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Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
He makes Blade Trinity like, almost watchable.

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chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Ryan Reynolds is just unbelievably funny. He's got this deadpan way of saying something utterly ridiculous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVeAdzNU2ow

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004

I've always been of the opinion that Art, whether it's juvenile or intellectual, great or mediocre, almost always *tells the truth*. By art, I mean everything from pop songs and TV Shows and films to paintings and novels and sculpture and so on. I think this has been true for a very long time, in truth. After all, the greatest insights that can be gleaned about Renaissance masters like Da Vinci or Michelangelo come from the paintings and poetry and architecture they created, and they speak volumes more than any biography could.

I do actually have a sort of point here... Everyone always wonders and questions whether you can separate the artist from the art, when the artist turns out to be a scumbag or pedophile or whatever. In my opinion, this is a sort of willfully blinding and foolish thing to do. The art is the artist, and you can get a much more solid understanding of the art by looking at it within the context of the life of the artist. We don't have that opportunity with, say, Michelangelo or Mozart, but with MJ his entire life was scrutinized and documented, and now his unbelievably sordid personal life is being laid bare.

I don't know about anyone else, but the defining image I cannot seem to escape from or keep out of my mind is Jackson having the "mock wedding ceremony" with James Safechuck, and exchanging vows and rings. Except of course, it was a VERY REAL ceremony for both of them, and I can only imagine it meant a tremendous amount to Michael and especially Safechuck and probably still does in a number of deeply upsetting ways.

So.. The point I'm trying to make is that it's VERY difficult to listen to love songs (and even other songs) written by Jackson, and not ascribe a ton of different meanings within his lyrics based on what we've learned about his life, and what was going on at the time for him. Hard not to feel deeply creeped out by his previously charming love songs (The Way You Make Me Feel, for instance) and there's several songs he did portraying women as bloodsuckers/gold-diggers/and so on - Billie Jean and Dirty Diana come to mind.

There is also something upsettingly flip about how he portrayed himself during this era. Album titles like Bad and Dangerous - him telling us what a Smooth Criminal he is. Or a song like "In The Closet" which is about keeping love affairs absolutely 100% secret - but not to worry it's totally heterosexual and normal because it's a duet with a woman and there's like, an actual female pronoun in it I think.


Sorry guys. I'm just frustrated that it's impossible to separate the man from the music because his songwriting was so unconscious that he couldn't help but put his real life out there...

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ZvJCrQsso

William Control made a nearly 20-minute video trying to debunk one of his accusers. I find it way too gross to watch in full, but it seems that a lot of his "evidence" of consensual behavior isn't actually disputing the main accusation: that he manipulated mentally ill and vulnerable women into consenting to things they ordinarily wouldn't have.

Also contains some hilariously graphic sexting descriptions that just go above and beyond.

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

chitoryu12 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3ZvJCrQsso

William Control made a nearly 20-minute video trying to debunk one of his accusers. I find it way too gross to watch in full, but it seems that a lot of his "evidence" of consensual behavior isn't actually disputing the main accusation: that he manipulated mentally ill and vulnerable women into consenting to things they ordinarily wouldn't have.

Also contains some hilariously graphic sexting descriptions that just go above and beyond.

I don't even know who this is. This one passed me by, I guess.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

thrawn527 posted:

I don't even know who this is. This one passed me by, I guess.

I have other posts detailing it in my post history. Basically he’s a former punk band singer (really popular in like 2005 among emos) who then made a solo electronic music career. He suddenly abandoned a tour and then temporarily closed his record company, and it turns out that he was accused by a ton of women of rape and physical abuse to create a “sex cult”.

His MO seems to have been targeting mentally ill or otherwise vulnerable women and using his celebrity status to make them feel desired, getting them to engage in extremely harmful BDSM, branded them property with tattoos, said they needed to commit suicide to fulfill his death fetish, etc. But because he convinced them to consent by threatening to leave them, he has a legal defense.

It brings up a lot of questions about BDSM especially, such as “Can a mentally ill person who wants to self-harm truly consent to being seriously injured as a kink?”

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
The part that really got me was “at what point should someone intervene in a BDSM relationship” which is powerfully sketchy. I know it sounds crazy but some people want or even feel like they need to be abused, and if someone literally cannot feel sexual fulfillment without being made to feel like poo poo first...

He promotes a series of great conversations by himself being a total incubus deathmonster who should at the very least get pushed off a bridge into a dumpster full of pig diarrhea

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Bust Rodd posted:

The part that really got me was “at what point should someone intervene in a BDSM relationship” which is powerfully sketchy. I know it sounds crazy but some people want or even feel like they need to be abused, and if someone literally cannot feel sexual fulfillment without being made to feel like poo poo first...

He promotes a series of great conversations by himself being a total incubus deathmonster who should at the very least get pushed off a bridge into a dumpster full of pig diarrhea

It also brings the question of “When do you bear responsibility for the harm?” As far as I know, in any country without sodomy laws the only legal limit is murder. There’s a lot of BDSM that goes to the point of blood and black eyes at a minimum.

In the case of these girls, the consent is already sketchy at best; their accounts say that he would get them to consent in text and then just take opportunities to violently abuse them without any safe words. But you have to wonder how much they could consent. By their own admission, they suffer from a variety of mental illnesses that drive them to hurt themselves and easily fall for the idea of a “rock star” loving them. But hurting people who ask for it in bed isn’t actually illegal and the line where you can intervene is fuzzy if it exists at all.

Regardless, he’s still incredibly scummy for keeping everything arranged so he has a legal out if accused of rape or abuse.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
The state can charge people with assault without the victim's cooperation. It's just a lot harder

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

The whole situation sounds somewhat like what went down when Jian Ghomeshi was revealed to be an abusive creep. Same attempt at deflecting blame under the umbrella of “defining BDSM.”

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

Kevin Tsujihara Out as Warner Bros. Chief Amid Sexual Impropriety Scandal

https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/kevin-tsujihara-warner-bros-sexual-impropriety-1203165653/

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

thrawn527 posted:

Kevin Tsujihara Out as Warner Bros. Chief Amid Sexual Impropriety Scandal

https://variety.com/2019/biz/news/kevin-tsujihara-warner-bros-sexual-impropriety-1203165653/

Only use your position as head of a film studio to seduce actresses talented enough it doesn't look suspicious when you're suddenly foisting them on a bunch of random movies.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004

Christ, I could not make it through that video and turned it off when it got to him playing the audio from encounters he had with this woman from his person porn collection :vomit" and there were all the disgusting slimy soft schlick-a, schlick-a... noises and I literally felt like I wanted to throw up. I cannot even imagine how it could have gotten worse from there, but probably it somehow did.

I really can't quite articulate just how disgusted I am by the William Control stuff and everything about it. I just find it it extremely and deeply disturbing. Part of it is that I really am not a fan of polygamy, even though I have lots of gay friends who disagree with me strongly about that. But this video is like premised on me approving of his polygamist lifestyle in the first place, and I find it loving disgusting that he has a harem of "slave girls" or whatever he calls them and that he exchanges filthy texts with them and records their sexual encounters and insists they call him 'daddy' during sex and OH MY GOD

At least when Kevin Spacey "came out of the darkness" with a video, he had the good taste to mask it with a somewhat camp sensibility and the hideously bad taste of the apron he wore. It would be interesting to compare all the 'response' videos from those who have been effectively labeled as a 'predator' by the media.

kaworu fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Mar 18, 2019

thrawn527
Mar 27, 2004

Thrawn/Pellaeon
Studying the art of terrorists
To keep you safe

kaworu posted:

At least when Kevin Spacey "came out of the darkness" with a video, he had the good taste to mask it with a somewhat camp sensibility and the hideously bad taste of the apron he wore. It would be interesting to compare all the 'response' videos from those who have been effectively labeled as a 'predator' by the media.

Nope, nope, sorry, hard disagree.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Yeah uh, using “camp” to distract from a lifetime of gross sexual abuse and assault is far from “good taste.”

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

Seriously. Spacey literally admitted to sexual assault but tried to excuse it by coming out at the same time, which gave fuel to that old canard that bigots love to parrot, that being homosexual is the result of childhood sexual abuse.

Origami Dali
Jan 7, 2005

Get ready to fuck!
You fucker's fucker!
You fucker!
Those encounters from that dork "rockstar" read like bog standard dom/sub poo poo to me, but I'm getting serious narcissistic creep vibes from his pathetic badboy affectations, so he's still probably a rapist.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
Wasn't there some cases up in Canada of people involved in consensual BDSM activities getting arrested for assault or battery or something like that?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

Skwirl posted:

Wasn't there some cases up in Canada of people involved in consensual BDSM activities getting arrested for assault or battery or something like that?

This sounds like NXIVM, where that was the defense of their practices.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

Skwirl posted:

Wasn't there some cases up in Canada of people involved in consensual BDSM activities getting arrested for assault or battery or something like that?

As I mentioned above radio host Jian Ghomeshi tried to frame the assault allegations filed against him as consensual BDSM encounters.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Origami Dali posted:

Those encounters from that dork "rockstar" read like bog standard dom/sub poo poo to me, but I'm getting serious narcissistic creep vibes from his pathetic badboy affectations, so he's still probably a rapist.

The blog that was accumulating evidence and victim accounts got taken down, but some of it was repeated on other news sites. He did standard BDSM stuff, but one girl also wrote about he was having a bad day and needed to blow off steam so he basically beat her up and raped her. She didn't consent, but he was able to use her prior statements and extrapolate unlimited consent from them in case the cops came (which they did last year). He was also fond of not using a safe word, basically leaving the girls at his mercy, and there were claims of him using what were purportedly loaded guns during sex. It was ostensibly his kink, but one of the victims said there was an implied threat that he'd just kill them if they refused.

At least one other victim said that he has a death fetish so serious that he wanted his girls to kill themselves for him when he commanded it. None of them ever did as far as I know, but going back through his music you can definitely see hints of it with how much he fetishizes the death of a lover.

He released a very creepy song (which is much simpler than the rest of his songs and clearly phoned in as fast as possible) where he basically tells the girls to kill themselves because they're worthless without him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMw1bNVh0t0

Pirate Jet
May 2, 2010
^ Ya beat me!

Also worth mentioning that shortly after the accusations, William Control put out a new single where he tells an unnamed woman that’s she’s worthless filth who should kill themselves. :v:

EmptyVessel
Oct 30, 2012

Skwirl posted:

Wasn't there some cases up in Canada of people involved in consensual BDSM activities getting arrested for assault or battery or something like that?

Not Canada but Operation Spanner in the UK is another, older example.

kaworu
Jul 23, 2004

I was speaking in a very ironic tone - it does come across as way too blunt I shouldn't have written it that way. In the earlier paragraph I was exploring how on earth people like Control or Spacey could possibly convince themselves that posting the videos that they did was a "good idea". I was thinking that from Spacey's point of view, he'd have to think it a tasteful thing to do to try and mask his child-raping with a jokey 'ugly-but-campy' cooking apron and to act like he was the politician on the show he played doing a Nixon Checkers moment. It was unbelievably hideous in its own unique way, and with both him and Control I was trying to put myself in their mindset where doing this stuff is justified, and from that very dark point of view it seemed ironically worth noting that at least Kevin Spacey interjected humor in his own demented way instead of a boring and self-incriminating recitation. I was a bit punchy from watching 10+ minutes of that William Control video and felt sick while writing that whole post, so forgive me if I wasn't as clear as I should have been

Please do not accuse me of thinking that Spacey video was in good taste, good god :gonk:

kaworu fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Mar 18, 2019

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

kaworu posted:

I was speaking in a very ironic tone - it does come across as way too blunt I shouldn't have written it that way. In the earlier paragraph I was exploring how on earth people like Control or Spacey could possibly convince themselves that posting the videos that they did was a "good idea". I was thinking that from Spacey's point of view, he'd have to think it a tasteful thing to do to try and mask his child-raping with a jokey 'ugly-but-campy' cooking apron and to act like he was the politician on the show he played doing a Nixon Checkers moment. It was unbelievably hideous in its own unique way, and with both him and Control I was trying to put myself in their mindset where doing this stuff is justified, and from that very dark point of view it seemed ironically worth noting that at least Kevin Spacey interjected humor in his own demented way instead of a boring and self-incriminating recitation. I was a bit punchy from watching 10+ minutes of that William Control video and felt sick while writing that whole post, so forgive me if I wasn't as clear as I should have been

Please do not accuse me of thinking that Spacey video was in good taste, good god :gonk:

In Will's case, I think it's because he either legitimately thinks he did nothing wrong or thinks he's so secure in his legal protections that he can actually go out in public and post his victims' personal information and sexts without her permission to defend himself. His wife left him after everything came out and called him a "sociopath" before leaving social media (in part because he and his fans kept trying to stalk her there), which doesn't seem out of place. I'm going back through my earlier posts and I forgot that he was also accused of grooming underage girls.

My thought on "Can mentally ill people consent to BDSM" is the comparison to taking advantage of someone who's on drugs or otherwise in an altered state of consciousness. If a person only wants to have you hurt them (or otherwise commit acts that would be illegal without their consent) because a chemical imbalance in their brain is driving them to desire it, do you bear responsibility if you take advantage of that mental illness? And if you manipulate a person's mental illness to get something that you want, is it messed up in a way beyond just being scummy? Should it be?

I have a more personal connection to it because my ex-fiancee is into very extreme BDSM of this type and also suffers from a wide range of unmedicated illnesses, from BPD to bipolar disorder, and had suffered severe physical, emotional, and sexual abuse in childhood. One of the reasons our relationship eventually broke down is because I was uncomfortable with how many of her kinks and fantasies seemed to be imitating the abuse she had suffered and she often engaged in self-harm. I felt like I was being made an unwitting participant in something that was seriously messed up, whether it was taking the metaphorical position of an uncle who raped her or hurting her because otherwise she'd just do it to herself.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!

It still makes me :psyduck: that Spacey actually released that Frank Underwood video. I really wish we knew who was behind the camera, considering the social circles Spacey ran in.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Fart City posted:

It still makes me :psyduck: that Spacey actually released that Frank Underwood video. I really wish we knew who was behind the camera, considering the social circles Spacey ran in.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYrd3ajplcY

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/03/14/the-amber-heard-johnny-depp-domestic-abuse-case-just-got-even-messier-.html

Apparently Johnny Depp has filed a lawsuit against Amber Heard for her accusations of abuse. Both parties are now claiming to have solid video evidence that the other was the real abuser and are just lying about being a victim.

Assuming both are telling the truth, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both of them physically and emotionally abused each other throughout their relationship.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007
Did Momoa ever say anything about the story of him ripping out pages of Heards books?

Cease to Hope
Dec 12, 2011

chitoryu12 posted:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/03/14/the-amber-heard-johnny-depp-domestic-abuse-case-just-got-even-messier-.html

Apparently Johnny Depp has filed a lawsuit against Amber Heard for her accusations of abuse. Both parties are now claiming to have solid video evidence that the other was the real abuser and are just lying about being a victim.

Assuming both are telling the truth, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both of them physically and emotionally abused each other throughout their relationship.

I'm skeptical. DARVO is a real common strategy in these sorts of situations.

AceOfFlames
Oct 9, 2012


No matter how hard I try, I am never able to hear Urbaniak speak without picturing Rusty Venture saying those words.

Doesn’t help that Rusty is the sort of guy who’d totally do something like this as long as you paid him.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Cease to Hope posted:

I'm skeptical. DARVO is a real common strategy in these sorts of situations.

I'm skeptical too, but the divorce is already finalized, and he's not being investigated for possible criminal charges. Defamation suits are also notoriously hard to win, even more so if you're famous, so his lawyers probably think he has a good shot at winning, and even so aren't likely taking the case on a contingency basis.

It's debatable the accusations against him have seriously impacted his career, he didn't get fired from the Harry Potter prequels, and he didn't seem to be blamed for the new one's lovely reception and he's got 5 more movies on his IMDB page listed after that.

Much like we say to believe women since usually the cost of revealing abuse is higher for the victim than the perpetrator, the same can be said of Depp in this case, at the very least people are going to be talking about her accusations again, when it had largely died down.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


The Kevin Spacey vid is one of the most unintentionally terrifying things ever. He looks like Bella loving Lugosi.

sponges
Sep 15, 2011

chitoryu12 posted:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/03/14/the-amber-heard-johnny-depp-domestic-abuse-case-just-got-even-messier-.html

Apparently Johnny Depp has filed a lawsuit against Amber Heard for her accusations of abuse. Both parties are now claiming to have solid video evidence that the other was the real abuser and are just lying about being a victim.

Assuming both are telling the truth, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both of them physically and emotionally abused each other throughout their relationship.

This got ugly

There was an article written about Depp last summer and he comes across as this lonely drunken sad sack.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

MacheteZombie posted:

Did Momoa ever say anything about the story of him ripping out pages of Heards books?

Probably not because it was most likely actors messing around.

Anonymous John
Mar 8, 2002

chitoryu12 posted:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/03/14/the-amber-heard-johnny-depp-domestic-abuse-case-just-got-even-messier-.html

Apparently Johnny Depp has filed a lawsuit against Amber Heard for her accusations of abuse. Both parties are now claiming to have solid video evidence that the other was the real abuser and are just lying about being a victim.

Assuming both are telling the truth, it's not out of the realm of possibility that both of them physically and emotionally abused each other throughout their relationship.

Man that's one hell of a photo to start the article with, Amber Heard with the crazy eyes and Johnny Deep looking sad at the camera.

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

CelticPredator posted:

Probably not because it was most likely actors messing around.

Yeah, this story always felt a little bloated to try to prove some bro-y behaviour when it's a really basic, dumb prank.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Anonymous John posted:

Man that's one hell of a photo to start the article with, Amber Heard with the crazy eyes and Johnny Deep looking sad at the camera.

Their expressions look really similar.

God Hole
Mar 2, 2016

kaworu posted:

I was speaking in a very ironic tone - it does come across as way too blunt I shouldn't have written it that way. In the earlier paragraph I was exploring how on earth people like Control or Spacey could possibly convince themselves that posting the videos that they did was a "good idea".

I can't speak for Spacey but in William Control's case, he's a sadomasochistic narcissist, he needs praise and devotion. Those are hard things to come by when you're a total pariah.

Click on the video and read the comments.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
William Control as a name is way too on the nose, I'm still not certain it's real.

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