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P-Mack posted:Yeah and a laggy mouse cursor feels absolutely horrible. Just directly controlling a cursor on the client/cloud (essentially just emulating a mouse remotely) is the wrong way to go about this kind of a thing. You'd just give meaningful inputs to the cloud when the user actually clicks something and give coordinates to the cloud machine, so no "laggy dragging" of the mouse should be present in basic input. The cursor should be rendered locally. Mouse look can be a little... problematic in my experience. I've used Parsec to do some basic dungeons and even savage raiding from my main desktop that was around 200 km/125 miles away in FFXIV.
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Mar 20, 2019 23:11
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when i had a trial for onLive i am pretty sure i remember that more "gestural" controls, like twin-stick move/look in a 3D game, felt less janky than menu and cursor controls. the menu and cursor stuff is really obvious because it's push butan -> oh hey the butan press hasn't gone through yet. but move/look stuff wasn't as bad because it felt more "fluid" even though there were definitely times you could feel the lag a bit
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Mar 20, 2019 23:20
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Lutha Mahtin posted:when i had a trial for onLive i am pretty sure i remember that more "gestural" controls, like twin-stick move/look in a 3D game, felt less janky than menu and cursor controls. the menu and cursor stuff is really obvious because it's push butan -> oh hey the butan press hasn't gone through yet. but move/look stuff wasn't as bad because it felt more "fluid" even though there were definitely times you could feel the lag a bit A lot of console games already have pretty hefty input lag. Add image processing lag from a cheaper TV or one that's in the wrong display mode, and things can already get pretty soupy even on a home console. RDR2 was particularly bad for it, and so noticeable that I personally couldn't finish the game because it felt so awful to play. However, it's one of the most critically acclaimed and bestselling games of all time, even with 10 frames of input lag (about what DF found in their tests for Stadia) So I can definitely see people picking up Stadia, playing a game with the same input lag they're already accustomed to, and thinking that it's some sort of black magic how streaming a game feels exactly the same as playing on their PS4. 
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Mar 20, 2019 23:35
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Just out of curiosity, why is everyone predicting doom and gloom for this based on failures from the past? I'm not convinced it'll work either for good reasons, but I'm hopeful and I'm glad to see someone with Google's resource give it a real try. I guarantee they have an army of people infinitely smarter than me and you invested for now, and if it isn't running flawlessly for the entire planet at launch, that doesn't mean we should kill and bury it. Not to mention a company like Google trying to brute force this into existence means they fund and develop technology that may benefit us in a variety of ways, even if streaming games fails. Kind of reminds me of all the poo poo-talk out there about VR and I freaking love VR, even in its infancy. Can't wait to see VR evolve, looking forward to this too. Chewbot fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 04:59
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Chewbot posted:I guarantee they have an army of people infinitely smarter than me and you invested for now If I've learned nothing else in life it's that there are very few people on Earth who are significantly smarter than everyone else. What Google will have is a team of people with various skill sets who are most certainly very talented and knowledgeable in their specific fields but are as dumb as everyone else when outside of that narrow specialty. But it will come down to whether or not they have a capable project manager to execute and bring it together. But Google has a long history of coming up with cool, industry changing ideas that are going to disrupt everything with new technologies and then totally bungling the execution and abandoning it after a few months or years.
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Mar 21, 2019 08:39
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Kotaku UK: Google Stadia Boss Answers (And Dodges) Our QuestionsPhil Harrison posted:We were able to test a lot of this with our Project Stream test late last year, starting back in October. To get 1080p, 60 frames per second, required approximately 25 megabits per second. In fact, we use less than that, but that’s where we put our recommended limit at. But with innovations that we’ve made on the streamer side and on the compression side since then, when we launch, we will be able to get to 4K but only raise that bandwidth to about 30 megabits per second. So if you have less bandwidth, we’ll give you a lower resolution… We do a lot of that for you in the background, and we will only offer up the appropriate bandwidth for the infrastructure that you have. Frankly, I'm just surprised Phil Harrison was able to find more work after tanking the launches of the PS3 and XB1.
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Mar 21, 2019 09:27
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Chewbot posted:Just out of curiosity, why is everyone predicting doom and gloom for this based on failures from the past? Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. Also American ISPs.
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Mar 21, 2019 10:18
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So rhis is basically just an intense version of a browser game, right?
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Mar 21, 2019 12:09
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Tired Moritz posted:So rhis is basically just an intense version of a browser game, right? No man, it's a browser version of your intense console game!
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Mar 21, 2019 12:51
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Chewbot posted:Just out of curiosity, why is everyone predicting doom and gloom for this based on failures from the past? People predict doom and gloom because Google has a long history of pushing services that they refuse to properly support with all their resources and then abruptly terminate when some spreadsheet calculation turns out the wrong way. Google specifically has pushed a major internet infrastructure project before and unceremoniously cancelled it when they ran into the first sign of trouble. You think people shouldn’t be skeptical? Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 13:25 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 13:23
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this tech is absolutely the future of MMOs and you'll be able to do a ton of cool poo poo in that space but it's gonna take a long time to roll out. that's the only real exciting part of it. I expect Microsoft to come out with pretty much the same thing now except also with a home console that has the same specs as one of their cloud instances. 'proceed as normal but you can also play your xbox games on your phone/laptop/switch when you're not at home' is a much stronger pitch for the here and now.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:15
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The Kins posted:Kotaku UK: Google Stadia Boss Answers (And Dodges) Our Questions What? 25 megabits might be tough for a lot of the US outside major cities I guess, but throughout Europe speeds above that are pretty standard by now.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:53
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Bardeh posted:What? 25 megabits might be tough for a lot of the US outside major cities I guess, but throughout Europe speeds above that are pretty standard by now. Yeah that's pretty much what you need for netflix The bandwidth isn't going to be the issue with 1080p streaming
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Mar 21, 2019 16:58
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Stability is a much bigger problem than speed, movies and music can be buffered so even fairly large hiccups aren't noticeable. Games you can't buffer even a second of so any little spike in connectivity is going to show.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:58
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While 20mbs isn't that crazy of a connection in most areas, requiring 20-25mbs for a 1080p60 stream seems like their system isn't very well optimized and instead they're just throwing bandwidth at the problem to try and fix it. Not particularly encouraging. Grain of salt, but Microsoft was throwing around the number of 5mbs being their target range for requirements.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:58
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There's also the compound bandwidth issue in that most households are pooling their bandwidth, one person can't have all that data. Like I live with two roommates and a lot of the time at least one of us watching Netflix or whatever, while the other two might be gaming. Or at least its rare that all three of us try to stream video at the same time. But I'm just trying to imagine if all three of us were trying to use a service like this at once. Or even any combo of using Stadia + Netflix with all three active at once. Holy hell it would probably go straight to poo poo. At least right now gaming brings down a house's pooled consumption because gaming is so light on data compared to video streaming.
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Mar 21, 2019 17:10
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Anyone think that maybe that video of the guy playing with the horrendous lag is a staged demo gone wrong? I watched the Giant Bomb Stream of this stream about streaming and they mentioned how weird it looked switching between devices. I was wondering if this was like a pre-recorded video that they set up to make it look like a guy playing and told someone to gently caress around with the controller to look like he was playing. Judging by the comments from the GDC floor it sounds like it's possible that it really is this bad but I had this thought, that it's just a poorly executed demo of what will eventually be possible with Stadia. Edit: VVV Welp, 
explosivo fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Mar 21, 2019 |
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Mar 21, 2019 17:20
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Nah it's very real. There's no way Google would risk staging something like that with how many eyes were on them. It's very technically possible and it's not surprising that it was a little clunky. Here's Linus doing basically the same thing just not on stage with 400 people over his shoulder with cameras. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BQ4bXNdEQI&t=500s
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Mar 21, 2019 17:22
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Bardeh posted:What? 25 megabits might be tough for a lot of the US outside major cities I guess, but throughout Europe speeds above that are pretty standard by now. American McGay posted:While 20mbs isn't that crazy of a connection in most areas, requiring 20-25mbs for a 1080p60 stream seems like their system isn't very well optimized and instead they're just throwing bandwidth at the problem to try and fix it. Not particularly encouraging.
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Mar 21, 2019 18:56
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I'm pretty excited, though other platforms have failed. I know google can be fickle and just pull the rug out, but it seems like Gaming As A Service is the way forward (as much as I dislike removing the concept of physical ownership) and the promise of just picking up the nearest screen to play is good and cool.The Kins posted:Frankly, I'm just surprised Phil Harrison was able to find more work after tanking the launches of the PS3 and XB1. explosivo posted:Anyone think that maybe that video of the guy playing with the horrendous lag is a staged demo gone wrong? Img_FakedKinectTracking.gif
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Mar 21, 2019 19:31
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I have gigabit up/down in my small (~30,000 people) city in NY 
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Mar 21, 2019 19:37
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Pablo Nergigante posted:I have gigabit up/down in my small (~30,000 people) city in NY and you will probably have terrible latency with Stadia
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Mar 21, 2019 19:39
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I would seriously just rather stream my existing PC games to my Switch but Nintendo won't ever allow that They don't even want to have a web browser on the thing
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Mar 21, 2019 19:39
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Andrast posted:and you will probably have terrible latency with Stadia I'm never gonna use it so I don't care
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Mar 21, 2019 19:43
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I just don't want it to succeed because I sure as hell don't trust the big publishers and Google to not get greedy and mess with the settings in the background to get you to spend more money/time on their "game".
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Mar 21, 2019 20:28
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The 7th Guest posted:I would seriously just rather stream my existing PC games to my Switch but Nintendo won't ever allow that Because if they did the switch would get hacked quickly
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Mar 21, 2019 20:31
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RBX posted:Because if they did the switch would get hacked quickly How would a game stream affect switch hacking Edit: you obviously meant the browser my bad
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Mar 21, 2019 20:37
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:you do realise that it's sending video to you right? there isn't anything to optimise short of "do you want to play at 640x480?" or really lower the bitrate and make the game look atrocious. if we're being honest the bitrate isn't high enough for 4k60hdr but that didn't stop netflix from having no standards *extremely comic book guy voice* i must remind you that my extensive testing has shown conclusively that netflix is highly inferior to playing a criterion collection disc of the same movie on my home theater setup, therefore it is clear that video codecs can never be improved and this product is doomed to fail
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Mar 21, 2019 20:37
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RBX posted:Because if they did the switch would get hacked quickly But the switch is already hacked
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Mar 21, 2019 20:45
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Yeah but if it had a browser any switch can get hacked instead of having to never update it. Didn't netflix get throttled by ISPs and purposefully downgrade video quality to try please them?
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Mar 21, 2019 20:45
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RBX posted:Yeah but if it had a browser any switch can get hacked instead of having to never update it. the switch had a built in browser that was hidden at launch and they found a way to break into that and redirect it to other web pages that weren't "hotel internet is askigg you to login" within the first week.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:00
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RBX posted:Didn't netflix get throttled by ISPs and purposefully downgrade video quality to try please them? the phrase you are looking for is "peering agreement" and yes, big ISPs constantly spar with popular internet services over connection and traffic issues
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Mar 21, 2019 21:03
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Lutha Mahtin posted:*extremely comic book guy voice* i must remind you that my extensive testing has shown conclusively that netflix is highly inferior to playing a criterion collection disc of the same movie on my home theater setup, therefore it is clear that video codecs can never be improved and this product is doomed to fail
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Mar 21, 2019 21:17
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Lutha Mahtin posted:therefore it is clear that video codecs can never be improved and this product is doomed to fail Looking forward to paying for the 4k, UHD add-on to my yearly Strata sub. My buddy cheaped out so he's stuck on the 1 hr @ 1080P, Unlimited SD stream tier.
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Mar 21, 2019 21:50
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:ya but let's be real there's a difference for games where it'll be realtime encoding where latency and bandwidth matters and platform comparisons aren't going to be favourable I think the eventual 1 month free sub demo will show if Google has made it or not. Also Google was pretty much clear about having made peering agreements with some ISPs (they didn't tell whom however)
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Mar 21, 2019 22:44
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can someone let me know if there's an xboxpants-like in this thread
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Mar 22, 2019 02:58
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The Saddest Rhino posted:can someone let me know if there's an xboxpants-like in this thread sorry man, it's rendered on the cloud
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Mar 22, 2019 11:52
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The most interesting snippet from the Ars Technica interview was this one IMO:quote:Harrison expressed confidence that the levels of lag involved in a standard Stadia experience were compatible with even the twitchiest, most reflex-heavy kinds of games. He also let slip that "we have a couple of leading fighting games in development on our platform."
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Mar 22, 2019 13:11
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Uh oh Google is in danger! Competition is coming soon! From Walmart! https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2019/3/21/18276235/walmart-cloud-gaming-service-google-stadia-competitor By the way there's also Hatch by rovio already available if you want to test cloud gaming with mobile screen resolutions... https://playhatch.com/ limaCAT fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Mar 22, 2019 |
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Mar 22, 2019 13:21
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limaCAT posted:Uh oh Google is in danger! Competition is coming soon! From Walmart! Now that's the kind of wonderfully dumb idea that can only come from a fleet of MBA dipshits casting about for ways to justify their excessive salaries. Having the capital to build streaming infrastructure is pointless if you don't control the underlying platform, and that article makes it clear they're reliant on Microsoft's backend. If you're using Microsoft platforms to roll out a service that directly competes with Microsoft, Microsoft is gonna make sure you're never too successful.
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Mar 22, 2019 14:45
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