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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:And if that's greyed out? Robo-mod them into a new sub species and set the living standards to purge.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:08
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binge crotching posted:Robo-mod them into a new sub species and set the living standards to purge. Thanks.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:12
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ConfusedUs posted:Giving beads and trinkets to restless natives: proven to work even in the future.
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Mar 18, 2019 22:37
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I don't know if this is a known issue, but this is the first time I've run into it- capturing planets as a devouring swarm, the unrest from captured pops is being expressed as deviant drones, I guess? Random non-hiveminded pops are being labeled deviant drones, and I'm getting deviant drone events that don't seem to make sense given that they aren't actually my species.
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Mar 19, 2019 03:49
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I don't know if this is a known issue, but this is the first time I've run into it- capturing planets as a devouring swarm, the unrest from captured pops is being expressed as deviant drones, I guess? Random non-hiveminded pops are being labeled deviant drones, and I'm getting deviant drone events that don't seem to make sense given that they aren't actually my species. To a hive mind, every other species pop is a deviant drone, at least conceptually.
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Mar 19, 2019 04:37
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Ran into a bug where gene-modding your assimilated Bio-pops as a Driven Assimilator makes you re-assimilate them. It crashed my economy in about five seconds 
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Mar 19, 2019 04:44
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AnEdgelord posted:Ran into a bug where gene-modding your assimilated Bio-pops as a Driven Assimilator makes you re-assimilate them. It crashed my economy in about five seconds Yeah any time I mod anything they all get put out of work for a few months, before abruptly going back to work, no problem.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:47
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I don't know if this is a known issue, but this is the first time I've run into it- capturing planets as a devouring swarm, the unrest from captured pops is being expressed as deviant drones, I guess? Random non-hiveminded pops are being labeled deviant drones, and I'm getting deviant drone events that don't seem to make sense given that they aren't actually my species. I had the reverse issue where I conquered a hive planet, and some drones became criminals. Which was great. All getting a hint of sentience and using that spark to hold up a convenience store.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:54
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Operation Overwhelming Fallen Machine Empire with 1200 Corvettes: Success. Lost like 300 of the little guys.
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Mar 19, 2019 05:57
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Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I don't know if this is a known issue, but this is the first time I've run into it- capturing planets as a devouring swarm, the unrest from captured pops is being expressed as deviant drones, I guess? Random non-hiveminded pops are being labeled deviant drones, and I'm getting deviant drone events that don't seem to make sense given that they aren't actually my species. Determined Exterminators have the same problem. I guess people don't like being turned into batteries.
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Mar 19, 2019 06:14
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I had a bunch of unemployed robots (regular basic models) and it triggered events where I needed to supply them with extra consumer goods or get crime problems. Are they doing illegal mining and farming? -Inefficient use of agriculture detected. Replacing straw crop with potatoes. Beep Boop. -Get off my lawn you dumb robutt!
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Mar 19, 2019 08:45
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Poil posted:I had a bunch of unemployed robots (regular basic models) and it triggered events where I needed to supply them with extra consumer goods or get crime problems. Are they doing illegal mining and farming?
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Mar 19, 2019 09:52
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After 300 something hours, I finally got to an endgame crisis. I rolled the Prethyrons, moved my fleet to their invasion points and.. I utterly annihilated them. Something must've gone wrong, and I suspect it was me killing them too fast, since the next wave never spawned, forcing me to sit the following 40 years skipping messages, just to get my drat game completion cheevo. 40 years of background chittering noises, since I needed to know when pop-ups would stop the game from progressing. What a letdown.
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Mar 19, 2019 10:53
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If you kill the Vanguard fast enough the main fleet fucks off. Gonna invade this galaxy!  
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Mar 19, 2019 12:55
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Multiplayer balance is really messed up atm. In 3 games in mapgoons fleet rushing has been king and people going supremacy first will pick up 3-4 tributaries very quickly depending on player density and snowball from there. In our current game I’m playing a crime Corp and my tributaries are a vassal type (subsidiary) which means they get pulled into wars with me and can’t break free as long as we’re at war. I’ve been thinking about ways to deal with it and I’m honestly just thinking about making a custom mod that removes nihilistic acquisition and tossing potent rebellions in for good measure to put slow down conquests. Similarly the pacing of the game seems really out of whack since players can resettle and I kind of want to just turn off the policy at a mod level too, but it’d require a lot more work and rebalancing. My basic idea is to roll migration buffs into the colony development techs to make them actually relevant.
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Mar 19, 2019 13:11
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Darkrenown posted:If you kill the Vanguard fast enough the main fleet fucks off. It did have a sorta C&C3 era Kane feel to it.
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Mar 19, 2019 13:14
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THE BAR posted:After 300 something hours, I finally got to an endgame crisis. I rolled the Prethyrons, moved my fleet to their invasion points and..
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Mar 19, 2019 13:22
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Best Friends posted:I had the reverse issue where I conquered a hive planet, and some drones became criminals. Which was great. All getting a hint of sentience and using that spark to hold up a convenience store. I imagine this as them making a legit go of continuing to fight the war on behalf of their hive. But since they're individually not that smart, this is their best effort.
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Mar 19, 2019 13:31
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Darkrenown posted:If you kill the Vanguard fast enough the main fleet fucks off. Is that deliberate? I've only managed to do it once (they appeared in my territory when I had 5 fleets of like 150k so I was lucky) and I got an event saying the scourge is defeated! But then I still got the one saying they were arriving, they just never did. Talkie Toaster posted:The crisis, like leviathans and space monsters, suffers horribly from the way fleets scale. Fleet power scales logarithmically from 100s early-game to 100,000s lategame, whilst fleet effectiveness is linear- 2000 power will always beat 1000. Every threat goes from insurmountable to challenging to trivial over the span of ~20 years. They really need to knock an order of magnitude off the fleet power range, and have some kind of rubber-banding on the crisis where you get a higher damage bonus against it the more ships & planets you lose to it. Tried modding that in, but doing it via research was a pain. No. It's nice how it is. If you could only beat it after it'd been smashing you up a bit I'd just quit the game, that's not fun.
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Mar 19, 2019 13:41
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Demiurge4 posted:Multiplayer balance is really messed up atm. In 3 games in mapgoons fleet rushing has been king and people going supremacy first will pick up 3-4 tributaries very quickly depending on player density and snowball from there. In our current game I’m playing a crime Corp and my tributaries are a vassal type (subsidiary) which means they get pulled into wars with me and can’t break free as long as we’re at war. Rushing supremacy and fleets has always been king though? This is like wanting a "no rush 15 mins" rts game: fine if that is what you all want, but not something broken with the game. Playing in a heavily competitive game or against high levels of AI will require you to invest into fleets, and if you fail to do so you'll end up getting stomped. Supremacy isn't required but increases what you get for the same investment (cheaper ships, extra naval cap, small amount of fire rate). Essentially you need to play less greedy in order to not leave yourself open.
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Mar 19, 2019 14:03
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It's deliberate, but it shouldn't tell you they are arriving later if they aren't - I guess that the "main wave arriving event" is just timed and then tries to spawn the next wave in systems the vanguard holds.
Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 14:04
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ZypherIM posted:Rushing supremacy and fleets has always been king though? This is like wanting a "no rush 15 mins" rts game: fine if that is what you all want, but not something broken with the game. There isn’t anything a player that doesn’t go for a ship rush can do against one that does. Supremacy nets you an incredible 43% fire rate on its own and it’s a massive force multiplier, on top of that a rush player will have militarist or fanatic militarist for another 10-20%. Unless you ruin your entire early game economy to have more ships you will be eaten and even if you aren’t, you will be sooner or later because the rush player won’t have expended half the resources you did.
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Mar 19, 2019 14:24
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Demiurge4 posted:Unless you ruin your entire early game economy to have more ships you will be eaten and even if you aren’t, you will be sooner or later because the rush player won’t have expended half the resources you did. In SP, instead of going Nihilistic Acquisition I have simply been claiming and taking worlds, resettling the pops on it to my existing planets, then either abandoning it or leaving just one pop on it for pop growth. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 14:47
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Demiurge4 posted:There isn’t anything a player that doesn’t go for a ship rush can do against one that does. Supremacy nets you an incredible 43% fire rate on its own and it’s a massive force multiplier, on top of that a rush player will have militarist or fanatic militarist for another 10-20%. So the only way you're looking at 43% fire rate is if you run no retreat, which means your fleet now has 0 disengagement chance which then translates into "if you gently caress up at all you lose your entire fleet and are turbo-hosed". You'll also lose a lot of ability to conduct more than one war or consecutive wars. You'll be expending a gently caress-ton of extra resources to make up for losses. Being realistic, you're not going to do that, and instead supremacy is +10% fire rate and +33% disengagement chance in order to cut down on losses. Which both sides can take, or the defender can take "home territory fire rate +10%". You aren't "ruining your entire early game economy", unless you're comparing that to not investing at all. Invest as much as the player trying to rush, plus the amount extra you need to hold. Again, the best comparison to pull from is RTS games: against an enemy employing a rush strategy, you will have to stop investing in economy in order to not die. Sure, your economy is worse than what it would be if you invested nothing, but your economy is still better than being defeated wholesale.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:01
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Why would I want to cut down on losses when my ships aren't disengaging and shooting longer and more often? No retreat is a massive force multiplier and guarantees you an automatic win against an equal size fleet. Edit: In an early game rush there are only two battles that matter, the initial choke point battle with a starbase and the homeworld. If your enemy is using the retreat chance policy and you are using the fire rate policy you've won, automatic. Your ships have at least 50% more effective HP because his jump out of the fight early and you now have the border fort, which you can repair on. You then sail off to the homeworld and take down the players only shipyard and that's it. Demiurge4 fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 15:03
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Demiurge4 posted:Why would I want to cut down on losses when my ships aren't disengaging and shooting longer and more often? No retreat is a massive force multiplier and guarantees you an automatic win against an equal size fleet. See the issue is that you're basing your theory on a couple things that won't always hold true. What happens if fleet sizes aren't equal? What happens if you're forced to fight through more than 1 starbase, or a starbase with defenses+fleet? What happens if they tell another player "hey Demiurge4 is doing an all-in early rush setup" and team up against you? I can probably come up with some other plausible situations that could occur that turn the no retreat doctrine into a massive drawback, which is why usually you'd use hit and run to ensure that you take minimal losses and are more ready for unexpected situations. By the way, you should compare your +43% to the fact that your opponent will have +20% from their supremacy investment. So you're trading 23% fire rate for not being able to disengage. Ships deal less damage the more hull they're missing (missing%/2), and the defenders ships don't automatically disengage at 50% so you don't have "at least 50% more effective hp" (and 50% hull isn't even 50% of your effective HP, c'mon). Why are you also assuming that they only have 1 shipyard? It really sounds like you're basing this on fighting players who aren't investing nearly as much into defense as you are in offense, and are catching them with their pants down.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:23
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I’m assuming this because I have a well developed timeline of my early game that goes straight to building an extra alloy foundry on my homeworld, another when my mineral income hits 40 and then saving up 1800 alloys until I get the upkeep and cost reduction picks from supremacy, timing the completion of my first fleet to when supremacy is fully unlocked and declaring war. If you have time to build a fleet, a border fort and another starbase with a shipyard and the alloys to build a second fleet to prepare for this then I want to know about your strategy.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:31
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How many ships are people usually rushing with? I don't multiplayer much. Increase starting ship numbers? If people are charging in with 20 ships with an admiral maybe start with 10 ships and a free admiral. 10 ships and an admiral and a starbase vs 25 boosted ships with admirals will probably fare better than 3 ships with no admiral and a starbase vs 20 boosted ships with admirals.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:45
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It depends on tech too, I was able to pull my strat off last time with blue lasers and afterburners, which netted my fleet 1.8k against 700 ( had about 28 ships I think). The border starbase doesn't have enough effective HP to stand up long enough to do any damage.
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Mar 19, 2019 15:48
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ZypherIM posted:It really sounds like you're basing this on fighting players who aren't investing nearly as much into defense as you are in offense, and are catching them with their pants down. So what? If they're investing as much into defense as you are into offense, you're not falling behind economically by rushing. Turtling up only works as a strategy when you can successfully defend by spending substantially less than the attacker.
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Mar 19, 2019 16:30
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Jabor posted:So what? If they're investing as much into defense as you are into offense, you're not falling behind economically by rushing. Turtling up only works as a strategy when you can successfully defend by spending substantially less than the attacker. The attacker is the person who has given up long-term growth options (through ethos, civics, traits, and/or general strategy), and requires a successful war in order to make up this deficit. The majority of the defender's defense is still a mobile fleet which will continue to be useful. They're likely to have a stronger set of ethos/civics/traits in terms of long-term strength, so they're able to start economy stuff back up faster. Demiurge4 posted:It depends on tech too, I was able to pull my strat off last time with blue lasers and afterburners, which netted my fleet 1.8k against 700 ( had about 28 ships I think). The border starbase doesn't have enough effective HP to stand up long enough to do any damage. What year are you launching this finely calculated attack, and what CB are you using? How many systems are you tending to take, and are you delaying your initial colonies? 700 sounds suspiciously like someone without supremacy and probably not even 20 corvettes, but I'll have to go check.
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Mar 19, 2019 16:59
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Darkrenown posted:It's deliberate, but it should tell you they are arriving later if they aren't - I guess that the "main wave arriving event" is just timed and then tries to spawm the next wave in systems the vanguard holds. Thanks for confirming that Darkrenown. ZypherIM posted:700 sounds suspiciously like someone without supremacy and probably not even 20 corvettes, but I'll have to go check. I'm going to say that since minerals/alloys got split I've had no issue always having a maximised fleet. I do always build alloy plants on my home world though.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:02
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I'm using the tributary CB and obviously I'm not attacking equal players, because I can't use the CB unless they're inferior. If I were to have another rush strat player next to me I'd move to either get a non-aggression so we can expand in opposite directions or team up against a third player. The starting point of this conversation was that rush strats are too strong unless everyone does it.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:02
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Demiurge4 posted:I'm using the tributary CB and obviously I'm not attacking equal players, because I can't use the CB unless they're inferior. If I were to have another rush strat player next to me I'd move to either get a non-aggression so we can expand in opposite directions or team up against a third player. The starting point of this conversation was that rush strats are too strong unless everyone does it. The fact that you're able to even use the tributary CB means the players in your game are being too greedy and leaving themselves open. In a game where it keeps getting dominated by people doing a rush strat, betting that you won't start near one is silly. Also, what year are you tending to be launching your attack?
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Mar 19, 2019 17:10
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Thing I learned yesterday: sometimes, when you start clearing out the dwamak-people, they can flip out and go Khanate fifteen years before schedule. 
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Mar 19, 2019 17:11
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In a game where combat can easily turn on small differences in combat power, and the diplomatic options are pretty limited (especially in multiplayer), going all in on military options is typically going to be the safest bet every time. That is particularly true when games are set up with large numbers of civs for their size, which increases the likelihood of early conflict. All that being said, the multiplayer combat aspect of Stellaris is pretty underwhelming and requires very little mastery, so it's not surprising that people want to focus on different parts of the game.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:21
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There was a brief period when the Apocalypse expansion came out when corvette rushing was mediocre, since you could only rush neighbors, corvettes were twice as expensive as other ships, and the mineral upkeep was an active detriment to your economy. Otherwise, corvette rushing has been a dominant strategy since the beginning of the game. When stellaris released, the dominant strategy was to rush your neighbor's first colony. When LeGuin released, it was to rush your neighbor's starbase, since they were made of tissue paper. Now, you can ignore energy upkeep by using the market, and tributary everyone without restriction. The thing is, with casus belli, this doesn't have to be the case. Paradox could move conquest/tribute casus belli to a tier 2 or 3 technology, and that would allow people to expand/tech without getting rushed immediately. In other paradox games the player never starts with something as strong as the current casus belli, too.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:27
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scaterry posted:When LeGuin released, it was to rush your neighbor's starbase, since they were made of tissue paper. Now, you can ignore energy upkeep by using the market, and tributary everyone without restriction. I'm finding this to be less the case in the beta. Atleast till you get more naval capacity or destroyers. Starbases keep mulching my first corvette fleets especially when backed up by a small fleet.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:40
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You mean y'all arent just clicking the big "assimilate" button on the CB screen? smdh
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Mar 19, 2019 17:43
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prefect posted:Thing I learned yesterday: sometimes, when you start clearing out the dwamak-people, they can flip out and go Khanate fifteen years before schedule. My favourite marauder event is when you finish their last stations and then they get in touch to say "Rargh you bastards we're going to kill you" and it tells you a fleet is going to attack you from them. It's never once actually spawned for me.
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Mar 19, 2019 18:03
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