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The input lag kills it for me. I feel the difference going from Tekken 7 on PC to playing it at my local scene on a PS4 and that is only a couple of frames. When I could visibly see the delay between the dude on stage pressing buttons in that one game (Assassin's Creed? https://gfycat.com/idealisticshabbyafricanharrierhawk) I lost all interest. I suppose it'd be fine for turn based games, but I don't really play enough of those.
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Mar 19, 2019 19:51
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Accordion Man posted:It's really clear that this hasn't left Silicon Valley board rooms because anybody that's not a fart sniffing techbro could tell you that American Internet speeds that the ISPs allow can't make this viable. Ya this currently not feasible other than to a super small minority. Or until we get 5G national wide but we have only started budgeting for that.
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Mar 19, 2019 19:52
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I hope they replace game loading screens with ads 
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Mar 19, 2019 19:53
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pixaal posted:I'm going to say this probably looks really good if you plug a monitor in and actually look at wherever it is streaming from. It's the compression for the streaming that is making it look like rear end.
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Mar 19, 2019 19:53
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rabbotic posted:I hope they replace game loading screens with ads They will be replaced with a YouTube personality saying the n word
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Mar 19, 2019 19:54
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Feels Villeneuve posted:They will be replaced with a YouTube personality saying the n word Subscribe to PewDiePie!
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Mar 19, 2019 19:55
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How are u posted:I am really surprised to see this thing being panned across the internet. It is absolutely the future of playing games. I think the implications are interesting, at the very least. Everything said in this keynote sounds cool in a weird "this is how things are going to be in 5-10 years" kind of way, but there are absolutely a poo poo ton of drawbacks with this kind of service. The idea of not needing a console, being able to plug in a Chromecast, or having an app pre-loaded on your TV that lets you play super high quality videogames at a perfect frame rate is really intriguing. I think performance/input lag in a non-lab environment and pricing will go a long way in telling us how this thing is actually going to be. If I can rent some games through this and get my fill without ever having to install them and have zero-to-imperceptible input lag, this could be pretty neat, but I'm really not holding my breath. I think a lot of the doomsayers are worried about losing the ability to mod games, or keep games locally to play offline.. Those kind of things will still be around, this isn't replacing anything. I am absolutely skeptical as poo poo about this. I wanted to try the project stream stuff to see how well that kind of thing held up at my home internet which is GOOD, but definitely not great or even approaching anywhere near fiber optic speeds. We'll see if they announce anything concrete, I think they'd at the very least need to offer a free trial to anyone just to see how this thing really works to sell it to people so hopefully we get something like that sooner than later.
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Mar 19, 2019 19:59
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Also you should be able to get some idea of how well this is likely to work by just logging onto Playstation Now, which is basically the same thing. Also Microsoft are working on a game-streaming project of their own and are probably better placed than Google to make it actually happen.
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Mar 19, 2019 19:59
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explosivo posted:I think the implications are interesting, at the very least. Everything said in this keynote sounds cool in a weird "this is how things are going to be in 5-10 years" kind of way IIRC there are a couple of European ISPs that already offer a similar service. You can stream Arkham City with Telecom Italia: https://www.tim.it/smart-life/tv-entertainment/timgames So the question of how viable it is technically should at least be answerable by looking at how good all the competing services already are.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:02
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A factor is that technology is near to the point of taking advantage of anything developers want to throw at it. Besides increasing resolution and marginally increased texture quality, more powerful hardware won't benefit the vast majority of games released today. There is a reason why developers have little problem porting titles to the Switch. Compare that to last generation when titles like Dead Rising were cut down to the point of not even being the same game on Nintendo's hardware.
punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 20:04
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Microsoft with Azure is actually better positioned to make a push into "cloud" gaming from a consumer standpoint than Google, no matter how many graphs of lines connecting dots to a picture of a controller that Google puts out. Google has tight integration with web services and machine learning, but none of that makes the stream go faster or look better. If xCloud suffers from the same problems as OnLive and Now and Stadia then it's time to shelve game streaming for another 5 years.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:06
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Zephro posted:This is how things were a decade ago when OnLive launched with the same business model. It crashed and burned because of lag, basically. Playstation Now has existed for 5 years at this point but - given that a lot of the coverage is treating this announcement as some kind of technical breakthrough - doesn't seem to have exactly taken the market by storm. Oh, I distinctly remember trying to play LA Noire over OnLive and.. hooboy was that bad. I'm not saying things are going to be different this time around but I do think if anyone could provide enough horsepower and make it marketable enough to make this even remotely successful it would probably be Google? Maybe? I don't really know, a lot of this stuff is cool in theory but for all the reasons already brought up here this is such a crapshoot.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:07
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As others have mentioned how will you access older games? Are they going to keep old hardware around for games that don't run on new equipment? Will you "own" games or simply rent them? I go back and play games in my library because I have them, if they aren't easily accessible via streaming or I have to pay to rent them again I probably won't go back and play them.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:10
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I said come in! posted:This was Google Fiber. It was quickly destroyed by the big internet service providers and their exclusive region contracts that create monopolies. This framing is far, far too generous to Google. In my neck of the woods, Google Fiber fizzled out primarily because they found out that significant municipal infrastructure projects require negotiating with a wide variety of public and private parties, which happens on a timescale measured in years rather than months... and then they just gave up. Google has no grand vision for what it wants to do and no real business pressure to do anything sensible as long as the ad money keeps flowing, and so it just bounces from one half-assed project to another. Most of Google's non-search business ventures consist of some high-ranking goober getting an idea and convincing other high-ranking goobers to pour all that search-engine ad money into it for a few years, only to then realize that what they've gotten into is either far more complex they anticipated or has an ROI that's short of the once-in-a-generation, impossible-to-replicate ROI of their search engine, and then they drop it and move to the next goober's idea.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:12
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Blotto_Otter posted:This framing is far, far too generous to Google. In my neck of the woods, Google Fiber fizzled out primarily because they found out that significant municipal infrastructure projects require negotiating with a wide variety of public and private parties, which happens on a timescale measured in years rather than months... and then they just gave up. Yeah they are way too unstable a company to trust any of their products. At least they are showing us what Microsoft and Sony are doing in private.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:15
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Everyone saying they don't like not owning a game fine, but think about how much you'd save if you didn't need a gaming computer? A $500 computer will work just as well as a $2,500 gaming computer. The tech is not ready, the compression is all over the place and properly solving it is probably going to require coding games specially with this in mind. Delay can be accounted for. Nintendo did syncing the display on the controller with the TV over wireless for the WiiU. There was some trickery there if I remember the technical details behind it where it should be impossible but it works. I think this is doable but we are currently seeing the Virtual Boy implementation of VR. We're probably decades away from this being a viable replacement to modern gaming. It will be a massive cost savings though.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:17
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The biggest misstep Google took today was not discussing pricing.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:19
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explosivo posted:If I can rent some games through this and get my fill without ever having to install them and have zero-to-imperceptible input lag, this could be pretty neat, but I'm really not holding my breath.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:20
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Popete posted:As others have mentioned how will you access older games? Are they going to keep old hardware around for games that don't run on new equipment? Will you "own" games or simply rent them? Are they going to use consoles at all? I figured everything was just running on Google's giant server farms, so it would be PC games only
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Mar 19, 2019 20:21
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Are they going to use consoles at all? I figured everything was just running on Google's giant server farms, so it would be PC games only Correct, their data centers are using a custom 16GB DDR5 AMD GPU.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:21
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People who complain about 30ms of input lag but play games on their HDTV that's doing post processing resolution scaling with a bluetooth controller. The tech is there to get negligible input lag for most gaming experiences. It's not a boundary of physics or anything. It's just Google is doing it really sloppily from what we've seen.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:22
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That input lag is  American McGay posted:People who complain about 30ms of input lag but play games on their HDTV that's doing post processing resolution scaling with a bluetooth controller. Google going to use FTL internet for Stadia.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:23
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American McGay posted:Microsoft with Azure is actually better positioned to make a push into "cloud" gaming from a consumer standpoint than Google, no matter how many graphs of lines connecting dots to a picture of a controller that Google puts out. Google has tight integration with web services and machine learning, but none of that makes the stream go faster or look better. explosivo posted:Oh, I distinctly remember trying to play LA Noire over OnLive and.. hooboy was that bad. I'm not saying things are going to be different this time around but I do think if anyone could provide enough horsepower and make it marketable enough to make this even remotely successful it would probably be Google? Maybe? I don't really know, a lot of this stuff is cool in theory but for all the reasons already brought up here this is such a crapshoot.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:24
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the tech is not ready, we just need to figure out how to break the laws of physics first
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Mar 19, 2019 20:25
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Are they going to use consoles at all? I figured everything was just running on Google's giant server farms, so it would be PC games only Even with PC games over time if they aren't updated they won't run on newer hardware or OS environment without some work being put in to make them.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:25
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American McGay posted:People who complain about 30ms of input lag but play games on their HDTV that's doing post processing resolution scaling with a bluetooth controller. The gif here looked closer to 500 ms. 30ms input lag would probably be reasonable for most games other than super time-based ones like tekken or whatever, but hiccups or fluctuations in network quality could make the lag temporarily unplayably bad.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:26
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The input lag on steam link already sucks and that's in my house, on a wired network. I can only imagine trying to play DOOM Eternal with 10x as much lag, minimum. lol
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Mar 19, 2019 20:26
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pixaal posted:The tech is not ready, the compression is all over the place and properly solving it is probably going to require coding games specially with this in mind. Delay can be accounted for. Nintendo did syncing the display on the controller with the TV over wireless for the WiiU. There was some trickery there if I remember the technical details behind it where it should be impossible but it works.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:28
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big nipples big life posted:The input lag on steam link already sucks and that's in my house, on a wired network. I can only imagine trying to play DOOM Eternal with 10x as much lag, minimum. lol Same, my Steamlink is always right on the edge of 'fine dont worry about it' and 'this is horrid' depending on a variety of factors. I have high hopes for the ability to play a game that is running in California from my snapdragon phone in Texas over Wi-fi 
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Mar 19, 2019 20:30
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Your Computer posted:the tech is not ready, we just need to figure out how to break the laws of physics first Also, I don't think this is targeted at the l33t Esp0rtz crowd who buy 2080Tis so they can run Counter-Strike at minimum detail level but 500fps. If you can replace the upfront purchase cost of a console or a gaming PC with a monthly sub you make things a lot more attractive for a lot of people who don't currently play video games. I would assume the point is to grow the market by making gaming cheaper, not attract the most hardcore of the existing userbase.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:30
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https://twitter.com/michaelphigham/status/1108086085077237760 Google Stadia: Not The Best Maybe?™
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Mar 19, 2019 20:31
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Zephro posted:I would assume the point is to grow the market by making gaming cheaper, not attract the most hardcore of the existing userbase. The point is to get more people on YouTube and the Google ecosystem.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:32
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American McGay posted:https://twitter.com/michaelphigham/status/1108086085077237760 Lol, well that was fast. When the demos at the convention show it being awful, this doesn't bode well.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:32
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If "not the best maybe?" is the best you can come up with at their own demo OOOF.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:33
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It's just funny because it's using their own devices so they have an assuredly stable high-speed connection with every steps taken to make sure it's optimal and it's still probably worse than a Steamlink whose input delay most people can't handle.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:35
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the important thing is that this will create more opportunities for the Youtube Algorithm to be exposed to children, a situation that is definitely not incomprehensibly monstrous
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Mar 19, 2019 20:37
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Popete posted:The point is to get more people on YouTube and the Google ecosystem. I'm still pretty sceptical that it can be made to work technically, but you can see why the idea would appeal in theory.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:37
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https://twitter.com/prodiGtv/status/1108072829285814272 It's dead Jim.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:38
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The 7th Guest posted:The WiiU streaming was through local Miracast and it has a really horrible range. Not remotely the same as streaming from a remote data center. I didn't mean to imply it was the same, that can be read that way I'm very sorry. I'm well aware of people requesting a ping faster than the speed of light and having to explain that it's impossible because of the speed of light. I love giving a conference room a physics lesson then being asked why don't you just make c bigger. (My go to reply is only God can change c and he made it just under 300million m/s) I was more pointing out before the WiiU everyone thought that was going to be impossible. There's also some buffering going on if I remember correctly. You can reduce input lag the same way we made computer processors faster, predictive execution. This does mean a game would have to fork and attempt to predict player input and start rendering things as if the player had done different possible inputs and only send the correct ones. Yes I'm describing future tech, because I don't think this is viable for another 30+ years and that's what it's going to take to make it viable. What Google has is Virtual Boy all red lines at 7FPS that give you a headache. My wiiU comparison was probably dumb. I'm pulling my info from hazy memories from the WiiU thread around launch. I swear they were doing something clever to keep it in sync with the TV. pixaal fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Mar 19, 2019 |
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Mar 19, 2019 20:38
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big nipples big life posted:If "not the best maybe?" is the best you can come up with at their own demo OOOF. Like, console booths would have the games running on PCs just to leave a better impression. If this is the best they can showcase in prepared demos, I wonder what it will be like when the games roll out.
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Mar 19, 2019 20:39
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