piracy just outside it.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:44
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Is it possible to mod in non-Gestalt robots?
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Mar 18, 2019 12:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:Is it possible to mod in non-Gestalt robots? Synthetic ascension results in non gestalt robots so the code has to be there.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:05
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A special trait that just triggers the ascension perk and project results on game creation would absolutely be possible. I thought someone was working on a larger mod that made it more "balanced" and let you start out as a fairly newly synthetic society relying on barely-acceptable hardware which you then researched up to standard synths over time?
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Mar 18, 2019 15:08
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I think I see how the code could do it in the main species file, just leave out MACHINE_INTELLIGENCE = yes or something but I haven't tested it and it would be nice to know if it works; ideally leave the choice in civics selection to be either MI or normal civic picks. I wanna add in some races that are all basically comprised of sentient androids where their consciousness is in their individual shells; maybe they can transfer it body to body like in Battlestar Galactica. Individualist AI's seem like a Scifi trope strangely missing from Stellaris.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:22
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AnEdgelord posted:Synthetic ascension results in non gestalt robots so the code has to be there. I've seen a mod that lets you start the game as psionic -- there oughtta be a way to do robots.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:24
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Raenir Salazar posted:I think I see how the code could do it in the main species file, just leave out MACHINE_INTELLIGENCE = yes or something but I haven't tested it and it would be nice to know if it works; ideally leave the choice in civics selection to be either MI or normal civic picks. I wanna add in some races that are all basically comprised of sentient androids where their consciousness is in their individual shells; maybe they can transfer it body to body like in Battlestar Galactica. Individualist AI's seem like a Scifi trope strangely missing from Stellaris. I'd like to see this too. It's neat having synth citizens at any rate, a few got even got elected president in my last republic game
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Mar 18, 2019 15:30
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Raenir Salazar posted:Individualist AI's seem like a Scifi trope strangely missing from Stellaris. Yeah, it's a bit of a strange omission. I think there are far more individualist AIs than gestalt AIs in sci-fi. I actually can't think of any gestalts off the top of my head; I guess the Geth in Mass Effect are kind of gestalt-ish? They're more of a distributed network of individual minds though, since they actually formed factions in Mass Effect 2. Of course, I'm hardly an exhaustive source of knowledge of the subject.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:33
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I'd like to see some more flavor for the Psionic part when your entire race flips the switch to being Psionic, society collapses because when everyone starts communicating telepathically everyone's hate/lust/greed because more readily apparent. This obviously wouldnt be any fun but I would think it was hilarious the first time it happened.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:33
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Raenir Salazar posted:Individualist AI's seem like a Scifi trope strangely missing from Stellaris. That's is what Synths are.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:36
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'd like to see some more flavor for the Psionic part when your entire race flips the switch to being Psionic, society collapses because when everyone starts communicating telepathically everyone's hate/lust/greed because more readily apparent. This obviously wouldnt be any fun but I would think it was hilarious the first time it happened. I would expect racism to go off the charts if you had multiple species in your empire. One species is continually talking about everybody else behind their backs. 
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Mar 18, 2019 15:36
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DatonKallandor posted:That's is what Synths are. Yeah, but synths are an extremely narrow slice of individualist AIs. You can't start as them and they exclusively represent organics who chose to upload their consciousness into robots, which means it could certainly be argued that they aren't actually AIs at all.
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Mar 18, 2019 15:40
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I'd like to see some more flavor for the Psionic part when your entire race flips the switch to being Psionic, society collapses because when everyone starts communicating telepathically everyone's hate/lust/greed because more readily apparent. This obviously wouldnt be any fun but I would think it was hilarious the first time it happened. This is now my headcanon for the great poo poo your economy takes when pops move over to "assimilation."
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Mar 18, 2019 15:55
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Zurai posted:Yeah, but synths are an extremely narrow slice of individualist AIs. You can't start as them and they exclusively represent organics who chose to upload their consciousness into robots, which means it could certainly be argued that they aren't actually AIs at all. That's just synthetic ascension synths. You can still just build them in a factory, which represents the lion's share of individualist AIs in fiction, having the tech to build from-scratch synths is even a prereq for synthetic ascension. It's just that it's a fairly late-game tech and the ascension perk hogs the spotlight. The point stands that people still want to play Cylons, though.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:03
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Yeah Synths sorta exist in game but it's really unclear to me just at what point your robots become sentient. I researched Synths and I couldn't notice anything different aside from some synths were now researchers. They don't visibly or obvious act or indicate sentience, like, I'd at a minimum want a tooltip in purple/green that says "Sentient Synthetic" to distinguish between them and dumb robots that are now equivilent to just like, dogs or beasts or burden to other Synths. Like a robot bulldozer that acts like a puppy. But yeah we can't start as Synths and that'd be something I'd like to see.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:20
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Raenir Salazar posted:Yeah Synths sorta exist in game but it's really unclear to me just at what point your robots become sentient. There should at least be some event chain associated with it even if you give synths full citizen rights from the outset. Even your more tolerant citizens should react to citizen-machines somehow rather them just apparently integrating so smoothly you don't even notice until they start popping up in leader slots.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:Like a robot bulldozer that acts like a puppy.  "Sir! There was a massive mining shaft collapse on Manward VIII! "What? How? Our modern safety training should keep us safe from that!" "Apparently someone accidentally uploaded their child's robo-dog's AI to their newtech autonomous bulldozer..." "Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff"
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Mar 18, 2019 16:31
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That reminds me about Transformers and Cybertronians. They have "puppies and cats" animal like sentience for some kinds of their robot life in addition to regular sentience for regular cybertronians; and all sentient life in some canons is born from the Matrix which is also their afterlife.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:34
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THE loving MOON posted:I took the discovery tree and blazed through the precursor event chain, ending up with a size 25 eccumenopolis for my 4th colony as a hive mind. It's bizarre having this much alloy this early, not that Im complaining. Normally my first tradition perk is expansion, but if I find out that I have the precursor event chain I beeline it through the Discovery tree first for the survey/anomaly boost to get the ecumenopolis as soon as possible. It's so good its criminal. It's almost *too* good when compared to the others since not only is it the best reward but you can start using it almost right away after you have built a starbase in Fen Habbanis. I have fen habbanis and a couple other size 25 ecumenopoli in my current game and it's crazy. I haven't had to build any civilian industries or alloy factories beyond my home planet and first 2 colonies, and you can eventually phase those out as well for more research or exotic mineral production.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:44
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Entorwellian posted:It's so good its criminal. It's almost *too* good when compared to the others since not only is it the best reward but you can start using it almost right away after you have built a starbase in Fen Habbanis.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:46
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prefect posted:I've seen a mod that lets you start the game as psionic -- there oughtta be a way to do robots. Wait for the game to start, open a console and give yourself the following techs: tech_robotic_workers tech_droid_workers tech_synthetic_workers tech_synthetic_leaders If you don't have those, you won't be able to build any pops, and without the last one you won't have any leaders. Then run event utopia.2501. Wait a couple of days for everything to process, and then run event utopia.2551. Congratulations, you're now a synthetic empire from the start. The first event is what runs after you research 'The Flesh is Weak', and it turns all your pops into cyborgs. The second event is what runs after you finish the 'Synthetic Evolution' project, and turns your cyborgs into robots. You could easily create a mod that does it upon startup, but for a 1-off it's easier to just fire it from the console.
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Mar 18, 2019 16:53
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Entorwellian posted:Normally my first tradition perk is expansion, but if I find out that I have the precursor event chain I beeline it through the Discovery tree first for the survey/anomaly boost to get the ecumenopolis as soon as possible. It's so good its criminal. It's almost *too* good when compared to the others since not only is it the best reward but you can start using it almost right away after you have built a starbase in Fen Habbanis. As a Hive Mind it's had an unexpected bonus. I just hit midgame and I was producing so much alloy from my foundry arcologies that I was having to dump it into the market just to make room pretty regularly, even with an oversized fleet and wars to keep them occupied. So rather than building another foundry arcology, I went for one of the ones that produces consumer goods and now I have a decent income of a resource I don't need at all that I can freely sell on the market without consequence. So far as I know that's the only way to produce consumer goods as a hive mind. edit: My egalitarian xenophile federation associates don't seem as upset by the fact that I eat what they call 'people' as they should be. Scared, probably  haha I don't know if this qualifies as a bug or not, but there's another hive mind kind of close to me who had a slightly negative opinion of me. I was gonna buy him off with some alloys, but I tried consumer goods instead. Turns out since his consumer goods storage was at zero and there's no sanity check, it took like 1k of that to get him to go full cargo cult 
THE FUCKING MOON fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Mar 18, 2019 |
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Mar 18, 2019 16:55
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Raenir Salazar posted:Yeah Synths sorta exist in game but it's really unclear to me just at what point your robots become sentient. I really don't like that when you get droids and when you get Synths it's just still "Robots", I don't understand why that was changed.
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Mar 18, 2019 18:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:Yeah Synths sorta exist in game but it's really unclear to me just at what point your robots become sentient. The whole synth setup is a mess from top to bottom. Wiz kept saying that forcing everything to upgrade to synths was the only way to make there be meaningful choices and for there ever to be AI uprisings etc etc but that was hogwash then and it's hogwash now. There's loads of ways you can hook in mixed robot societies into things and make them interesting. Have your Synths be fine with Robots but get real pissy about Droids or enslaved Synths, your Materialists get mad at you for having any Robots and Droids when you can do better, your Spiritualists find anything above Robots uncomfortable but Free Synths to be the absolute worst, your Xenophobes get mad about free Synths and a bit iffy about enslaved ones, your Xenophiles want at least some Synths if possible so they can talk to them, and neither Authoritarians nor Egalitarians care about Synths specifically but their general attitudes on face stamping apply. And that's just faction reasons to upgrade or not upgrade various parts of your empire to Synths. There's immigration of Synths, you could have a bunch of random events where batches of Robots and Droids get upgraded by radicals or as pranks or due to incorrect OTA upgrades, you could have individual Synths before you have the tech proper due to the various sci fi homage events etc. Just a criminal lack of imagination.
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Mar 18, 2019 18:48
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Splicer posted:robots/synths
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Mar 18, 2019 18:55
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As Determined Exterminators is there a way to purge the droids that I captured during an invasion?
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Mar 18, 2019 19:39
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THE loving MOON posted:haha I don't know if this qualifies as a bug or not, but there's another hive mind kind of close to me who had a slightly negative opinion of me. I was gonna buy him off with some alloys, but I tried consumer goods instead. Turns out since his consumer goods storage was at zero and there's no sanity check, it took like 1k of that to get him to go full cargo cult It's been that way since 2.2, and it's my favorite thing.
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Mar 18, 2019 20:44
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THE loving MOON posted:haha I don't know if this qualifies as a bug or not, but there's another hive mind kind of close to me who had a slightly negative opinion of me. I was gonna buy him off with some alloys, but I tried consumer goods instead. Turns out since his consumer goods storage was at zero and there's no sanity check, it took like 1k of that to get him to go full cargo cult Giving beads and trinkets to restless natives: proven to work even in the future.
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Mar 18, 2019 21:09
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:As Determined Exterminators is there a way to purge the droids that I captured during an invasion? Head to the species list, find the droids, set to undesirable.
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Mar 18, 2019 21:19
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Shadowlyger posted:Head to the species list, find the droids, set to undesirable. And if that's greyed out?
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Mar 18, 2019 21:47
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It shouldn't be, unless you recently changed their rights or something. I have for sure dismantled other robot types as a DE, as recently as 2.2.5. Nothing in the tooltip?
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Mar 18, 2019 21:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.